Just Sayin' Workshop

[Zerith]

Chromanon Rockskin and Stumbleduck have requested a Workshop for a thread they recently completed. Their primarily concerned with the dialogue in the thread. So when you guys have some time I spare, I bet they would appreciate if it we could all look over it and try to make some suggestions.

As per the usual routine, this thread will be open for two weeks. During that time members are encouraged to share their comments and opinions, but I'd like to ask you guys keep this positive. Okay?

Once the time is up a rubric will be posted shortly afters, and contributors will be rewarded. Seriously, who doesn't like get a reward for helping someone?

So get comfortable in your seats and get to reading!

Just Sayin' - An Exercise in Dialogue (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?t=21708)

[SirArtemis]

There really isn't much to go on with this one but I'll do what I can.

Mechanically this thread was pretty solid, but there were some points that confused me. For one, there was a ... I don't even remember what the literary word is for it, but "smart as a whip." Personally, I thought it was sharp as a whip. A whip can't be smart since it's just an object, can it?

The story itself was pleasant to read and very believable, but I felt really disappointed. It was so brief that it didn't have any time to really draw the reader in. That entire thread could have been one post in a bigger thread.

This didn't leave much room for technique, or tension, or much character development either. The dialogue did give some feeling to the pair of characters, and the dialogue was distinct between the two, yet even still, there could have been more.

The reference to red skin and horns makes me think demon, so I'm not sure if that's true still. It makes me think that maybe she's a warlock of sorts and can summon demons, and is more powerful than she seems. On top of that, her eccentricity made me initially think that she was saying "I've never had coffee before" but the implication being never before NOW, and the caffeine was really affecting her.


There really isn't much to say. I enjoyed the brief story but again it seems like one piece of a much bigger puzzle, and I wish you had taken the time to develop more of a story. It's like you took the time to set up so much, but it went nowhere, and left the reader asking "so what was the point?"


Hope this helps and doesn't come off as harsh. Trying to be constructive. Message me with any questions.

[Zook Murnig]

SirArtemis, I wonder if you have any comments for Stumbleduck? You seem to have forgotten him entirely.

[SirArtemis]

I was just giving an overall view of the thread and what stood out. I wasn't really trying to separate it by author. I like the gnome character and he seemed believable. I could actually envision the character in my mind and put a personality to him and even some of his family. Again though, I wanted to see more of where this was going. It just seemed like a very brief exchange.


Zooks I'm going to try to add a bit more for you.


The dialogue for me was plain and predictable. There's nothing fantastic about it. It might as well be an awkward blind date that two people are having at a coffee shop. It's simple, nothing really exciting. I honestly don't even remember a setting, if there was one. I just imagine them sitting at the plainest of circular wooden tables on plain wooden chairs with a plain white porcelain cup for the coffee and a plain transparent colorless glass for the juice. I don't even know what kind of juice.

There wasn't much to really go off of and it's a very forgettable thread. I don't even know what the intent of it is, and the best I can guess is that Zook wants a job and the lady wants a home for the puppy. I suppose both accomplish that. It was a quick read though and it didn't give anything to the reader.

Something more could have been added to give the dog more personality, and the characters too for that matter. All it seemed like was the plainest of the plain and it just wasn't exciting to read. The actions were plain, the scenery was plain, the dialogue was plain, the characters were plain. I mean sure, it's very believable. As I said, there's probably a similar conversation going on in a Starbucks somewhere this very moment. The really solid aspects of this thread were that it was pretty straight forward and has minimal errors. Then again, there isn't much written to give you the chance to mess that up.

In a phrase, this thread is like an unseasoned meal.

[Knave]

You know, I read the first line, and my mind instantly rejected the concept of the thread. Not because of the structure being based on dialogue, which is wonderful, but that there was a kender in this b****, Hasselhoff was pretty damn annoying to read for me.

"An so then, I went and I thought that he needed a home 'cause everybody needs a home. You know?"

Kender: That’s one sentence, with no period. The most jarring thing about this post is that I don’t understand who you are talking to. The handling of the hoopak in addition to being called a gnome suggested irritation, potentially violent irritation, but instead was merely leading up to your counterpart’s description. I’d advise checking the order of your sentences, else it comes off a bit sudden.

You might also want to mention speed a bit more in your description, because while Zook registers the unreasonable battering of words, I don’t until he says as much. Given your use of imperfect grammar in speech runningyourwordstogethermighthelptoconveytheunnatu ralandalmostunitelligiblespeedyourcharacterisusing , but that’s mainly to depict how much crack your character seems to be on. It would interesting to see minor bits of speech formatted to be almost unintelligible, but alternatingly amusing or profound, but ultimately passed over, something for the reader willing to squint and make sense of what they had just seen.

I gotta say, flitting between topics is perhaps one of the best ways to show the utter scattering of thoughts toward events. She does a good job expressing something about each place she’s been to. Most kender I’ve read—just few, but most just the same—still have enough of a mind to remember something glaringly superficial, and that raises more questions than were ever, EVER answered. This is achieved, but I think you can do better, I don’t have enough to questions to really wonder what else happened in her past.

How wonderful, you’ve really got this part of her history down, and given a plausible reason as to why a kender is so incredibly resilient to emotional pain, complete avoidance. Here I am ready to cry, and there she is ready to laugh.. okay, I wasn’t about to cry, too strong for that, but still, I felt something, and that shows something in itself. Now given I was tasked with useful input, I’m struggling with how to improve, really, you’ve covered this pretty well. My only issue is the persisting despondency, kender can go years without seeing people they love, children can go for a long time without ever seeing their parents. Sad to say, this scenes end would work for almost anyone else, and I forgive it because it was damn good. I trust you will extend this treatment to other characters.

“excellent stock - just as her husband was.” O_= I could read into that, but I won’t. Instead I’ll mention that this thread has increasingly become family oriented, and I have no idea what Chromanon would be like as a mother. On the one hand, I expect she’d lose the kid, but on the other she takes care of the puppy so well, and you really do warrant the question.

Zook, you don’t bother to use the imperfections of grammar to add inflection to your speech, which renders your character less annoying, but also less because I don’t get too much description of how he speaks, emotions or otherwise. He mentions relations to dwarves, but expresses fewer opinions. I for one would have like to hear about Dwarfo-elfin relations.

Plot wise, you should have mentioned your coffee being filled with sugar, simply because there isn’t enough agony involved with your characters interaction with his partner. In this post, you mention sheep bounding through their fields high on beans, explain that he is addicted, and has had two cups of coffee already. Why is he still unable to match Thok? by now I’d expect them to be on the same plane of existence, vibrant and vibrating beings of energy! Yet Zook here could just as easily be waking in the early morning without having taken a single sip of his deliciously bitter potion. At the very least have him bemoan his ever growing tolerance to the chemical power surging through his veins.

This is what I’m talking about, we have a despondent Chromanon, she’s sad, you relate. Thing is, you’re relating to her in the same way she related to you, and not the same way she related to the reader. There are a lot of things in the post where you mention his family. He has kids, more than one. He has a wife he hasn’t seen in a long time. He has to leave them. Why am I not moved to the manly equivalent of tears? Because I get the sensation you didn’t really want to go there, its fine if the character doesn’t, but the narrator has a job to do. I’d like to point out that I know almost nothing about either of you but what you tell me, and how you tell me. If ever there was a time to lay on the pathos, this is it. When President Obama announced on national tv his kids were getting a dog , that was a warm moment for anyone of any faction, when you suggest it, I see a proposition that doesn’t touch on the happiness the dog will bring. Not even the mention of breed, as I’m sure gnomes riding on dogback isn’t so outlandish.

I’d like to suggest more qualifying adjectives to your characters recollection of his children, unless you want to make it seem like he doesn’t know them quite well enough to give better descriptions. That might be the case, as he has said as much, or might have said as much earlier. He spends far more time on his wife speaking about those features he finds endearing, and saying just why with a choice word.

And that’s the start of a beautiful friendship. I’d like to comment on the both of you together, but this was a straight forward conversation and I could expect nothing less than what I got. That said, there was probably a bit more I could have gotten too. You’re both smart people, so you probably already know just where you came shortest. To be honest the thread seems to end at the 9th post, and seems to be a run to the door. It’s a prologue at best, and I hope the following adventure will be an entertaining one.

If you have any questions, lets hear em. If you have any complaints, feel free to argue. I LIKE TO FIGHT! >XDDD

[Zerith]

Just Sayin’.

First of all, I want to thank you guys for submitting this into the Workshop. I know it’s not exactly easy to submit something you’ve created to a place where you may feel like you’re putting it under the knife of everyone else on the site. I’d also like to apologize for making the two of you wait so long for this. So rather than waste more time, let’s get straight to business. As requested, I will stick to dialogue.

Chromanon, I felt like the dialogue your came up with fit the personality of a kender well. I have read of Tasselhoff in the Dragonlance series and it wasn’t surprising to find myself reminded of him when I read this. Stumbleduck on the other hand didn’t really seem to show the same amount of character through his dialogue, but I will admit it was easier to read.

I appreciated the fact that you didn’t just stick to the old “he said, she yelled” routine some people do. You kept it different, adding motion and action to add to it. I liked it when one of you exclaimed something and immediate sat up in their seat or when one of you felt sad when on a certain topic. My only issue was that I had only hoped to feel the emotion, rather than have to be told he felt that way. It came off as forced rather than genuine.

My personal suggestion would be to try to add more tone of voice to dialogue. I don’t know if either of you know this, but tone is a large factor into how we say things and how they’re perceived. Yes, you touched on it with statements like “she sighed dreamily,” or “You said something about a husband?” I would just like to see more, so I encourage you guys to play around with it. Make something come out saturated with sarcasm, or briefly touched with tiny bit of disappointment. You may be surprised with just it could affect the reaction.

Anyways, onto the rubic. If you should have any questions, feel free to PM me anytime.


STORY - 11

CHARACTER - 13

WRITING STYLE - 14

WILD CARD – 3

FINAL SCORE - 41


Rewards:

Chromanon Rockskin receives 829 EXP and 62 GP!

Stumbleduck receives 251 EXP and 62 GP!


Knave, being the most helpful contributor, receives 150 EXP and 150 GP!

SirArtemis receives 200 EXP and 50 GP!

[Silence Sei]

exp-gp added.