Region NPC's

[Godhand]

You know why I like writing in the bazaar, and why I feel AdventWings might be the most under-appreciated mod in the entire site?

The fact that he routinely writes as NPCs for the benefit of other characters.

Hear me out. Doesn't it feel like all the regions are exactly the fucking same? It does, doesn't it? Admit it! Everyone just writes in Corone anyway because all the region writers do is say "Here's what the place looks like and here are some NPC's you can't play with because your quest will be declared non-canon. Have fun." I respect why they do that; I respect that you can't just have joe fuckface sportsbar kill the king of Salvar because that's retarded and it screws up the rest of Althanas. I get that. But you know what? Even if you were allowed to write the bastards, it still wouldn't make any difference. It'd still just be you playing with yourself.

The bazaar is fun because you're not competing with anybody for the spotlight, but it doesn't have the fucking dreariness of a solo quest. Now imagine if Findelfin wrote the high bard council of Raiearea(can't spell that shit) Elfland in anything other than stuff Findelfin the character was involved in? The number of people writing in Elfland would skyrocket! Same thing with Salvar and the other regions. I'm not saying everybody should get to speak to the king, but it'd be nice if you could request an audience.

I've actually talked to Sighter about this and he agrees with me. In theory, anyway. But the mods are overworked as it is. I get that too. I realize that it's ludicrous to ask mods to take this shit on among everything else they're doing.

Now, those that know me know that I'm one of the most vocal people against giving mods IC rewards like gold and exp for OOC work. But you know what? I'll reverse my position on this. I have no problem with people getting IC benefits for playing their region's NPCs. I mean Goddamnit, can't you just imagine how much more vibrant Althanas would be? Every region would truly have it's own distinct 'feel', just like the writers do.

Comment on this shit, people.

And now, so the cavalcade of fags and idiots don't run in expressing their disbelief that I've done something other than troll, here it is:

Kikes fuck niggers for money. Buy Colgate.

[Tshael]

Are you saying that continent mods should get rewards for participating in people's threads?

[Godhand]

That is exactly what I'm saying. Whatever it takes to give the regions some identity.

[Tshael]

I like this idea. It reminds me of the days when Redrick would bust into people's Alerar quests.

[Winterhair]

OMG GODHAND DOING SOMETHING OTHER THAN--alright, cutting off the sarcasm. Gimme a beer.

I agree, though. I've recently taken to wanting to write more in the bazaar because here's the thing; I can't write solos. Can't. Tried. Couldn't. Having one of the mods there to help my storyishthing go along without dying in the middle of it because I can't find the motivation to write is refreshing. AdventWings is one of the hardest working mods around due to the simple fact that he plays not just his character but all those NPC's as well; it can't be easy-peasy. So I agree, continent writers should get rewards for NPC writing. I'd like to see the "story" of Althanas really get some activity.

I know, I know. FQ's, and all that, before anybody says anything. Just stating how I feel.

[Mithra Reborn]

Well Mr. Godhand, I must say that I would definitely support it. I basically look at the regions brief two-sentence summary on the world index and know everything I need to. There's Fallien, the equivalent of the desert/middle east! There's Istraloth, it's tropical! It kinda makes me feel like I'm writing in a very flat place because going through all the information of an area can just be so....two-dimensional. It's like drawing a stick figure. But if mods were given incentives to do the stuff that makes this world breathe as much as our world, fuck yes I'm for it.

Thanks for bringing this up Mr. Godhand. Hope this goes through.

[Serilliant]

It kinda makes me feel like I'm writing in a very flat place because going through all the information of an area can just be so....two-dimensional.

Keep in mind that there is some pretty detailed information about each region in the almanac here: http://althanas.com/world/faq.php?faq=althanasalmanac. The Althanas History (also in the FAQ) provides for a decent historical context for some of the modern constructs as well.

I do really like this idea, though. How do propose that the mechanics might work? Moderators jump in at random to play NPCs? Players request that an NPC be a part of their quest, and ask a mod to do it? Something else?

Philosophically, I love the idea. I just would like to see how, exactly, it could work.

[Godhand]

I like the idea of a mod busting in on a thread like the fucking Kool-Aid man, but I'm not quite sure how that would work. Okay, I'm slowly starting to work it out...

Okay, say you have a quest with a clear beginning, middle and end and you don't want anybody to interfere. Then you could just state in your opening post "No region writer NPC's please". If you're not averse to the idea of someone busting in, you can say "open to region writer" and if you want to roleplay with the NPC's, you say "Closed to region writer and x", where x is whoever you're also roleplaying with.

I also like the idea of appointing some people the region writer trusts as NPC writers. That would lessen the workload.

Let me just be clear that when I say IC rewards, I don't mean like a piddling 100 exp. I mean the STANDARD exp and gold they'd get if they'd written in that quest with their main character. If this idea takes off and enough people are into it then it could get scaled back, but until then I am for whatever it takes to get region writers interested in their fucking regions again and writing their NPC's.

I'm not exaggerating when I say that, if done right, this idea could make althanas a hundred times better. Christ, just think about it! Living, breathing continents! I'm not one to normally get excited about online shit but this could be the best althanas idea I ever had, and I'm the one who suggested the Pagoda championship and the non-FQ MVP idea. (more on that later)

Edit: I am truly the greatest guy.

[Winterhair]

I do really like this idea, though. How do propose that the mechanics might work? Moderators jump in at random to play NPCs? Players request that an NPC be a part of their quest, and ask a mod to do it? Something else?


I don't think jumping in at random would be all that appropriate, but if we went with the request system, it might go overboard for the moderators. Imagine waking up with fifteen requests to play so and so in this and this. I'd be just like that Hillary Clinton midget myself: a happy happy no. As Godhand stated, the mods have enough shit to work on without having to concentrate on getting this and this done: lots of players have little patience, it seems, and I don't think they (the mods) want to be barraged with complaints, even more so than nowadays.

Rather, and I know this has flaws, I think the mods should be the ones to say when so-and-so is available. Going with Godhand's example of Findelfin playing the council, he should be able to state to Althanas saying "Oh, these guys are now available to be RP'ed with/in, and will be so until this and this date." Like I said, I know its flawed, but ultimately I believe it should be up to the moderators to decide.

EDIT: Ah fuck, I just got ninja'd by da' Greatest Guy.

[Godhand]

I refuse to take mod workload as an excuse. Not this time. Goddamnit, appoint a whole fucking CABAL of NPC writers to each region if that's what it takes; DOUBLE the fucking exp they get if that's what it takes. This thing could make Althanas good again for the first time in years. Can't you see?

[Letho]

I like the idea of a mod busting in on a thread like the fucking Kool-Aid man, but I'm not quite sure how that would work. Okay, I'm slowly starting to work it out...

Okay, say you have a quest with a clear beginning, middle and end and you don't want anybody to interfere. Then you could just state in your opening post "No region writer NPC's please". If you're not averse to the idea of someone busting in, you can say "open to region writer" and if you want to roleplay with the NPC's, you say "Closed to region writer and x", where x is whoever you're also roleplaying with.

I also like the idea of appointing some people the region writer trusts as NPC writers. That would lessen the workload.

Let me just be clear that when I say IC rewards, I don't mean like a piddling 100 exp. I mean the STANDARD exp and gold they'd get if they'd written in that quest with their main character. If this idea takes off and enough people are into it then it could get scaled back, but until then I am for whatever it takes to get region writers interested in their fucking regions again and writing their NPC's.

I'm not exaggerating when I say that, if done right, this idea could make althanas a hundred times better. Christ, just think about it! Living, breathing continents! I'm not one to normally get excited about online shit but this could be the best althanas idea I ever had, and I'm the one who suggested the Pagoda championship and the non-FQ MVP idea. (more on that later)

Edit: I am truly the greatest guy.You sound a lot like somebody who feels that Internet is serious business.

Aside from that, I too am a fan of this idea. People often don't play the NPCs even if they get the permission because they're afraid they'll screw up. So if the NPC is always played by the same person, this inconsistencies wouldn't exist especially if they're played by the continent writer. Of course, if the writers don't have the time for this, we should recruit some people who would be instructed by the region writers on how to rp the NPCs. I'm not opposed to the regular rewards either. It's not exactly that they would get rewarded for OOC stuff. They would write ICly, even if the character in question was not their own.

I think this could work if there was an OOC request thread for each region, where people who want a mod-played NPC register their thread with the link and the summary of the storyline. The mod/NPC writer would then look over it and post.

[Godhand]

Anything I'm involved in becomes serious business.

[AdventWings]

Ah, shoot. And just as I cleared my last batch of Bazaar work. :p

OK, Mod works aside, I believe it's a great idea. The main problem is time, since the Mod force is spread over a wide area across the board. Judges are particularly hard-pressed, although we could work out a system so that Mods can switch around from time to time.

We can even have a queue-request, although I'm not a big fan of mechanical/automated requests for something so personal.

I'm still a vocal advocate of Region Writers or Moderators who know the mechanics of said region being the NPC writer.

[Winterhair]

Anything I'm involved in becomes serious business.
Oh gods. Its business time. Gottah take off mah paaaaaaaants....o.o

But since Godhand's taken to this idea so much, "hiring" region writers doesn't seem all that bad of an idea, especially with the reward system he's comin' up with. Hell, I'd be fuckin' happy to write as one in Fallien or Dheathain myself, I'm a dude with too much time anyways.
How 'bout it, ol' Serriliant and others?
EDIT: Fuckin' ninja'd AGAIN. DAMN your dramatic entrances!!!

[Godhand]

I'm not just fast. (http://www.flippeh.de/funPics/toLazyToRename/dynamic%20entry.jpg)

[Winterhair]

Pwned. (http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs21/f/2007/307/9/8/PWNED_by_D_T_A.jpg)
So.
Good idea?
Bad idea?
I personally think some extra hands would be...handy.
Now, someone get me two drums and a cymbal.

[Visla Eraclaire]

I don't think you should wait for people to ask for it. It seems to me that a few people plan their writing out meticulously to go in a certain direction (at least for some quests) and that those people can simply say "No region writer". Most people, based on their comments elsewhere, seem to enjoy the interplay between writers, natural development of story and character, and a more dynamic writing environment. For them, these NPC writers should burst in when they see an opening.

Honestly, it's a lot like DM'ing Althanas, and for those who play it as a game as well as a writing exercise, it will make it a lot more fun.

As a technical aspect, I would not recommend having current mods do it, unless they explicitly desire to and warrant that it will not slow down the board and that they will not neglect it. Also, it will prohibit them from judging those threads, though they do have to read them. The mod workload argument is not a trivial one, but it is easily solved. Official NPC Writer is a full time regional or multi-regional moderatorship which is not a Judge.

And if Godhand is taking a vacation from trolling to make a serious point, so have I.

[AdventWings]

Visla brings up a very good point about the perceived purposes of having Region Writers becoming engaged in writing (via NPC units) with the regular members. The point about Region Writers simply bursting in, however, seems to be the biggest problem I see.

On one hand, it could potentially disrupt the flow of story-telling in certain circumstance, especially if the thread in question is reaching the climax. Sure, the NPC's appearance could be used as Deux Ex Machina, but to appear suddenly and without warning just seems like bad form. On another, it could potentially be used to stop a storyline that would steer the region's development away from its planned future.

In any case, the story's pacing and suspense becomes broken.

What I believe would work is for members involved in the story (or even better, the person who's in charge of planning out the storyboard in the first place) to contact the Region Writer or Moderator who knows the region well enough to provide background information, important NPCs, cultural or other social aspects of the region while working alongside each posters to bring out the small details that make the region unique. This would require the Moderator in question a small time of their life, as opposed to making them actually write alongside the others as NPCs, to make sure nothing gets out of hand.

Some examples I could find would be 016573's Akashima Saga: Luxuria (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?t=14540) and Lakin_of_DpN's East Akashima (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?t=16016). Not to promote myself, but both members contacted me to ask for in-depth information on the backgrounds of Akashima as well as discussing potential storylines they could use. There's also one of Tainted Bushido's but I can't remember which one. (Sorry, man.)

If you really need an NPC writer, grab a reservation with your favorite Mod who's the region writer. If you can get them to post often enough for them to neglect some Mod duties, you've succeeded in chipping off some of their RP rust. :p

[Visla Eraclaire]

On one hand, it could potentially disrupt the flow of story-telling in certain circumstance, especially if the thread in question is reaching the climax. Sure, the NPC's appearance could be used as Deux Ex Machina, but to appear suddenly and without warning just seems like bad form. On another, it could potentially be used to stop a storyline that would steer the region's development away from its planned future.

This is easily solved by 1) not having bad writers as NPC Writers, 2) the ability to request that no NPC writers arrive, and 3) the writers arriving in appropriate places rather than just throwing NPCs in for no reason.

E.G. 1
Character A has an open quest where he sits in a public locale in Region X. No one arrives for a bit. To pass the time, or perhaps ultimately to create a quest where none would have happened, an NPC Writer arrives with a region-apropriate individual who speaks with Character A. The NPC can be completely tailored to the Character and Region's needs, rather than another character who will be pre-defined and registered and may or may not match up. This could do as little as add some local flavor before Character B arrives, or as much as give Character A a whole new quest idea.

E.G. 2
Character C and D are trying to solve Dilemma Y while wandering through Region Z. While C and D's writers may be able to "fake" a puzzle well enough, it is by its very nature fake because the writer knows the answer to his own problem. An NPC writer can arrive to pose a problem, question, riddle, issue, or other plot-mover to Characters C and D which is region appropriate, and for which the solution is not readily apparent, resulting in more realistic writing and characterization.



What I believe would work is for members involved in the story (or even better, the person who's in charge of planning out the storyboard in the first place) to contact the Region Writer or Moderator who knows the region well enough to provide background information, important NPCs, cultural or other social aspects of the region while working alongside each posters to bring out the small details that make the region unique. This would require the Moderator in question a small time of their life, as opposed to making them actually write alongside the others as NPCs, to make sure nothing gets out of hand.Members can already do this and generally do not. There are certainly examples you've cited, but they are the exception rather than the rule. Also, having important NPCs characterized by everyone separately yields an inconsistency. In addition, many new writers may feel uncomfortable including major NPCs in their stories for fear of using or writing them inappropriately.

In any event, this option would be left open to those who do not desire NPC Writers. The addition harms none (except to the extent that typing "No NPC Writer" is a harm), leaves existing options open, and provides an innovative and interesting new feature for writers to enjoy.

Staffing is the only issue, and I doubt it's really that difficult. The NPC Writer is a tool for the aid of all, just like a judge. Rather than reading, they aid by writing, not in a self-centered way focusing in their own characters, but by inventing and supplying needed characters for the stories of others on the fly. It's very promising.

[Taskmienster]

I'm fully for this idea. OMG, amazing.

I mean, can you imagine something like (not an intentional plug) the Red Hand's issue with the Corone Empire? And NPC writer for Corone could actually play a motherfuckin' soldier and fight us.. instead of us just eating them alive without any real contest. It's harder to be realistically involved with a thread when you are the writer for both yourself (who's always going to come otu ahead) and your opponent.

I wouldn't be opposed to writing myself as NPC's, it'd give those like myself (not excluding newer people in this but it's how I feel) that have been around forever writing with the same damned characters thread for thread a chance to write with a different personality and different idea's... without having to make new profiles and stuff. I don't always want to make a new character when I have an idea of how to throw myself into a thread, but can't really just jump in with an NPC under my account and expect to get anything from it.

As far as appointing them, it could definitely be like entering a moderator app. and getting approved base by base by the writer of the region. Once approved the writer could make a small NPC profile that they could use on average, or just write with whatever idea happens to come to mind in order to make things flow better. Of course, I'm kinda against the whole automated process, since that creates backlogs, which creates stress... so a stickied thread in the main forum of each region with requests for an NPC writer, would work. The writer could come in and accept them and join in the thread... and of course standard exp and gold would be awesome.

Imagine... IC rivalries with an NPC... such a good idea. Godhand, I may never say this again, but your brilliant.

[Caden Law]

...for what it's worth, I usually ignore the little signs saying DO NOT USE or THIS IS HOW THEY ARE TO BE PLAYED. Though it's probably more that I don't even notice they exist.

All the same, I figure so long as you don't outright kill, maim or disfigure any of them, they're good. And you could probably get away with killing them off anyway, provided you wrote it well enough. D:

[Mithra Reborn]

oh yeah. also, so how are we exactly going to make this idea happen? everyone seems to agree its good, throwing in ideas and all, but once its all planned out, do we just submit it to the head people or take a vote or have a debate or what?

[Skie and Avery]

There has been a conversation started about this in the mod forums, but the more players we have coming here to voice their opinions, the better. In fact, everyone should come here and voice their opinion. NAO.

[Esmerelda]

There has been a conversation started about this in the mod forums, but the more players we have coming here to voice their opinions, the better. In fact, everyone should come here and voice their opinion. NAO.

Yes Boss.

----------

Esmerelda's Opinion:

This is exciting and I can't wait to see some form of this implemented.

This has been Esmerelda's opinion, Thank you.

----------

Happy Now?

[Alabane]

I like the idea.

However, I think finding appropriate people to play the NPCs would be difficult. It seems like something that would be fun to do, for instance I would be willing to play NPCs but I know I'm not at that level of ability to play regionalized characters properly or at the level most people would need and would in fact lower the score by my participation. I think finding enough people capable of writing NPCs with region flavoring and also willing to do so would be prohibitive. I hope that's not the case, but I think it will be.

Another concern I have is the writers being told they need to play the NPCs just so and say exactly this "..." and move the plot forward [i]this[/] amount. I think that will cause burnouts like the judges get, reverting to the problem above. If the opposite happens where the NPC writer has complete freedom then you could also get unhappy players that have their quest derailed. I'd prefer the complete freedom, but that's just me.

I hope this works out and gets implemented, but not if it ends up being a huge burden on the NPC writers like judging is to some mods.

[Visla Eraclaire]

If burnout and the possibility of screwing people over were considered flawed by the Althanas leadership, they would have packed up the site and gone home years ago. As you pointed out, judges have exactly the same problems.

[Esmerelda]

What if, instead of using someone else's premade NPC's, why not have each region writer go through with the NPC writers for said region, and they do a specific quest where the NPC writers get to make their own NPC, with their own unique personality, and let them become an offical region NPC for that writer?

Or something like that. It would certainly head off sentiments of this NPC has to be portrayed in this certain manner or else it's wrong, and it would help to head off burnout.

I mean, it's just an idea. They don't even have to be employed by the government or that regions criminal underside. They could just be a local with the unfortunate knack of winding up in the middle of an adventure than most people. It's just, if the NPC writers helping out the region writer were allowed to make their own NPC's after a fashion, then that would make the character seem much more alive, than forcing someone to portray someone else's character.

[Smuggler's Run]

I'd like to go down on record as saying this is quite possibly one of the greatest ideas ever.

And I mean EVAR!!1

But that aside, I'll be bluntly honest in saying that it would be hard pressed to work. I can't imagine judging, writing, and NPCing all at once, as simply judging is a serious workload in and of itself. Although, I also think that if there are individuals willing to do it, it shall be done, so I guess my skepticism in that regard is flawed, or atleast, needless.

As for the various systems for how it works as proposed so far, I see these pros and cons:

"The Kool-Aid Man Style."
Pros: Surprising, forces players to adapt, creates a vibrant feel because now the quest is no longer controlled solely by the players, and it gives a chance for the world to respond in kind to the players in ways they never expected.
Cons: Can potentially ruin the players' scope and direction of the thread, also might generate jealousy over mods choosing someone else's thread instead of another's, and it would also require the mods to monitor many, many threads, looking for an opening at this post and that.

"Request System."
Pros: Writers are able to have carefully planned threads, they have a response from the "world," of Althanas itself, and they have the choice of the involvement of the mods.
Cons: Easy for writers to be burnt out over large workloads, potentially HUGE workloads, and reduces the "static," feel to the forum by very little. Also, there is the question as to whether or not it would be mandatory for the NPC writers to participate in ANY and ALL requests.

[Taskmienster]

I don't think you guy's get how easy it could be to write an NPC.

You don't have to have a set NPC to write with, what makes that any different than the writer just using their own character that is part of or from said region? A writer doesn't have to stick to one character, but could in fact, change characters completely thread to thread. They shouldn't have to be bogged down...

Meaning if I was a writer, and was writing for a thread in SB as a Knight of SB in one thread, I could also write as a Scourge member in another. Whatever the PC's would need in order to get things flowing, as well as whatever fits the situation at the time. It's really up to the NPC writer in the end who or what they want to portray anyway... as long as it helps the creator and those involved in the quest.

EDIT (Since someone caught this before me):


But that aside, I'll be bluntly honest in saying that it would be hard pressed to work. I can't imagine judging, writing, and NPCing all at once, as simply judging is a serious workload in and of itself. Although, I also think that if there are individuals willing to do it, it shall be done, so I guess my skepticism in that regard is flawed, or atleast, needless.

As for the various systems for how it works as proposed so far, I see these pros and cons:

"The Kool-Aid Man Style."
Pros: Surprising, forces players to adapt, creates a vibrant feel because now the quest is no longer controlled solely by the players, and it gives a chance for the world to respond in kind to the players in ways they never expected.
Cons: Can potentially ruin the players' scope and direction of the thread, also might generate jealousy over mods choosing someone else's thread instead of another's, and it would also require the mods to monitor many, many threads, looking for an opening at this post and that.

"Request System."
Pros: Writers are able to have carefully planned threads, they have a response from the "world," of Althanas itself, and they have the choice of the involvement of the mods.
Cons: Easy for writers to be burnt out over large workloads, potentially HUGE workloads, and reduces the "static," feel to the forum by very little. Also, there is the question as to whether or not it would be mandatory for the NPC writers to participate in ANY and ALL requests.

@ the bluntly honest thing: It would be damned near impossible to judge, write and NPC write at the same time... hell maybe Damon could have done it at the height of his impressiveness... but that's not what's necessarily being proposed. Writers wouldn't have to be moderators, in fact probably shouldn't be. Just people that the regional writers trusted, so that they could jump in with NPC's and help out. And I don't think the NPC writers should be limited or hired based on their skill with only one region... then there would be a shit ton of writers that can only write in one place. They should be able to know the lore and background of most, if not all, of the regions.

@ Kool-Aid Man Style: "Cons" this style wouldn't be used on just any thread. Just the ones that are designated by the creator as maybe "just for fun" or "no plot pre-determined"... allowing the NPC writer to just do what they will and think up stuff for the players to work off of, or in fact oppose. I know for myself that I've started threads without any direction, and I wish someone had come in and just been like... I"M THE ANTAGONIST NOW. Lol.

@ Request Style: "Cons" ... I couldn't even make sense of it. No offense, just trying to understand what any of that meant...

[AdventWings]

>_>
<_<

*Inserts an example (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?t=63) of NPC-writing that had been done*

...Not to promote myself or anything... But it's doable. Albiet a bit slow, which depends on the NPC writer's own ability and time constraints.

However, I mainly support using NPCs for planned or semi-planned stories. Indeed, a story could have no direction at all, but requesting an NPC writer to jump in and give a story also means setting the story's direction. Ultimately, it's a toss-up between going the Spontaneous Story Emergence or Pre-Planned Storyline routes.

I think both will work, preceeded by a request system. An NPC writer can still jump in Kool-Aid Man style upon request.

I'm going to withdraw my statement about the NPC writer being a Mod or Region Writer. So long that the person playing the NPC knows that region inside and out (or has been given permission and background information by the Region Writer), they would be fine to write as NPCs.

[Nautilus]

Nothing constructive to add, 'cept that I'm all for this grooviness. I particularly like the 'Kool-Aid Man' style option.

[Winterhair]

I'm going to withdraw my statement about the NPC writer being a Mod or Region Writer. So long that the person playing the NPC knows that region inside and out (or has been given permission and background information by the Region Writer), they would be fine to write as NPCs.

Exactly! It would certainly help things move along faster instead of placing the whole damned workload on the mod's laps.

[Artifex Felicis]

I've always wondered why someone with backing from the goverment wouldn't interfere when someone was running around loose doing some crazy thing or another actually. You'd have thought that they'd notice that or something.

Still, I'm here to voice it, if only to give Raven more praise for doing an awesome job in the bazaar.

Also, it might also be good just to have characters ICly work their way into goverment jobs. Letho, as marshal, could kool aid into a "evil" thread because thyey haven't been the quietist about it for example.

Or something. Just having NPCs is a problem that needs to be fixed overall.

Also, I would support many more mods if needed to do this right. Hell, I'd support whole new characters with this express purpose just in mind. Not exactly mods, but people who would meddle in PCs affairs because they aren't the only predator in the forest. This assumes that the people also know what they're doing as well.

Also, this thread needs moar lulz.

[Mithra Reborn]

Also, this thread needs moar lulz.

There were no lulz in the american revolution. this is basically a revolution that can completely change althanas for the better. so no, it doesn't.

But then they wouldn't be NPCs. If i took Darcy and made her captain of guard in Hooligan's Grotto or something, she would still be a PC technically

[Artifex Felicis]

Yes, but frankly it would work out for the same in the end. Some outside influence apart from the original quest goers who would have a heavy hand in the quest in some way. It doesn't really matter if it is the "PC" of the account, or some "NPC." The same basic premise will be kept.

Of course, that's more so a different story then straight NPCs, but I personally like it then just regular NPCs. For example, in the old University in Raiaera, a PC could become a teacher. As well, PCs could do something like a field trip for their class, or something like canoodle in some closet. The PC Teacher could find them because he was nearby and they weren't being quiet or something.

A rough example, but meh. I'm moving quick.

Sides, if you made her captain of the guard, then it would be awkward if she didn't do any work at all, no? I'm just saying moreso that it might be better to apply this to regular PCs that have earned the privilege.

[Taskmienster]

Yes, but frankly it would work out for the same in the end. Some outside influence apart from the original quest goers who would have a heavy hand in the quest in some way. It doesn't really matter if it is the "PC" of the account, or some "NPC." The same basic premise will be kept.

Of course, that's more so a different story then straight NPCs, but I personally like it then just regular NPCs. For example, in the old University in Raiaera, a PC could become a teacher. As well, PCs could do something like a field trip for their class, or something like canoodle in some closet. The PC Teacher could find them because he was nearby and they weren't being quiet or something.

A rough example, but meh. I'm moving quick.

Sides, if you made her captain of the guard, then it would be awkward if she didn't do any work at all, no? I'm just saying moreso that it might be better to apply this to regular PCs that have earned the privilege.


Umm... that just makes the problem of unactive people with positions that they shouldn't have. Take the armies of Alerar and Elfland. People were allowed to join those, but that turned out like shit.

[Artifex Felicis]

I only mean people that've proven that they can do it. So I don't mean someone who just joined the army of Raiera, but someone like Damon who worked his way up the ranks to a Captain I believe. I don't mean handing the keys to just anyone, if you think that's what I mean.

Still, it's moreso just an idea as I said. Something so that way it's also not just NPCs as well. Just so that way people can have jobs and be more active for them and whatnot. Though this is all still an idea.

[Visla Eraclaire]

The problem of using PCs for this is simple. A PC will serve the writer's needs. A PC was created for the writer and is limited. There are only so many PCs and many of the NPC positions that need to be taken would be overpowered or inappropriate, and certainly couldn't be registered at lvl 0 as PCs.

And so, the solution is NPC writers who invent NPCs for the situation spontaneously, or step into the shoes or relevant pre-fabricated NPCs. If a certain NPC showed up enough, I might draft an informal character sheet and even publish it with time, but that wouldn't be necessary for the system to work. The system would work best if the NPCs were just a flicker, a little something extra that added to the writing of someone else and gave it more flavor.

[Taskmienster]

Agreed completely!

Thank you for explaining what I was having trouble getting out, lol

[Visla Eraclaire]

No problem, it's partly my job.

It's good to see this idea has so much support. There really shouldn't be much to discuss for the leadership, I imagine.

[Visla Eraclaire]

What ever happened to this?

[AdventWings]

The Moderators are talking about it, Visla.

Implementation is still being discussed... >_>;

(Wish it were faster)

[Visla Eraclaire]

The idea was hatched out here. Whatever problems they're having can probably be solved out here, if they can stand mingling with the plebs... it must be so hard.

[Caden Law]

The idea was hatched out here. Whatever problems they're having can probably be solved out here, if they can stand mingling with the plebs... it must be so hard.
Speaking as a non-staffer, and a former Staffer who helped run a site with more than 500 people in it, Internet Democracy does not work.

Let the benevolent(ish) dictatorship do its thing :p

[Visla Eraclaire]

I didn't say vote. I said talk. There's a difference.

Anyone who has payed the slighted bit of attention should realize I don't advocate rule by the masses, but if it's an implementation discussion there's no reason for it to be a secret.

[Mithra Reborn]

I, for one, would like to know how discussions are going and what road blocks you guys are hitting/etc. I don't see why we can't at least get an update as to how things are going.

[Valanthe]

As the creator of my own little unoffical regions, I'm wondering, if hell were to somehow freeze over and someone that wasn't me decided a solo adventure in one of my regions might actually be a blast, would I then be my own region NPC writer? Would I get the same benefits the NPC writers of more established regions would get?

[Cyrus the virus]

Fuck, I'll do it for Fallien if only to get people to post there.


There's Fallien, the equivalent of the desert/middle east!

What the hell.

[Abomination]

I didn't say vote. I said talk. There's a difference.

Anyone who has payed the slighted bit of attention should realize I don't advocate rule by the masses, but if it's an implementation discussion there's no reason for it to be a secret.

You probably haven't heard about the implementation discussion because there is none.

[Breaker]

He's right... all we do is eat pizza and drink beer.

Mmmm...

[Visla Eraclaire]

Wow smarminess really makes me feel better about everything.

The replies are going swiftly downhill.

-First a moderator giving a vague answer, but presumably trying to help.
-Then someone sucking up to moderators by saying they shouldn't have to answer.
-Then someone contradicting the previous vague statement, most likely just to be a dick.
-Then a moderator joining the "just being a dick" bandwaggon.

Really fantastic work, everyone. Way to lower the bar for decency in a topic that a lot of people seemed to be behind until it went into amorphous secret implementation discussions.

[Valanthe]

As the creator of my own little unoffical regions, I'm wondering, if hell were to somehow freeze over and someone that wasn't me decided a solo adventure in one of my regions might actually be a blast, would I then be my own region NPC writer? Would I get the same benefits the NPC writers of more established regions would get?

Anyone?

[Visla Eraclaire]

I would find it unlikely, given my impression of how things work.

That's not to say it's a bad idea. I think if someone wants to play an adventure in a region that you have made up you should be able to "run" that adventure. And possibly, that's an answer to all of the implementation issues. NPC writers aren't fancy special people, they're just whoever wants to "run" a quest rather than being a player in it. The characters with which people run the quest gain xp as if they were participants, etc.

That's an easy implementation fix and it came from listening to someone's question. Wow, look how well that works.

[Godhand]

I can probably guess how this is going down.

Someone posted the thread in the moderator's forum, people generally agreed, someone posted "Well, how do we implement it?" and there's been dead silence for about two weeks since the super-mods everyone looks to for answers to these questions are all busy joyriding and fingerfucking their way through Europe.

But I was just on Who's Online and I saw Sighter is replying to a thread who's title I can't see, so I'm guessing it's finally getting sorted out.

[Caden Law]

-Then someone sucking up to moderators by saying they shouldn't have to answer.With all due respect: Bite me :p I was speaking from experience, nothing else.

Incidentally, your reaction to all of this -- along with everyone else's afterward -- simply validates my point. The moment anyone has a Significant Difference of Opinion from the Enlightened Majority, things go downhill pretty fast. At least when you keep it restricted to Staffers, nobody really gets butthurt (much) when the resident Evil Overlord jars everyone back on track and railroads some sort of compromise through.

For what it's worth, I do think it's a neat idea. But I also think our involvement with developing it is over until they open up some sort of topic inviting new NPCs to be written.

[Visla Eraclaire]

If you're looking for butthurt, go over to that furry topic again. I'm just trying to get things done, because I don't share the belief that those chosen as staffers are actually superior at generating ideas and implementations. The fact that this isn't implemented yet is evidence enough. I'm not calling them inept, I'm just saying that open discussion can be a good thing.

Most bills die in committee*

I'm going to subscribe to Godhand's theory of what's going on. Passing the buck is extremely common in any leadership of even modest size.

*Admittedly not a good argument, since most bills are also stupid.

[Caden Law]

If you're looking for butthurt, go over to that furry topic again. I'm just trying to get things done, because I don't share the belief that those chosen as staffers are actually superior at generating ideas and implementations. The fact that this isn't implemented yet is evidence enough. I'm not calling them inept, I'm just saying that open discussion can be a good thing.

Most bills die in committeeI'm not calling them superior either. But you're just trying to expand the committee :p If being left out bothers you, go become a Staffer. Otherwise just pester them to be a little bit quicker and leave it at that.

In point of fact, if we were all in on this right now, I could stall it indefinately on my lonesome by just doing what I'm doing now. Which is why I'll stop, as this has all proven my point well enough :D

[Visla Eraclaire]

My attempts have been successful, so I'm satisfied. Any effort to troll me is in vain.

[Ataraxis]

I'm surprised to find this misunderstanding here, but I'm sorry for not stopping it sooner. There's absolutely no dissension as to whether or not this will be implemented. Everyone loves the idea, member and mod (who are just members with acess to subforums on logistics, basically). It will be implemented.

Why not yet? As mentioned before, the mod forums discuss about details. The gist of the idea, it's all in
this thread. Also, quite often, when an idea is hurried into implementation, it has the tendency to die horribly quickly.

Right now, we're brainstorming candidates for the position of NPC writers, figuring out the all angles of the request system. There's also a question on including completed quests in the continuity of a Region. An idea for rewards has been to give the NPC writer the choice of transferring NPC XP/GP to any of his or her characters, which sounds rather adequate. There's also repartition of these NPCs among the regions on terms of current activity and the potential to raise these regions' activity. I probably omitted about 5 other points, but as you can see we're at a stage where all of the ideas in this thread are being arranged into an immortal beast of wanton destruction. If you want to give it laser-eyes, though...

But for the sake of further transparency (doesn't that sound bad?), I suggested an additional feature to this. Its important to know if people will actually want to use it, and your answers might help in hurrying this along.

NPC writers, right? They can jump into quests marked with a symbol meaning 'open to NPC writers' or focus their attentions on requests. That's all good, but it's still closer to passive than it is to dynamic; Now what if NPC writers were basically watered-down Mission Boards? There'd be a thread when they can describe vague outlines, one size-fits-all, that have minimal potential to disturb a story's flow.

Example: "Fallien: if you are crossing the desert, you may stumble upon X, who is a (a long-lost noble to a great family/the master of a famous Trader's Guild/one of the vowed enemies to the Jya). His/her/their destination will always be the same as your character's." This is clearly just a template, but I think it does well in showing how small the ripples in the plot will be by going with an NPC writer. Depending on how the quest turns out, the NPC writer would give IC rewards that I think should be included in the Region's Canon. You'd actually be getting IC connections that way, which would give you a lot more pull in later quests in the same area. among a multitute of other advantages - some of which we haven't thought of yet, so ideas on that?

Say you were writing a quest that could easily include something like the above? Would you make use of it? All the time? Once in a while?

[Valanthe]

There are few quests I want to keep Solos. I'm sure if I was able to somehow put up notice/keep NPC writers out of certain threads, I'd be okay with whatever, and would give NPC writers a vigorous workout.

[Ataraxis]

That has also already been included in the system. Those who request an NPC writer may via a Request Thread (either one in each region or a single one in the Recruiting Forums of the RPC), and those who want NPC writers to break through a wall and distribute colorful drinks only need to mark their doors with the blood of a lamb. Or an asterisk in their thread titles, we're still discussing. Anything else will be be immune to NPC intervention (as was agreed in this very thread, I believe).

So the info's all there in the last post, and you'd help us a lot by answering this question. Would you feel more compelled to use NPC writer services if there was a free-to-view list of canon important NPCs placed at strategic locations in each region that you could pick up/encounter on the way (if you're already in a quest and it just so happens that you're crossing an area where said NPC may be found). Of course, that list is meant to be flexible and to give you ideas on what a region has to offer.

[Saxon]

Would said NPC writers be creating these NPCs or would they be created by the Region writer?

[Ataraxis]

It would be a mix of both. The exact proportion depends on each Continent Writer, though a certain process of approval might be required in some cases. Either way, the NPC Writer will actively work with the Continent Writer to make region-relevant NPCs.

[Xos]

For me, to use NPC's, it's all be dictated by the story. Nothing's more important than the story, nothing. If the story dictated I take an NPC with me into the quest in order to be good, then so be it, if it demanded I pick one up at ye old NPC store right by Akbar's totally trustworthy weapons shop, then so be it. It it would help to have a "Hey Kool-aid" Moment, then let me clear away the stuff infront of the wall first.

Though, that aside, for me at least, it might make more sense, depending on circumstances and characters involved, to ICly get an NPC along the way more often than anything else.

[Sighter Tnailog]

Who was it that mentioned earlier the idea of letting anyone submit an NPC profile for a regional NPC, and then becoming that character's "NPC writer?" I have an idea to modify that somewhat.

My idea would be this...I create a number of NPCs for, say, the High Bard Council. I list them as so:

OTHER NPCS
1 -- Captain of Anebrilith
2 -- Bards of Turlin
2 -- Bards of Dagorlin
1 -- General

And then, people can, in another thread, submit a character profile for one of those people. Once the character is approved, that person becomes the writer for that specific NPC, and that position is removed from being available for creation. At that point, the NPC creator becomes sort of a "deputy" of the continent writer, and a resource the writer can draw on in the future. If that person disappears, the continent writer can write the NPC into early retirement or something, and repost the NPC as available to be claimed.

You could also put limits on it -- like, to claim the right to make this profile, you must have completed x number of threads in the region or be at x level. But it would take the onus of creating tons of NPCs -- NPCs that the continent writer might never intend to use -- off the player, and also encourage people to consider making up their own important continental NPCs. (You might also need to limit the number of important NPCs that any one player can claim.)

[Xos]

So, like, (using the Continent of Chronus as a Reference) (It's one of my regions, not as big as the established regions, but still open to whomever), I would create a list like so:

>>Lumos side:
Mary, Queen Celeste's head Lady in waiting
Albreth, Captain of the Guard
General Naughtworthy
Minister Turing
Ak'bar, merchant extrordinare

>>Noctum Side:
Gheff, General of The Shadow Army
The Executioner
Aichor, Merchant Extrodinare
Grundlor, High Priest of The Dark Gods

and each person interested would submit an NPC for whatever NPC they were intrested in, so long as they were Level five or higher and had RP'ed at least one thread in each side of Chronus with me?

(NPC positions are indeed open, as is Chronus for RP)

[Alabane]

I like both Atar's list of NPCs and Sighter's profile submissions for requested NPC writers. The kool-aid style I think would be better with spontaneously created NPCs like they use in the bazaar. Though that's just my preference.

[AdventWings]

EDIT: Ninj4'd!

Reply to Xos: On technicality, yes. That would be the way it's done.

But since you're the creator of the region itself (and it's not official canon as of yet) you're free to choose as you wish. We don't have control over regions you create, so to say. :)

[Xos]

Oh, someday they'll be canon, you'll see, I have that much confidence.

But it's nice to know I managed to understand the gist of what's going on behind the curtain.

[Sighter Tnailog]

Xos, what you posit is kind of like what I mean, I would just not even give names or anything, just the title and position to be created. But you could do it the way you wanted to do it.

[Xos]

Xos, what you posit is kind of like what I mean, I would just not even give names or anything, just the title and position to be created. But you could do it the way you wanted to do it.

ah, a position to be filled

Close personal adviser to the national leader
second in command of the military
NPC adventurer. (To assist in what most ranking officals can't help with and most intelligent criminals won't share.)
Criminal
Criminal Mastermind

[The Writing Writer]

Really enjoy Sighter's idea. If there's one thing I always had a knack for, it was creating characters. I can't even remember more than half of the characters I've ever thought up, made and forgotten about. If said characters had a position in the canon, I would be much more willing and interesting in using them.

Also, I enjoy the idea of making real, IC contacts. I like the idea of people in Althanas actually recognizing you. " Hey, that's John Everyman, the Captain of The Guard! " or " Nah, we can't go after him. He's the Captain of the Guard. Too risky. "

I can not wait for this to be implemented. Whether I have the privelage of being an NPC writer or the honor of writing with such an NPC, I will definately have more interest in Althanas. Brilliant idea Godhand, and many thanks to all who pitched in their ideas.

[Visla Eraclaire]

There was supposed to be another implementation of this going forward, but Sighter vanished before putting it into practice

[The Writing Writer]

That's a saddening turn of events. Hopefully this project won't fade away entirely. It could have very well made Althanas as grand and exciting as it was back in it's Tan years.

[Godhand]

Oh you pricks.

[Torin Reahkari]

This is the best idea anyone's ever had ever.

Someone start putting Dan-sized boots up people's asses to get this going.

[Saxon]

This thread needs to be drastically updated.

@The Staff: What's with the hush-hush for the last couple of months? Has this idea died out or what? Can we get an update on what's going on here?

Especially with Sighter, who was supposed to be fielding this sort of thing, some-what back, there's no excuse that the rest of us haven't been informed as to what's been established so far or even if the idea has been shelfed or not.

[Sighter Tnailog]

I am "back" in the sense that I sign on to Althanas maybe once every two days and consider whether or not to write another post in my new solo quest.

It's simply not how the moderator team works to hush up this "brilliant" idea and decide to shelve it or throw it in the wastebasket. Half the reason I left Althanas is because of all the assholes demanding that I spend irrational amounts of my time on "official regions NPCs" or cracking the whip on others to get them to do it.

Here's the deal: I am fielding nothing. I have no plans now or ever to engage in any sort of project to write official NPCs. If the idea interests you, go do it, and stop asking others to do it for you.

[Godhand]

Then what good are you?

[Taskmienster]

Saxon, please refrain from calling out staff members... it doesn't look well for you and just makes us mad.

What Sighter said is what's going on. Official Regional NPC's aren't necessary. If you want a mod to write an NPC out for you, ask them, and they'll do it if they can.

Oddly enough, if you haven't noticed, the staff is somewhat busy with the Tournament, as well as regular staff responsibilities. Oh, yeah, and most of us have college exams to worry about and deal with. So, if you'd like to do something with NPC's, do it, but don't expect us to jump up and do whatever you want to call us out for.


EDIT: Please close this thread and move it. Sighter just gave the last word on the project, no more need for discussion.
Thanks.

[Sighter Tnailog]

Plenty of good. Just tired of unwillingness on the part of others to equal my goodness.

To make myself plain in the language of cliche:

Grow a pair.
Take the bull by the horns.
Keep your nose to the grindstone.
Wipe the slate clean.

When I came to Althanas, I wrote my character as if he WAS a Regions NPC. And Raiaera came to be. But there's still plenty to explore in Raiaera. The Red Forest, the dwarves in the Emyn Naug and the northwest mountains, the Black Desert, the Obsidian Spire. Eluriand and other elven cities lie in ruins.

The argument I see here is that people want to be able to play in such a way that their stories intersect with the stories of the continent. My essential point is TOUGH. It's not the continent writer's job, nor should it be, to facilitate your character's debutant ball. If you don't like the current continental story, then say, "This story is stupid, I'm going to write my own, and if I have to shake the foundations of Althanas to the core to make it happen, I will." Just because Raiaera was largely empty when I came along doesn't mean I was free from the burden of shaking down accepted thinking. I had my share of creative disagreements with Santh and Elrundir and Redrick.

And most of the time, I won.

So stop wasting your time in this thread, sitting on your ass and waiting for some good mod or "licensed NPC writer" or "sub-administrative-liaison for the dispersal of regional storyline enhancements" to come save you. He's not coming, and if she does, you should probably consider it a sign that Althanas has failed to let you live into your potential. Instead, go DO IT and SHUT UP.

[Saxon]

Saxon, please refrain from calling out staff members... it doesn't look well for you and just makes us mad.

What Sighter said is what's going on. Official Regional NPC's aren't necessary. If you want a mod to write an NPC out for you, ask them, and they'll do it if they can.

Oddly enough, if you haven't noticed, the staff is somewhat busy with the Tournament, as well as regular staff responsibilities. Oh, yeah, and most of us have college exams to worry about and deal with. So, if you'd like to do something with NPC's, do it, but don't expect us to jump up and do whatever you want to call us out for.

Thanks.

The idea was to get the conversation going again, not to hit a beehive with a stick and piss you guys off. Perhaps I wasn't as tactful as I should have been and just came off as somebody who is patronizing, but eh. This idea has stewed for months and has been jerked around with promises of being instituted or at least talked about and then nothing was heard of for awhile now. I'm sincerely trying not to be an ass here, but hey, when you guys find time to do this, whenever that is, just know that are still people out there watching this damned thing.

Also, I think we're all under the misunderstanding that I or others who have tried to revive this thread again and again are trying to snap you up into action to get you to do something. This idea, as far as I understand, rallied a lot of support. And then some folks offered to pick it up and talk about it and see where it goes. And then nothing. Some of us just wanted to be informed on whether or not this idea has gone anywhere, at all.

@Sighter: Noted.

[Farmboy]

Just to add a quick thing before you move it.

Why don't you recruit more mods for Regional NPC writing? or better yet, get more mods and try to space the work evenly, doing half and half?

[Christoph]

Before things get out of hand, allow me to step in and make as close to an official statement as possible:

We have recently had a drastic shift in administration, with the long-standing administrators Letho, Sighter, and Ashiakin effectively being replaced by Bloodrose, Max Dirks, Tainted Bushido, and I over a fairly short period of time. At that point, it was decided that we had other, more pressing concerns and issues to work on, and thus the Regional NPC project was placed on the back burner for the time being. I will be talking things over with Bloodrose and the other region writers in the near future, once the Tournament of Champions is through the work-intensive preliminary phase. At that point, the issue of Regional NPCs will be at the top of our agenda. It may, however, change considerably before implementation.

Until then, if any players have suggestions for official Region NPCs that they would like to see, they may submit their idea to Bloodrose or I via PM. Remember, we’re only the staff. We can only do so much without the players pitching in.

[Godhand]

PSST The mods don't care about any idea that doesn't come out of their own incestuous little circle-jerking group pass it on.

Edit: Nevermind, if that's the excuse you have then I guess I'll go for it. I just don't buy this "Ugh, WE HAVE MORE THAN ENOUGH WORK ALREADY LEAVE US ALONE" bullshit. You found time to make the Tournament, after all.

[Sighter Tnailog]

There once was an angel named Fred
who wheedled and weaseled and pled
for a chance, pretty please
to fly off on a breeze
where others had once feared to tread.

[Godhand]

Yes, that's a good point.

[Sighter Tnailog]

I am quite immensely aware
of the gifts of my countenance fair
to this noble collection
of writing sensations
who without me just sit down and stare.

[Sighter Tnailog]

To limerick is quite bona fide
as a way of concealing a gibe
to confound and bother
our great alma mater:
the presider o'er all this great tribe.

[Godhand]

Hmm, indeed.

[Christoph]

Edit: Nevermind, if that's the excuse you have then I guess I'll go for it. I just don't buy this "Ugh, WE HAVE MORE THAN ENOUGH WORK ALREADY LEAVE US ALONE" bullshit. You found time to make the Tournament, after all.

Which obviously means that we must still have tons more time to work on a secondary project? I don't see you offering to pitch in and help. In the mean time, we have to prioritize like everyone else has to do in every other aspect of life, the universe, and everything ™. The site will survive without region NPCs for the time being. Again, anyone is more than welcome to do some of the leg work if they really want it to happen sooner.

[Arsène]

Sighter, we have the Creative Endeavors forum for a reason. Your mastery of the written word is noted, but this may not be the best place for it.

Christoph has said it best, and the staff is enacting this, however slowly.

I must ask this thread remain on topic. I know some blood is boiling, but let us remind ourselves that this idea is for the betterment of Althanas, and nothing bad should come of discussing it.

[Godhand]

Hey, I applied for modship. You guys don't want my help. You can do it all on your own.

Seriously though, as far as I can tell the Tournament idea came after the Region NPC idea and it seemed to get fast-tracked, so obviously there wasn't much more worry about how it'd fuck up your schedules.

The thing I'm getting from this thread most of all though, is that mods HATE their fucking jobs. You people don't like doing this. Why do you even bother?

[Sighter Tnailog]

The best space for rhythm and rhyme
is precisely in that place and time
where people come clanging
with boiling and banging
to battle in epic sublime.

[Godhand]

http://www.pspcrazy.com/images/news/image/FacePalm_picard.jpg

[Christoph]

Haha, I can't imagine why you weren't embraced with open arms by the staff. :P Incidentally, I particularly enjoy the work I do for this site, as thankless as it can be at times.

Also, to correct your factual error, the Tournament of Champions in various forms has been on the table for quite some time while we waited for the right time and group of mods to make it happen. When the opportunity arose, we took it.

[Taskmienster]

Yeah, can't even begin to wonder why.. And honestly, I love what I do on the site. If you haven't noticed, I've without a single complaint (and if you ask Christoph he'll tell you that I'm loving it) been working non stop for the past few days approving and judging for the site.

So, as it has been said. Its getting worked on, though I personally agree with Sighter that it's not a necessary thing for the mods of Althanas to focus on when the players can do it just as easily. I've seen people make the armies for Alerar, before they were mods, and it was accepted and became part of the region...

[Sighter Tnailog]

If I may express my essential point:

Coming up with a way to force moderators, writers, and players to roleplay continental NPCs in threads they normally would have little interest in is a quite excellent strategy. That is, if the strategy is to drive otherwise valuable players into a place where they no longer desire any part in the Althanas project -- a place where they are sick to gills of everything Althanas is.

The idea is good, in the abstract. But it fundamentally misses that real, honest-to-God flesh and blood people with dreams and visions of their own will be the ones who have to do it. It turns Althanas into a service that the moderators PROVIDE the players, when it should instead be a service in which both moderators and players are involved in providing to themselves.

Part of the problem with Althanas is increasing stratification between mod and player; players do one type of thing, moderators provide a service to the players. That is partially true, but partially false. Pursuing this policy would further that stratification and pose a significant danger to the future of Althanas as a viable player-moderator collaborative effort.

[Godhand]

That's not what I'm saying should happen. Jesus, did you even read the thread? It should be on a volunteer basis where people who aren't necessarily mods could write regional NPC's in a quest. It might sound tedious as fuck to you, and it probably be is, but it should at least be given a fucking chance to fail.

[Mathias]

By God, I'm amazed Cory can put up with Godhand's bullshit. I would've put the banhammer to him a long time ago.

But, in essence, it's become blatantly apparent that Godhand had an idea and the theory of it was accepted, but then it was thought about in actual application. The result was that it was unrealistic and counter-productive.

So instead of accepting that at least SOMETHING is happening to Althanas, and it's generating interest, Godhand must whine that it was not HIS proposal and thus throws a fit.

Good job.

[Godhand]

Oh no! I'm so mean! I should get banned because I hurt everybody's feelings! I'm pretty sure you've reported my posts like a million times. I think you would've gotten the message by now that nobody cares, you fucking baby.

Nevermind that I've made like seven or eight posts in this thread and it's already ten pages long. Yeah, I'm the only one that wants this to happen.

[Taskmienster]

Please Godhand, refrain from trolling and attacking other people here at the very least. If you have a problem with doing that, just say what you want to say, and leave other people out of it.

The same for you Mathias, you didn't even add anything to the current conversation. Please just keep it to yourself.

[Serilliant]

All posts from this point forward will be productive. No flaming, no insulting, no limericks, no complaints, no nothing but productivity. If you like the idea and want to see it work, keep discussing it and keep working on the specifics and the hows. If you want it to live, make it live. If you want to get on staff to get the project going, submit an application and indicate your interest. If you've been turned down before, resubmit. We regularly reconsider applicants who take the time to apply again. But do not argue for pages and pages about nothing and then expect something good to happen.

No one is going to be banned and no one's posts are going to be deleted. But anyone thinking about continuing this tired, idiotic slinging of personal insults instead of working productively will have their ability to post in this thread removed.

[Mathias]

No, I just think you're a complete asshole about EVERYthing. I think you should be banned because you have no sense of tact and no care for diplomacy, and you learn nothing from mediation. And that you think there's some sort of glory in being awarded the title of King Troll. It seems you've missed the whole god damn point of Althanas, which is the unification of writers. To share and to critique.

You kind of defeat the purpose when you've driven away two writers that I'VE seen, and fuck knows how many else. I'm a baby because I would like people to actually enjoy Althanas? Yeah, right.

And yeah, other people wanted this to happen. I thought it was a great idea. However, I see Madison's logic, and it makes sense. You don't NEED a moderator liaison and an official canon-decision maker and all that bullshit. You just need to get up and do it. Stop bitching about it and just write it out yourself.

[Christoph]

That's not what I'm saying should happen. Jesus, did you even read the thread? It should be on a volunteer basis where people who aren't necessarily mods could write regional NPC's in a quest. It might sound tedious as fuck to you, and it probably be is, but it should at least be given a fucking chance to fail.

That is what was being suggested, to a point. We're more than happy to let regular members volunteer their time to write up regional NPCs to their heart's content. Go for it. Create to your heart's content and PM to final products to Bloodrose or I. As I said before, we can't make Althanas worth without its members.

[Godhand]

Am I to understand, then, that people will be awarded standard experience points for only writing NPC's in another person's thread?

[Christoph]

Am I to understand, then, that people will be awarded standard experience points for only writing NPC's in another person's thread?

At this point in time, we don't intend to award EXP for submitting Regional NPC profiles. That should be something done out of love for the site and not to get rewards. It's not like we staffers get EXP for any of the work we do. :p As for writing as the NPCs, we have yet to devise how, exactly, it will end up working. That said, I imagine that any actual roleplaying on behalf of a Regional NPC would be awarded just like any roleplaying.

[Godhand]

I don't expect exp for writing profiles. But I do expect it for writing NPC's themselves.

Oh, and to all the (DELETED BY SERILLIANT) out there whining about how, "Why don't you do it yourself! OMG!" This is why. The system isn't even defined yet; there's nothing to be gained, unless some good Samaritan wants to do something for nothing.

[Sid]

Is there going to a be an official method for submitting NPC profiles, such as in the character registration with something like NPC in the thread name? Will members be restricted from playing NPCs more powerful than their level, such as the bladesingers in Raiaria? What criteria need to be met to be a NPC player?

Also, I vote for a return of limericks.

[Christoph]

Until I am able to sit down with Bloodrose and work things out in detail, I won't be able to say for sure. That will hopefully happen soon, though.

[Sid]

Back onto the submitting NPC profiles, does that mean that spontaneously creating regional NPCs for a thread is off the table?

[Sighter Tnailog]

Hopefully not, and if it were off the table, I would highly advise civil disobedience.

[Christoph]

Sid: Good lord, of course not. Official Regional NPCs would be in no way designed to restrict player freedoms. It would be implimented as a way to enhance the depth of our threads, but only if we want. You could continue to roleplay the way you have been, making up NPCs as you see fit. Official Regional NPCs are just a bonus.

[Sid]

That's not what I meant.

Players normally make NPCs for whatever in their stories, but I was asking if someone acting as a NPC Player (not writing with their character at all), would only be using submitted NPC profiles or would they still be able to Kool-Aid guy break into threads with an on-the-spot created NPC?

[Christoph]

As I've said several times, much has yet to be decided. The way it's looking right now, though, is that Official Region NPCs would only appear in threads where requested/allowed by the players in said thread. In such instances where the Regional NPC is wanted, chances are that it will be limited to "Official" NPCs (though we would likely be working with whoever is in charge of the NPCs for a given region to come up with a comprehensive roster). That said, it's all still up in the air, and I highly doubt that I will have any more coherent answers for the time being.

[Kupo!]

In all honesty the idea can be fleshed out...it's not to far fetched we just need to except the fact that *GASP* Godhand showed care for a site that I frankly agree with is not looking as good as it used to. But me and a few mods came up with a simple idea, tht along with this can actually be fucking amazing. This idea can work, and I'll show you how when I get more work done on fleshing it out.

[Sighter Tnailog]

Godhand cares for Althanas much more than the crusty old codger lets on.

And I do love a good "I'll let you know about this great idea when I'm done fleshing it out." I'm always good for nine or ten of those.