Castus Malum Workshop

[Duffy]

Aiko has requested a workshop judgement, (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?t=20230) and this will serve as a trail run for the reworking of the idea. Please give the thread respect, and comment in an appropriate and considered manner, off topic or abusive (http://althanas.com/world/showthread.php?t=19914) messages will be amended, and you will look like a spoon!

At the end of the workshop (two week period), light judgement/scores will be awarded, based on feedback.

[Amaril Torrun]

Much of your description of the setting sounds very much like a textbook account though there are signs of brilliance as well.

"It seemed made of metal, yet this metal was monsterous, for it twisted and writhed like a plague of living insects, each endlessly crawling over the other."

A lot of times I read through a block of pure setting without absorbing any of it. The sentence above however makes the gate unforgettable.

I'll come back to this thread once it gathers a few more replies from those I know are reading your thread.

[Amaril Torrun]

This was very much a character growth oriented story, though I wish it could have evoked a little more of an emotional response from me. It is very clear that Calbrena's transition to a truly evil character was a tough experience, but it was portrayed in a very matter of fact manner. Even during the scene where she was broken down both mentallly and literally taken apart by her past victims, feeling was an absent factor when it couldn't afford to be so.

EDIT: On the discussion of persona, Azash was a good, viable secondary character. The stress he was expressing throughout the thread was believeable and made the seriousness of turning truly evil all the more real.

[Atzar]

Hey. I'm three posts deep right now, and I'll be reading it over the next day or two - doesn't sound like I'll have much to do this weekend. I'm just going to kinda comment as I go.

In terms of mechanics, your descriptions get a bit repetitive. If at all possible, try to avoid repeating words in any given paragraph. For instance:


They tried hallways randomly, with no success, each hallway wrapped around Phantaria, and came back to another spot, but not one of them that they tried so far lead to that ledge. They tried systematically, going for hallways that appeared to go up, if they were below it, and hallways that appeared to go down if they were above it. This didn't work either. Finally, they were on the opposite side of the ledge, and found a hallway that went straight. They followed it up, down, left, right, it curved round and around going back on itself, and came out on the very ledge they wanted. Both sighed, then Calbrena glided the short distance to the platform, and Azash made an ice bridge for himself to walk on.

In this paragraph, you use the word 'ledge' three times to my count, and the word 'hallway' six. If at all possible, try to use different words for them - ledge could instead be 'precipice' or 'edge', and hallway could be 'corridor' or 'passage'. If you can't think of words you haven't used, then try to come up with a new way to arrange the paragraph.

Also, you do a pretty good job overall of describing the surroundings, but I don't really have much of an idea what your characters look like. You told me that Calbrena (I like the name, by the way) thinks she's beautiful, and she has black hair, red skin and wings. What else? Is she tall or short? Thin or full-bodied? What color are her eyes? Aside from the skin color and wings, does she otherwise look human? There are all sorts of details that you could give me that would make her really come to life in my mind. Same thing with Azash - all I really know about him is that he's blue.

There's some stuff to consider for now. I'll probably post again tomorrow. So far, though, it's an entertaining read - the give-and-take between Calbrena and Azash is cute and endearing, even if it doesn't strike me as particularly demonlike.

[Amaril Torrun]

To add to Atzar's comment about not knowing what the characters look like, there was a point in you thread where you mentioned Calbrena falling backward on her tail. I was like, "What, she has a tail?" It can really throw your readers off when they have to develop their own image of a character at the beginning of a story, only to see that image change drastically later on.

[Ulysses]

Hello! I just read your solo from start to finish, and it was an interesting read. Hopefully my feedback is at least a little bit useful, I don’t know, but I’d like to give this workshop thing a shot. I’d like to say first of all that I quite liked your story, it definitely kept my interest the whole time, and your basic knowledge of writing is very solid. There are a few things I noticed that I think you could improve upon, though. Okay, diving right in, then!

The first thing I noticed was that your explanation of names and people was somewhat inconsistent, at least at the beginning. While you provided ample explanation of Calbrena’s family, the Castus Malum itself, and why she was going there…some things seemed missing. Azash, for instance, just sort of came out of nowhere. I started reading the second post and then was just sort of confused, because you never really explained who he was. It became clear pretty quickly that he was her boyfriend/love interest, but just one sentence explicitly stating that at the beginning might have been better. Her motivations for going on this quest also seemed a bit weak. I suppose it’s just the typical ‘I-want-to-be-more-powerful’ thing, which is OK, that works, but it still seemed a bit too easy. Her dad was just like “yo, chica, go on this quest into the pit of ultimate evil!” and she was like “okie dokie, dad.” Maybe that was just me.

The pacing of the story was a bit slow at times, honestly. You did maintain my interest purely by the exoticness of the situations and characters, but sometimes the descriptions of things dragged on a bit. A few short, effective sentences (preferably metaphors or analogies) can just as well describe something as a whole paragraph of detailed description. The paragraph that Atzar Kellon noted above was a good example of this, and also of the way you sometimes reuse words. On top of that, the lengthy lectures on the meaning of good and evil were interesting, but also sometimes a bit…slow.

On the note of Atzar’s review, he makes a good point about you not really describing the way the characters look. I didn’t feel like I had a very good image of Calbrena…and Azash or the Scion? Not at all.

Your dialogue was solid, but I noticed that you had a bit of a tendency towards monologues. The father at the beginning, then later the Scion, and Calbrena herself all have large paragraphs of text that read like mini-speeches sometimes. That’s alright on occasion—particularly for the characters of her father and the Scion (who both are kind of giving speeches and lecturing) but that’s not how a real conversation flows, and it does seem a bit awkward.

I thought that the strongest (and probably the only sympathetic) character in the whole piece was Azash, which is probably demonstrated by the fact that his death made me mildly sad. It would have provoked more of an emotional reaction if I hadn’t predicting it since early on in the thread, but still. He just seemed like a nice guy. Calbrena, on the other hand…I don’t know. She didn’t seem evil at all, which confused me at first (I thought she was supposed to be!) but she didn’t really seem good either. I hate to say this, but she just came off as a bit of a brat. Not evil, but just sort of a whiny teenager who doesn’t really care about other people but is too much of a wimp to be genuinely evil. She seemed a bit like one of the villains in those high school drama books (my sister reads those…can’t say I really get them, I must be one of the only teenage girls who would rather read Stephen King than Stephanie Meyer, but that’s a sidenote), the preppy obnoxious rich-girl out to get the poor artsy protagonists. She wasn’t very likeable. Now, she wasn’t supposed to be likeable, but I think in a different sort of way. The main point of the thread was character development, that was clear, and she seemed to get progressively more evil…kind of. I was still getting a bit of that whiny teenager vibe at the end though.

On a semi-related note: did she intentionally kill Azash? I didn’t think that was really clear. She just shoves him, and then suddenly he’s dying, and I was like huh? I think it’s much more effective if she intentionally killed him, because that would be the only genuinely evil thing she did in the whole thread.

Ah…that reminds me. The whole theme/subject of good and evil and chaotic and lawful. I’ll go into that in a bit, but I’d like to look for a bit at your writing mechanics first.

Your writing was solid, and it was good, but it wasn’t really memorable except for a few places. Your descriptions were very matter-of-fact, and there wasn’t an awful lot of metaphor/simile or advanced techniques used (and when they were used, they weren’t very memorable). I would recommend that you scatter your writing with a bit more of that.

The one part of this thread that genuinely scared/reviled me (in a good way!) was the sixth post. The part where the Scion is describing the insect torture…holy cow. I don’t know, maybe it’s just because I hate and am terrified of insects, but that was NASTY. In an awesome way! I seriously leaned away from my computer and was like…gah.


The worst part comes when you can see an insect before your eyes, only to slowly move your hand to wipe it away and realize it is in fact, inside your eye.

My reaction: AHH SWEET JESUS THAT IS CREEPY.

Anyway, that part was really good, and genuinely horrifying. A+ in that section, I have to say. It was kind of a weird little sidenote, though. You spent all this time describing it, but then didn’t really use it. I thought that the end of the sixth post, where Calbrena herself is being tortured, could have been much more powerful and effective if you went into more detail. I don’t know, maybe I’m just a sucker for horror and that wasn’t really what you were going for, but I thought that scene had a lot of potential. You didn’t really spend a lot of time describing it, though—only a paragraph or two talking about her being tortured, and not in very detailed or scary language. I dunno, that was good but it could have been great.

As for typos and grammar and stuff like that, that was good. I noticed a few typos and spelling mistakes and stuff, but not very many, and I didn’t think it distracted from the thread or anything. Going back and being just a little bit more careful with proofreading might be beneficial, but I think that’s an area you’re very strong with.

I said before, and I hold my position, this is a solid piece. Some parts need the pacing to be changed, and more “advanced” technique would be good, but the writing is, in my opinion, very solid. It was definitely interesting, and as a whole I liked it a lot. I’m sorry; I hope I haven’t been too involved in my criticism thus far? I don’t know if this is too long or too harsh or something. I’m just trying to write down all my impressions, though, and as I said before, I hope it’s helpful.

Finally what I’d like to talk about is: the moral of the thread. Good and Evil and Sympathy for the Devil and all that rock’n’roll.

I’m personally not a big fan of the good/evil lawful/chaotic spectrum. Actually, scratch that, I dislike it quite a bit. I think those are false dichotomies, and also they just seem…overused? I don’t know, I think it detracted a bit from the message of the thread that you were using those words. I was quite into it by the end of the story, but then you started talking about Chaotic Good and Lawful Evil and I was just not that into that. It could have been more effective if you kept the moral of the story that you were trying to get across (which was, I think: evil is self-interest and chaos, good is self-sacrifice and law) without using those specific words. Of course, that’s not really a moral I agree with either (I'm a shades of gray kinda girl), so I guess there was a bit of dissonance with me, but even besides that I think it would have been more effective if you weren’t using the D&D terms.

This is all of course my personal opinion, and you can take or ignore any of my advice that you like. I enjoyed reading and thinking about your thread a lot, and this whole Workshop Judgment seems like a lot of fun to me. I quite like reading other people’s writing and then thinking about it, and I just hope I’m being helpful and not just blathering on. This did end up being a bit long looking back on it...hmm.

Anyway, that’s all I have to say. I’ll keep an eye on this thread for other people’s reviews, and if I think of anything I’ll post again, but I think that’s everything! :D

[Aiko]

I don't know if it's allowed or not, (having never seen anything to either effect), but I'd like to mention that reviews so far tend to agree with something I've noticed, in that describing things is my greatest weakness. I know what she looks like, I created her and all the other characters/places. Thing is, that's just exactly what trips me up. So when I'm reading her descriptions, I never notice missing details, because I subconsciously fill in the blanks without writing it down. I am trying to work on that, but as with all things, it takes time, effort, and patience.

As for the grammar and spelling mistakes, I'd like to point out that I'm using Open Office.org, and it doesn't seem to be as effective as Word, not that I myself am entirely free of blame, merely an observation of difference between the two programs. If someone knows of an add on that could make Open Office better, by all means, let me know about it.

Next, I don't mean to reuse words time and again, but in an effort to try and keep it simple for most people to understand, I find I run out of words.

Finally, I'm glad N'jal's Insect Swarm got to someone. Not all tortures were for the benefit of the characters, but most were researched and based off of real existing tortures, such as the Akashiman Iron Maiden, which was borrowed from the Chinese Iron Maiden. (Possibly Japanese, I don't remember anymore) The insect swarm/eviscerator, those were all me.

One last point, I'm afraid I might've missed the mark in the philosophical discussion on the natures of good and evil, the point was, they don't exist, regardless of what definitions you go by, someone either in real life, or in fiction, can come along and use those same definitions in a different way. Good can be just as self-serving as Evil, and Evil can be just as self-sacrificing as good, which means that since there are no static definitions, they are truly just made up devices for the benefit of society. At least, that's what she now believes.

[Duffy]

Hello Aiko.

You are of course more than welcome to counter-point or explain your motivations or style in a workshop judgement discussion. Much of the time, a judge's interpretation of a thread can lead to the old favourite, 'lost in translation,' where you know what you mean, but we don't. Normally, this would effect clarity, but I strongly feel that if something works in your mind and has a colloquial or unconventional meaning, you should be allowed to say so.

I've been marked down personally for using English terms (as in England English) and I've done the same in the past for others, so in the future, if you feel that a concept being discussed might translate badly, feel free to add it to the submission thread, or use simple and effective footnotes to clarify your intentions.

On a plus note, I've read through the thread, and will get a more comprehensive run down and some notes to you shortly - I'm glad this is garnering interest and you're keen to be our guinea pig, keep it up!

[Ulysses]

Hm, I see what you mean, and that makes sense. It's something that I struggle with too, although for me I think it's more with setting. I can see it well in my head, so remembering what to describe and what not to describe is difficult. And honestly you're not bad at it, I'm sure you're better than I am, it's just something to keep in the back of your mind.

I've used Open Office and Word both, and I do know what you mean there. Word is certainly better. However, Word still isn't that great. You really can't solely depend on the spellcheck in those sorts of programs-computers are just stupid sometimes. Definitely better to read it over on your own in addition to your spellchecker. However, as I said in my review, there really weren't that many typos or mistakes, it was pretty much fine.

Hm, that's interesting indeed. Jeez, you thought of that whole insect thing on your own? ...yikes. Yeah I thought that was pretty scary indeed, and it's impressive that you thought of and described that. I went back and read that part again and it still creeps me out.

Interesting...that's not really quite what I took out of it, but looking back on it I suppose that was the case. I don't know, it did just seem a bit vague? For a story centered around the meaning of good and evil, I don't think there ever was a really distinctive conclusion about the meaning of those words. Maybe that's what you were going for, though, if you wanted to blur the lines between the two.

I'd definitely be interested in reading other things you write in the future, or if you ever wanted to do a thread with me that would be cool. ^^ It was a good read.

[Aiko]

We must all reach our own conclusion on what Good and Evil truly are. Ultimately, that was one of my goals. The other was to establish Calbrena's training in Castus Malum for future stories.

I just hope I get that medallion, so I don't have to keep traipsing through Phantaria back and forth to get to Castus Malum. I mean it's such an innocent spoil I don't see anything going wrong with it, but still.

[Amaril Torrun]

Amaril earns 50 gold and 125 experience.

Atzar earns 50 gold and 75 experience.

Ulysses is the top contributor and earns 150 gold and 25 experience.

[Amaril Torrun]

Story: 16 / 30

Character: 13 / 30

Writing Style: 16 / 30

Wild Card: 5 / 10


Total Score: 50

Aiko earns 472 experience and 100 gold.

Spoil Requested: "Amulet of Castus Malum: This amulet alters and changes it self over time to reflect Calbrena's status with Castus Malum. Currently it is pure gold, and has the mark of a priestess on it, indicating Calbrena as a priestess of evil. It's sole ability is to open a gateway to and from Castus Malum, an ability only Calbrena can activate. This ability allows Calbrena to go to and from Castus Malum at will, without having to go through Phantaria. Once a gateway is opened, any number of people can go through it until either Calbrena, The Scion of Evil, a member of The Dark Pantheon, or Castus Malum itself closes the gateway."


This Amulet can only be used by the PC Calbrena and the named NPCs. The amulet can only be used during moments of calm and takes a few minutes for the gateway to open. In other words, it can't be used during battles. Use of this item outside of purely storytelling purposes will require RoG approval at your next update. If in a thread with other participants, they must approve of the use of this as well, until otherwise noted in your next update. I'll be happy to clarify any of this further with you through PMs.

[Esmerelda]

Aiko, different account, obviously.

I think I may have poorly worded the spoil request, or it was misunderstood.

It isn't the amulet itself the NPC's named can use, it is the gateway they can close. Somewhat akin to leaving the front door to your house open and your roomate closing it before that annoying person next door comes over.

Regardless, it all works out for the intent I had in mind for it. Honestly never thought of using it in battle, like you said, it's for story telling purposes.

To sum it all up, thank you, and I think I'll use the workshop more often than I do any other form of judgment.

[Amaril Torrun]

Yeah, that was basically just the formality of saying "Don't Powergame!" You've been around the block long enough to know how to handle yourself, so I'm not too worried.