Just wondering...

[Wolfman 20]

Yeah, I was wondering if it would be okay for me to post maybe one or two of my stories that I've wrote on here. They are short, but graphic and not meant for little kids. Is there a way I could post it on here and put up a age-required thing?

[giga123]

just put it up on the post or thread as an ooc thingy

[Mags]

you could probably put it up in the creative endeavors and then put on a disclaimer in bold across the top or in the title with warnings and age tags.

Though, yeah, I'd wait for a mod to respond to this since I'm not sure.

[Wolfman 20]

you could probably put it up in the creative endeavors and then put on a disclaimer in bold across the top or in the title with warnings and age tags.

Though, yeah, I'd wait for a mod to respond to this since I'm not sure.


Haha, that is what I was gonna do. I'm gonna wait till a mod answers then go by the books on what they say. But I'm not talking about a sexual story -although I have some wrote- I'm talking about a werewolf story, something I spit out in my spare time.

[giga123]

i got the basic jist of it alrdy

[Enigmatic Immortal]

I would go ahead and just post it in the creative endeavours and do the disclaimer. Trust me, I cite Requiem of Insanity

[Letho]

I would go ahead and just post it in the creative endeavours and do the disclaimer. Trust me, I cite Requiem of InsanityWhat he said. It would probably be wise to put 18+ or R rated or something like that in the thread title so people know. But other than that, post away.

[Wolfman 20]

Okay Letho, that is the answer I was looking for. Just waiting for a Mod to tell me though.

[Max Dirks]

Letho is an operations moderator (which includes OOC forums), and your thread is fine. Just throw a disclaimer up somewhere.

Wolfman, I also like your character website. Soon we'll be selling server space on Althanas for some cold hard cash (GP, not $). Keep your eyes peeled.

[Destrudo]

Keep your eyes peeled.

I know I'll be keeping my eyes peeled. But, I have to ask, when keeping one's eyes peeled, for those of us that do not have an eye peeler, would a potatoe peeler work, or should I use a citrus peeler?

[Wolfman 20]

Letho is an operations moderator (which includes OOC forums), and your thread is fine. Just throw a disclaimer up somewhere.

Wolfman, I also like your character website. Soon we'll be selling server space on Althanas for some cold hard cash (GP, not $). Keep your eyes peeled.

Oh wow. Thanks Dirks. A friend of mine showed me how to do it. But once I got the gist of it, it was simple to do.

Oh, and thy story is up with warning in title.

To those who want to read about wolves (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?t=21487)

Oh, any possible comments about the story itself would be greatly appreciated by any and all.

[Jack Frost]

Story was too long, did not read....
Jk, I'm to tired to make an attempt at this moment in time.

[Duffy]

I've given it a skim read, but the current posting method makes it a chore. (Which does not, in any way, reflect the content).

A few things that crop to mind (and I will try to give more in-depth considerations when I'm not running around like a headless chicken!)

1. Very heavy dialogue throughout - not altogether bad, but there is plenty of room to improve the dynamism between characters and build tension, action and gore through the use of brief, if not overly simple post-dialogue indicators. I don't mean 'he said, she said' malarky, more, 'the room shook like a pendulum as he raged' and so forth.

2. Not enough colloquilasims. When writing modern fiction, or at least, fiction set specifically within one culture clash - in this instance, in New York, bringing the arena to life with localised dialects, references to actual place names and local delicacies/traits can really beat the hammer and go miles in planting the reader THERE. Whilst a good story does that anyway, little inflections and sentimental trinkets work wonders. A little geographical research and the odd name dropping would help here.

3. Plot - this is a good, workable background story to work on. Give it some scrutinising and work through based on the feedback you receive and iron it out, and I see a glimmer of something worthwhile here, you've already come along way - it was a pleasure to read.

4. Please try to separate the chapters into one per post, if possible, or shorten them into more chapters, that are easier to manage.

Hope this helps somewhat!

[Wolfman 20]

I've given it a skim read, but the current posting method makes it a chore. (Which does not, in any way, reflect the content).

A few things that crop to mind (and I will try to give more in-depth considerations when I'm not running around like a headless chicken!)

1. Very heavy dialogue throughout - not altogether bad, but there is plenty of room to improve the dynamism between characters and build tension, action and gore through the use of brief, if not overly simple post-dialogue indicators. I don't mean 'he said, she said' malarky, more, 'the room shook like a pendulum as he raged' and so forth.

2. Not enough colloquilasims. When writing modern fiction, or at least, fiction set specifically within one culture clash - in this instance, in New York, bringing the arena to life with localised dialects, references to actual place names and local delicacies/traits can really beat the hammer and go miles in planting the reader THERE. Whilst a good story does that anyway, little inflections and sentimental trinkets work wonders. A little geographical research and the odd name dropping would help here.

3. Plot - this is a good, workable background story to work on. Give it some scrutinising and work through based on the feedback you receive and iron it out, and I see a glimmer of something worthwhile here, you've already come along way - it was a pleasure to read.

4. Please try to separate the chapters into one per post, if possible, or shorten them into more chapters, that are easier to manage.

Hope this helps somewhat!


Thanks for the tips. I will work on it, in the meantime, at least it is in my eyes the best I've done. Whole story took me near a year to complete. But Duffy, Thanks for the input, it's really appreciated.


EDIT: Chapters are separated and quoted with what chapter number it is.

[Requiem of Insanity]

Your blunt with your actions, which in times is necessary and other times not so much. Leave some things to the imagination and you'll get a better response out of the reader. In sexual scenes and murder scenes it's a very delicate hand that is required to make a reader get engrossed in the writing without flinching away.

It is indeed not bad. With Duffy's critique you can really make that story shine.

[giga123]

why ddi u not put this as a solo?

[Wolfman 20]

why did u not put this as a solo?

Cause it was not a solo. It was just a story that I wrote in my free time. It has nothing to do with my character. But please, if you must, please write to me in a pm instead of in my story. Or there is a thread where I take commentary. That said thread is right here. Just click here. Thank you. (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?t=21483)

[Sweet Polly Oliver]

I only skimmed this story and it was possibly the most disgusting and disturbing thing I've ever read. I'm not sure why this is even allowed to be posted on the site. I mean....seriously. Graphic werewolf rape? Who the heck do you think wants to read this? The fact that you even wrote this disturbs me very very much.

I don't think this should be allowed on the site, I really don't. Obviously I don't have control over it but if it was my call it'd be taken down. I don't have a problem with profanity, I can handle the word "fuck," but I DO have a problem with this...whatever this is.

And the fact that people are giving this encouragement?

Good lord.

[Letho]

Cause it was not a solo. It was just a story that I wrote in my free time. It has nothing to do with my character. But please, if you must, please write to me in a pm instead of in my story. Or there is a thread where I take commentary. That said thread is right here. Just click here. Thank you. (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?t=21483)I have moved those two posts out of the actual thread and into this one, so they don't get in the way.

I only skimmed this story and it was possibly the most disgusting and disturbing thing I've ever read. I'm not sure why this is even allowed to be posted on the site. I mean....seriously. Graphic werewolf rape? Who the heck do you think wants to read this? The fact that you even wrote this disturbs me very very much.

I don't think this should be allowed on the site, I really don't. Obviously I don't have control over it but if it was my call it'd be taken down. I don't have a problem with profanity, I can handle the word "fuck," but I DO have a problem with this...whatever this is.

And the fact that people are giving this encouragement?

Good lord. Having read the first few posts and skimmed over the rest, I have to admit it's pretty extreme. But "extreme" doesn't really mean we should ban it from the site. I think I remember Valentina Snow and Lorenor doing some freaky shit too, and that was IC. Bottom line is, everyone has the right to write about what they want. I will, however, put a disclaimer at the beginning of the first post in that thread, warning people what exactly can they expect should they continue reading. I mean, honestly, you slap XXX, or +18 rating on just about anything and it's only bound to draw attention. :P

[Sweet Polly Oliver]

I will, however, put a disclaimer at the beginning of the first post in that thread, warning people what exactly can they expect should they continue reading. I mean, honestly, you slap XXX, or +18 rating on just about anything and it's only bound to draw attention. :P

Well, seriously! It said MINORS STAY OUT! I'm a minor...what did you expect me to do, not read it? :P

Anyway, I guess I see your point about people being allowed to write what they want, but I do think it gives the wrong impression entirely to new members as to the nature of the site. It seems a bit incongruous with the style of everything else here. If I joined as a new member and then saw that, I'd definitely leave the sight faster than you can say "werewolf rape." I'm not going to, obviously, because I know it's not at all representative of what Althie is like...but yeah. Eek.

Plus, it's just really scary... ._.

[Wolfman 20]

Well, seriously! It said MINORS STAY OUT! I'm a minor...what did you expect me to do, not read it? :P

Anyway, I guess I see your point about people being allowed to write what they want, but I do think it gives the wrong impression entirely to new members as to the nature of the site. It seems a bit incongruous with the style of everything else here. If I joined as a new member and then saw that, I'd definitely leave the sight faster than you can say "werewolf rape." I'm not going to, obviously, because I know it's not at all representative of what Althie is like...but yeah. Eek.

Plus, it's just really scary... ._.

How is it scary? I want to hear/read everyone's commentary. I want to know how I can improve. Thus far, Duffy has given the best so far. So once again, THANKS DUFFY.

[Letho]

Well, seriously! It said MINORS STAY OUT! I'm a minor...what did you expect me to do, not read it? :P

Anyway, I guess I see your point about people being allowed to write what they want, but I do think it gives the wrong impression entirely to new members as to the nature of the site. It seems a bit incongruous with the style of everything else here. If I joined as a new member and then saw that, I'd definitely leave the sight faster than you can say "werewolf rape." I'm not going to, obviously, because I know it's not at all representative of what Althie is like...but yeah. Eek.

Plus, it's just really scary... ._.It wasn't that extreme. I saw some mangas that are way worse. :P But in all seriousness, I sincerely doubt that the first thing this hypothetical new member will click on is a random thread in the Creative Endeavors, so I don't think there will be any fallout. Though, on the flip side, we might get an influx of new members who googled for werewolf rape or whatever and wound up here. They may be wierdos, but hey, we can use the activity. ;)

[The Thirtenth Sons.]

Honestly the story is a little....graphic to say the least. I found the detail cringe worthy and repulsive. It's a good story but not my type of story.

[The Thirtenth Sons.]

It wasn't that extreme. I saw some mangas that are way worse. :P But in all seriousness, I sincerely doubt that the first thing this hypothetical new member will click on is a random thread in the Creative Endeavors, so I don't think there will be any fallout. Though, on the flip side, we might get an influx of new members who googled for werewolf rape or whatever and wound up here. They may be wierdos, but hey, we can use the activity. ;)
If they googled werewolf rape I don't want the here....they may gross the place up with tentacles and other weird fetishes.

[Revenant]

How is it scary?

You've got to remember that the topic of RAPE can be a frightening thing to people. Sure for some people it might just be a hand-waving affair, but for others the fact of rape is a cruel, realistic, frightening thing. I'm not saying that you shouldn't write rape scenes, only that you should understand the emotional undercurrents that can come from even a casual reference to such a violent, horrible act.

[Sweet Polly Oliver]

How is it scary?

Ummmm, should I even need to answer that? Just look at the warning at the top of the thread. "WARNING!!! The following story contains scenes of explicit violence and gore, extreme sexual content and bestiality."

I really, really should not need to answer that question. And no, it's not "scary" in a Stephen King sort of oh I'm so scared pleasant sort of scary, it's scary in more of a "holy crap why did this even occur to someone to write this what the hell oh sweet jesus" sort of way. Allow me to scroll down and quote a completely random sentence that catches my eye...


Then he slowly dragged the long claw of his index finger over the bridge of flesh between her cunt and asshole, cutting deeply, slicing it open. Brianna managed only a gasp of agony this time, and fresh blood gushed out onto the mud and quickly formed into a puddle.

What the fuck. WHAT THE FUCK. DUDE REALLY? "how is it scary?" SERIOUSLY!?

Why would you even write this!? Fdjsafkljsa;dfdsajfs arrgh


It wasn't that extreme. (Polly's note: excuse me, wasn't that extreme!?) I saw some mangas that are way worse. :P But in all seriousness, I sincerely doubt that the first thing this hypothetical new member will click on is a random thread in the Creative Endeavors, so I don't think there will be any fallout. Though, on the flip side, we might get an influx of new members who googled for werewolf rape or whatever and wound up here. They may be wierdos, but hey, we can use the activity.

Well. I've seen stories that were more disgusting, and I've seen ones that were more disturbing, but this is like the perfect storm of repulsion and boundary crossing. I mean...seriously. Or maybe I'm just not as experienced in disgusting things as you older folks. ><

And oh jesus. If this suddenly becomes a forum for werewolf rape fetishests, I'm going to go Van Helsing on everyone's ass. Not even kidding.


Honestly the story is a little....graphic to say the least. I found the detail cringe worthy and repulsive. It's a good story but not my type of story.

This is all true, except for the part about it being a good story.

EDIT:


You've got to remember that the topic of RAPE can be a frightening thing to people. Sure for some people it might just be a hand-waving affair, but for others the fact of rape is a cruel, realistic, frightening thing. I'm not saying that you shouldn't write rape scenes, only that you should understand the emotional undercurrents that can come from even a casual reference to such a violent, horrible act.

This, this, a thousand times this! Maybe I'm just overly sensitive to it being female and having something of a phobia of being raped (which I'm not even going to go into) but it really really freaks me out. Add to that the gore and the bestiality and this is really, really messed up.

[The Thirtenth Sons.]

Okay Polly we get it, you don't like the story due to the gore and rape. Some people (with strong stomachs) don't mind the violence or rape. Let them read it and leave it to them to decide and opinion on it.

[Wolfman 20]

It wasn't that extreme. I saw some mangas that are way worse. :P But in all seriousness, I sincerely doubt that the first thing this hypothetical new member will click on is a random thread in the Creative Endeavors, so I don't think there will be any fallout. Though, on the flip side, we might get an influx of new members who googled for werewolf rape or whatever and wound up here. They may be wierdos, but hey, we can use the activity. ;)



I'm not sure if I should take that as a compliment or not. But as for my first quote by Letho, the redhead lover, I'll take it as a compliment. But thanks Letho, any commentary is appreciated.

[Sweet Polly Oliver]

Okay Polly we get it, you don't like the story due to the gore and rape. Some people (with strong stomachs) don't mind the violence or rape. Let them read it and leave it to them to decide and opinion on it.

Excuse me, he asked for commentary:


Oh, any possible comments about the story itself would be greatly appreciated by any and all.


I want to hear/read everyone's commentary. I want to know how I can improve.


any commentary is appreciated.

Just because my opinion isn't positive doesn't mean it's not legitimate.

[Wolfman 20]

Excuse me, he asked for commentary:







Just because my opinion isn't positive doesn't mean it's not legitimate.


I understand. I have other stories as well if you want me to put them up. None as bad as that. Some are like it, but not to that degree. So I'm gonna take a vote of who wants to see normal stories. Say I so I know who wants to read some. If you want a sample, I'll post one up.

[Atzar]

I'm inclined to agree with Polly here. I had always thought the policy with regards to adult content here was "tastefully mature". I've read several threads in my time here that fit that description, and many of them were very well-written. There was nothing tasteful about this. It was crude and vulgar at best, and absolutely horrific at worst.

Put it this way: I have a younger sister who writes a lot. She's good - certainly better than I was at her age - and I've been considering introducing her to Althanas. That thread singlehandedly made up my mind on that idea. I will not take the risk that she sees something like that because of my actions.

[Wolfman 20]

I'm inclined to agree with Polly here. I had always thought the policy with regards to adult content here was "tastefully mature". I've read several threads in my time here that fit that description, and many of them were very well-written. There was nothing tasteful about this. It was crude and vulgar at best, and absolutely horrific at worst.

Put it this way: I have a younger sister who writes a lot. She's good - certainly better than I was at her age - and I've been considering introducing her to Althanas. That thread singlehandedly made up my mind on that idea. I will not take the risk that she sees something like that because of my actions.


Wow, that one story changed your mind? I'm not sure if that's good or bad. It's good cause it shows people the gory side of things but bad cause we lose a potential member. so it's a lose/lose situation. Sorry man, I didn't think it would be this popular. I was just trying to get critique for it. Like pointers on it.

[Sweet Polly Oliver]

Wow, that one story changed your mind? I'm not sure if that's good or bad. It's good cause it shows people the gory side of things but bad cause we lose a potential member. so it's a lose/lose situation. Sorry man, I didn't think it would be this popular. I was just trying to get critique for it. Like pointers on it.

Not popular so much as infamous, really.

And thanks Atzar, you're exactly right. I have no real problem with "mature" content--I don't have a problem with sex or even violence really. I do have a problem with this. This story is just way, way repulsive and over any sort of line I can even think of. This is an instance where I think it ought to be a mod's discretion to just remove the thread. If he wants feedback, he can host it somewhere else and send links to anyone interested, I dunno. I just don't think it belongs here.

[Wolfman 20]

Not popular so much as infamous, really.

And thanks Atzar, you're exactly right. I have no real problem with "mature" content--I don't have a problem with sex or even violence really. I do have a problem with this. This story is just way, way repulsive and over any sort of line I can even think of. This is an instance where I think it ought to be a mod's discretion to just remove the thread. If he wants feedback, he can host it somewhere else and send links to anyone interested, I dunno. I just don't think it belongs here.

I don't mean to be an ass about this, but Polly, at first glance of the gore in it, why not stop reading it? You could have saved yourself some time and trouble there. Really, if you don't like it, don't read it.

[Sweet Polly Oliver]

I don't mean to be an ass about this, but Polly, at first glance of the gore in it, why not stop reading it? You could have saved yourself some time and trouble there. Really, if you don't like it, don't read it.

Too late for that. And anyway, I didn't even read the whole thing. I read the first post and sorta skimmed the rest of it. That isn't even consequential. Don't like it don't read it isn't a good argument. It's there. That's the problem.

Also, similarly to Atzar, I'm definitely uncomfortable inviting any of my friends to join the site given that story. I see no reason to expose them to that. I definitely see this story being there as discouraging the site's growth. But whatever.

Oh, who cares, I give up on this. I've made my point of view perfectly clear.

Wolfman, in the future, do not contact me at all. Thanks.

[Wolfman 20]

Geez, sorry for being out there. Damn, if it will help you feel better, I'll ask a mod to take it down, how does that sound?

[Duffy]

I strongly advise everyone to take a step back, calm down, and leave this to rest.

Polly, Atzar, you've both expressed your opinions and points of view, and I will not wager them inadequate or valid - that is not my place, nor is it anyone other than a moderator's place to judge the appropriateness of your concerns.

If you, or any other member of the site have a problem or think that X or Y thread contravenes either common decency or the policy of Althanas, there is a Report Thread function for you to address such issues with the staff - it needn't continue in public where someone is likely to say something they will forget.

We're all better than that!

[Wolfman 20]

I strongly advise everyone to take a step back, calm down, and leave this to rest.

Polly, Atzar, you've both expressed your opinions and points of view, and I will not wager them inadequate or valid - that is not my place, nor is it anyone other than a moderator's place to judge the appropriateness of your concerns.

If you, or any other member of the site have a problem or think that X or Y thread contravenes either common decency or the policy of Althanas, there is a Report Thread function for you to address such issues with the staff - it needn't continue in public where someone is likely to say something they will forget.

We're all better than that!

Yes I understand that Duffy. But it was never my intention for it to escalate to this. I was just being out there, writing something different. If I could, I'd put up an age thing that you have to put your age in to see it. But I can't. The only thing I could to is either take it down or just ignore it. but to be honest, you'd have to look pretty hard on this site to find it. Well if you're not smart that is.

EDIT:
Okay you know what? Desperate times call for desperate moves. I told you not all my stories are graphic, and here is that proof (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?t=21546)

[Letho]

Put it this way: I have a younger sister who writes a lot. She's good - certainly better than I was at her age - and I've been considering introducing her to Althanas. That thread singlehandedly made up my mind on that idea. I will not take the risk that she sees something like that because of my actions.In all truth, if she has access to the Internet, she has access to worse stuff than this one story. And it's likely much easier to find than this thread on Althanas.


This isn't as much of a question of general appropriateness as it is of personal preference. I personally found it falling a bit on the wrong side of the fine line between much and too much. For some others it was way, way on the wrong side. And while we're all entitled to our opinions (and assholes), so is Wolfman entitled to express himself creatively on this site. I'm not about to censor someone's story just because some find it gut-wrenching or overboard or disgusting or whatever.

At any rate, the disclaimer is there and it's up to each and every person to decide what to do. Perhaps I should've put it up there before, but I didn't have time to read the story until today. Still, that doesn't change the fact that if you click on the thread and don't like what it says or don't have the stomach for such themes, you don't have to continue reading. And it's not like there's a hundred of threads like this just jumping at people like a pit-bull, turning Althanas into a furry rape site. So I have no problem with the story being "there", and if anybody does, Duffy said what you can do. Now, let us allow this thread to get back on track and allow Wolfman to receive some constructive criticism.

[Wolfman 20]

In all truth, if she has access to the Internet, she has access to worse stuff than this one story. And it's likely much easier to find than this thread on Althanas.


This isn't as much of a question of general appropriateness as it is of personal preference. I personally found it falling a bit on the wrong side of the fine line between much and too much. For some others it was way, way on the wrong side. And while we're all entitled to our opinions (and assholes), so is Wolfman entitled to express himself creatively on this site. I'm not about to censor someone's story just because some find it gut-wrenching or overboard or disgusting or whatever.

At any rate, the disclaimer is there and it's up to each and every person to decide what to do. Perhaps I should've put it up there before, but I didn't have time to read the story until today. Still, that doesn't change the fact that if you click on the thread and don't like what it says or don't have the stomach for such themes, you don't have to continue reading. And it's not like there's a hundred of threads like this just jumping at people like a pit-bull, turning Althanas into a furry rape site. So I have no problem with the story being "there", and if anybody does, Duffy said what you can do. Now, let us allow this thread to get back on track and allow Wolfman to receive some constructive criticism.

I swear Letho, I would hug you right now if I could. Not that I wouldn't. But thank you. What you're saying is the truth. This site is not full of those stories, and even if it was, the bad ones have warnings of some sort. Also, Letho has a point. If you can't stomach gore and rape material, then stop and close the tab/window now.

But anyway, Thanks Letho for the support. At least I'm not the only decent person on this site who is okay with said thread or other things.

[Max Dirks]

Wolfman, I finally read through your story. It was very well written, but it is slightly too pornographic for Althanas. Allow me to cower behind the Althanas rules:
Althanas moderators never delete or modify threads or posts based on content. As we do have underaged members, links to pornographic material may be removed, but it is our strict policy to allow members to freely share their beliefs, ideas, and opinions without any sort of moderator intervention. Your posted content will never be removed simply because a staff member disagrees with you. To those of you concerned about viewing such material, I remind you of this...
Althanas has a customized profanity filter that may be configured for each individual member. You can designate any words or phrases that you would like this filter to block in your User Control Panel. Further, you may choose to disable this filter at your discretion.

Because this filter is in place, we do not have a policy restricting the use of profanity. While we encourage you to limit your use of swear words and to err on the side of caution when posting explicit content, we will not impose any limitations on your word or subject matter choice.

If you find any material on Althanas offensive, we remind you to take advantage of the built-in profanity filter and also to exercise your right to ignore a thread. An uncommon word, the c-word, was used several times in the thread. By setting your profanity filter to block the word, you will not see the thread.

I've left the thread up, but I've hidden it. Those who know the URL can still access to provide Wolfman with comments. The thread ID is 21487. Moreover, I'm very disappointed in the actions of some of our older members in response to this story. Since this is not your first warning, it will be your final warning. Further trolling of Wolfman regarding this story will result in a temporary ban. I'll decide the timeframe, but coming back solely to troll new members is getting old.

Finally, the "Report Thread" link is not working. It's attached to the old thread judgment system so I disabled it when I installed the new one. I'll try to get it working by the end of the week and will post an announcement when it is fixed. In the meantime, just PM Letho or myself to report any threads.

[Max Dirks]

It looks like my plan to systematically hide the thread has failed. Thus it will remain in a semi-permanent limbo until I can find a hack. In the meantime, Wolfman, I suggest posting your story onto your character website. If you still would like constructive criticism on the thread (at least the writing), you can post a "Rate Me" thread in the Role-Player's Corner letting people know where to find it. Try to avoid posting a direct link though because that technically could violate the rules. Once I figure out how to hide it without introducing a community wide "hide hack" I'll let you know.

[Visla Eraclaire]

Just for the record, I don't think anyone's problem was really with the words being used in the posts. Swearing is so commonplace that it barely raises an eyebrow. This isn't a word filter issue. That story could have all the "bad words" censored out of it and it still would have been obscene.

If I wanted not to see it, I could have gone away from the thread easily. That wasn't the point. The point was that it's pornography and last I checked we don't host or evaluate pornography. If you'd like to change that position, Max, it is of course your site to pay for. I just don't think that most people signed up here under that understanding.

Disliking and opposing something that degrades the site isn't trolling. People need to stop using "trolling" as a stand-in for "things I dislike."

Hopefully linking it offsite is enough to dissociate us from it. The text won't be found by search engine bots and linked to the site. That was one of my major concerns. I still don't really see why you want to be so accomodating to something that is far beyond the scope of the site. Even if you think it's fantastic pornography, it's undeniably pornography and that just isn't our business (as I said, unless you want to make it so).

If an artist instead of a writer posted graphic depictions of the scenes from that story I suspect we wouldn't be so forgiving. Maybe because we're a "writing forum" we should be more open to written things, but if it's pornography I really don't think it should matter if it's text-based.

Dirks is, of course, trying to be diplomatic, and that's part of his job to some extent, and I respect that. I'm not a site leader or representative so I have the benefit of being able to be partisan and take a position without concessions toward middle ground.

Ideally these things should be able to be resolved without your intervention, since I am well aware you have more important things to be doing (though until September, I don't). In addition to confronting Wolfman on the site, I attempted to get one of his friends to impress upon him that this was not within acceptable norms on the site, so that this could be resolved at least somewhat amicably.

This should be a matter of community standards and mutual respect rather than administrative censorship. Max shouldn't be forced to declare things pornography or defend things which he believes are not. We as a community should be able to come to a consensus about what is and isn't outside acceptable standards. These standards should not be oppressive or judgmental, but on the cesspit that is the internet, if you don't hold yourself up to some kind of standards you quickly degenerate.

We should think twice before condemning sexualized or offensive works, but we should also think twice before posting them. I think this case was fairly clear. Whatever Wolfman's intentions, his work fit the definition of obscenity. It was pornographic and, to even my liberal and open mind, lacked significant literary value. It primarily appealed to the prurient interest in sex, in particular violent non-consensual sex. That cannot be accepted on this site. He has ample alternative avenues to express himself.

[Wolfman 20]

We should think twice before condemning sexualized or offensive works, but we should also think twice before posting them. I think this case was fairly clear. Whatever Wolfman's intentions, his work fit the definition of obscenity. It was pornographic and, to even my liberal and open mind, lacked significant literary value. It primarily appealed to the prurient interest in sex, in particular violent non-consensual sex. That cannot be accepted on this site. He has ample alternative avenues to express himself.



Okay, I understand what you mean. It was WAY out of hand. I understand that. If it makes you happy, I won't write like that anymore. I'll just write basic things that anyone would read. in a way, you made me see the light that not many people like gore filled, werewolf raping bestiality to the extreme. I'll just stick to the common things. You name it, I might write about it. Just nothing too out there. I stick to humanoids. Nothing outside of that.

[Visla Eraclaire]

I appreciate your contrition, but I think you misunderstand to some extent. When the story is about the sex and glorifies the violence of it and revels in the details of depraved acts, that is what makes it pornography.

Merely containing gore, sex, violence, or bestiality doesn't immediately brand something as pornographic. Many stories on the site involve and concern rape. Fantasy as a whole revolves around wanton and frequently senseless murder. There are two ways to keep this from being inappropriate.

One, the story is greater than the sexual acts within. It is about something else and the acts are incidental and not the whole of the work. They're somewhat out of focus, mentioned but not fully described, alluded to but not reenacted.

Two, the story puts the events in a proper context. You don't have to put in "Disclaimer: I think this is bad and this guy is a bad guy." But rather than simply writing what seems like a self-insertion fantasy, provide a sort of overarching analysis that encourages the audience to not simply watch the acts as a prurient spectacle to arouse themselves but to ponder and understand the conduct therein.

For now, I'd stick to number one, because it's much easier and keeps you out of trouble.

[Rayse Valentino]

Like I said in your thread, I think people see this site as a small step above a Twilight fanfic posting board. We have levels, critique, and the general focus is not only having an interesting story, but one that shows some semblance of writing style and technique. It's a game of who can create the closest thing to a readable piece of work. If you're writing something to see if anyone's 'into' it, or gets off on it, you're here for the wrong reasons.

Although I, and some of the really long-term people, think it's about taking multiple people and seeing the magic of taking an idea that one person has and making it better, more creative, giving it more perspective by adding more lenses, and such. The complete thought serves as an example of how to display multiple perspectives in one story, and for me half the fun of it is working with the other people since it's one of those rare times in the world where someone cares about your dumb little story and wants to help make it better, or vice-versa. Of course, solos completely invalidate this but as long as people don't just write masturbatory solos 100% of the time it's fine with me.

But getting back to the point, I don't care about the content as some of these other people do. The intent is more important to me. There are fanfic websites out there dedicated to your sort of thing. This isn't one of them. The whole 'tell me what to write and I'll do it' attitude already tells me you're not here to Play The Game. Think of it more as an MMORPG rather than a short story posting board and you'll get the picture.

Disclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily reflect those of the staff or other members of the site.

[Wolfman 20]

Like I said in your thread, I think people see this site as a small step above a Twilight fanfic posting board. We have levels, critique, and the general focus is not only having an interesting story, but one that shows some semblance of writing style and technique. It's a game of who can create the closest thing to a readable piece of work. If you're writing something to see if anyone's 'into' it, or gets off on it, you're here for the wrong reasons.

Although I, and some of the really long-term people, think it's about taking multiple people and seeing the magic of taking an idea that one person has and making it better, more creative, giving it more perspective by adding more lenses, and such. The complete thought serves as an example of how to display multiple perspectives in one story, and for me half the fun of it is working with the other people since it's one of those rare times in the world where someone cares about your dumb little story and wants to help make it better, or vice-versa. Of course, solos completely invalidate this but as long as people don't just write masturbatory solos 100% of the time it's fine with me.

But getting back to the point, I don't care about the content as some of these other people do. The intent is more important to me. There are fanfic websites out there dedicated to your sort of thing. This isn't one of them. The whole 'tell me what to write and I'll do it' attitude already tells me you're not here to Play The Game. Think of it more as an MMORPG rather than a short story posting board and you'll get the picture.

Disclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily reflect those of the staff or other members of the site.

Okay, I know that already. but as for asking for ideas, I get bored too. I write in my free time. It's my escape from the real world. But I know there are those out there, but none of them in my honest opinion are as worthwhile as Althanas. I've skimmed through some, but none of them compare to here.

As said in the 'you know you're addicted to althanas when' thread, this place is like a drug and we are it's addicts. I can't but help staying away from here for too long. But listen, can we just drop the topic seeing as Max took the thread down?

[Duffy]

I do wonder, somewhat surreptitiously, what is and isn't acceptable in terms of 'appropriate' use of violence.

I use Stieg Larsson's Millennium Trilogy as my gun-runner when it comes to this - some things in the book are shocking, but, are appropriate and well placed within the framework of the novel and ultimately, the development of the characters.

If something should become the productive result of this particular occurrence, can it be clarity, and heaven forbid, an intellectual-(ish) discussion on the relative merits as violence as technique?

[Visla Eraclaire]

I think violence would have to be brutal, vicious, lavishly detailed and overwhelmingly aggrandizing descriptions of the worst possible torture to be unacceptable.

It's the same sort of revelry that would be present in sexually inappropriate stuff. It's just violence porn. It's admittedly harder to do because socially normal violence is a much more acceptable thing and is contextualized in a lot of ways that sexual violence is not.

Violence is an almost inextricable part of fantasy and of all human life. Sexual assault is not necessary in the same way and so it is more marginalized.

We hate a rapist more than a murderer. There are a million theories as to why, but somehow I think we all just understand the murderer better. There are enshrined legal justifications to kill and to maim. There are no such justifications to rape.

It's partly definitional. We're comparing the act of killing uncontextualized to the act of raping, which is a contextualized action already. The proper comparison is to compare killing to having sex. Both are acceptable acts in given parameters. Sex is in fact probably permissible in more circumstances than killing. It just happens that when it is not permitted, society is more repulsed than an unjustified killer.

Rape is, psychologically, not about the sex, according to most studies. Thus it is perhaps appropriate that we don't compare it as described above. Therefore, it makes sense that we say we can understand a murderer, because we could see ourselves killing and the only difference with a murderer is the attendant circumstances are slightly different. Whereas we'd say we don't understand a rapist because while we might see ourselves having sex, we consider that fundamentally different from rape, even though to be technical it is "unjustified sex" the same as "unjustified killing" is murder.

There's your intellectual discussion.

Easy bottom line though: If you're writing something primarily to glorify rape or otherwise to appeal primarily to people's sexual interests without otherwise important merit (even in the context of legal sex acts), you are writing pornography and we don't want it.

[Duffy]

I think violence would have to be brutal, vicious, lavishly detailed and overwhelmingly aggrandizing descriptions of the worst possible torture to be unacceptable.

You pretty much nail my primary concern right here, on the head, with the biggest hammer imaginable. The vast majority of terrible or ill conceived fiction is due to overwhelming and unnecessary use of violence. Like art, if it's just for the sake of it, it has it's own brutal quality asides from any physical or mental act that is simply unneeded.


Violence is an almost inextricable part of fantasy and of all human life. Sexual assault is not necessary in the same way and so it is more marginalized.

This, too, is a crucial tool for the defence of violence in writing. Let's face it, Althanas is not a pretty, immaculate Zion in which our characters roll about happily dazed and confused about their gender, place in life and point (although Duffy might...) To coin a phrase from Warhammer 40,000, "In the grim darkness of the future (sic, past) there is only war."

We have to accept that a story in Althanas will contain violence. It features in a majority of threads to the point where it's almost unavoidable. Since Althanas is also based on the real world, as is any piece of human imagining, we must also assume that our social norms and our social occurrence are transported there too. Sexual abuse and domestic violence will be shattering windows and rattling doors in the night in Radasanth as much as it will be in Paris, Kiev or London.

So the question is, do we need to write about it? No, probably not. But can we, if it is done to a limited degree, or if it is written and attributed to character development without engorging the reader on it? Yes, I do believe we can.


We hate a rapist more than a murderer. There are a million theories as to why, but somehow I think we all just understand the murderer better. There are enshrined legal justifications to kill and to maim. There are no such justifications to rape.

Not legally, no, but certainly socially. Understanding a psychopath, a killer or an abusive person is part of the allure for me, as a sociologist and criminologist. The mystery of the unknown is a universal narcotic, it's precisely the reason why books like The Girl With Dragon Tattoo and A Boy Called It (and a billion other best sellers featuring sexual abuse) are popular - we read because we want to be disturbed, enthralled, encapsulated by the plight of others to remind us we're human, and that shit happens.


There's your intellectual discussion.

Easy bottom line though: If you're writing something primarily to glorify rape or otherwise to appeal primarily to people's sexual interests without otherwise important merit (even in the context of legal sex acts), you are writing pornography and we don't want it.

And a commendable one, at that. I'm not trying to justify the content of any piece of writing on Althanas, past, present or future, I'm just trying to get to grips with the mind set that causes people to be offended. I'm not even asking people accept 'rape' as a social event, I am not asking them to subject themselves to anything they do not wish to read or be exposed to.

Voltaire once said "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." (Stop cringing, Visla :p) But I think in this instance, society, and as an extension and gathering of society's individuals Althanas too, need to amend that to 'with one or two minor clauses.'

That, or some of you need to read Vernon God Little or The Slap!...

[Visla Eraclaire]

Ugh, that Voltaire quote is so douchey even though I completely agree with it. I did cringe.