Penguins Workshop.

[Silence Sei]

Duffy and Atzar want a workshop on 'Not Even Penguins Could Appreciate This'.

And you guys are going to give it to them. Reviews and everything.

Know why? Cuz I've quested with 80% of you, and you owe me.

Discuss faults and good things!

NOW! (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?t=20668&page=2)

[Kryja]

I didn't see both of the combatants dying. Really liked that twist/turn of events.

That's all I have to say right now off the bat as I'm sneezing my brains out, so excuse me.

[SirArtemis]

This is CLEARLY an outright attack on thread writers and/or reviewers!

Jokes aside......





One of the things I noticed was some typos and missing hyphens and such with respect to mechanics, mostly for Duffy.

There was also a mention in the second post of a massive room that was 100 feet wide and it was never really used in later posts, which made it seem like wasted words.

I had some trouble envisioning the place where the "final showdown" was, some "peninsula" or something or other.

There was some contradiction with the wind blades that Atzar conjured. He had claimed they wouldn't do much but sting the opponent and were basically invisible, but in the next post, Duffy not only dodges one, but one hits him and launches him backward over the edge.

I really would have liked to see the familiar used more on Atzar's part. He just disappeared and that was that.

I got lost with the clarity a few times, but I tend to have that problem with combat sequences. From what I did imagine in my mind, it didn't seem all that exciting and I would have liked a few more twists and turns. To me, it could be summarized as...

Snowball, Snowball, slip and fall (ow), slip and fall (ow again, can't die yet), charge, other person slip and fall (ow), take the peninsula of ice down with both of you.

Also, that last line in the thread by Duffy confused me.

"Then it’s second, and their blood trickled from the jagged blades to offer some hope of warmth to the denizens of the dark amidst the black ice, bound in time and eternal chill."

The beginning of that sentence confuses the heck out of me.


Overall I enjoyed reading it and could get a pretty good image in my mind, but I feel like more could have been done with the dragon pet, and the combat itself seemed somewhat boring, and the ending was anti-climactic.

[Atzar]

Good points, I agree with everything you said here.

Regarding my misuse of the pygmy dragon, that was unfortunately an effect of the time it took to finish this battle. Over the couple of months it took to finish this, my vision of Atzar changed. When I started this thread, Zirkan was very much a part of that vision; when I finished, sadly he was not. I made some attempt to subtly write him out of the thread while not distracting from the battle, but it was definitely something I could have done much better.

In the meantime, I haven't decided what to do with Zirkan. I don't see him as part of Atzar's story now, but I don't want to get rid of him either. Perhaps he'll surface as a new account in the future, but I haven't decided on that yet - besides, I don't really need another alt to not use.

Thanks for the input, guys. Keep it coming!

[orphans]

Alright! So I've recovered from my sneezing fit and other stuff, taken care of chores and had time to sit, read, and poke out a thing. These are my thoughts, and just taken as that.


I guess to start... in post 10, the mention of his eyes, and how Duffy’s stare was as cold as his buttocks and thighs… well, I sort of lost it in a giggling fit. Not sure if that was what it was meant to do, but I found it a bit distracting over all. It made the fight seem much less serious, while the tone each character portrayed seemed otherwise.

In post 12, I was a bit surprised that the blades of wind had so much force. The continuity of “little more than sting,” to making Duffy fly backwards seemed a bit…. off. I mean, I guess it could be summed up in that, Duffy was hit with the blast at close, close range, but that’s left up to assumption. Suppose it could work.

Also, the way that Duffy brilliantly recovered from nearly falling off the ledge was nice, but, Atzar kind of just... stood there and waited, at least that what it seemed.

Aside from the minor spelling mistakes and misuse of homonyms (it’s, its), I found the pace to be reasonable. I did wonder a lot of what happened to Atzar’s dragon pet. Sort of just up and left? I saw that you did try to write it out somewhat and it does make sense to a certain point. Maybe it did crash into something…

I did wonder a little though about Duffy. Did he forget about the threat of the dragon? He certainly did see two opponents but beyond that, he never mentioned anything and all of his efforts were focused on one foe with no thought of a back attack (but… that’s probably just the paranoid person in me screaming).

As said before though, I was somewhat surprised at the whole “I’m taking you with me!” tactic, and it does leave me wondering if Atzar is adding that sort of tactic to his permanent list. Would lose its novelty.

[Chroma the lost]

I liked the thread, if I was judging I think it would score high with me, I wasn't looking for spelling mistakes, but more at readability. I loved the way you worked with the setting, I mean a maze made of Ice? Epic. Disappearing dragon? that bugged me. I personally would have used the dragon in the fight more, or just have left him out. I thought the whole snowball thing was kinda interesting. They would not have been my first weapon of choice, but surprisingly effective. then you add on the whole peninsula scene and you lost me. I liked the big cool "your trapped" scene but when you both died I was kinda let down. Overall there were a few glitches that could have been reworded, and maybe a few things could have been left out/added, but I felt like it was pretty good and a lot better than anything I could write.

[Atzar]

I liked the thread, if I was judging I think it would score high with me, I wasn't looking for spelling mistakes, but more at readability. I loved the way you worked with the setting, I mean a maze made of Ice? Epic. Disappearing dragon? that bugged me. I personally would have used the dragon in the fight more, or just have left him out. I thought the whole snowball thing was kinda interesting. They would not have been my first weapon of choice, but surprisingly effective. then you add on the whole peninsula scene and you lost me. I liked the big cool "your trapped" scene but when you both died I was kinda let down. Overall there were a few glitches that could have been reworded, and maybe a few things could have been left out/added, but I felt like it was pretty good and a lot better than anything I could write.

Eh, I wouldn't say it's a lot better than anything you could write. Getting good as a writer is just a matter of... well... writing. If you keep working at it and taking advice to heart, you'll become a strong writer in no time.

Thanks for the input though! I was starting to think this thread had died.

Anybody else?

[Dissinger]

*cracks knuckles* Give me a day or two, you'll have my full judgment.

[Knave]

Dynamic ENTRY!

Aight, children, I’ll try to break this down as smoothly as possible. A land mark achievement, so take a seat, and feel free to clap or hurl produce. Or just do this: =P

Gotta say, there aren’t many questions that you guys did not actively attempt to answer. Plenty of history spread out between posts to leave me wondering, and then pounding my palms and shouting, “Oh!” Initially, I had to ask just what the hell happened to Atzar, it seems pretty normal for everyone to run head first into rooms of near certain death around them. This is something of a key thing the deaf and the blind could pick up on, but anything done is worth mentioning, good or bad. You tied the past to the future, and made his reason for arriving his reason to exit the way he did, unresolved anger and spite. In the end though, this reason seems to put Altzar in over his head given how quickly he decides to run.

You did quite a bit of talking, or at least most of it early on. This is good, and I liked the dynamic between Atzar and his little friend. The only problem was that one of the exchanges between the two was somewhat cliché, or at least done to the point where I’ve seen it more than three times and have ceased to be sufficiently entertained by it. While a good way to establish their relationship as very tolerant friends, having one party point out the obvious to the straight man, and the straight man’s mild irritation at the exposure of his own stupidity/iniquity/mistakes/wrongdoings/whatever, is a bit old. Saw it on an episode of Black Adder, which is… what… 20 years old? Nothing wrong with cliché, but you’ve either got to change the way you prepare it, or feed it steroids. Like chicken. =D

All that said, it’s a shame you wrote off the dragon. I liked him. That and, he didn’t really get a proper send off. There be a trope fer this, as there be a trope fer all shenanigans, et’s called, “What happened to the mouse?” Would have made an excellent brick joke near the end, but that’s not how story goes.

Now, without the aid of civil conversation, the means by which a character is usually defined, dialogue, is changed to the much more thorough, much less ambiguous, monologue. Not to say his very thoughts are boring, but knowing what goes on inside their mind doesn’t leave much to the imagination. Luckily, in those brief flash backs you gave us plenty of description, and very little commentary, so we still had to ask the most vital of questions.

All that out of the way we can get to reason why we are all here. THE FIGHT! A quick glance at profile and user information tells me that you’re no stranger to using the environment. The posts conquer, and the reason why you chose this icy death trap as your arena is so obvious that neither here nor there does it need actual stating. Good job, man. My only complaint about your style of combat is that it needs imagination. Projectiles? Fantastic. Wind blades? Excellent. But I see potential for more than just that here. Especially when the other elements are considered. I suppose the realization, “He’s quick” instinctively puts him on the defense, though. Just saying you could have melted the ice, correct? Made him a sodden lump in snow, perhaps?

In any case, only when cornered does he find the spirit to fight, proving old maxims true. The fear, the running, the strategic choice of arena and final battle… I’m torn between thinking he’s a coward, reckless, or a complete capitalist determined to be in best situation possible. None of these things are bad, but I’m not sure which is true. Which isn’t bad in itself, though I am leaning toward all of the above. If this was the intention, good deal.

Duffy… I’ve not read much by any Englishmen ( I can use that word, right?) beyond the book sitting in my bag (Plague Dogs,) but there is a bit of a difference between land masses and people across the seas. I’m beginning to realize this, though right now what I notice is mainly word choice. I’ll deal with that later.

Who? You.
What? Fight.
Where? Here.
When? Now.
Why? Because that why I‘m here.

That’s Duffy to me in a nutshell. I don’t see that in his profile, but I’ll be the last man on earth to judge someone by what their credentials say. What I saw here was someone who loved to fight, and for whom to fight made just about everything else alright. Never mind the cold. Never mind the dragon. Duffy gonna whoop somebody and have a good time… he’s SKIPPING.

In characterization, there was more action from you than either thought or speech. Which is great, because those markets are quite full. I felt I had far more of how Duffy felt than Atzar when it comes to flesh and bones. Thing is, this battle was short, and there was not much to feel beyond biting cold. You do a very good job in conveying what there is to be physically felt, and his actions, at least to me, cover a good deal of his emotions.

Best I can say toward characterization is… say more! We have this character written to be a wisecracker, a joke tailor, a laugh machine capable of birthing humor and/or insults in the worst situations. I didn’t see that. Instead I saw, “grrr” a sound usually no one writes, and a childish repeat of what you’re opponent just said. I expected more.

Now back to that word usage.

Now I’m going to borrow that peninsula reference bring the count to three times its been mentioned. A peninsula is a land mass surrounded on three sides by water, and I say this to illustrate. In context, we have an open precipice on which there are three sides leading to certain doom. Problem? Just one. Landmass. Eight foot cliff. Something hundreds of people live on. Eight foot cliff. it’s a matter of scope to me… maybe if it had been a giant cliff it would have worked better. Beyond that, you strike me as trying to avoid overused terms.

Words that I stumbled on: Accruements, blanching, hobnail (Which I KNOW needs some clarification before its used in a common sentence with a 21st century audience.)

Over the river,
And through the woods,
Past east Atlantic seas,
To a man all blither,
Who wants to do good,
And takes to long to understand what he sees.

Wow… I am tired… what I meant to type was that you use of some words can have a bit of trouble crossing the ocean.

Ultimately, both characters made oaths. Neither could deliver, and so neither one could win. To be honest, given how long it took, I feel that you guys wanted to finish this. So it doesn’t bother me that we have a dual homicide.

[Atzar]

I appreciate the input, Knave.

It's not necessarily that Atzar's so cowardly. Rather, it's that he's a Squishy Mage - there's another trope for you - and that his best shot at this point is to keep his distance while riddling his opponent with projectiles. It was strategy, rather than personality, that led to his actions.

One thing that should be noted - and I probably should have mentioned before now - is that Duffy and I were using our level 2 profiles. I definitely hear what you're saying about coming up with more inventive ways to use my magic, but honestly at level 2 there wasn't much Atzar could do beyond launching ice or wind at him. I couldn't create water or fire at that level, so I was essentially limited to what my surroundings offered me. I trapped Atzar on the ledge, but at the same time I trapped myself into a repetitive battle style too.

[Knave]

He mentions this strategy once, clearly mentioning distance, but not going over it much. That and at no point were either of you actually winning, that bothered me most of all. Duffy clearly takes a beating from your slightest strike, and Atzar is actively avoiding him even though he could easily have the upper hand. I take it back, he is not a capitalist. The strategy would be good if Duffy had been more of a threat, this was not the case. Of course, this is in part due to narrative. Did you have that suicide planned out before your last post?

[Atzar]

Yeah, I actually mentioned it pretty regularly (although not explicitly), starting with when Atzar got out on the ledge.

I'm still not sure how you figure Duffy isn't a threat, though. People with sharp objects and a desire to use them seem like a threat to me.

[Duffy]

I see Knave's point, at level two, Duffy's combat ability wasn't much to be scared of. It still isn't, compared to other characters of a similar level (although in combination it is vitally deadly).

I think I agree that we both underplayed ourselves, but Duffy is scared of magic, and I imagine Atzar is scared of knives, so I think the over cautious nature displayed is fitting, if a little trite, from the both of us.

[Atzar]

I see Knave's point, at level two, Duffy's combat ability wasn't much to be scared of. It still isn't, compared to other characters of a similar level (although in combination it is vitally deadly).

I think I agree that we both underplayed ourselves, but Duffy is scared of magic, and I imagine Atzar is scared of knives, so I think the over cautious nature displayed is fitting, if a little trite, from the both of us.

Exactly - thank you. For some reason, I couldn't find the words to say this myself.

[Duffy]

It doesn't excuse my terrible spelling, bad proof-reading and lack of pacing, however :p

[Atzar]

I want to extend my heartfelt thanks to everybody who participated in this workshop, and to Duffy for writing with me. Truth be told, it wouldn't have surprised me in the least if this thread had been silent for the requisite two weeks like the rest of the 'recent' WW threads; we even made sure to request a full judgment as a backup plan in case that happened. Instead, you all were immensely helpful. Each of your opinions have been taken into consideration and will help me shape who Atzar is and ultimately becomes.

So again, thank you all.

[Atzar]

Hey guys.

Just a gentle reminder that it's been three weeks since this thread was posted here. Can we get an ETA on the official judgment?

[Silence Sei]

In all honesty, I was waiting on Diss to give that full review he said he was going to give.

I'll close this thread and have someone start on it.

[Silence Sei]

Atzar Duffy

Story ~ 15/15

Character ~ 19/20

An aside here, Atzar, you only lost the point for your dragon’s disappearance. This was not only a big issue with me, but everybody in your workshop, apparently.

Writing Style ~ 20/20

Wildcard ~ 5/5

Duffy wins 60-59

Despite starting at level 2 and using such profiles, Duffy still gets 1575 exp, and Atzar gets 450 EXP

Duffy gets 100 GP, and Atzar gets 140 GP

Both contestants also get a single ice cube that never melts as a reminder of their DOUBLE K!O!

Knaveofspades, being top contributor in the WW, gets 100 exp and 50 GP.

SirArtemis gets 150 exp

Orphans gets 150 exp

Chroma the lost gets 100 exp

And that should do it. I’m sure one of you guys will PM me if I screwed up.