Suppose it should go here... (The War) [Archive]

Ranger

02-29-08, 05:21 PM

Alright, I may be the only one, but I'm extremely opposed to this clan war that's suddenly sprung up. I know I'm going to get hell for this, but here we go:

First and foremost, the clan of the NWO seems to be nothing more than a bunch of angry moderators that decided through AIM to make some quick clan and go after Dirks. There is no background basis for the group, nothing IC'ly that creates it...

Now, they decided to go after Imperial from what I can assume is due to the fact that one of Dirks' alter-ego characters started it, Xalstad. He's not even part of it anymore... so what's happening now is that this baseless clan has added another actual pg, The Company, to their roster to fight. Taking on Imperial, another actual pg, means that the Red Hand as allies has to stand with them, another real and long standing PG.

So, I've been trying to figure out the IC basis behind the war against the Imperial, and got "Lucien hired Godhand to kill Dirks"... he's not even in the PG. If that's the only basis, do it in the citadel and leave the clans that are active out of it.

Personally, and this I know I'm not the only one thinking, if the NWO wins and destroys two REAL pg's, I'm through. I've been an active contributing member to at least 2 pg's at a time for 5 years. And then it's suddenly allowed for a small group of mods, allowed by the most perfect example of bias I've ever seen, to overthrow two of the few stable and thriving clans... I'm done.

The Writing Writer

02-29-08, 06:39 PM

Not to mention the vast amount of high level characters, with more writing experience in the NWO, compared to the many, considerably lower level characters in Imperial.

Soon as I saw all this happening my first thought was that (since there was no IC explanation) Godhand decided to do this because " I am teh uber 1337 skillz. We pwn joo. "

This is why I crinkled my nose when the announcement to get rid of paying to have a clan war was made. As soon as the statement was made I thought to myself that a bunch of high level characters are gonna get together, found an ill thought out PG and lay waste to everything the other PG's have worked towards.

Lucien

02-29-08, 06:51 PM

God dammit. Sine Nomine hiring Godhand to kill Dirks does not relate to this war.

And NWO was in formulation for months, or so Godhand said to me a day before he went through with it.

NWO's goal is not to go after Imperial. NWO plans on shaking things up because, as it was, none of the PGs were really doing anything.

So, these are facts. Enjoy the truth.

EDIT: Hell, let me add a few more.

Imperial was stagnant for quite some time. It was not thriving.

Godhand and Dissinger are not mods. Only Call Me J is, and from what Godhand tells me, he planned this before Slayer was a mod.

Sighter Tnailog

02-29-08, 07:14 PM

Let me also give some background for this.

I was in the middle of reorganizing Clan Rules, revising Clan Warfare, and generally lowering the basic stakes for Clan Activity. I've been worried for some time that the high levels of GP required for any real Clan Activity, such as waging war and the like, was a detriment to actually getting PGs off the ground. I had been speaking to a number of people with this via AIM.

I was doing this work; I had revised Clan War launching rules and was getting ready to revise the basic fighting rules. When I saw NWO's post, I went to judge it. I looked at it and thought, "This is bare bones. But at the same time, it sort of makes sense; Godhand is just the type of character whose base might be "in a pub somewhere." So I approved it.

Within minutes of my approval, the attack had begun. I was left with a real mess; I had to get Clan Hostility rules up quickly, bypassing the usual mod discussions and consensus that go with rule rewrites. And at the same time, I had to begin the process of discussing with attackers and defenders what they wanted to fight for, how the defenders would choose to set up the match, and everything else that goes with this sort of thing.

When this started, only two of the three original participants in NWO were moderators; one had been made a moderator very recently. I had recently put money into The Company, seeing in them a chance to make some gold and also intuiting that the changes in Findelfin's direction would soon put him in a position to be more than a mere stakeholder in the endeavor.

And so when I got on the other day to find that The Company had joined the fight, I was forced to reassess my position as moderator. I now had an economic interest in the victory of the New World Order/The Company alliance, and so I was forced to hurriedly find some moderators to assist me and do the work. Christoph, Zeph, and Zook were found, as three moderators with absolutely no part in this.

But The Company's entry into the war seems fair to me. While I still wonder at the IC justification for the war from NWO's perspective, the IC justification of The Company -- to make money -- seems much better than some of the justifications I've seen on the quorum call. Alternate accounts that haven't been played in years suddenly reappearing to make some quick gold comes to mind (CORY), or people whose only justification appears to be an OOC dislike of the OOC reasons NWO had for the war. So say what you will about New World Order; I won't really defend them other than saying that the "mod conspiracy" theory doesn't really hold water. But The Company's reasons seem fair to me, and they are the reason I dropped the moderation of the war, gave the reins to a neutral party, and joined it myself.

Also, let's not forget that Manda's in there for Imperial. And Letho! If this were mods trying to hammer Imperial to the ground, I can tell you: I'd have picked up those two first.

I also have on good authority that Dirks has been casting wide nets trying to get people for this war. Remember LeopoldStevens? He sent me a conversation today in which Dirks was trying to recruit him. So I wouldn't act as though it's only NWO who's running an AIM campaign to get more players, IC justification be damned.

Godhand

02-29-08, 07:52 PM

And then it's suddenly allowed for a small group of mods, allowed by the most perfect example of bias I've ever seen, to overthrow two of the few stable and thriving clans... I'm done.

A bloo bloo bloo!

Oh, a bloo bloo bloo!

Sighter Tnailog

02-29-08, 08:01 PM

Geez, Godhand, you know you're not helping?

Let me add, though, that the Red Hand won't be destroyed or lose anything if Imperial loses. So I wouldn't say quite yet that NWO/TC is destroying two of the few stable, thriving clans. And if Imperial loses -- something looking less and less likely now, and I'm beginning to worry about my investment -- it won't be thrown out or gotten rid of, and may even keep part of its treasury if NWO's victory is just by a hair.

Furthermore, in the Purifers/Ice Reavers Clan War of yesteryear, both losers AND winners got HQs in honor of both their efforts to make good activity in the PGs. So my suggestion is to go about this with a good, sportsmanlike attitude, and maybe Imperial could come out of this stronger than ever, even IF they lose the war.

Slayer of the Rot

02-29-08, 08:50 PM

You're creating conspiracy theories, Ranger. Don't be so paranoid.

Sine Nomine's hiring of Godhand as a mercenary has nothing to do with Dirks or Imperial. In fact, I had essentially been hired as a mercenary before, but chose to take a position in the group myself. I recently left for my own reasons. Cory just wanted a bruiser for when his clan should happen to go a war, and Godhand sure as hell fits that position...

Now, the IC justifications, for the formation and the attack. The formation can be explained very easily; Godhand Striker has known Dan Lagh'ratham for years, both love to drink. Godhand decides one day in, the bar that becomes their base, that he wants to kick somebody's ass. Of course Dan loves the idea. Dan knows Jame Whitizard from when he killed him in the Pagoda, and he has been keeping an eye on him since then when he recognized potential in the young man. Dan contacts Jame through Kross's identity, and he and Godhand convince him to join, made easier since he was originally a brash, swaggering young man. Let's say he thought it great to be associated with two of the hardest hitters of the land.

For the attack, let's bring up a scenario. You get arrested and thrown into prison. You're a new face, an unknown name, and to coast through your uncomfortable stay, you decide to find one of the biggest guys locked up and beat the shit out of him. This way, everyone knows not to mess with you. I'm sure anyone that understands the characters can see Dan and Godhand's thinking in that reason. Simply put, as a new clan, NWO decides to attack Imperial to establish themselves.

Additionally, that I'm a moderator has nothing to do with this IC war. I am participating as a player, am I not? If you still have problems, work them out on the battlefield.

Ashiakin

02-29-08, 08:55 PM

Number of mods and former mods fighting for Imperial: 8
Number of mods and former mods fight for the NWO: 9

Anyhow, in the interest of full disclosure, I will relate why my character is participating in the war. Sighter alerted me to the existence of The Company the other day. I looked it over and saw it was being run by Rayse and Bloodrose, two people whose work I had been impressed with in Salvar, the region I write for. I decided to become a shareholder because it's the sort of venture that suits Ashiakin and because I wanted to give him something to do after the FQ (I envision him becoming a full member of The Company eventually.)

I frankly did not know what the NWO was until I was pointed toward the quorum call because The Company had decided to fight with them against Imperial. Since Ashiakin is a shareholder in The Company--and The Company has been promised Imperial's treasury if the war succeeds--Ashiakin stands to profit from the war. That is why he's fighting and that is why I'm participating.

Call me J

02-29-08, 09:13 PM

First and foremost, the clan of the NWO seems to be nothing more than a bunch of angry moderators that decided through AIM to make some quick clan and go after Dirks. There is no background basis for the group, nothing IC'ly that creates it...

As others have already pointed out, Godhand and I had plans to make the NWO for a while.

Now, they decided to go after Imperial from what I can assume is due to the fact that one of Dirks' alter-ego characters started it, Xalstad. He's not even part of it anymore... so what's happening now is that this baseless clan has added another actual pg, The Company, to their roster to fight. Taking on Imperial, another actual pg, means that the Red Hand as allies has to stand with them, another real and long standing PG.

Godhand and myself are both shareholders in The Company, hence it made sense for us to get them involved.

So, I've been trying to figure out the IC basis behind the war against the Imperial, and got "Lucien hired Godhand to kill Dirks"... he's not even in the PG. If that's the only basis, do it in the citadel and leave the clans that are active out of it.

If you're starting a PG based almost exclusively on being better than others, wouldn't you want to go after the top dogs? Since Althanas' top dogs are Imperial, we wanted to show our stuff against them. If anything, I fail to see how this is any less justified than the Grey Braves/Malice war.

Personally, and this I know I'm not the only one thinking, if the NWO wins and destroys two REAL pg's, I'm through. I've been an active contributing member to at least 2 pg's at a time for 5 years. And then it's suddenly allowed for a small group of mods, allowed by the most perfect example of bias I've ever seen, to overthrow two of the few stable and thriving clans... I'm done.

Geist Fox's registration contains roughly the same amount of detail as the NWO's does. Is that bias as well? Additionally, I fail to see how clans have been "overthrown" as a result of this. If anything, this clan war has raised awareness of what PGs can do on Althanas.

Lastly, I hardly see how the NWO is not a "real PG." Heck, NWO members do more to identify themselves as part of their clan than most other clans have done. In the time I've been here, only the BB and the NWO have included their PG name as part of their avatars.

Bloodrose

02-29-08, 10:04 PM

I'm going to start by saying that if anyone has reservations about this war, and feel it is being fought for purely OOC reasons, maybe they should do the situation a favor and not participate. If the Gol'Bron wants to participate because they're close friends with Imperial, that's fine. That's wonderful actually, because it's promoting IC PG activity. Instead of typecasting NWO as the only bad guys here, why don't we all scroll through the Imperial rollcall and count how many participants are members of neither Imperial or the Gol'Bron, and simply state that they were contracted by Dirks to fight.

At this rate we might as well tell all the active members of Althanas to flip a coin and jump in, because we certainly have enough people joining for OOC reasons of their own.

Way to exacerbate the situation.

Geist Fox, Cypher Nex, Vice, and NWO all share about the same level of IC justification for existing - if we're going by their PG approval threads in the RoG. Maybe, if we're going to debate the legitimacy of NWO because they started a war, we should also be discussing the legitimacy of Cypher Nex and Vice. You know, since it could be argued that they were created for the sole purpose of fighting the Conquest Trials.

I think that would be fair.

Tera

02-29-08, 11:28 PM

Ahem,

As the LEADER of Imperial.

I would like to say a few things for all this.

i have no issue with this war, I get to rp with a huge number of people I've wanted to rp with since i got to read them. Godhand, Slayer, Diss, the list goes on and they are all in this. granted the only players that are not here that i wish were here is the one that played Chelsi and Jessica (Valentina snow)

second, I did not suspect so many would side with imperial, as i haven't asked anyone other than those written on my PG's roster. which come to find out, the only ones to answer since then are Poseidon, Lexxum, Lasair, and TI. so I did not ask or purchase the skills of anyone for this.

So as far as I'm concerned, anything beyond that was ooc. If you don't want to fight because of that, then don't, I don't want people fighting a PG war because they are against the OOC portion of it. so **** off if thats the case. And yes this INCLUDES anyone in Imperial!

and if there is an alliance between the red hand and imperial, i have no idea and I'm the ****ing leader.

as for the ic reasons, if the NWO views us, Imperial, as the big bad mother****ers on the cell block, then I am truly honored and for that, that really makes Tera's already vile ego just bloat so much more.

so to all that want to b*tch about this, i do say this as the leader of Imperial...

ROCK ON NEW WORLD ORDER!!!!

Sighter Tnailog

02-29-08, 11:36 PM

That's the spirit, Tera.

That's what I'm saying. This is going to be a real Clan War, the likes of which we haven't seen in a long time. It actually has a better justification, in my estimation, than the very first Clan War on Althanas. And I was the leader of the clan that launched that war!

Seriously. I think both sides are evenly matched, and we're going to have a great time on both sides fighting for honor, gold, experience, and good-old-fashioned Althanas activity.

So I say thanks to NWO for having the sexual organs to get this started, and a BIG thanks to Tera for showing the real spirit that we should fight this Clan War in.

Saxon

03-01-08, 12:11 AM

Taking on Imperial, another actual pg, means that the Red Hand as allies has to stand with them, another real and long standing PG.

Thats on you, man, not NWO. If your going to try and stand up and fight to defend Max, then your going to have to accept the real possibility that should you lose, you're next on their list when they decide whether or not to mop up the people who tried to save Dirks from a well deserved beating. Thats the cost of war, Ranger, and I think its a bit ridiculous to say that your PG is doomed if NWO manages to win and allegedly 'crush two different PGs in one war'.

YOU decided to get your feet wet in this, so don't go throwing around the "I quit!" card because you've finally realized that you might just drown and pull others down with you because of it. It's time to take some personal responsibility and the understanding with it that you pick and choose your allies and the whole 'protectorate' factor that comes with the package also has a 'fighting' clause in it.

Who would've thought that when dealing with guilds or factions you'd actually have to get your hands dirty, huh? :rolleyes:

Max Dirks

03-01-08, 12:13 AM

I was in the middle of reorganizing Clan Rules, revising Clan Warfare, and generally lowering the basic stakes for Clan Activity. I've been worried for some time that the high levels of GP required for any real Clan Activity, such as waging war and the like, was a detriment to actually getting PGs off the ground. I had been speaking to a number of people with this via AIM.I'm not opposed to the war, but Ranger has a point. Findelfin's final statement sums my concerns. The justification for the war does not bother me (its comparison to the Malice/Gray Braves war is sound), but what does is the convenient timing of ALL the events that transpired in its conception.
Thats on you, man, not NWO. If your going to try and stand up and fight to defend Max, then your going to have to accept the real possibility that should you lose, you're next on their list when they decide whether or not to mop up the people who tried to save Dirks from a well deserved beating.Well deserved beating, Saxon? This attitude doesn't stem from your reason for leaving Imperial, does it? If it does, I think you've strengthened Ranger's point about this being a war solely conceived and executed with the sole purpose of getting at me.

Sighter Tnailog

03-01-08, 12:15 AM

And you can cite the weird timing all you want, but I got nearly as much a headache from it as you did. And Dirks, you advocated many times in discussions with me personally and on the mod forum against having lots of money required for launching Clan Wars. It really sucks that when I finally admit your position was correct and take steps to fix it, I'm accused of rigging the deck.

Slayer of the Rot

03-01-08, 12:30 AM

I'm not opposed to the war, but Ranger has a point. Findelfin's statement alone sums my concerns. The justification for the war does not bother me (its comparison to the Malice/Gray Braves war is sound), but what does is the convenient timing of ALL the events that transpired in its conception.

It was coincidence and nothing else.

Well deserved beating, Saxon? This attitude doesn't stem from your reason for leaving Imperial, does it? If it does, I think you've proved Ranger's point about this being a war solely conceived and executed with the sole purpose of getting at me.

The war was solely conceived and executed because ICly Imperial had things the NWO would have liked to get it's hands on. Stop painting us in black top hats and monocles, twisting our mustaches and going "Nnnyeeeeah! Let us get Dirks! We can tie him to the railroad tracks!"

There is no ulterior motive. All that is wanted is a good war.

Melancor

03-01-08, 12:31 AM

So, not to break the little celebration here I am just going to share my thoughts as one of the leaders of Imperial.

The mobilization of the NWO against Imperial came to be out of the blue. Rising threatening with personalities with very high power levels gravely worried me, since honestly I can't really compare to many of the people in the NWO. But seeing that the NWO is getting what they bargained for and not only fighting the three imperials then I guess I can't complain that much now.

Even though many people have already gave an answer I see the reasons of the NWO hollow. I just think that this whole thing is getting somewhat ugly. As Imperial had started to advance when Tera became the mother, and, for me this war got in the way.

Obviously the only reason this is fair now is because apparently we have began to outrun their numbers, from originally 3 to 9+. But that is all Dirks hand and the support the is giving a PG that he has probably unattached himself from. If it had been another PG (obviously) it would not seem that fair at all. Probably the reason the NWO sees Imperial as the "top dog", and not other PG's that could actually be more active than Imperial is probably because we fall under Dirks.

It's going to be the first thing like this I'll be in, I can say that to be surrounded by such powerful people scares me, but I guess I'll just have to use my best judgement and try not to get in the way, from wich I feel alientaed from, since it has been overpowered since it's birth...

I am against their rather bold declaration of war, but since we are getting enough backup now I can no more say this is actually unfair.

Slayer of the Rot

03-01-08, 12:34 AM

Probably the reason the NWO sees Imperial as the "top dog", and not other PG's that could actually be more active than Imperial is probably because we fall under Dirks.

No, it's not.

Melancor

03-01-08, 12:37 AM

The war was solely conceived and executed because ICly Imperial had things the NWO would have liked to get it's hands on.

We don't even have that much do we?

Slayer of the Rot

03-01-08, 12:39 AM

You've got something of an HQ, don't you? Back in my days, this was how you got an HQ. You started a war, you won a war. Just like the Red Hand/Bandit Brotherhood/Bazaar conflict.

Max Dirks

03-01-08, 12:43 AM

We don't even have that much do we?I'm pretty sure they were under the impression that the Dirks' manor was a clan asset that could be acquired, Poseidon. Otherwise, they never would have taken on the Company's services on a contingency. If that weren't true, then they truly would have nothing to gain, and Ranger's arguments would be true.

Melancor

03-01-08, 12:49 AM

You've got something of an HQ, don't you? Back in my days, this was how you got an HQ. You started a war, you won a war. Just like the Red Hand/Bandit Brotherhood/Bazaar conflict.

Then Its not actually what Imperial has, but rather what you can gain from its defeat, I don't really see our buget that impresive, nothing to fight over atleast.

It seems rational that the NWO would attack the most powerful PG in the area, but I dont see how three active members, all of low levels, having a not-really-"HQ" and some lousy treasury makes us the top dog. Specially when I see that there are probably more capable and experienced writers on other PGs that are probably just slightly below of above us in activity. Then It's probably the cords that Dirks could pull to repel the NWO that made us a good selection. If SN had Dirks It would have been "the top dog".

That's how I see it anyways.

Godhand

03-01-08, 12:50 AM

Who says we're not going after Sine Nomine? Do you really think we're stopping with you?

Melancor

03-01-08, 12:53 AM

Who says we're not going after Sine Nomine?

We are not really questioning weather the NWO will attack the SN or not, since I see it will.

Max Dirks

03-01-08, 12:53 AM

Who says we're not going after Sine Nomine? Do you really think we're stopping with you?Yes. Go ahead, prove me wrong.

Godhand

03-01-08, 12:54 AM

Okay.

Edit: Damnit! I'm not allowed to attack two groups at once.

Edit 2: Wait, you had to have known that. Fuck you for playing silly games.

Sighter Tnailog

03-01-08, 01:20 AM

I wish we could all just fight this war without dramarama.

Hashi

03-01-08, 01:52 AM

After further discussion and thought I no longer have any interest in this war. None of my characters will be fighting and I'll be leaving the nWo. Though, one of you right admin types might want to make it so that you can unlist a PG from your profile.

Woshington

03-01-08, 02:00 AM

I had no idea this was all such srs bzns. I signed up for some fun representing the Company, that's all. And because the nWo was the greatest stable in the history of professional wrestling. 96-99. Black and white, brother, 4 life.

Sighter Tnailog

03-01-08, 02:00 AM

Try holding the ctrl key and then clicking the group, it should work.

Hashi

03-01-08, 02:07 AM

Thank you, Sighter.

Sighter Tnailog

03-01-08, 02:13 AM

No problem at all.

Skie and Avery

03-01-08, 02:22 AM

Dissinger

03-01-08, 05:18 AM

The only reason NWO is attacking Imperial first is because I'm in Imperial. It's like Troy all over again. I wish we could just get along and have EVERYONE worship me, but alas, it seems that's not so. *fans self*

[/ego indulgence]

See, this girl is smart, she speaks the truth.

As for why I'm in on it, in all honesty Godhand. Thats it nothing more. I respect Godhand, perhaps some of you feel this is horrendously out of character. But Seth and Godhand know of each other, each had power the other didn't and they understood each other for it. It was never a situation of out of the blue, they served time together in the Bandit Brotherhood, under Gild, then Damon. If Godhand wants to blast the holy hell out of an estate, which BTW Dirks has repeatedly been trying to get a specific storyline up with me, which would give Seth even MORE IC reason to bash his skull in, belonging to the man who rigged the Cell and later the Gisela, who am I to argue?

Personally I don't see why there hasn't been you know, doorbell ditching with flaming bags of dogshit on Dirk's porch before. The character Max Dirks has made enemies at every turn. Perhaps its only fair that a few of them gang up and go after him.

If anything, you'd think people would gang up to see the notorious crme lord Max Dirks get whats coming to him.

The Writing Writer

03-01-08, 07:24 AM

Why ya gotta break balls?

But in all seriousness, I'm just now learning of all this Dirks hate. I like Dirks. What's he done that's so awful?

<-- Genuinely curious

Arsène

03-01-08, 09:19 AM

Who says we're not going after Sine Nomine? Do you really think we're stopping with you?

How dare you? How dare you!?

I'll fucking kill you and every member of the NWO, I don't care which one of you is Hogan. Don't fuck with me, you shriveled up bastard.

Max Dirks

03-01-08, 09:44 AM

The character Max Dirks has made enemies at every turn. Perhaps its only fair that a few of them gang up and go after him.You seem to imply the war is NWO v. Dirks, not NWO v. Imperial. Just so you know, neither Dirks nor the manor will even be in the war.

Tera

03-01-08, 10:19 AM

yeah, i do have to say that the manor wont be in the battle.

but something far more disturbing will be. so yes...

now you can be afraid.

Cyrus the virus

03-01-08, 11:48 AM

Why ya gotta break balls?

But in all seriousness, I'm just now learning of all this Dirks hate. I like Dirks. What's he done that's so awful?

<-- Genuinely curious

Nobody hates Dirks.

And God forbid people have some fucking fun without somebody crying. It's a clan war, it's going to be hella fun, and whoever loses will be the subject of mockery until the eventual rematch.

Woshington

03-01-08, 12:43 PM

All of this, "there's nothing going on, you're crazy" is like all you know..

...thou doth protest too much...

It'll be fun whatever the reasons are. Let's just get on with it, the sooner the better. We'll all be dead one day anyway.

And also, I remember reading some post by somebody here, or maybe it was in a signature or something. It was some epic quote about how fantasy could be seen as something other than escapism because it's fundamentally based in reality in that it's written by somebody. Obviously. And the reader also brings their reality to the fantasy. The point I'm trying to make is that the IC and OOC are just as fundamentally linked. I only ever have my character do something IC if I think it's cool for whatever reason. If I want to do something that maybe doesn't make perfect sense IC, then the fun part is coming up with an elaborate and at least moderately logical way of explaining it.

Also, back to this butter wouldn't melt nonsense. Am I the only one to admit that in RP I've enjoyed pwning people I don't like or what?

Crystal Suncrest

03-01-08, 12:51 PM

Clans are groups of people who band together for a single purpose. If somebody dislikes what the clan stands for enough, it's only natural there will be a war.

This is a bit different from the norm, though. From the way it sounds, the NWO's purpose is to start clan wars, and to that, I'm opposed.

Ataraxis

03-01-08, 01:24 PM

To those who think NWO has no valid purpose for anything IC, I only say two things.

March 20th.

Call me J

03-01-08, 03:09 PM

Some of the comments here got me thinking. In particular, I was wondering why more interaction among PGs would, as Ranger put it so undramatically, kill off two "thriving" clans.

If anything, the profile of the PGs involved in the war has been raised as a result of our declaration of hostilities, so is the issue here that Imperial could potentially lose some GP a crippling enough blow to the PG to kill it? IMO, if that is the case, perhaps we should reconsider the rules about PG wars, and make them more positive sum competitions than zero sum competitions.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I was much more concerned with what the NWO stood to gain than what Imperial or anyone else stood to lose, so if the costs of losing wars were to decrease, it wouldn't have affected my zeal for declaring one.

Sighter Tnailog

03-01-08, 03:53 PM

If NWO has declared that they are attacking at the Dirks Manor, you'll have to find a good way to make sure they don't get there as the assault falls.

This war already smacks of rampant metagaming, why make it worse?

Max Dirks

03-01-08, 04:12 PM

If NWO has declared that they are attacking at the Dirks Manor, you'll have to find a good way to make sure they don't get there as the assault falls.I found the way:
Defenders are considered to have "home court advantage," though, and can design the battlefield in which they will fight their opponents.

Sighter Tnailog

03-01-08, 06:36 PM

I'm not contesting your right to design the battlefield. I'm just saying that if you're going to marshal troops on the ground that NWO lacks sufficient IC justification for their actions, it's extraordinarily hypocritical to abuse the rule without a decent IC justification. NWO has declared that its assault will fall on the Manor. If Tera designs a battlefield in which NWO is ambushed on their way to the Manor, that's one thing. But if it's just some sort of lava pit with meteorites raining down into it then I'd say it's ridiculous.

But even if it's something that ridiculous, I wouldn't oppose you doing it! It would just destroy any hope you have of decent Continuity scores, helping us in the end. So really, be my guest.

Tera

03-01-08, 11:50 PM

my my folks, I am insane, but not outside of reason.

believe me, this will be interesting enough, but stable for all involved.

Raelyse

03-02-08, 12:02 AM

I just wish we could bake a Clan War cake out of chocolate and rainbows and Miley Cyrus smiles.

Slayer of the Rot

03-02-08, 12:27 AM

How dare you? How dare you!?

I'll fucking kill you and every member of the NWO, I don't care which one of you is Hogan. Don't fuck with me, you shriveled up bastard.

Oh, please, Cory. Sine Nomine would be flattened very quickly by the NWO. And I am Hogan thank you. You just wouldn't know what to do when these 23 inch pythons wrap around you, brother.

yeah, i do have to say that the manor wont be in the battle.

but something far more disturbing will be. so yes...

now you can be afraid.

That's a shame. I had plans for the Manor.

I just wish we could bake a Clan War cake out of chocolate and rainbows and Miley Cyrus smiles.

Only if my penis can go in that smile.

Sighter Tnailog

03-02-08, 12:34 AM

Out of curiosity, what is the IC justification for the Red Hand/Gol'bron/Imperial alliance?

EDIT:

Defenders are considered to have "home court advantage," though, and can design the battlefield in which they will fight their opponents.

I would also add that "design" does not precisely mean "choose." If I was the defender of a castle under siege, I might have been present at the building of the castle, know its ins and outs, know where to set up ambushes and hiding points. But I can't magically whisk my attackers into a colossal naval engagement on the straights of Gibraltar. I have to face them where they are attacking me, or find a clever way to avoid the assault at my fortified location.

I can promise you that when this war is over, the rules will be modified to more appropriately reflect that, specifically to explain them to those who would seek to choke their spirit in their letters.

Caden Law

03-02-08, 02:13 AM

Out of curiosity, what is the IC justification for the Red Hand/Gol'bron/Imperial alliance?
Speaking as an unaffiliated outsider, that's my only :confused: with any of it (the War's start, more accurately). Perhaps the NWO could abuse Liquid Time at some point and have Godhand drunkenly declare something to the effect of WE'RE KNOCKIN' 'EM OVER 'N' STEALIN' THEIR WHORES! :D

Cyrus the virus

03-02-08, 04:56 PM

If I were in the NWO, I'd be Hall, and nobody would be allowed to contest it.

Godhand

03-02-08, 10:21 PM

But you're not, and I am, so go to Hell.

Hey yo.

Woshington

03-02-08, 11:28 PM

Nobody here is Scott Hall. Maybe Scott Norton. I'd be Big Poppa Pump, with the largest arms in the world.

But anyway..

2 much qq not enuff pew pew

Let's go.

Cyrus the virus

03-03-08, 07:49 AM

I gonna carve... you... up, chico.

Edward Judorne

03-03-08, 08:49 PM

Can a Merc that belongs to neither clan join the clan wars out of hate for one of the clans? Just curious. I still have yet to think up an IC reason for the hatred.

Godhand

03-03-08, 09:01 PM

I got no problem with this toolbox joining Imperial's side, if they'll have him.

Edward Judorne

03-03-08, 09:13 PM

I've almost got an in character reason formulated too. how's this?

Edward heard about the clan war that was going on and, with nothing better to do, decided to research what each clan stood for. After the research, he decided to join Imperial's side because he didn't like what the future would be like if NWO won.

Edit: crap. It looks like teams have already been made. would it be possible to join mid-battle? After all, in a lot of wars, people get involved that weren't originally meant to be involved.

Edit 2: If not, would it be possible for a group of mercenaries/assassins to get involved to take down one side or the other for reasons not directly related to the clan wars?

Edit 3: (Besides, I agree with Ranger on one thing. A world under the NWO's rule is not going to be a fun place to live in.)

Sorahn

03-03-08, 11:34 PM

In the time I've been here, only the BB and the NWO have included their PG name as part of their avatars.

Lies. The Red Hand included their symbol in their avatars ages ago. I would know, I was responsible for photoshopping most of them at the time.

and if there is an alliance between the red hand and imperial, i have no idea and I'm the ****ing leader.

That's because it happened before you were leader. Not my fault if no one told you.

Out of curiosity, what is the IC justification for the Red Hand/Gol'bron/Imperial alliance?

You want the honest truth? There isn't really one. Sorahn and Dirks have had encounters in the past and thus one wouldn't be difficult to make, but the threads have not been written. What actually happened was Dirks and I discussed it and decided that it would be mutually beneficial to be allies, meaning protecting one another. And since I am a man of my word, here we are.

First let me say that I wasn't aware that allies didn't stand to loose anything in wars. Logic told me otherwise. That changes things quite a bit from the RH's perspective.

I think what was bothering Ranger and also bothered me is that apparently the vast majority of Althanas doesn't realize that PG's do other things besides wars.

I love clan wars. I think they're great and a lot of fun. The only reason I even got in the Red Hand was because I fought as a merc in the bazaar war. Lo-and-behold, look at me now! But when you've invested your heart and soul into a clan to get it running and create backstory and get quests going, you tend to think twice before starting any wars that you think you might not win. This is why there's been "no clan activity", from me anyways.

And yes, I firmly believe that loosing a clan war and thus entirely depleting a clan's funds, eliminating their base of operations, and generally making them the subject of ridicule can in fact kill a clan.

That said, I look forward to this clan war, and I don't think that a loss will significantly damage the Gol'Bron, especially now that I hear that allies don't stand to loose anything from wars.

The point I'm trying to make is please don't reduce powergroups to nothing but armies, made purely for the purpose of conquest and wars. Last I checked the powergroup rules even said "the ultimate goal of a powergroup is a war." That's not true at all. The purpose of clans is to create IC groups in order to have fun and interesting quest opportunities that couldn't normally happen without the IC relationships within a clan. Like everything else on Althanas, it enhances your writing and your character. If they were just for wars, then we'd all just pick teams labeled "red", "blue", and "green" and go at it, team deathmatch style. The whole purpose for the name and the backstory and the requirements for membership, and the quests, and the missions is because there is more than just wars. So please keep that in mind.

And in the immortal words of Mills Lane... "Lets get it on!"

(*btw if Godhand says "a bloo bloo bloo" I swear I will invent a method for stabbing people in the face over the internet)

Godhand

03-03-08, 11:38 PM

You loved it.

Sighter Tnailog

03-03-08, 11:49 PM

The Writing Writer

03-04-08, 06:12 AM

Suppose a clan is very active, but the majority of it's members have no interest in battle and thus, no interest in begining a clan war? I.E., a clan full of questers who write long, elaborate story lines and avoid pick-up battles like the plague? Would they not be deserving of their monthly rewards simply because they do not wish to participate in a clan war?

Bloodrose

03-04-08, 09:28 AM

Let's not forget that clan wars don't HAVE to be battles. I was under the impression that clan wars could be of any format those involved decided upon? I believe one of the examples given was for a more merchant/peaceful oriented clan to organize a boycott of selling goods to a more war-like clan.

If you're player base is geared towards quests and not battles, then choose a clan war format more suited to your style. Organize a long, drawn out shadow war complete with political intrigue, back-stabbing, and all that other grocery store book aisle novel stuff...

Nowhere (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?t=5662) does it say both sides HAVE to gear up and beat the snot out of each other to fight a clan war.

The Writing Writer

03-04-08, 09:46 AM

Ah I see I see. I personal enjoy both battles and quests, so my question didn;t really pertain to me. It was just a hypothetical.

Cyrus the virus

03-04-08, 10:28 AM

Sorahn

03-04-08, 11:27 AM

You make a good point, Sorahn. There are a number of retoolings being considered for Clans, a number of which exist to minimize the effect of Clan War on a clan's finances, etc. But at the same time, Clan War is a really good way of determining which clans are active enough to warrant the receipt of those rewards which come monthly to a clan. I would love to hear any suggestions you have for Clans in Your Word or even in this thread. Honestly, Clans are around for the players to enjoy and appreciate, and if the way we have things set up now doesn't work for players' enjoyment and appreciation we need to have some concrete ideas we can put in place to change that mentality.

I really appreciate this. When I get a little time I'm gonna go through the current rules one more time and I'll probably put up a thread. I already know of a couple of suggestions I'd like to make, but I'll save them for a different thread.

As for rewards, the only clans that receive these rewards are clans that hold HQs, which currently are none. But for those that do.... I remember this being a big issue in the past. Clans that have HQs that are just sitting there with only a few members that are raking in the dough. Not sure if a viable solution was ever really figured out...

EDIT: I went through and read things again and it turns out nearly everything has changed since the last time that I read it. Everything that I originally had a problem with has been redone, so nothing comes to mind right now.