Tis the darkest of nights Workshop

[Zerith]

Alright, Wolfman 20 and Sweet Polly Oliver have requested a Writer's Workshop for their thread Tis the darkest of nights. (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?t=21505)

So this thread will be open to the public for two weeks. I encourge everyone to take the time to read the thread and post any comments or suggestions you may have for the two of them.

Thanks in advance everyone!

[SirArtemis]

Done

Holy crap, big issue right off the bat. Wolfman has his character listed as being 221 years old in the mini-profile on the left of the page. However, in his thread, he starts off by implying that at the moment, his character is only 45 or so. This means that at the time you meet Polly, assuming she lives in the "present" time of Althanas, your character would be 176 years younger than HIS present, which means that theoretically, any person you would want to communicate with in "present" Althanas is likely going to be dead by the time you are 221 years old (which is supposedly your character's present).

Few mechanical errors: capitalization, tense conflict (flipping back and forth), homonym usage.
E.G. "The sounds of the jungle were as alive as he is." ..... try.... "The sounds of the jungle are as alive as he is." .... I think that would make more sense (personally).
E.G. "Once he turned his head back towards the front, he just slides his pants off." ..... try .... "Once he turns his head toward the front, he slides his pants off." .... I think that would make more sense (personally).

Reference to "god" ... not lowercase

Don't use words like "gonna" unless in dialogue.

He shivers five times in your first three posts... but I also have no idea what more is attached to that shiver. Why is he shivering? What is he feeling that makes him shiver, not just what caused it? What other thoughts run through his mind? How else does his body react? Also, try using other reactions.

Some clarity issues such as this statement:
"His eyes land on the orb in the moon, a full moon."
I feel, again this is personally, that the statement would be more clear if written as "His eyes fall upon the moon, a complete orb this night." Or something like that. Landing on the moon makes me think they are no longer in your head, but on the moon. Not to mention saying the "orb in the moon" makes it seem like... there's an orb... IN the moon.



Next, Polly's first post. (I probably won't go this in depth with every post. It's just some things I noticed and some examples. I'll give a general overview once I'm done with the thread.)

Again, god here is generally in need of capitalization. (Which you apparently do later on... sometimes...)

Nothing else really. A bit of changes I'd make with writing style but I think that's just preference. We'll see if I come across anything else.






Okay, so for Wolfman, I admire your attempt at writing in present tense but it is incredibly difficult to master, and at the moment, it may be better to stick with past tense. You continuously flop back and forth even within sentences and it begins to get very troublesome for the reader. There are also several oddities that stand out where as I read I ask myself what the hell you are talking about. For example, there is a point where you wish you were a strong sword, or you claim that you are smiling even though you have a snout... and you don't have lips... which are necessary to smile. This includes some of the earlier mentioned stuff, but it is mostly your wording. Of course I can make assumptions about what you were trying to say, but I shouldn't have to is all I'm saying. Also, be careful with homonyms. You used the word "through" to say "throw" and "scared" instead of "scarred."


Polly, you run into some little errors that you tend to make which could probably be fixed with a reread with fresh eyes. For example:

Plus he looked like he was really just a big softie at heart, yes yes did, oh yes he did, oh who’s a good liddle wolfie?

Also, I find it can be a bit tiresome to see so many paragraph breaks when reading. I know it makes sense for dialogue but at times I'd like a solid block of something, even setting, or emotions or thoughts.



Overall, it wasn't too bad of a thread. It felt rushed somewhat and it did get a bit troublesome reading some of the action, as it was difficult to envision. Little mistakes can also be easily avoided with some reread at a later time and having the other author or a friend read it for clarity purposes. It's really difficult to know whether or not people know what you are trying to say by just reading it yourself, as you see it all in your mind. You need a blank slate to really test that out. Watch for little errors and at the very least your clarity and mechanics will benefit.

Nothing too advanced. A basic 1v1 fight.

[Knave]

In this corner, Sweet Polly "The Problem" Oliver! AKA "She Who Beats Up Wolves" or SWBUW, say it how you like.

FIRST POST: Kick

=_=… Okay…

First off, after reading the first line, I can honestly imagine that accent grating on my nerves. That said, its an honest attempt to bring color to her dialogue, something you like to use often from what I’ve seen so far. It already reeks of the country drawl, which I’m sure will appeal to someone. I can bare it…

Description wise, there is a notable lack of fluff verging on minimalistic using a simplicity of words which comes across as natural… that said, I know nothing of what anyone or anything looks like from the very beginning, and continue not to for some time. I am forced to work my mind to fill in gaps, which would be fine if I were not lazy, as such, everything is in black and white for my convenience. This style is reminiscent of Hemingway, (the criticisms are actually the same,) in that I will never be sent looking for a dictionary, or get lost in great attempts at strange styles. The appeal is the characterization and the story, not how they are written. As such, I think you have less room to allow mistakes.

The great sum of your introduction is dialogue, and recollection, which does wonders to introduce me to aspects of Polly’s mind both toward the past, and her relationship with her own personal god. Not sure if you were going for this, but my take on it was that she wasn’t quite sure of her own sanity, and doesn‘t let that bother her or get out of hand… which is just wonderful. Most people just think, “they hear voices” the must be irrationally insane, immediately writing the extreme.

ONWARD HO!

While I can certainly appreciate Polly’s reaction to being nipped at by wolf, I don’t particularly like that you banished it through the magic of narration dictating what it was thinking. This seems to be Wolfman’s ability, and he’d probably have the choice of how it acted and whether or not it ran away. Spanking the wolf is fine, poking him with your stick, more so. I don’t think it’s the same, but I’d doubt it would be alright for Wolfman introducing the Sparrow god into the battle on his own and holding the god hostage…

“It was hard to pick out one noise from all the others in this jungle place though—the forest was about as quiet as a chicken coop after a weasel’s jumped in.” Another excellent colloquial aphorism of the rural nature of your character. These can be done well, and they can also be cartoonish. With that out of the way, the apostrophe may not be needed… unless that was also a bit of slang.

Adorable… that’s really Polly’s theme, isn’t it? The antics, the sheer power of personality which leaves one just staring at the screen. Somewhere down the line, usually after the EM-dash, the narrative voice blends with the character… and screams like a little girl. I really do like this. At the height of action, Polly does the sensible thing and runs for her life begging for divine deliverance from what might as well be Satan. From the look of it, I think I’m supposed to be laughing, and I am, mission accomplished.

Please do not post pictures of bunnies. They are too distracting.

On the flashback… I somehow don’t think too much of it. Its an Aesop about courage being the way through the present fears. Okay. Most of the time, there is some kind of deep nostalgia, or infectious emotion. I read it, its over, and I’m not entirely certain it was necessary.

“In the real world things are very different, you just need to look around you. Nobody wants to die that way. People die of disease and accident. Death comes suddenly and there is no notion of good or bad. It leaves not dramatic feeling but great emptiness.“ Somehow, this seems to be the most appropriate responses to Polly’s victory. No war dances. No regarding her opponent as a kill to be proud of. I… respect that… and then I wonder, “Why the hell did she come here?” I don’t think that was ever answered, she just showed up.


And her opponent, Wolfman2020 “the Hounds”

FIRST POST: Chop

{Style, baby, style}
Wolfman, read this: “His blue eyes skimming the rooftops watching as the birds took flight.” That sentence might not be the best way to lead into anything, first you need to establish something about him before you start with “His.” The use of that pronoun makes me wonder who he is right of the bat, this is good, but it looks wrong. Changing subject without stating a name, even from the very beginning, is not very satisfying, and in paragraphs with more than one subject, a name is best so I know who you are talking about.

After those first two words. Perhaps:”… blue eyes skimmed the rooftops, and he watched as the birds took flight.” WAIT! I get it! It looks wrong because “took” is past tense in the original sentence, and by ending with that word the entire line is spoiled, proving that how you end a sentence can retroactively screw the line over. This occurs several times for you, which I’ll leave Artemis to point out, he’s very good at that. All I’ll say is that you may want to avoid the word, “was” and its son, “were” else wise they kick you’re style in the shin.

Moving on, I like your use of the present tense, it places everything about that character in the here and now. If unusual, it really makes the point that werewolves are too busy living to spend much time with backwards thinking, and in battle perish the man whose mind is backward. I’d like you to commit to this however, or descend to the beaten path of past tense, so far you seem to be experimenting, which I like, but its not quite perfect yet. Of course, keep in mind that it is a combination which makes a good style, just what kind of combination is up to you.

All that said, leading with brief flashing instances of appearance and thought might need to be fine tuned with terms that describe the severity of his lupine affliction, otherwise he comes to mind as normal, and that’s okay, but you see… it doesn’t do much to entertain without some kind of extra description. In my mind, he is a semi/nude blue-eyed hobo; given that you mention his feet are bare, he has spent two decades training in the wild, and there is no mention to him wearing clothes at all until long after you‘ve introduced him… which involved stripping in the wild. >_> Hobo... If this is not the case, you may want to leave more clues to his appearance.

The actions need more “OOOOOOOmph” some of the things he does when stated flatly come off as somewhat… bland. Example: “Okay, this is awesome, I'm gonna make this my favorite place and be sure to come back more then once.” You don’t mention how he says this. I mean, he sounds excited, but in what way? Is he going to lift his leg on a tree? You just have him walking around, now how is doing it.

I should roll up my magazine and beat you. Bad Wolfman, even using bold, fonts are no excuse not to use quotation marks. They are a staple, not a choice, you really aren’t allowed in most cases to make stylistic choices about whether they are included or not. Likewise, commas separating the spoken word from that of action is also something of a requirement.

Now, here you have you’re silent protagonist being shuffled toward the future by a mind reading monk. I don’t like that set up, its somewhat contrived to make the easiest entrance possible. I realize that there aren’t many exceptional ways to enter into a battle for life and death, but at the very least say something about it if you aren’t willing to scale walls and knock out guards, otherwise this loses some of its appeal for me.

ONWARD HO!
Finally, the beast is out! And that’s… okay. I’d like to see less human mannerisms in things that are no longer claiming to be human… or anything remotely sapien, for that matter. He’s marking trees, panting, ears twitching, and… smiling. As before, there isn’t a great wealth of emotion in your character. He is there, he is watching. There is concern evident in his thoughts, his mind composing thoughts as though unaffected by the werewolf he has become. I’d like to suggest more feelings, and less coherent thoughts, simply because he comes off as a man in wolves clothing. On the bright side, you’ve shaken off the hobo sensation. Now the running comparison between woman and animal could go badly regardless of intent. The use of the minor wolf was… strange. He pulls it… then pets it… then gives it a mission… to which it “bounces” bounces into… The execution of this scene strikes the heart as weird.

Okay… “Luscious angry! Luscious now has glowing white eyes! Werewolf brandish branch like monkey, and make death threats with free hand!” See, again, I feel he is more man than beast. You establish he is supernatural early on, but it doesn’t stick because Luscious keeps making human gestures. In keeping with most writers are human, its easy to get caught up in saying one thing, and doing another. Perhaps viewing some documentaries on actual wolf behavior, or looking into how rabies affects such animals. Admit it, a werewolf is often portrayed as rabid, and that is the direction I see you trying to take most often. Then I see him making cocky faces… which is impossible to really imagine as wolves don’t have the same bone structure for that kind of expression to really carry over. Looking at the expressions wolves make, and then describing in some detail might help.

You’re handling of your wounds doesn’t describe the size or severity, but the effect. At first I’m thinking, he’s been scarred, but its pretty much skin deep. Now it’s a bloody death wound, which will slowly sap his strength. I’d appreciate just the feeling of some kind of perimeter to the scar. In later posts, the face wound sounds like Polly cleaved off his snout. Then there is the matter of his back being cut… which having arteries and a spine would sound more likely to have him bleed to death without having his face cut open through the bone.

The last two posts from you were rather lackluster for me. Things are as they are stated. There is no more reference to the animal brain influencing him. He is losing. He is dying. To no great dramatic effect am I drawn to this character in his last moments. This is the end, and I am somewhat disappoint rather than sad. Even for the bad guy, dying should be something that draws a person toward the character. Not make them watch it like day time television, and wrap it up as something vaguely important.

IN RETROSPECT YOU TWO TOGETHER!

The path you two started on was so different it was strange. Two very different genres met, and slowly over time Polly gave in to the horror, sometimes bringing bits of light, but the moment she encountered Luscious directly was the moment this thread officially got dark. This is normal, just pointing out the sudden shift in topics from fumbling antics and minor wolf petting to a life or death struggle bathed in blood.

You two worked together on the ending, which I liked, which made it possible for a more cohesive battle. My only complaint is that I felt more emotion on one side than the other. I’d expect two different experiences of the same event from different sides to be similar or polar opposites. Instead, I saw a scared girl fighting a wolf that was quickly losing its own interest in this battle. This again comes down to Luscious’ animal instincts. He makes no mention of fear, he makes no mention of blood lust… and he is the aggressor. I can only wonder why Luscious didn’t run? The ending doesn't seem justified.

It was a fun read, but the questions I asked bothered me up until the end. And they still do. Any comment?

[Sweet Polly Oliver]

(This is sort of a sidenote, but I’d appreciate it if people included who they thought the overall victor should be in their reviews. I notice that’s not something that’s happened in some of the workshop battle threads thus far and I think it’s useful. Thanks!)

I’ll hold off on replying to Artemis until he finishes his post.

Knave:

You have a good point about the accent; I’ve been trying hard to find a good balance between annoying and adding flavor to the dialogue. It definitely differentiates her speech from other people’s, though, which is something I like about it.

I like pictures of bunnies. :c

Anyway, I certainly agree with most of the points you made, and thank you very much for your input, I appreciate it greatly! That was a good review. ^^

[Wolfman 20]

From what I've read from above, Both Artemis and Knave have good points.

Knave:
I see you as a person who pays attention to the smaller details. That is a good thing. As for your commentary, it's greatly appreciated. It could help me and maybe Polly down the road. I will try my best to better my writing. As for now, that is the best I could muster at this time. But I understand what you mean when you're asking about why he never ran and the blood lust.

It's cause he's in control of his wolf. He's had time to gain control of his wolf. Now if the moon in the sky had been real, then his wolf would have overpowered him and went berserk on the poor girl. But killing her off the bat would not be good so I made the moon not effect him in anyway.

As for your other comments, I will try my damndest to better myself. Besides, aren't we all here just to have fun and make friends? Well this is both for me. So thanks again Knave.

[Knave]

No problem, and sorry, I felt kinda bad writing all that.

[Wolfman 20]

No problem, and sorry, I felt kinda bad writing all that.

Don't be. It's the truth from your perspective. You wrote it cause it's what you felt, and besides, it will help Polly and I in the future, hopefully.

[The Thirtenth Sons.]

Well it looks you two took your argument IC XD

Alright lets start by tackling one thing I noticed in the first post. It seems wrote in present tense. Don't get me wrong, that's fine, but it also wrecked some of the clarity for me due to me having to read an reread the post to really pick up on what was going on. my mind is jut sorta wired that way.

Polly I loved your first post. I don;t know if it's your writing style or what but it was definitely good. You made good work of the provided scene, and I fell in love with the character of Polly. Such a naive sort of character.

Post three: again I see some present tense mixed with past tense. The clarity was a little messed up by that. Then you get the wolf, I'm not sure about the citadel but I'm sure user created stages don't contain animals. Maybe had you stated in post one he heard the cries of wolves I would buy it, but again whatever.

Post four, again Polly seems...Naive. Which is good, her personality is a great change of pace. You get some action in there, some humor, a little bit of dialog, pretty good.

Posts five and six, alright its time for a fight! Wait...did she just run away? We got some symbolism, action, and foreshadowing from Polly. Wolf needs to work on clarity, suddenly calling the wolf his brother confused me.

Posts seven and eight, alright we've got approved bunnying, Wolf you need to focus more on clarity, the details are nice, but make the story easier to read. Polly you go into detail on the whole set-up, and add a flashback in. I'm not a total fan unless they say something important to the plot. Her father telling her about bravery. I'd say that fits well.

The last few posts lost a lot of clarity. It seemed choreographed, but forced. Honestly you two spent two posts actually fighting, the Wolfie's dead and Polly walks off. I hardly understood what happened.

[Ruby]

Since so much ground has been covered in intricate detail, and I'm somewhat off my trolley rocking out to the new Klaxon's album, Surfing the Void, allow me to pander a few thoughts about that have cropped up during the course of reading this battle. I'll keep it short, or at least, keep it short for me, as I don't want to risk repeating what's already been said to club you to death with the same errata/praise.

Ella: Biggest flaw and at the same, the biggest praise about your writing (with this character, at least) is her borderline colloquialism. You clearly try to portray an accent, with the use of elision, conjunction and slang speech that would be typical amongst the 'commoner's of Althanas, but it comes across as awkward, and non-de-script. I admire the effort, I try to do it myself with Duffy, Ruby and Lillith, and I still get it epically wrong (most) of the time, so I advice you to consider three things:

1. Where is Polly from? Simple really, set her to a geographical location and really drive it home (but not to excess). If she's from Radasanth, give her one-liners that refer to locations in Corone, incidents in Radasanth's history or little 'quips she might have picked up in the bazaar from more distant lands.

2. What sort of person is Polly? You know this more than anyone else, so make sure you constantly remind yourself who she is, so that it comes through in your writing. We get the impression that she's a down to earth paladin type, dedicated, confused, wet behind the ears but stubborn in a grass between the teeth yokel sort of way - right? How you put that across has to be more than solid descriptors and pointing the obvious. You are one of most clarity driven and mechanically accurate writers on Althanas, and there's little difficult in reading your writing, but I think you've not clicked to her 'soul' yet - I'd not expect anyone to do so after what, three threads, so keep it up and you should slot right into the mantle of Polly, fit into her pocket, so to speak (bad pun is bad!)

3. Where will Polly be in five years time? This is an important question we should all ask about our characters. Do you write with no future, or write for the future? Will the Sparrow God grow, ascend in power or form and take Polly to a chiselled, weather-worn new height? Will they remain young and innocent and without a clue, scrabbling for the notoriety and pious living they aspire to? Foreshadowing is an effective tool, little hints at Polly overcoming mistrust of killing, or overcoming her fear of the monster in the dark can be powerful tools to develop you character score.

That being said, the strongest part of your game here is your character. She was identifiable, likeable, stuck to her guns and din't step out of her own well defined lines. It is a commendable, match winning writing streak that contended with the scary, wolfy opponent well!

Mechanics - nigh flawless, but the technique in your writing is a little over simplified. Perhaps I say that because I've seen you write so much better - your performance as Ulysses in the Cell, and especially our previous battle on the lilly pads - you've been away a while, I understand, I guess I'm scrambling for better days, and hope you get back on your creative flow soon enough!

Wolfman: I've not encountered your character before, but I have to say, despite the consistent mechanical and technical errors throughout, you have a good, solid grasp of the werewolf, the primal savagery hidden in the beast's eyes that in time, I hope well develop into a multi-tonal analysis of the anger you obviously want the character himself to display.

I recommend the three P's when going into another thread:

P for Patience: A vital tool, unless you've both agreed to just have fun and hammer through without a care, taking your time to read your opponent's post, double read your own, and make sure they flow juridically into another really does serve as just desserts. Continuity, persona, clarity, mechanics, they all are based heavily on taking your time. As has been stated, there's one or two moments when I genuinely had to double read, lost as I was in the drudgery of unconscious thought, speechless speech and confusingly described actions (which feels hypocritical coming from me, hehe!)

P for Proofreading: Absolutely a must. Read, re-read, leave it an hour, do it again, leave it a day, do it again. To ease off the mistakes you've made as noted by the others, before you post, read the previous two posts to ensure there's no glaring errors. You will start to pick up errors naturally once it's been pointed out once, and it'll be second nature to correct as you write once you've been exposed to the fundamentals we all miss - untill, hypens, apostrophe use is something many adults still can't do, and I know I can't remember its, it's and it is myself!

P for Pedantry: If you are confused or are stuck for where to go next, or what is appropriate, do not be afraid to discuss it with your opponent - I'm not suggesting you needed to here, it's just friendly advice, to both of you for that matter. The best battles on Althanas have been mutual threads, not writers at loggerheads with different ideologies and styles - work together, with a dagger behind your back!

The Verdict: Ella has asked for me to state who I believed should win the battle. Whilst in the end, it's a collective decision tallied against the rubric, in this instance, I think the flags should be waving for Sweet Polly Oliver. We all have room for improvement, we all have weaknesses, I know you're both determined and happy in your own styles to continue improving and having fun - from the writing and attitudes, it's clear you enjoyed writing it, and in turn, the reader will enjoy reading it.

May the best man/girl/wolf win!

[Revenant]

The previous posters have all put good information in, so I’m going to just give you a basic overview of my thoughts.

Wolfman:

I’ve found that a good story can be ruined by bad grammar and spelling. You switch the point of view of your writing constantly, sometimes in mid-sentence. This makes reading your posts very erratic, requiring me to mentally jump back and forth to adjust. As a judge, if I were doing your thread analysis, I can tell you that this alone would have impacted your pacing, mechanics, technique, and clarity scores. Another major issue is the improper way you write your dialogue. I would recommend reviewing how to correctly write dialogue.

Next, your descriptions are average. Part of the problem is that you write to quickly, moving from idea to idea without fleshing them out. Remember that more is not always better. Painting a few elegant scenes will get the reader into the story much more than throwing out twice as many mediocre tidbits of information.

For example:

His bare feet kicking up the dirt as he makes his way down the street. Passing a blacksmith, an inn, and even a pub, he just keeps his eyes on the prize.

What do the buildings look like, why would he want to look at them in the first place? Does he hear the sounds of merriment or smell the wonderful scent of fresh baked bread? What does it matter that he focuses solely on the Citadel if there’s really no sense of why that is significant? Heck, I don’t even know if its day or night in Radasanth as you come into town.

Your battle scenes aren’t bad, but you need to make sure that you keep track of everything that is going on. You mention in Post #8 that your opponent is unconscious when no such thing had occurred. It could be construed as powergaming and should be avoided.

You have a decent base to your writing, but still have a ways to go. I have no doubt that you will smooth out the wrinkles with continued writing efforts.

Polly:

As always, your writing is a pleasure to read. The biggest area of concern that I would have, were I judging this, is the lack of setting that you show. You mention the barest hints of things here and there, but for the most part I feel like your character is mostly in a void. Aside from that the biggest issue that I have is the times that your slip into thought stream mid-sentence. This breaks the flow of the writing, forcing me to abruptly switch gears. You seem to have a very good grasp of your character and I look forward to reading more from you.

[Zerith]

Tis the darkest of nights.

Before I post the scores, I want to give you guys a quick thanks for the read and to leave a few comments.

Wolfman - I think you need to work on the present tense you used, although it was nice to see something different. So try to keep working on it, and I think you'll eventually get the hang of it. Remember to proofread, or at least come back to a post a day or two later just to read it again and make any necessary edits.

Polly - After having the chance to write with you, I wasn't surprised to see you made Polly seem believable. While naive, she comes off as being genuine. I know this time the battle only took place in a forest, but I was a little disappointed you didn't really use the setting as much has you have in our battle, or the one against Duffy. I personally think you could have done better, this just seemed average. Though I guess you probably think you're just dusting yourself off or something.

Should either if you have any questions, feel free to ask me anytime.

Anyways, onto the rubric. The score is listed as Wolfman/Polly



STORY - 11/15


CHARACTER - 12/17


WRITING STYLE - 11/16


WILD CARD – 5/5


FINAL SCORE - 39/53


Rewards:

Sweet Polly Oliver receives 500 EXP and 80 GP!

Wolfman 20 receives 100 EXP and 70 GP!



Knave, being the most helpful contributor, receives 100 EXP and 100 GP!

Ruby La Roux receives 200 EXP and 50 GP!

Revenant receives 300 EXP and 50 GP!

The Thirtenth Sons receives 100 EXP and 50 GP!

SirArtemis receives 200 GP and 50 GP!

[Silence Sei]

exp-gp added.