Level-up Ability Boosts

[Seralcard]

Okay, this is a fairly straightforward question. I would like to know what is considered to be acceptable as an increase in ability per character level. I would like to use this information to help plot the course I want my character to take, I am currently working on my second solo within a week of becoming a member, so this information may be quite important soon.

Also, the progress of my character in his abilities, as well as the items available to him, will play a very powerful roll in how he is written and the adventures he takes part in. I have viewed several player characters and it appears that the spread is... wide, to say the very least. I do not want to say it is unfairly so, these things are likely based on the quality of posts and the effort which is put into them, but the contrast between characters of the same level is striking. To the point where some lower level PCs seem more to be more than able to crush characters several levels above them, lol.

I haven't been through any pvp on this board, though I have been invited to such by several players. Honestly pvp is my absolute least favorite part of any rp, I prefer collaborative writing to competitive in the extreme, however the advantage of some characters over others is staggeringly clear.

If I place in the effort and the quality necessary I'd like to know that Seralcard can advance accordingly. I would also like to know what it takes to meet the standards of what is considered necessary.

[Skie and Avery]

I've never had a problem in leveling up two spells/skills to the next step, as well as a one-step gain in armor/weapons if they are meant to gain strength with time. Anything you buy in the bazaar is kept, and you can usually squeeze in an extra ability gain if it was earned in a quest and you link to it.

A Realm of Greeting mod could better answer this question, but this is just what I've found in my experience.

[Edward Judorne]

I'm not a mod, so I can't answer your main question, but I can address some of your concerns.

To begin with, the spread of strength in characters of the same level are wide because of many variables. I'll go through some of the main ones right now. Mods, please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these.

Variables
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Choice: I'm going to use Myself for this example. Edward Judorne was never meant to be a power character. He was meant to win fights with his skill and strategy, not his power. His power won't go up much when he levels because I decided that he would rather learn to control his techniques better than to make them hit harder.

Type of character: A wizard wouldn't strengthen his weapon skills, would he? No melee fighter would focus more on magic than on swordsmanship, would they?

Learning curve: Is your character a slow learner or a fast one? Does your character want to learn more techniques or focus on mastering the ones they have?

Mods: what one mod may approve, another may see as overpowered.
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As for PvP, think of it as working cooperatively to make a good battle thread.

[Tsukiko]

Edward's really on the money. It's mostly choice of the players that's the reason for disparity of power. Some characters are simply powerhouses that are made to kick ass and others are made to be weaker. To me I prefer weaker characters and there's nothing wrong with the powerful ones but having a weaker character makes it easier to build suspense and it's also easier to RP with lower levels and have them contribute. For my character I want something in between the powerhouse and the weaker character.

As for the question that yes if you put effort into your quests you will gain power accordingly. While your score won't influence the RoG mods but high scoring threads will net more money, better spoils and better exp so you will level faster.

I kinda agree with you on PVP and really don't battle much. I do say that a battle can be fun with a friend that you both respect each other's writing. It feels like a friendly chess match where the competition is there but there's a bit of a co-op involved since you want to see your partner do his/her best and vice versa. A good battle between friends can be quite fun to write just a massive action scene.

[Kially Gaith]

A character with many strengths often has more weaknesses.

Take my little angel for example.

He has some of the most leniant and kickass abilities a level 0 could ask for, but only in how many uses they have.

Wind Blade Edge - This allows Kially to added a bladed edge to any thinnish item, or an extra thump to thicker bludgeoning items permanently in hand, and for 10 seconds after they leave the charged area. This doesn't sound like much...But then you take the advantage of tiny wind bursts. Now combine the abilities.
Kneel down, charge some sand or leaves, then blast a burst of wind into them, sending them at your opponent - Can you say ow?

Granted though, with such a strength, Kially has many many weaknesses. Although he may have 2x normal speed, He has -2x Defence (Due to his size and age.), no human tolerance to poisons due to his weight, no real phsyical strength, denying him the ability to lift/break, and no armour or weapons. This is just a few of his far to many weaknesses.
(I also refuse to PVP for the sake of how cheap I could get - A sharpened hand edge to the neck would end a battle in one, his innocence would have the majoroity of the realistic Althanas population go "What the hell? I'm not fighting this." and a good % of the rest wouldn't take him serious until it's too late. The others are just malicious B/Tards who crush bunny rabbits and steal candy from babies. (Read:Witchblade - You know we love ya. ^_~)

[Bloodrose]

I don't think it's fair to say that the discrepencies between what one mod will approve vs another mod denying is a big factor in the power variances between characters of the same level. That would essentially be saying that the easiest way to super-power your character would be to keep requesting whichever mod you saw as "easy". The RoG staff do a pretty good job of maintaining consistency.

That said, choice is by far the largest influencing factor in the variations between characters. How a character advances and what powers they develop (or don't develop for that matter) are up to the character's creator, and nothing says you have to be a 2-ton lifting, soul killing, bone shattering, master or all weapons battle tank by the time you are level 6 or 7. If your character is a predominantly a fighter, then it stands to reason that he'd develop into quite the bruiser at higher levels. But if your character is say...a pacifist business man, then the "power" difference between the two characters at the same level is going to be huge.

It's all in how you expect/want to be able to play your character.

[Cyrus the virus]

A lack of power in a high level character is purely the writer's choice. Characters like Luc Kraus and Dan (Slayer of the Rot) are the types who are really at the brim of what's acceptable for their levels.

Anyhow, your level updates will rely purely on how many you have, how powerful they are together. The number of updates isn't anywhere near as important as what each one does individually. For example, you could probably bump up swordsmanship to 'Master' or something similar at level 1, if you have no other upgrades at all. Otherwise that skill would go up slower.

At level 1 you should be able to get some basic stuff, like two new abilities and two upgrades, or something. What's acceptable doesn't double every level, but it definitely increases, which is why us level 8's, 9's, 10's, et cetera tend to get so many updates at level up. They're also generally more powerful than lower-level abilities when they first show up.

[Zook Murnig]

What Manda forgot to mention in her response is that several of her characters are actually vastly underpowered. Especially her main account, Skie and Avery. It's been said that she has the weakest level 6 characters Althanas has ever seen.

For my part, I have worked in RoG and I can answer your question somewhat. At the most basic, you're allowed to upgrade a small number of your abilities and add one or two more abilities. However, if you forgo upgrades to your current abilities, you'll be allowed more or stronger new ones. At the other end of the scale, if you add no new abilities or only a weak one, you'll be allowed to upgrade more of your current abilities and to a greater degree. It's all a balancing act. If you talk with an RoG mod about specific plans, they can help you plan out your character's growth.

[Edward Judorne]

I don't think it's fair to say that the discrepencies between what one mod will approve vs another mod denying is a big factor in the power variances between characters of the same level.


a few notes.

1: I never said it was a big factor. just that it was a factor.

2: while the realm of greeting staff maintain consistancy for the most part, difference in opinion has been known to show every once in a while.

3:
That would essentially be saying that the easiest way to super-power your character would be to keep requesting whichever mod you saw as "easy". The RoG staff do a pretty good job of maintaining consistency. Not that simple. one mod may think technique A is overpowered while another may think technique B is overpowered. One mod may think that Technicque C is overpowered but the number of times the technique can be used is ok where it is, while another may think that Technique C is a good strength for your level but it has too many uses.

[Seralcard]

Thanks for all the helpful replies guys, I especially like this excerpt from Bloodrose:


"...nothing says you have to be a 2-ton lifting, soul killing, bone shattering, master or all weapons battle tank by the time you are level 6 or 7."

Heh heh, I know what you mean exactly and I'd rather not be.

So now I have a pretty good grasp of what is expected of me for the improvement path I intend to take. I hope to write many enjoyable, quality threads that map the progress of my character well :)

[A Nony Mouse]

Good, especially since you have him all planned out up until, oh lvl 10 already? Hahaha, I look forward to reading your quests.

[Bloodrose]

1: I never said it was a big factor. just that it was a factor.

The act alone of including moderator discretion in a discussion about how overpowered some characters seem in comparisons to others implies more than what was actually said. It implies that you believe moderator discretion is varient enough to result in the vast power differences between same-levelled characters. It implies that mods might rubber-stamp the abilities of one character while simultaneously grilling the profile of a similar character. You may have added moderator discretion as an afterthought, but the implications of its inclusion make it a big factor.


Not that simple. one mod may think technique A is overpowered while another may think technique B is overpowered. One mod may think that Technicque C is overpowered but the number of times the technique can be used is ok where it is, while another may think that Technique C is a good strength for your level but it has too many uses.

Fair enough, but your argument doesn't really negate my point. What you've done is given a perfect example of why its a good thing to have multiple people working the RoG. Not only do multiple mods keep the work load down, but their varying opinions on what is overpowered and what is not help to balance and offset each other - yielding a more balanced player base as a whole.

On my point, however, it would be that easy. If my only goal was to power up my character as fast as possible, and I know for sure that Mod A is more lenient that Mod B, then what would prevent me from simply pushing the envelope with my character at each level up and requesting Mod A? I would essentially be giving myself an advantage by always deferring to the "easy" mod, whereas other characters might get toned down by Mod B.

It's important to note, though, that this doesn't really happen on Althanas. It's just an example, and thanks to our balanced, consistent RoG staff, we don't have to worry about a character overpowering himself/herself by tracking down a lenient moderator. I use the term consistent to emphasize that the system as a whole turns out fairly balanced characters, not that the opinions of the moderators themselves have to be consistent.

[Edward Judorne]

The act alone of including moderator discretion in a discussion about how overpowered some characters seem in comparisons to others implies more than what was actually said. It implies that you believe moderator discretion is varient enough to result in the vast power differences between same-levelled characters. It implies that mods might rubber-stamp the abilities of one character while simultaneously grilling the profile of a similar character. You may have added moderator discretion as an afterthought, but the implications of its inclusion make it a big factor.


If that's what you thought, than I'm sorry I mislead you, but I have seen some characters approved at level 0 while others are not approved and have to change a technique that is pretty much the same as a technique the one that got approved had. The only variable in there was the Mods sometimes, so you can't say that factor is not there, and any factor that is there is worth mentioning, I think. Now, if I were to mention it FIRST, that would have implied that it was a big factor, but I put it last for a reason. To exclude it would have implied it was not a factor, or at least that it wasn't a factor I've noticed..



Fair enough, but your argument doesn't really negate my point. What you've done is given a perfect example of why its a good thing to have multiple people working the RoG. Not only do multiple mods keep the work load down, but their varying opinions on what is overpowered and what is not help to balance and offset each other - yielding a more balanced player base as a whole.

Maybe I just didn't explain it well enough.


On my point, however, it would be that easy. If my only goal was to power up my character as fast as possible, and I know for sure that Mod A is more lenient that Mod B, then what would prevent me from simply pushing the envelope with my character at each level up and requesting Mod A? I would essentially be giving myself an advantage by always deferring to the "easy" mod, whereas other characters might get toned down by Mod B.

I'll restate my point. Let's say you want three new techniques at level up. Mod A thinks 3 is too many and will force you to choose one. Mod B thinks all three are too overpowered. Mod C thinks that 2 of them are overpowered and the third needs less uses. Mod D thinks that all of them should be kept down to one use only. Mod E thinks you can keep all three, but you can never use them against PC's, they need to be kept down to 2 uses each, AND the power needs to be lowered on them a bit.

There are no mods there that see no problems with the moves and no mod is any more or less leniant. the only difference is what the mods see wrong with the moves.

Mod A may approve a technique mod B doesn't while Mod B may approve a technique Mod A doesn't.

My point was, the mods do have varying opinions on what is and isn't allowed, but no mod is going to just let you carry a chaingun around for example. (Can't believe I brought that up.)


It's important to note, though, that this doesn't really happen on Althanas. It's just an example, and thanks to our balanced, consistent RoG staff, we don't have to worry about a character overpowering himself/herself by tracking down a lenient moderator. I use the term consistent to emphasize that the system as a whole turns out fairly balanced characters, not that the opinions of the moderators themselves have to be consistent. Thank god.

Made quite a few edits here. once I accidentally added the edit to your quote, so I had to reedit it. lol

[Letho]

Keep in mind that RoG isn't like judging; you can't specify a mod to look over your update thread. It's picked up by a random RoG mod. The only time when you can specify a mod is when you have proof of bias of a certain mod and you don't want him to handle your update, but there were but a few cases of such suspicion in all my time here.

[Skie and Avery]

The rare times I've specified mods for a character was when I tossed in in-jokes and I wanted to make sure that mod saw it. It had nothing to do with thinking there was a mod who was biased. Also, while it is true that moderator discretion CAN change from mod to mod, all RoG mods do have a base guideline (like judging mods have the rubric and exp/gp equations as their bas guideline) when working with characters. Opinions won't really vary very far from each other, and I know on more than a few cases, the RoG mods have gone to each other to discuss and postulate on character apps before. So even if mod a and mod b have different views on a character, there's a chance they'll bounce opinions off each other and you'll end up with a viewpoint that's more or less the median of the two schools of thought.

[Seralcard]

The exchange between Edward and Bloodrose is one I hadn't really considered before, and since we are already on the subject I'd like to pose a question. Dealing with equality on the individual scale rather than across the entire board; are there ever any problems between players and mods over this sort of thing? Here are two examples:

John Doe wants to enhance his character's speed from A to (A+4), he has never seen another player at his level do this but believes it is something he deserves. A mod denies this upgrade because it is overpowered, and there is a history of denying such extreme enhancements that says no player has ever been passed with this before (I imagine this happens often).

Jane Doe wants to enhance her character's strength from A to (A+4), as she has seen other characters approved with this and would like to do the same. However a mod denies the upgrade as overpowered, which leads to the player mentioning some other player who was passed with almost what she asked for exactly (I imagine this is quite rare if it happens at all).

In the event of problem one there doesn't seem to need to be any expanding, overpowering your character is not something which is allowed and has never been allowed, John Doe's point is mute.

But in the event of problem two there is now a different issue, as it can be said that Jane Doe does have a point. I'm curious as to whether there is a system in place to deal with these issues, or whether it is a matter of the player's good or bad luck to be reviewed by a someone with a certain point of view.

[Skie and Avery]

Well, there's also the question of what levels you're moving through. Taking your speed from average to above average from level 0 to level 1 is acceptible. Going from average to supernatural might be blocked if you also wanted to upgrade other stuff and add new abilities. If it's your only upgrade between the levels, or if it's a change that comes at a higher level, then it would probably go through more easily.

The "But she leveled it up like that!" argument is childish, and I would expect a moderator to be firm in the natural mother's response, "I don't care what they're doing, this is you and I make the rules."

Like I said, moderator opinion in the RoG doesn't stray too far from each other anyway, so if you want to call it "bad luck" go right ahead. The point is that the RoG mods are RoG mods because the staff felt that they could competently handle keeping character abilities fair in regards to level. Their word is law. If you really feel you're being cheated, take it to an admin. The RoG has some of the most unappreciated mods on the force. They're the ones who have to read through your little step by step strategies for making someone to save/take over the world every time you level. Bitching about having to do one more quest or wait one more level to be Jack Flash or Timmy the Tank is retarded.

[Seralcard]

*raises hands defensively*

I'm new and my first solo has yet to be judged, so I'm not complaining about anything. Every other board I've seen that attempts to do what Althanas does has failed quite miserably, I think what's going on here is amazing.

I was only trying to pose a question, as this is the forum to do that, isn't it? If I offended you at all in my ignorance I'm very sorry, please forgive.

[Skie and Avery]

I understand your question, but saying that a specific moderator has anything to do with "level-up ability boosts" is stupid. It's not helping anyone actually figure out how to efficiently level up a character, giving tips about how much is too much. All it's doing is blindly slandering moderators, making the public paranoid that their next upgrade will be handled unfairly. I have known certain mods to be labeled as too harsh. I've held that opinion myself about a few of the staff, but I have never ever had a problem with leveling upgrades or level 0 new character registrations. When I felt that a mod was asking me to limit too much, I started a conversation with them in PM or AIM to discuss why they felt it was overpowered, and found a solution WITH them. Sitting around and saying, "Oh man, if you get so and so, you're screwed." is bad for the forum when there isn't a single mod on the staff who would be unwilling to work to make this site, your character and the overall experience of the forums, including leveling up, a better thing all around.

[Seralcard]

When I felt that a mod was asking me to limit too much, I started a conversation with them in PM or AIM to discuss why they felt it was overpowered, and found a solution WITH them.

This is the answer I was looking for. I'm sorry if it seemed as though I was starting some kind of trouble, that was not my intention in the slightest, I asked if there was something you could do if you felt that your character had been handled unfairly and the above is exactly what I wanted to know.

Again, I'm new, it's only been a few days and even though every one of the moderators I've spoken to has been a wonderful person I was still unsure of how this sort of issue was handled. In previous forums I've been involved with a moderator's original decision was final and absolute, there was no "Let me talk to the mod because he/she is a decent guy and we might be able to work it out" moderators did not appreciate being questioned on this sort of thing and so there was no discussion to be had.

I'm very glad it's handled this way on Althanas, rather than what I am accustomed to. And again, I apologize because none of what I said was meant to be offensive or disrespectful at all, I just wanted to know because this is important information.

[Christoph]

Seralcard: you shouldn't have to apologize or defend yourself. It was a fair question that I think many new members are curious about but afraid to ask about for fear of receiving some of the reactions already displayed in this thread. It's important to remember that all mods are human, just like everyone else. (No, really, we are) Concern is understandable for new members, since this forum is so radically different from others. Just keep in mind that we are typically rather effective at keeping our ranks in check and procedure standardized. In short, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[Cyrus the virus]

Ser is quite unused to awesome sites like ours. Hee-ho!

There have been times when a character has been approved with too much power or an overlooked ability (I think this was mentioned). In the past, sometimes a hothead (often myself) would pull the thread out of the archive and unapprove it, sassing the moderator in the process. These days if something like that happens, RoG mods will communicate in IM and if they agree there's an issue, it'll be dealt with.

Generally, though, RoG mods know what's okay and what isn't. Some have been rigid at times, enforcing status quo rules when it's not always necessary or smart, and some have been far too lenient, but the approvals process is pretty steady these days.

Since I've done it for so long, though, I've developed a trust for the general public. If something has the potential to be abused but seems interesting or important to the writer/character, I'll just give a warning not to abuse it and it's rarely been a problem. People deserve some leeway if they want to have fun with their character.

[Serilliant]

They're the ones who have to read through your little step by step strategies for making someone to save/take over the world every time you level. Bitching about having to do one more quest or wait one more level to be Jack Flash or Timmy the Tank is retarded.

I can't imagine why on earth you would think that RoG mods were unappreciated when you have such an amicable attitude!

[Godhand]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooh

SNAP!

[Lavinian Ambition]

My god, this is an interesting conversation to come home to.

Its all been hashed out, and Bloodrose has the right idea. The problem with registering in the ROG is not "Mod discrepency" but merely an opinion. Now let me ask you this, which character is more overpowered?

A) Character that can make a sphere of complete darkness. Also has the ability to see in complete darkness. This character is Level 0.

B) A character that has the ability to manipulate shadows as weapons, and can see in complete darkness. This character is ALSO level 0.

Sometimes, when a mod asks an ability be modified they let another character slide with, its because of the ability to combo. Character A could kill any other character that had no ability to compensate for lack of vision almost regardless of level. Its the whole package, not just singular abilities.

So, keep this in mind when you think about why mods change opinions on the same profile.

I'm glad the discussion came up, its always nice to see people inquisitive on the process. However, I do get a bit defensive over the baby I helped raise...