Another podcast

[LordLeopold]

And thus we have the third podcast. (http://www.box.net/public/ao6kqm2b5v)

At this point I'm too tired from work to post much else. Listen and discuss!

[Cyrus the virus]

Interesting. I think it's near time to institute the Tap as the official 'source' of Althanas' magic, as that invisible force that makes magic, as an energy (or power, or tool) exist.

I think it'd add to Althanas' world. We need more reasons, more sources, for certain things that exist on Althanas, I believe. We need a history that dates back to Althanas' beginning, and the Tap is a good place to start.

Though we could change the name. Heheh :)

[Dissinger]

I don't see it...is there some special instructions?

[Ashiakin]

I think the site that's hosting it is down for the moment.

[Max Dirks]

Madison, do you hold a grudge?

About the tap. I'm not sure that giving Althanas a concrete source of magic is such a good idea anymore. After reviewing a few other play-by-post sites with 'centralized magic' in my recruitment drive, I've noticed a few potential problems. You talked about whether or not magic comes from within or from without in one of your previous podcasts. It's an extremely relevant conversation. In order to institute such a concept, you are going to have to choose whether or not the tap will function as an external source of magic (like aquiring mana in M:tG) or if the tap will be internal (such as the Saiyan transformations in DBZ). To play devil's advocate, will it be a combination of both? Can it exist with other forums of magic?

The more you define, the less creativity that comes as a result. I created a gravity mage character for one of those sites. The character was not "approved" due to the fact that gravity was not a recognized type of elemental magic on the site. In order to be able to use that type of character, I would have to submit an entire compliment of information including how the magic was drawn from their "tap" and what spells can be used from it. Then I had to create a detailed schematic on how the magic was used (ie. time to cast for different mastery levels). It wasn't worth my time so I re-registered as a fallen gravity mage who'd lost his powers.

My suggestion is to make the tap into a storyline adaption much like Ithermoss' Thayne religion. Even if it's optional it can still be extremely successful, especially if tournaments like the AC and certain regional quests are based around it.

[Cyrus the virus]

Yep, maintenance. It wasn't like that before. Just wait a while and it'll hopefully be up again soon.

You and your grudges, Tony.

I don't think they're suggesting we make it quite as involved as that. I see the Tap as being the source for magic, all magic, meaning we don't list what types exist. It merely provides magic to Althanas, both as an external and internal... thing. It is simply the source of the magic. Nothing more, nothing less.

That's how I've been thinking of it, anyway.

[Max Dirks]

Isn't that like saying gods created Althanas, but its up to you to decide which ones?

What if someone wants the ultimate source of their magic to be something closely related to their character and not something generic? For example, its a difference between saying that Luc gains his magical aptitude from his own lifeforce and Luc gains his magical aptitute from his own lifeforce, which he can do because of the existence of some eternal tap. Which is more important to Luc, the magic within himself or the magic within himself that is granted by another force (or power)?

[Cyrus the virus]

If I knew more about ecology or how the earth works I could come up with a good example. Maybe gravity is a good way to look at it, in that the source of it exists and everyone is effected by it, and the Earth has gravity because of whatever the source of it is :p I'm an idiot.

I see the Tap as the source that created and sustains magic as a whole, nothing more whatsoever. I understand the fear that we'll develop a magic system like on other sites, but I just don't see it happening...

[Dissinger]

To clarify my no mod Stance, I meant no teams of two mods together... So no teams like Dirks and Thor, but if Thor wanted to go with say Me (who is no longer a mod) that would be okay.

As for the magic, I made my piece last time, I don't feel like arguing that, but I will say something about vocal trigger magic. In Lord of the rings, you get Gandalf and Saruman basically casting spells at each other/other things. Remember the whole scene at Durin's Door with Gandalf casting spell after spell, before he realizes he made a mistake, and speaks the elvish word for Friend. "Speak Friend and Enter"

There is a strong debate for vocalized magic, you may say that generalized nonverbal magic is key. I however would point out Tolkien created magic done on verbal cue. There is equal debate for either, also don't even go into shamanistic magic at all, just try and stick with hermatic magicks? You're whole arguement when talking magic starts to fall apart.

I like how you went more indepth into the tap. It makes alot of Sense. I'm kinda interested in the forgotten ones more, not so much as I want to push my storyline into it, as I want to see if things could be adapted to mine...maybe they affected things in mine or somethign else like that.

[Project Serenade]

The thing with the Tap... well, I really like the idea of an overall magic system but with Murdoch, well, with all the 'magic' I use, it's not really magic in the traditional sense but more of a genetic power thing - sort of sciencey/X-Men-like. Anyways, usually, my characters will manipulate fire/ice/whatever rather than create it and when they do this, it's like moving an arm to them; it's as much a part of who and what they are as their arms, hair etc. Sure, it takes effort, and they get tired - just like when you run, your body does - but I've never really thought that they were drawing from anything outside of themselves.

[Reiko]

I don't think a Tap is a good idea. I'd rather leave explanations of the magic to the players. If I wanted to explain the source of Kit and Inari’s fox magic be a goddess with a foxtail for every kitsune in the world who bend reality to suit the need of her “children” then I’d like to be the source of my magic. I’m with Max that it limits creativity in that it won’t allow them to come up with their own sources of magic, which I think would be much better. Is some people want something to be a source of their magic be the eternal tap then it’s fine but it should not be the source of all magic.

[Storm Veritas]

I agree, Ran.

Forcing a singular source of magic on players will be as successful as burdening them with a cumbersome history. It will just be ignored anyway, and then the punishment will lead to hurt feelings.

In instances where it isn't ignored, it will stifle creativity. We need to bear in mind that the stories here are written by the writers, not the Admins, and as little forced dictation of content as possible is a good thing.

[Ozmodious]

I have to say, you guys at the podcast really know how to start a heated debate. My idea of magic so far has been to take a very cautious approach with it. I'm not saying that I'm afraid what people would think if I write about magic in my own style, I just think it would be a good idea not to use the rabbit in the hat trick too many times before someone cries wolf. Err. . not use to metaphors some of you? Alright let me give you an example;

I use to have a character on althanas and his sub storyline was about the destruction of magic. When I created this beast that totally abolished the use of magic, I opened Pandora's Box. Some of you might recall facing this character in a certain arena in which he dissolved a magical barrier with a kind of anti-magic shard. In an effort to actually stay fair I made a brief explanation in how my character thought these shards would work, which in a sense I explained the system of magic from his perspective. What? Are you surprised? A theory?! Well hold on and read it before you make any judgment calls:


Da Theory

In our world, magic is the by-product of the arcane energy that

is in our every day life. The mages, or people who cast this stuff

are in a sense manipulating arcane energy based on their

proficency in doing so and creating what ever it is they are

striving to achieve whether it be concious or sub-concious. The

strength in magic is the thickness of the arcane strands that are

cast, meaning the thicker these strands are the more powerful

they will be. The shards, simply, have the ability to break

down these barriers the arcane energy creates when it is

manipulated and begins to dissolve this energy as it breaks it

down. There is still some explanation as to how the shards

accomplish this through further testing.


You see how vivid that explanation was? In no where in that explanation did I ever say where this arcane energy came from or the total breakdown of it with the use of these shards. This gives players an open window to add to it, and believe me, afterwards I got an ear full from Gild. Magic will never be an exact science to the people who want to explain it. The best you could do is try to give your view on it in a particular situation and hope it sticks. As for generalizing how magic is used? Storm, your right, it will be ignored. This theory, the Tap, although it is a good one it is not something I personally would use.

Magic is, like I said before, like pulling a rabbit out of a hat only the magician doesn't know where the rabbit came from. The more we try to scrutinize magic and put it under a microscope there will be an open debate over it. There is a viable solution to this dilemma, however. We give people the option on whether to do it or not through, from what I think Cyrus said about Magic reform, vague explanation. Yes, that is a little weird, but it opens the door for something the people who actually cast magic dream about; freedom.

The more you try to explain something like an ability in a profile, you open it up to debate and you will make your life as a writer very, very difficult if you are in a battle and your abilities don't work because you put a 'limit' on how many times you can do it, or its effectiveness. If this happens to you you are screwed inless you can find some way to stall for time. Inless you want to actually write under a strict system you yourself created with your 'explanation', its time to listen up.

[Yari Rafanas]

I should call in sometime. Everybody wants to hear from me.

[Storm Veritas]

These are a lot of fun. Hearing from people helps put a tone behind the text. Interesting. You guys NEED to hook up the call-in style podcast!

[Letho]

I have no problem with this "Tap" as being the foundation of magic. True, my characters aren't the most famous magic users, but that's beside the point. The way I see it, the Tap is basically what stands behind the scenes of all magic and people can choose to acknowledge it or choose to ignore it. In the end it won't make any difference. This is how I see it:

Reiko says that her magic originates from the fox goddess or something. Tap is what stands behind the goddess. She can know about it or doesn't have to know about it, it's up to her. Either way, it changes nothing in the way she plays it.

Storm basically summons lightning out of his ass. Behind his ass is the Tap but he doesn't have to know about it. Ok, that's maybe a wierd example. ;)

Some random character has some random powers granted by some random means. Behind all of that stands the Tap. It's up to people how far do they want to take it with the explanation of the origin of their magic. For all their purposes, ICly their character don't have to know about the Tap. A mage can reach lv10 without really knowing or caring from where is he getting this power. A conjurer can live throughout his whole life believing that his powers are granted by some deity or some item and that works. The basic idea is to leave it up to the players do they wish to acknowledge the Tap and do they want to integrate it in their characters. I don't see that killing the creativity.

[Futsuriai]

Letho has hit it spot on, in regards to my opinion. Since I've known of the Tap that's how I thought of it, the conscious or subconscious, present or tacit source of magic. Since Fin and Leopold said it was broken I find it even more apt as it can easily explain why different characters have wildly different magics. I like the idea a lot, it has good potential.

[Cyrus the virus]

Yeah, Letho just said what I've been trying to say for 3 posts. He's such a badass.

[Ozmodious]

I still think it would be best to leave magic ideology in the eye of the beholder. Generalizing something regardless if its a good idea puts a group of people under a banner that some might not be comfortable with. As a group it might seem okay now to provide an explanation over the theory of magic, but give it a couple of days, weeks, perhaps even a month or two. I'm not saying there will be a massive revolt and people will riot in the streets because of this, but you are still stifling the creativity of those who are actually here trying to learn how to write. That isn't fair to them it isn't fair to the people who have to participate in it, the people who read it, or to the people who have to judge it. Leave it be.

[Thoracis]

It's cute that you have an Althanas-crush, Matt.

[Reiko]

True people can ignore it but it becomes rather pointless since it makes a poor plot device. Since the thing involves all of Althanas then it pretty much becomes untouchable since if someone messed with it would affect all magic. I know its split up and all. But still it's like what’s the point if no one can do anything with it? Then lets say someone used it as a plot device and did something with it, like control it and brought all the magic to his self. Would he get more power than an equal level mage or would he weaken a certain form of magic. Since the Tap is all magic then someone messing with it would disrupt Althanas. The Tap can be a source of magic but if it's not the source of magic then people can mess with it a bit. I really don't see why I can't have a magic that's independent from the Tap.

[Empyrean]

I don't mind the idea of the Tap, but I do have one question. Would it be limited to Althanas alone, or would it be available to people outside of Althanas?

My character isn't from Althanas, but has been using her brand of magic since before she ever came to Althanas, so I'd want the Tap not to be limited to people in or from Althanas. She has no idea exactly what the source of her magic is - she just sees it as coming directly from the gemstones. So, I like the idea of the Tap being the source, but it sounds as though it is limited to Althanas.

Anyway, great podcast, guys. Definitely have some call-ins next time. :)

[INDK]

Now, I don't see why the tap cant' be one of many sources of magic. I don't think having the tap is a bad thing, and it should be encouraged for the same reason many other things are encouraged- they help creativity.

I also feel everyone else should have an impression of how their magic works, simply becuase unless you know how something works, you don't know how something can be countered.

[Pathfinder]

You all are great, but you can't pronounce a blasted thing

[Cyrus the virus]

It's cute that you have an Althanas-crush, Matt.

He kind of looks like Snake, too.

I don't see how the existence of the Tap would make anyone have to participate in it. As Letho said, your character can live his entire life not knowing a thing about the Tap. You can write your entire 'career' on Althanas and never once mention the Tap. We just want it to exist as an explanation as to why magic exists. Kind of like everything else that exists on Althanas' plane of existence.

Don't you think that having magic exist on Althanas but not having even a slight explanation for it is kinda... Stupid? Considering we're all pretty smart here, coming up with a vague explanation for magic isn't hard. I feel like you're all fighting against the Tap for no reason whatsoever, since it doesn't have to affect a single character who doesn't want to be effected.

Reiko, I see nothing wrong with the idea that the Tap can be sought after or something. It's a poor plot device, yes, but that's because it's not supposed to be a plot device. It's supposed to be an explanation of something that doesn't make sense without some explaining.

Sure, people can quest for the Tap and think he can increase his powers as a mage. But that can happen with any relic or item that anybody makes up ever, and moreover, the argument that someone could quest for the Tap goes hand in hand with the argument that someone can quest to destroy Alerar. All of Corone was turned into a frozen wasteland in my quest, does that mean everyone needs to acknowledge it?

I think the 'weak plot device' and 'I want independant magic' arguments are incredibly weak, given what we've already discussed and/or established in this thread about the Tap's actual influence on magic.

[Reiko]

If people want to explain magic than they can and will. I don't want the tap to be a forced explanation for people. The beauty of magic is it doesn't need an explanation. We have magic and no one needs to know why but they can give a reason and it can be the Tap but it doesn’t have to be and it doesn’t have to do anything with the tap, and I mean anything. The Tap can be a part of the infinite sources of magic, from gods to items that don’t need the tap to overpowering physics with you mind with some ritual to help focus. There’s no need to make it the one true source of magic that would cheapen other players explanations that that they make. Forcing the Tap on people, and I really hate the play blind idea just goes against one reason I like Althanas more than other RP sites: The freedom to truly create something and share it with people, I want hex magic to have a source completely different from fox magic and the like.

[Letho]

Reiko, I think you're missing the point. Every character has a right to explain their magic the way they want to, regardless of the Tap. ICly, the people that don't want to or have their own explanations, don't even have to acknowledge the Tap. Those that want to, can find the Tap behind the curtain. It's as simple as that. You as a magic user can claim whatever you want as the source of your magic. You can even find something behind that source that isn't the Tap. But behind that something is the Tap that you don't have to acknolwedge in your writing. It harms no one to have the Tap, and yet it can inspire some creativity for those who accept it.

[Sighter Tnailog]

There is a strong debate for vocalized magic, you may say that generalized nonverbal magic is key. I however would point out Tolkien created magic done on verbal cue. There is equal debate for either, also don't even go into shamanistic magic at all, just try and stick with hermatic magicks? You're whole arguement when talking magic starts to fall apart.

Tolkien did not create "verbal magic." Gandalf was not trying to "cast a spell" on the door to make it open. He was trying to figure out what the password might be, by going through all the arcane lore in his mind. "Edro," for instance, one of the words he used trying to open the door, simply means "open." Most of the "magic" Gandalf does in the Lord of the Rings is the result of knowledge. He makes fireworks because, get this, he knows how to make them. He tries to divine which way to go in Moria, not with spells, but with common sense and the lore he's mastered over time. When Gandalf uses magic in LotR, he is relying on a wellspring of power within himself, and he is actually reluctant to do so except in the most dire of circumstances. That is, I think, a better way to look at magic -- something that is so powerful and subtle that we use it little. I think that's what differentiates a true mage from some no-account hedge sorceror.

I really just posted, though, to say that the thing with the Eternal Tap is that the Tap is divided into hundreds of thousands of divergent strands -- it is no longer "universal." If we were to operate with it being "full and complete," then maybe the problems Dirks brings up would be more material. But, with a Tap that's been divided against itself into a multitude of strands and pieces, we can operate on the general principle that ALL magic -- both magic that's driven internally and magic that's driven externally -- is from the Tap. I think philosophizing over the Tap is kinda silly, when it is so divided right now that it has no universal center.

EDIT: For clarity: everyone uses the Tap, even people from outside Althanas. But not everyone uses it in the same way. Not everyone calls it the Tap, even. The Tap is, more than anything else, the intellectual name referred to it in ancient texts from the War of the Tap. The Tap serves, more than anything else, as an OOC/IC explanation of where magic ultimately comes from. It sets ABSOLUTELY NO LIMITS on the magic of character either in the past, present, or future.

[Liliana Ambria]

My point was not that he created vocalized magic, but that he used it. Thanks for Misunderstanding...

[Sighter Tnailog]

My point was not that he created vocalized magic, but that he used it. Thanks for Misunderstanding...

Sure, he "used" it, but it's just sorta weird to call what it is "magic." There seems to be something different between saying a password to a door and casting a spell.

[Empyrean]

For clarity: everyone uses the Tap, even people from outside Althanas. But not everyone uses it in the same way. Not everyone calls it the Tap, even. The Tap is, more than anything else, the intellectual name referred to it in ancient texts from the War of the Tap. The Tap serves, more than anything else, as an OOC/IC explanation of where magic ultimately comes from. It sets ABSOLUTELY NO LIMITS on the magic of character either in the past, present, or future.

If that's the case, I see nothing wrong with it at all. :) Thanks for clearing that up, I was curious about that.

Has anyone volunteered to call in yet?

[Yari Rafanas]

Has anyone volunteered to call in yet?


Yes.

<--

[Ozmodious]

Be sure to call collect. =P

[Arawn]

I finally got around to listening to the third installment of Althanas Podcasts™. It’s still fun to hear. Here are some of my opinions:


- I agree that tournament judges should not be tournament participants at the same time. Granted, less mods would be available to judge, but we could remedy that with non-commentary judgments (commentary used to take me much more in my judgings too) or allow more regions judges to take on tournament threads.

- In the case of quality mods versus overly active ones getting hired, I’ve come to believe that activity is far too much of a deciding factor in who gets picked. I won’t specify with names, but I know of a few outstanding writers’ applications getting voted down because they don’t log on every single day, when this didn’t used to be a prerequisite. Also, I know of a couple of mods who where the most cliché and subpar RPers around but were hired because one never missed their accounts from “Who’s Online”. (I’m not talking about anyone who’s a mod at present.)

- The ‘da da da’s and ‘doo doo doo’s while you’re reading through the old thread are wonderful guys. I want to see more in future podcasts. :D

- “Transforming into a monster and eating someone…”? Who does that? :o

- I’m quite tired of the Fellowship system of questing as well. I tried something like what you said about having greater circumstances impacting different characters in different ways in an ongoing thread with Seether, Cyrus and Damon. We all began in different places and started off alone for the first couple of pages, only having some of our characters interacting later on.

- Much like Tony said in the mod forum, it would be great to have a featured storyline that grows in the hands of individual participants. A mission board would help a lot with keeping certain people making themselves the center of the universe, so to speak.

- The Theater of War definitely prized quantity over quality. It bothered me more than somewhat. I always believed the ranking system for it should work based on the best score of a participant as well as his average score. Thoughts?

- The Tap and the Forgotten Ones are very interesting, but I think it shouldn’t encompass all magic. It’s interesting within your storylines, but others should have the freedom to create their own magic sources, separate from the dreaded asbestos creature.



(Since you guys went on for more than half an hour I just wrote as I listened rather than try and remember everything you talked about. My opinions are therefore more or less following the order of topics you touched on.)

[Cyrus the virus]

Eh, there are reasons beyond activity as to why people aren't being accepted as moderators. I think you're talking in extremes, boy!

Not logging on every day is fine, heck, even I, the great Cyrus, didn't log in yesterday. But when you only log in once a week... Then it gets iffy.

That, and I think non-comment judgings defeat the purpose of the judgings in the first place. It used to annoy the shit out of me when people did that. Tony's method with tourney judgments make sense, but I still wish he's put explanations for each category... People need to know how to improve, not just what they did wrong.

Tyler!

[Reiko]

I agree with Cyrus. One of the reasons I gave up on tourneys was that the judgments tended to be complaining about not being able to finish. Commentary is needed so people can improve and it's not like the guys who win the tournaments are perfect. I’ve judged a few threads and while none were battles they didn’t take that much longer to write comments, they were what helped the people see where they were standing. I also think Judgments always need a balance of praising the good parts and criticizing the bad, though having more criticism is fine if it’s not crushing and the player feels some accomplishment over the thread. Just numbers is the worst, it makes the work the person did was not worth commenting on and that the numbers were made up and thrown out with little reason.

I’d rather see no more tournaments than to see them not being commented on being the comments are the judges duty and the score is just numbers. Not to say I’m a big fan of tournaments. All they’re good for is inflating and crushing egos and hampering activity in non-tourneys because the players devote and are forced to devote way too much time to them and sometimes it’s all the time a person has for Althanas.

[Walter]

Would someone be willing to direct me to the first and second Althanas podcasts? Like with good books, I can't bring myself to listen to the third of a group of guys talking if they've already been talking for two podcasts. I just can't.

[LordLeopold]

The first- http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?t=1163
The second - http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?t=1262

They were posted in the Roleplayer's Corner, which is an inconsistancy on my part.

[Cyrus the virus]

http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?t=1163&highlight=podcast
http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?t=1262&highlight=podcast

Bing and bong.

Reiko... Why are you obsessed with this 'ego' stuff? I can think of maybe four people on the entire site who have an actual ego problem. Gar.

But no comments in judgings is BS, no matter how little time someone has. Gar again.

EDIT: Frank sucks. :p

[Horizon's End]

Hm... I don't know if I agree. I feel like a Tournament is not necessarily something you do to improve, it's something you do knowing what you're capable of. I mean, you do get valuable experience but nothing stops you from doing the same in a regular quest, hell, it's even easier in one since a Tournament is usually hard to fit with most characters resulting in thinly veiled IC reasoning for their need to win the Anebrilith Three-Legged Race because they thirst for recognition or some such. That's irrelevant, though, Tournaments, I feel, are made to be won, not to improve yourself as a human being; that's what the rest of the site is for.

[Cyrus the virus]

That does make sense, but I like to know why I get the scores I do, always. Especially if some categories are 5 and some are 6 and I lose by a half-point.

[Dissinger]

Its my opinion there is no excuse not to comment on something. If it only takes a couple of minutes to express why you felt they did so well/so poorly then take it. I know Unseen for awhile was disheartened when he got his fight back and had no comments on it. No comments is also opening up situations where people can claim the mods were arbitrarily assigning numbers (Not that I think any current member of the Althanas Staff does so). It just helps people get a better feel for the opinions they got if they know WHY they got their scores.