Power Group Discussion

[Lye]

What do you miss most about Power Groups?

What do you want to see form them if they return?

[Ashla]

I miss how power groups brought different players together under unified banners, offered up a kindred brand of player interactions, and, of course, PG Warz! :cool:

It would be neat to see currently NPC PG's come back as more than just behind the scenes stuff. Let's see the Crimson Hand, Gilded Lily, and Tarot come back, please? Seeing new PG's would be awesome too! Power Groups feel like a step into a bigger world ICly, and OOCly are great RP and storyline material. It feels like radical and awesome events take place when major power groups claim territory and influence across both the IC world and OOC playing board. It also expands the lore and even creates new regions, races, and epic tales in canon history! At least, that's how I see it.

I would love to see power groups come back full force. What would I want if they came back? Everything listed above.
#MakePowerGroupsGreatAgain #OverusedMemes.

[FennWenn]

I don't really miss them, mostly because they weren't doing too much by the time I joined Althy? Tarot and the Crimson Hand were... there! If we had more people, then they'd be a neat way to drive roleplay, get people connected with each other over shared goals (and maybe rivalries). But I'm not sure that we have the playerbase to sustain that kind of thing right now. What is the benefit of a powergroup if we don't have enough active writers to really run multiple opposing/competing factions and all the delicious intrigue that comes with that? If one wants a group, then they can develop an IC organization and play around with that!

...sorry if that seems harsh. ^^'

[Black Shadow]

The thing I noticed with being a part of the power groups, specifically the IK, is that there were missions boards, things that were there for people to do, things that people COULD do ,but rarely were these quests actually done. And there were some good quest ideas out there for the IK, but no one took them up. Gavner started one, he's actually still writing it I believe and will finish it eventually, but there was no body actually doing it. The power groups did not seem to have too much of an incentive to be a part of, no real extras except access to group specific things (like the IKs vault of items we could rent for a thread). That said I want the Pos to come back because I miss them and they were fun to do the wars, but other than the wars the Pos were pretty much dead.

[Amber Eyes]

Power groups were a lot more fun before they became so micro-managed. I could care less about an HQ or rewards or what-not. What made PGs fun for me (and this was before it was technically called a PG) was writing with other people in a way that made sense. Often when you throw to characters together it is just for the sake of writing with someone else. With the IK, long before PGs were a controlled thing, we just had a ton of fun writing about life with a bunch of warriors in a castle. Once the administration got involved and it became a battle of who's stick was bigger they were ruined(this was a lot of people doing it, I promise I'm not calling out anyone in particular :) ). While I would love to see PGs come back in some capacity, I'd hate to see them turn into what they did towards the end of my last run here.

If I could go back and do one thing over during my last run, it would be convince Cal to not turn the IK into a formal PG.

[Max Dirks]

I'm not sure what you're referring to Amber Eyes. HQs have existed since the first iteration of PGs. I would know; I was the original moderator! There was a short time where we experimented with regional bonuses. This might have occurred when the IK was in its infancy, but I can't recall. In any event, I'm with FennWenn. If there is no incentive to join a PG, then why would anyone join a PG? If it were to write with others and give characters a reason to bond, then folks would already be doing it without a formal system.

That said, Lye. If PGs come back, they need to incentivize people to interact. In the past, Althanas was very battle heavy. Wars, along with a victor goes the spoils worked better back then. Now a days, folks largely prefer to quest. I'd look to combine the proposed regional perk or job system with the PG period I believe Amber Eyes is referring to and build from there.

My proposal is this. PG's must be registered. To register, PGs must have three people. The PG leader will then work with the moderator to come up with a balanced PG perk. If it is approved, the PG will be approved. PGs are capped at ten members. One account per PG. PG members get to use that perk. No attacks, only wars (meaning PG wars are all done with the advice and consent of their respective members). Competing in and/or winning Althanas content events (tournaments, guided quests, featured quests, etc.) gets all the members of the clan a small boost. No activity checks; limited moderation. I'll reopen the group function on the site for private chat. Groups can also be listed in the postbit so people can proudly display their clan name. That's what I'd like to see.

[Black Shadow]

Dirksy, I actually like that plan! not so much to the cap at 10, but that prevents people from mass joining one clan (like when the IK had 26 members...) and so I understand it!

[Philomel]

One account per PG.

Just checking what this means Mr Dirks. Is this that you can only have one of your accounts per PG? So, for instance, I could not have Stare and Phi in the same PG?

Thank you.

Sounds very reasonable, the rest of it.

[Lye]

This isn't to say we are or are not bringing back PGs. I want to know what you miss and what you'd like to have brought back if anything.

Overall, I'm seeing reasons that have nothing to do with rewards or incentives other than a common flag to fly between characters. No system is really needed for that. Just like I still write the CH with Amari and Shinsou has his Brotherhood of Castigars.

Dirks proposition adds a fun twist of regional bonuses. Which is fine. And the limiting members has to do with people who want to be in all the clubs and get all the club perks. That would be game breaking if left unchecked. So I'm not too keen on incentives since that was the primary reason so much conflict arose over the old system. How many months did players receive boosted rewards for having an HQ uncontested? How many free levels did that earn? It can be argued that they weren't "free" but earned, but the subject is touchy none the less.

So again, what would you want to see out of power groups? People miss them, but what could you do then that you cannot do now?

[Max Dirks]

Phi, it means Phi couldn't be in IK and CH, and therefore receive two perks. However, Phi could be in IK and Stare could be in CH, each receiving one perk.

[Max Dirks]

Dirksy, I actually like that plan! not so much to the cap at 10, but that prevents people from mass joining one clan (like when the IK had 26 members...) and so I understand it!Right. Sure we could allow unlimited members, but only allow 10 to receive the perk, but that makes things way too complicated for moderators.

[Philomel]

Ah okay Dirks, that makes a lot of sense.

And whether or not to bring back the Power Groups is up to you both I think. It seems popular, maybe a steady reintroduction? Bit by bit perhaps? So just the groundworks first, registering them, then setting up whatever subforums you think are necessary, then doing the incentives later, if there are any.

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

This isn't to say we are or are not bringing back PGs. I want to know what you miss and what you'd like to have brought back if anything.

Overall, I'm seeing reasons that have nothing to do with rewards or incentives other than a common flag to fly between characters. No system is really needed for that. Just like I still write the CH with Amari and Shinsou has his Brotherhood of Castigars.

Dirks proposition adds a fun twist of regional bonuses. Which is fine. And the limiting members has to do with people who want to be in all the clubs and get all the club perks. That would be game breaking if left unchecked. So I'm not too keen on incentives since that was the primary reason so much conflict arose over the old system. How many months did players receive boosted rewards for having an HQ uncontested? How many free levels did that earn? It can be argued that they weren't "free" but earned, but the subject is touchy none the less.

So again, what would you want to see out of power groups? People miss them, but what could you do then that you cannot do now?

You hit the nail on the head.

I would quite like to have an informal system, to be honest. Perhaps have a list of Althy recognized PG's that are "canon", maybe once in a while do a featured quest involving them when activity picks up. But for now, there is nothing stopping us carrying on the status quo. The Bro'hood of Bro's carries on regardless.

[Ashla]

I'm not too sure on the "10 members only" thing, but the rest of it sounds good. I've always liked the RP aspect more than awards, either way. Not sure ten members only would be a great idea; it could basically be like "Sorry, but you can't join because we already have max players." It seems a little unnecessary and maaaaybe uncool?

I like everything else though.

[Garron]

PG's returning under the discussion to this point... yes. If we can balance everything out, then, hell yes. I think the 10 member cap is quite generous. It keeps things fair between PG's, and it doesn't send the mods overseeing into a head spinning flurry.

[Black Shadow]

Also, by having the max at 10, it allows each clan to be fairly balanced on people. In the past we had clan wars that had one clan with like 20 people for the war where the other side was forced to have mercenaries to evenly match the sides in the fight. 10 people would mean 10 people, and therefore no need for added mercenaries to even things out.

[Zack Blaze]

I'd be fine with PGs having a member cap on perks, but telling someone "Sorry, but you came too little too late" seems a bit mean. Regional bonuses seem like a good idea as well, or PG specific awards, but not super magic items of doom like we used to have with the IK.

[Black Shadow]

How about the 10 most active get the rewards for the month. sorta like the "post here to keep the HQ" thread that happened monthly, members who have not been active in threads that month don't get that month's rewards? Those who are active, and more active at that, get the rewards. If theres 15 people in a clan, 12 of them are active in a thread, 2 of them are only in one thread while the others are in 2+, they 10 most active get in on that month's rewards?

[Chelley]

Personally, I don't particular miss PGs. All PG interactions I've had have left a bad taste for me. Whether it was just the PG fizzling out or other stuff, PGs have never been good for me.

That aside, I can't agree to a member cap, for similar reasons already stated. It becomes exclusionary and that's not a good front to put up when recruiting new people. I can, however, see a member cap for wars. Limiting the number of people that can sign up to a participate in a war will eliminate the problem Black Shadow mentioned about winding up with uneven teams. Let there be as many people involved in a PG as the PG wants to allow, but when it comes to wars, the PG essentially forms a "war team" of up to X many members of the PG. How it's decided who's on the war team would be up to the PG members to figure out, of course.

[Ashla]

Totally agree with Sei, Shadow, and Chelley.

Another idea is that instead of a perk cap, PG admins can give a monthly perk to the member that contributed the most. It would be just as much as a perk as a reward. Different categories for separate "not-free-perks/ earned awards" could be given to different players too. Like... The person who completed the most PG quests get an EXP Booster for a single thread of choice. A helpful moderator gets a cool new IC item (not overpowered.) Something like that?

[Lye]

I think perks are something that should be discussed at a later date once we can see that PGs alone are viable. So, given the limited conversation here, this is what I am going to pitch to you, the members. Use the RolePlayer's Corner to post your Power Group, Clan, or Guild recruitment/info threads. Do your recruitment, discussions, etc there. Treat it just like the PGs you used to have. If after a few months we can see that power groups are seeing some improvement in activity worth further investment, we can start to discuss making them more interesting.

Is anyone opposed to that?

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

I'm not too sure on the "10 members only" thing, but the rest of it sounds good. I've always liked the RP aspect more than awards, either way. Not sure ten members only would be a great idea; it could basically be like "Sorry, but you can't join because we already have max players." It seems a little unnecessary and maaaaybe uncool?

I like everything else though.


I'd be fine with PGs having a member cap on perks, but telling someone "Sorry, but you came too little too late" seems a bit mean. Regional bonuses seem like a good idea as well, or PG specific awards, but not super magic items of doom like we used to have with the IK.

This.

[Max Dirks]

Perhaps I should have been more clear. Under my proposal, PGs are not capped at 10 members. They are capped at 10 perks to be distributed to whatever members the leader wants.

Shadow, I hope you respect how annoying it was to audit PG activity. I will never advocate for that again.

[Black Shadow]

I get that, I did not really care too much for that being the way Pos keep their HQs either, just a suggestion as to how the 10 are decided, but I completely understand how annoying it is! :)

[Nosdyn]

Just my thoughts.

I've been on sites where groups function in a pretty similar way. You have a leader, some sort of chain of command, and a limited amount of members. The site I'm thinking about is actually the ADBZ site I used to rp on. Some inspiration could be taken from such systems. I feel like this could work really well for Althanas. So basically do it like this: Leader/Chain of Command, then X amount of loyal members. I am okay with limiting the number of people who can join a PG. I'm fine by that. What I'm suggesting to is make a regular chain of command type of idea. That ways, if whatever PG system is currently in works comes into fruition, then you can have it function in some similar way to that.

I'm pretty flexible about the chain of command idea. I think that it could work like this as well: one leader, and one or two chain of command people to follow the leader sort of deal. There's a lot of potential here for that. A guild structure should be flexible but definitely have a sort of theme they are built around. Themes/goals/etc. I'll chime in as I come up with more ideas, but hopefully my suggestions are useful to you guys!

~Pav