Out in the Woods Tonight Workshop

[Zerith]

Fatina has requested a workshop for her solo, "Out In The Woods Tonight". So whenever you get some spare time, I encourage all of you to go read it. Then, when you're finished, you can come back here and help Fatina get an idea how they're doing with their writing and offer some suggestion. Just try to keep things positive, okay?

This thread will be open to comments for a minimum of two weeks. Afterwards, a rubric will be posted and people who contribute will receive their rewards too!

So what are you still doing here? Start reading!

Out In The Woods Tonight (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?t=17476)

[SirArtemis]

it's only 5 posts. Should I continue?

[Zerith]

Yes, Fatina really wants some words of improvement. Although it's not finished. I'm sure if people shared some of their thoughts and gave some advice it would be really appreciated.

[Scrotus]

I will be adding more to this as time goes on, but I'll just stick with this one post to avoid clutter.

To start this all of I'd like to say welcome to the site Fatina, if this is your first time on Althanas. Also, I'd like to include that you have some serious guts making your first thread a Workshop, it's almost admirable. With all that out of the way, lets begin.

As I was reading through the first and second posts I started to lose interest a bit. The only thing I could say in particular about this is that you need to avoid overwhelming the reader with too much information at once. Throughout the first two posts I found myself stopping, re-reading, taking a break for composures sake, then repeating the process again several more times. At this point I still don't fully grasp where your character is from, where she is currently, and what her intentions are. The only advice I can give you to help with this is avoiding the petty details that will not come to play within the story. You spent a whole two paragraphs describing the moon, night, and creatures riled up by it. Thats cool and all, but what purpose did it serve in the story?

While we're on that note I'd like to go over why you included your character entire adult life history into two paragraphs. You spent as much time describing the moon as you did your characters history. I felt so overwhelmed in the first post with all the information given. If your going to include character history, try to do it in a way that doesn't distract from the actual story you're trying to tell.

Besides that I can also include that you need to read through your posts, and read through them well.

I will include more as time goes by and you throw more posts up.

Thanks for the read Fatina, after the first two posts things started to pick up and I found myself enjoying it. I like the interaction between the guard and her before she rips him a new one, it was actually pretty funny. "Pelvic thrust," really makes the guy sound like a dog, which is what I'd expect from a lowly guardsman.

[Fatina]

Thanks for the comment! Should I have not posted this here? I guess I should clear up space for serious writers. Ha!

Scrotus, you are entirely right. Just now I realized how silly it is that I put more detail on the night that on her story. I'll make sure I focus on the task at hand instead of overly describing. Short an simple next time?

I must admit my heavy-context writing is something I've been trying to fix for the past years. It is not an excuse, especially since I know the source, but it is mostly due to English being my second language. Spanish being my original language I still use a lot of the very long, very general Latin words that are not very specific. I see all I end up doing is bluing things for the reader. Less passive more active!

I see my issues more clearly now, again, thanks for the feedback!

[Duffy]

I'll give this a whirl sometime this evening or tomorrow, I will be unemployed again then and able to think coherently for more than two minutes at a time!

[SirArtemis]

I don't want to go too in depth but I'll point out some things I notice that I advise, but this is my personal opinion. I'm a college grad, but not in anything related to writing. It's just some ideas. Take what you want and leave the rest behind.


For starts, I would recommend limiting your use of "phrases" that are culturally specific. Something like this:

"Fatina had already been knocked off her right mind"

can be really difficult to understand. In fact, even I have a hard time understanding what you mean.




Also, as for the second language thing. It can be seen in your writing, and I understand how it can be difficult, but you are doing pretty well. There are some points where I think you use the wrong word or maybe construct an idea while trying to be too eloquent, and all that really happens is that you lose me as a reader.



There were some mechanical errors, typos, clarity issues and such. The story itself, I think my favorite part was how much I started to dislike the woman for using her sexuality as a tool against men, but mostly it's because I'm a man who hates when that happens.

[Caellach]

Scrotus and Artemis have already suggested the major points I would've made, but I'll try to add on some minor suggestions.

Going along with what Scrotus said, spacing out descriptions can really help avoid sensory overload. Even if it's just a sentence description, one or two thoughts/actions, another sentence description, repeat, the thoughts/actions help to break it up.

As for including parts about your character's history, I tend to like it when people include little bits appropriately placed throughout, rather than one time. For instance, talk about her necromancy/magic before you turn into the wolf-thing, and maybe talk about the war later on when you're discussing her like/dislike of killing. Sometimes giving a very quick general history near the beginning can be effective if you can find a good place for it, but doing too much at once just runs into the same problems as including too much scenery at once.

Overall I thought it was a good first solo, and I thought it gave a pretty good impression of her personality. Aside from the super-detailed paragraphs at the start I thought the pace was fairly consistent throughout, and you described action with a good balance of details.

As the other two said, proofreading can definitely help. Your writing (in my opinion) is great for being a 2nd language, but just going back through to check for things as simple as typos of "he" instead of "she" or "her" can really help clarity. I enjoyed reading it; next time maybe just try to make it a little longer, space out your details, and do your best at checking for simple typos or grammatical errors. I look forward to seeing more writing from you, good first start!

[Fuzzie]

I feel like there's not much left to add, but I'll try my best to post up some helpful feedback.

Firstly, I'd like to say that in the category of story and character I find you did quite well. Contrary to what the others said I enjoyed reading through the first post and your description of the past - while lengthy it helped set the scene for your character's background, and the tiny details (the days of the raid, exile for 'dark magic', the idea that 'dark magic' doesn't seem remotely bad to her) would explain her actions yet to come.

Now for the bones of the writing itself. As the others mentioned, you could improve much by proofreading. You use some words that are a different form of what you want to say (i.e. were --> where), which is understandable since English isn't your first language. When writing and you're not sure of which form of a word that has different spellings but the same sound to use (too, two, to), I suggest looking it up in a dictionary. By seeing the definitions of such words, you could definitely remove some minor typos.

As for your sentences and their mechanics, not too many problems here. With the exception of a few sentences here and there, I could perfectly understand your message you were trying to convey. Again, reading and rereading your posts would help you greatly. You were liberal in your use of commas, and I feel as though it hurt you when writing by breaking up the sentences too much. Read it aloud with pauses at each comma to see how it sounds. Some sentences were downright hard to understand.


It was such a hassle that the art she loved the most required that kind of ingredients, when had she become so reckless, and so damn cold-blooded?
It seems to me like you're integrating her thoughts into the narration, and it gets confusing. What helps me and might help you is separating her thoughts and using them as internal dialogue:


It was such a hassle that the art she loved the most required those kinds of ingredients.

"When did I become so reckless and so damn cold-blooded," she thought.

Overall a good read, and I hope to see it finished some day.

[orphans]

Well, definitely would like to see this finished so that we can see and read more. Besides what everyone has said already, I don’t have much more to add.

Proof-reading would be able to help you as well. If possible, try to find a friend or something to read their posts and in return, do the same. It’s easier to catch someone else’s mistake than your own.

As for over describing settings and actions, I feel that if the narrator does it consistently or it’s in the personality of the character to see everything as such, it could work, but being consistent is really the key, at least I believe so. That being said, consistency is actually hard to do…

There was also a bit of repetition in post 5, about “It was all ok now, killing was not an issue. Killing was not an issue.” Not sure if it was intentional or not, but if intentional, I feel as though the second sentence, if worded differently, would do much better.

For example: “It was all okay now, killing was not an issue. Killing will never be an issue.”

I do love how the intro sets the tone of a , “vile mood” and I would really like to see you push it even more and I’m quite curious to see what you do with your solo.

One thing that did lose me a bit was the sudden mention of a “plasma needle.” I mean, I suppose I could go look at the character sheet and find out what it does, but not all readers do so.

One more thing that tripped me up was how the character casts a light spell. I’m assuming to illuminate her handiwork, but wouldn’t the other tower guard (if he’s not drunk as well and sleeping) see it? Or is that what we’ll see in the next post?

Either way, please, please, PLEASE, keep going. Need more.

[Tshael]

Forgive me if anything I mention has been brought up before, as I didn't read the posts before me.


STORY (15/30)
I think you did a great job in Continuity with her background in necromancy. It didn't feel like you were just going down a grocery list of her past, but actual memories. I would have liked a little more about what reagents she needed and why. Even if it was just to stock up for practice spell-casting, I was unsure if there was a point to it. You left the thing watching her in secret, and were this a longer quest I would have liked to see more about that. However, this had the makings of the beginning of a full quest and I am treating it as such, and having that mystery there is quite nice.

One thing I'd really love to see in here is more description when it comes to the sense of touch. For example, you told me in post 4 that she could feel her knife slicing his guts. How did that feel different than a slice that didn't hit organs? Did the knife give her resistance that needed an extra push? Perhaps she felt a well of blood bubbling over her hands? Maybe it wasn't touch sensory but hearing, a specific rip of flesh that told her she'd gone deep enough, the squealch of inner organs ripping open in blood and bile. When you write a protagonist with a moral compass that decidedly points south, you really have to bring the reader into that character, or else in their head they'll be reading about the villain and waiting for the real hero to come along. Remember that the setting is far more than just the area and background of the story. It can encompass the NPCs and their body fluids. To reach from the gut up towards the heart is quite a stretch, how did it feel for her to have his blood and fluids all up her arm? How long did it take once she'd removed her arm for the blood to chill in the air? These tiny details will really bring things to life.

Also, be careful not to contradict yourself. In the first post you said:


The breeze blew once again, cutting her skin like cold stones. Yet she felt nothing, or could not bring herself to; the excitement alone captivated her mind entirely.

If she couldn't feel the wind, how did she know it was cutting into her? This could just be awkward phrasing, especially combined with the idea that stones are more for bashing and less cutting in my mind.

Pacing was great here until the end. I didn't feel bored with the beginning and you kept the pace of the thread building up to her entrance of the city. Once you'd killed the guard you moved very quickly through her acquisition of items from the man. Just keep in mind that the conclusion of your thread is possibly the most important part. The last words you write will be the ones most firm in the memory of your audience. You made a mention of Alastor (as well as spelled his name incorrectly) but until I read your profile, I had no idea what or who he was. Those last two paragraphs were four sentences combined, and kind of confusing. What did the intestine have to do with anything? She read a spell on her head, or from memory? I don't know. It was like your thread was a guy, walking, jogging and as the action began to build, he begins to run. Then he runs right off a cliff. I wish that the conclusion had been up to my expectations based on the rest of the writing.


CHARACTER (20/30)

Of the dialogue, I thought it was well done. No villainous speeches before she kills him, and the way you portrayed his misinterpretation of her words was great.

The action itself of your character was good. We have a strong, morally tainted woman with a wicked sense of humor and a very clear desire going forth to take what she wants from the world. At no point did you fail to portray that in your actions, even in the moment where she had a pause of introspection on her kill. I also really liked that, and felt it was a touch that the thread needed. Whatever was taken away from the action happened mostly because of pacing and technique problems. I'm incredibly intrigued with this character and am eager to read more.


WRITING STYLE (15/30)

As for technique, I feel that you have quite a bit of work ahead of you in this area. There were some very beautiful turn of phrases, alliterations and metaphor woven through the narrative, so I believe you're on the right track but one thing that I think you should do is start to read out loud all of your posts before submitting them. The flow is choppy and often the way you choose to word things can be absolutely awkward. It takes away from the story that you're trying to write. A huge thing that can help is to find a beta-tester of sorts. By finding someone to read what you write first can help clear these sentences up, because if they generally tend to ask what's going on if they get to a sentence that doesn't make any sense.

Here's an example of one of the sentences that I'm talking about, from post 1:


Fatina whispered to herself, her eyes not moving, nor blinking or closing for moisture even a second, they watered profusely.

This is a run on sentence, first of all. There are times when a list such as this can enhance the narrative, but if used incorrectly it just reads like a grocery list. "We need to get this, and this, and this, and this." It would serve the purpose better to end the sentence after her whisper, and then go on to describe how her eyes were overflowing with tears in her excitement because she refused to so much as blink. It would have been better even to just remove the "or closing for moisture even a second," and then put a semicolon after "blinking". Taking that out works because you've already described eyes closing for moisture, as that's what blinking is.

For true grammar, it's not terribly bad. I noticed that in a lot of places you used words that were incorrect but wouldn't be caught by spellcheck - "on" instead of "of" or "where" instead of "were" are common mistakes. Very careful proofreading will catch it. Sometimes the eye will gloss over something like that because we know in our heads what it's supposed to say. I've found that if I get up and come back to edit after about fifteen minutes or so, it helps me catch those pesky little buggers. In the middle of post three, you switched from past to present tense for a moment.

Working on your technique will help with clarity. Aside from those awkward phrases that threw me for a loop, and the very end where it was too rushed, everything that happened I could visualize. Great job.


WILD CARD (8/10 points)
I'm looking forward to seeing what you write next. I hope that the commentary you've gotten from the Workshop helps you to create an even more intriguing chapter in Fatina's story.


Total (58)

[Fatina]

Thanks to everyone for their feedback , it was certainly more than I was hoping for.

I really wasn't expecting anyone to want to read more of this. I wrote it near a Halloween when I was on that whimsical wicked mood. Maybe I'll do the second part this Halloween season?

Again, thanks everyone, you've all been very helpful.

[Zerith]

Out in the Woods Tonight.

Alright, let me say first that I'm very disappointed to see that you were unable to finish the thread. I enjoyed this to the point where I really hope to see the conclusion to this someday. I'll get straight to the condensed rubric now, but if you have any questions about antyhing please feel free to send me a PM.


STORY - 15/30

CHARACTER - 16/30

WRITING STYLE - 16/30

WILD CARD - 7

FINAL SCORE - 54!



Rewards:

Fatina receives 178 EXP and 54 GP!

Scrotus receives 100 EXP and 50 GP!
SirArtemis receives 200 EXP and 50 GP!
Caellach receives 150 EXP and 50 GP!
Fuzzie receives 100 EXP and 50 GP!
Orphans receives 150 EXP and 50 GP!
Tshael, being the top contributor, receives 300 Exp and 100 EXP

[Taskmienster]

Exp and GP added for everyone!