Vestagar Incubo

[Shadai]

Name: Vestagar Incubo
Age: 20
Race: Human
Hair Color: Black
Eye Color: Gray
Height: 5'11”
Weight: 175


Occupation: So you want to know about Vestagar eh? Well why don't you ask him yourself. He set up shop just down the street there. Some kind of “finder of lost goods” and whatnot. Calls himself a “Detective” whatever that is.

Personality: Whats he like? He's a wiseass with a penchant for asking all sorts of the wrong people the wrong questions. Gets in trouble seemingly all the time. Never seems too worse for wear though. Smart as a whip too. I saw him one time ask several mob fellows openly about their business. Again, not particularly bright about who he asks those damn questions but he's either got brass balls or a bad case of the crazies. They were all sorts of threatening and he didn't even blink. Like he knew something they didn't.

Appearance: Oh you'll know when you see him. Those flint colored eyes see right through you. And he's always wearing that long black coat that hangs to his knees. The guy that asks a ton of unnecessary questions? Ya, that'll be him.

History: Word on the street was Vestagar used to be a shady character. Might be where he gets his moxie. No one knows who or why though. I heard it he fell out with one of the powerful local crime lords. The fact that he's still alive is a credit to his character. But if I know those guys, they won't let him keep breathing air if'in he's done something as bad as people keep whispering about. He seems to have given up on that life however. Hear he's a right and proper wizard now. Imagine that. (Author's Note: Will be revealed through RP)

Skills:

Shady Past – Vestagar didn't always run with the right crowd. As such, he's picked a few things up. These are in the form of skills such as sneak attacks, lockpicking, picking pockets (sleight of hand), and stealth. Murder was not really his forte so he's below average at sneak attacks. However, he was a man who could get things done, so he's average at picking pockets and stealth. Vestagar had an uncanny ability to get into places he was not supposed to be, so he is above average at lockpicking. He can also gather information with the best thieves around. He knows all kinds of contacts from his past... however is not likely to use them due to certain... disagreements with his former employer. Never underestimate how fast word travels in shady organizations.

Intelligence – Vestagar is way above average in this department. He can often think his way out of problems before they become problems. Its almost an ability to see the opponents moves before he makes them. A skill that has certainly come in use in his previous and current employment.

Calm under fire – Vestagar for all his training had retained a certain calm in the most dangerous of situations, never truly losing his cool. After all, panic, fear and doubt all block the rational thoughts of the mind, Vestagar's true weapon.

Wiseass – This is really more of a double edged sword. Vestagar usually says whatever comes to mind, and he has a knack for pushing the wrong buttons, more often then not. While sometimes this works to his advantage such as allowing some insight into his opponent, more often then not it ends up in danger and chances for great bodily harm.

Spells and Casting – Vestagar has received basic training as a wizard. He can't do anything flashy as of yet, he is basically limited to knowing how to prepare a casting circle and infuse it with will, and use of his bracer (outlined below).

Equipment:

Black Trenchcoat – standard equipment. No, it doesn't do anything special but gives him +1 to detective coolness.

Daggers – Basic average daggers, nothing to see here either. He usually carries a few on him, never know when things might get ugly. He is not the greatest fighter, and is below average in skill use.

Bracer – Just a simple metal bracer that is carefully transcribed with runes. By focusing his will he can create a barrier in front of him capable of withstanding any physical or magical attacks. He can angle the barrier in any form he wishes to better withstand or deflect attacks. This is not without drawbacks, however. Being tied to his will, he can only use it a limited number of times. Furthermore, just because it stops the attack from harming him, does not mean it stops the force involved. Also the bracer being a beginning item only can take so much punishment before it shatters, so Vestagar is careful to not overuse such an important item.

[Taskmienster]

Shady Past :: Murder was not really his forte so he's below average at sneak attacks. However, he was a man who could get things done, so he's above average at lockpicking, picking pockets, slight of hand and hide/move silently.

I'd like if you could make all of that except one thing below average, the other skill can be above average.


Bracer :: The barrier that you can create cannot, at this time, be able to "withstand any physical or magical attack." At this level, you can use it to create a barrier that can withstand a single attack from a weak spell or lower leveled attack. You shouldn't be able to use it within five minutes, or 4 turns, after the shield is destroyed.

[Shadai]

Shady Past :: Murder was not really his forte so he's below average at sneak attacks. However, he was a man who could get things done, so he's above average at lockpicking, picking pockets, slight of hand and hide/move silently.

I'd like if you could make all of that except one thing below average, the other skill can be above average.


Bracer :: The barrier that you can create cannot, at this time, be able to "withstand any physical or magical attack." At this level, you can use it to create a barrier that can withstand a single attack from a weak spell or lower leveled attack. You shouldn't be able to use it within five minutes, or 4 turns, after the shield is destroyed.


No.

I waited three days for a response and this was what I finally get.

There is nothing here that is overpowered for combat in the slightest. The skills are for pure RP only, I'm wiling to drop them down to AVERAGE while keeping the Sneak Attack BELOW AVERAGE. He was a thief. He's not going to be below average for basic thief skills. Besides, none of those skills help in combat except Hide/Move Silently and Sneak Attack, and (as I stated before) BELOW AVERAGE at the latter.

The shield was an error in my choice of wording. Here's how it works. He channels his will (a very physically draining thing) into the bracer, the bracer springs to life. While he continues to channel, the shield is in place. The longer he channels, the more it takes out of him; usually he will only bring it up once to block one attack but I want the option to "hold" the shield if ever it becomes necessary as per the magic rules. It will block any attack but not the force. If someone throws an anvil at him at speed, the shield will block it BUT not the force involved so expect him to move an equal distance backward according to physics. Because its so draining, he can only use it a few times a fight, any more and he risks being too weak to do much else and/or the bracer melting off his wrist. How fast the bracer melts depends entirely on what he's trying to block. Higher Level, harder force attacks will degrade it faster then a few darts.

There is nothing here really that is any more powerful then some of the other characters have gotten approved with. Intelligence and Calm Under Fire aren't really skills, its just more information on how I play the character. They don't really DO anything. He's a basic wizard without any flashy spells, can only use the one item and he has a drawback in Wiseass. Perhaps you can see why I'm bristling about the skills.

[Taskmienster]

Skills:
Sneak Attack : below average
Lockpicking : above average
Picking pockets : above average
Hiding : above average
Sneaking : above average

No skill listed with a dagger either.

Magic doesn’t have any actual spells listed, so if you have spells please list those. If there isn’t any magic other than what the bracer does that’s still another skill/ability.

The bracer allows you to create a spell to block attacks, and as you made an example of, an anvil thrown at speed shouldn’t be able to be blocked by a level 0 character. The potential for power-gaming is there, but I wasn’t going to dock too heavily on it. However, if the ability for the bracer creates such a use then I’m looking at a piece of equipment that can potentially just be left out and can be used to avoid attacks by other level 0 characters that makes other people nearly impossible to do anything against you. I’m not going to bother putting any limits on it so long as you are careful with its use. A judge will worry about what will be power-gaming and such when it’s used in a thread.

Daggers : you can have three at this time, but they should be iron or steel.

So, when compared to other profiles and how they are handled, you can have one of the skills at above average, one at average, and one below. That’s how profiles are normally handled. I’m somewhat lenient and allow a little bit of leeway for skills and stuff because I don’t want to destroy a characters abilities.

However, I’m going to have to ask that only one skill be above average, two average, and the rest below average. That’s because you have skill abilities and a spell.

[Godhand]

Don't do that.

God, this is one of my big grievances with the current approval system: the docking of purely storyline abilities. It's a pointless fucking albatross that makes new writers leave and for good reason. He's not going to fucking lockpick in the middle of a fight, and even if he was what would it matter?

"I summon a magical door! PICK IT IF YOU CAN!"

No. I get it if it's to stop someone from playing superman, those people wanting to do that with a level zero traditionally aren't worth much anyway...But this "No skills at expert level" shit has to stop. If someone wants to write as a non-combat character who's only skill is that they're a master at playing the violin, it would get changed to "above average" and that is inexcusably fucking stupid and harmful to the influx of new characters.

Bottom line, it's time the RoG get it's boot off new players' necks.

[Taskmienster]

As a rule, we don't delete posts or edit them by a member... but you've been around long enough to know better than to post in another person's RoG. Unless this is an alt of yours and you'd like to have an input about it, don't post in the RoG thread of another person. If it is your alt, then by all means say so, please.

[Shadai]

Let's lump the skills together so its easier for you to approve.

Hmmm.... Pick Pockets and slight of hand are the same thing really (I already took the liberty of combining these two). So is hide and move silently... let's call it Stealth. Lockpicking is really its own ability and so is Sneak Attack. So for Skills it looks like this so far:

Pick Pockets: Above Average
Stealth: Above Average
Lockpicking: Above Average
Sneak Attack: Below Average

Daggers: Below Average

Drawback: Wiseass (which, considering how I intend to play the character is a bigger drawback then I think you realize at this moment)

Magic: Nothing but a casting circle (which at the moment does nothing) and use of the bracer. The bracer itself is NOT magical, it is merely a focus to extend his will. Similarly to a wand used by a wizard to focus fire or become more accurate with his magic missiles. But being a beginning wizard his "use" of the bracer is severely limited. I intend to be fair in its use, it can block any attack but should I overuse or misuse the mod in charge of the thread can lower my point total as you have agreed (thank you).

Compare that to any character. Where is the overpower? I can do neat thieving abilities but when it comes to straight combat I'm pretty much a lightweight. Thus the shield to stop insta-gib attacks so my character can get a chance to escape or at the very least live to see another day.

I guess it comes down to what we are comparing the skills to. And this applies to all new characters. What is average? Who are we comparing it to? What is the baseline? A character like Godhand? Or a level 0 peasant with a dull iron pitchfork and pension for picking his nose? A similar class, race and spec?

For that matter, is there a sliding scale? And what are those levels? It starts and below average, the rises up through average, above average, excellent, superior, best in class, godlike, godhand? And again, the issue of who or what we are comparing this to becomes an issue.

Furthermore, what constitutes a skill? Would speaking a language other then common become a skill expenditure? How about a hobby? Tradeskill? Where does the madness stop?

The creation guidlines are very clear that this site is not to "stifle creativity" but I submit by putting comparative levels and limits that is exactly what is being done. I get that the idea is to keep them all around the same combat level. That is what I intended to do, as well as the site guildlines can offer. I'm very weak at combat as Godhand was gracious enough to see and point out. Pickpocket and Lockpicking are for the most part not going to help me when Godhand is threatening me with great bodily harm. The shield will probably block only one attack before melting off my wrist and at that point I have to hope that I'm faster then the other guy he may or may not be after.

Lets play the comparative game. On one side, we have Vestagar, as I have envisioned him. On the other, we have Bob, the nosepicking level 0 peasant with an iron pitchfork. Since Bob is not a thief, I think its safe to assume that Vestagar should be spades in thieving skills such as lockpicking, picking pockets and stealth. However, Bob is pretty unassuming, so we can say that he is better at sneak attacks cause you never know when he's gonna take his finger out of his nose and slam that pitchfork into the side of your head; Besides, murder isn't Vestagar's thing. Bob clearly is going to be above average with his iron pitchfork, Vestagar is lucky if he knows what end to point at the bad guy. Bob probably hunts when he's not hunting for boogers, so he's probably got the edge in daggers too. So this isn't a bad comparison if you don't take into account that you are comparing an apple to an orange. Vestagar is clearly too powerful to be on Bob's level. He has all those thieving skills!

On the other side of the coin, we have Drac the Vampire Thief. There is nothing overpowered about vampires is there? Enhanced speed, immortal, impulsive need to use sunblock... Vestagar would be lucky to last longer then 3 seconds in Drac's world.

I'm not trying to break the system. I'm not trying to force in something that is overpowered. I'm pointing out the flaw that exists in the character creation system. You can't go by detailed rules and claim creative freedom. One simply does not exist when the other is present. But when someone comes around and stretches the limits of that creative freedom, you cannot point to non-existant rules and rhetoric and expect him not to be disappointed.

If I have no choice I will acquiescence. However, I would like to make my point and have it understood. I'm not overpowered in a combat sense. My understanding was that was what the RoG was for, to make sure everyone stayed on the same level for combat purposes; Combat that makes up 70% of this site. I simply chose to lower my effective combat rating to boost my RP skills. It was a tradeoff in my mind that made perfect, fair sense.

[Taskmienster]

The difference in abilities and why I asked them to be put the way I asked is because that's how the RoG process is done. I'm not going to argue about what makes average to one person not average to another... because it's the same thing to me. Nor will I argue about percentages of the site that battle compared to quest, because that doesn't matter to me. What I'm working with is that I treat all these profiles the same, and ask for limits put on all skills and abilities...

Changes that I'd like you to make.

Pick Pockets: Stealth: Lockpicking: Sneak Attack: Daggers:

One above, two average, the others below.


On a side note



I'm pointing out the flaw that exists in the character creation system. You can't go by detailed rules and claim creative freedom. One simply does not exist when the other is present. But when someone comes around and stretches the limits of that creative freedom, you cannot point to non-existant rules and rhetoric and expect him not to be disappointed.

As it has been brought to my attention, and after looking into it myself, this character is quite close to a rip-off of Harry Dresden of the Dresden Files. I'm not going to ask you to change it all, though the bracer is obviously from the show. Instead, I'm going to just ask that you be careful not to follow through with following someone else's idea. Can't ask for "creative freedom" when creativity isn't at a maximum for the profile or the character idea.

[Shadai]

The difference in abilities and why I asked them to be put the way I asked is because that's how the RoG process is done. I'm not going to argue about what makes average to one person not average to another... because it's the same thing to me. Nor will I argue about percentages of the site that battle compared to quest, because that doesn't matter to me. What I'm working with is that I treat all these profiles the same, and ask for limits put on all skills and abilities...

Changes that I'd like you to make.

Pick Pockets: Stealth: Lockpicking: Sneak Attack: Daggers:

One above, two average, the others below.

Who am I to argue with the man.

Done. I will edit the first post with the changes.



On a side note
As it has been brought to my attention, and after looking into it myself, this character is quite close to a rip-off of Harry Dresden of the Dresden Files. I'm not going to ask you to change it all, though the bracer is obviously from the show. Instead, I'm going to just ask that you be careful not to follow through with following someone else's idea. Can't ask for "creative freedom" when creativity isn't at a maximum for the profile or the character idea.

VERY good Task. You found one of the 4 different characters I used as inspiration, admittedly the most obvious. Its not a "close rip-off" as you seem to suggest and its the books actually, not the show. Sadly though there are very few new ideas, everyone borrows inspiration from everyone else. Dresden was/is a much more powerful wizard and was never a thief. A point I was trying to make with the skills but I guess I can't have everything I want to blur the line. Very well.

The point, however, still stands.

[Taskmienster]

approved.