What the Hell is Althanas 2.0 Anyway?

[Enigmatic Immortal]

It's like that episode of Futurama: What the hell is Kwanzaa anyway?

Nobody knows what the hell your doing for 2.0, and we're all getting a little peeved at being blind sided. You can't just wait and show us, and adopt a system that the public won't agree to. Unless your goal is to piss us off so we leave and you adopt a new generation to start your 2.0.

I heard rumors, i had mods just drop into threads and stop all discussion saying in 2.0 it won't matter, or wait for 2.0, or 2.0 this and that. It's like some magical trump card.

"Jensen draws his blade and throws it at Seth Dahlios, aiming it for his eyes, BUT 2.0 JUST SHOWED UP! THE MATCH IS OVER!"

What?

Seriously, that's how it feels. You just drop in, say, "2.0, LOL," and leave! With NO explanation!

Well, what the hell is Kwanzza, and what the hell is Althanas 2.0. Stop asking us what we want to see in 2.0, and show us what you already have figured out.


Hey, guys, in all seriousness, this is a public attempt to get the mods to open up. Now, i may have made some jokes up there, but seriosuly, I want to keep this thread civil. I don't want people to call others egotistical masterbaters, or nimrods, or idiots. This is an honest attempt to learn what the system is changing to, and in that same hope we can CIVILLY work with mods to make the 2.0 launch a smooth transition.

So that being said, if your going to just bitch and OFFER ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, then please, PLEASE, please, keep out. I want to try and learn what is going on here. And I think we can do this without throwing poop.

[SandStorm]

*Grabs a roll of paper towels and some hand sanitizer*

Okay, hopefully these will help ward anyone off who decides to go off track and start turd-slinging during the course of this thread.

*Hands paper towels and sanitizer to Paul*

First off, I wanted to stay away from this thread because I don't quite know what to think of Alth. 2.0. I don't know what to think because I hardly have received any solid information regarding it, as stated above. Solid information, in this case, being defined as info given to us by mods. Yeah Dirks had said little bits here and there, and Letho threw in his post in the Akashima thread, but still I'm sitting here with my chin dangling wondering "what the heck is going to happen?"

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the work you guys are putting forth to better the site, but without everyones consent, whose to say you're actually bettering anything?

[Jasmine]

I agree.

Why don't ya'll just tell us, in plain simple language exactly what you intend to do?

How are we supposed to tell you what we'd like to see or form any opinion on it, if we don't know anything about it? With the vast amount of vagueness used in telling us anything so far, it seriously makes me think that ya'll are afraid that we'll hate it and that if you tell us before hand, we'll shoot it down. So you figure that you'll just do it regardless and not tell us precisely what changes are going to take place and that we'll either adapt or leave.

[Godhand]

I think you'll find it doesn't matter.

[Max Dirks]

Seriously? I don't mean to call you out, Enigmatic, but Althanas 2.0 was announced in early October. Here (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?t=21791) is the thread. In fact, it's a only 2 or 3 threads below this one in the RPC. It details why we are switching to Althanas 2.0 and asks for suggestions. Few were given. I'm just sort of pissed that now, a month and a half later, it's suddenly the end all be all of Althanas because it "blindsided" people. That's bullshit. Not only that, but moderators have been authorized to give details to anyone who asks. So, ask? Start caring about your forum.

[SandStorm]

Dirks, would you mind jumping into the chat to clarify a few things about it for me? It'd be really appreciated, man.

[Silence Sei]

*cracks knuckles* Okie dokie....

We aren't going into deep detail as to what 2.0 is because, well, we haven't hashed everything out about it ourselves. For all we know, nothing could change. Or we can do a great revamp of the site, it really all depends on what we thought would be the right moves.

As far as what 2.0, its a series of changes made in order to appease some of the major complaints Althanas has had in the past 10 years.

Right now, some bullet points we're hashing out, and hopefully will implement by January.

- Making two kinds of rubrics, one for writers, and one for gamers.

- Making every thread submitted a part of the Althanas canon, so if you paint Radasanth green, it's reflected in everyone else's threads.

- New system for training judges (which we're already trying, and seems to work) so we're kind of all on the same page.

- A much clearer outline of the RoG rules, so you there's no confusion about the skills/abilities debate.

- A Level cap, which seems reasonable because, lets face it, nobody is ever getting to 100 unless they start this game at like, 4.

- The new GP system Dirks has talked about in a previous thread, dividing it into 2 (or 3 ) different currencies.

These are all the things off the top of my head, and as far as I know, none o it is final. That's part of the reason we've kept you all in the dark, we're trying to see if the changes would be good forn everyone, since we have such a diverse staff on the team.

[Visla Eraclaire]

I think you'll find it doesn't matter.

Bingo. No sense asking what it's going to be because all the explanations seem so vague that there's little point in worrying about it. Once it coalesces into something that could actually be implemented, I'll consider caring.

[SandStorm]

Thank's Sei for addressing this, that's all I needed to hear.


Making every thread submitted a part of the Althanas canon, so if you paint Radasanth green, it's reflected in everyone else's threads.
I like this idea, just thought I'd voice that.

[Visla Eraclaire]

Problem: People won't agree. People won't even know. Who's reading all these threads and cataloging them? How's one to keep up? What if they contradict eachother? Who's right?

Blah blah blah.

Involvement's great, but Althanas has never been much suited to a rigid canon.

[Enigmatic Immortal]

Dirks, don't tell me "your sorry" for calling me out. You aren't. But that's okay. I still love you. :D

The biggest issue with the october thread was its ambiguity. You didn't mention anything other than making things more canon, and then saying let us start brainstorming ideas. you never got back to the thread and responded either, so nobody really knows what changes you liked and so forth. Most the people who inputed on that page aren't even around anymore.

If you put 2.0 drops in other threads, then i;m sorry i don't read every thread out there, and I tend to avoid the ones where everyone on the site starts fleeing poop and gets uncivilized. It really makes me upset with the site as a whole, and i'd rather not lose out on the joy I have of writing.

So really, this isn't calling me out, but maybe i missed something in there. And still, I WANT you to call me out on things i may have missed, because that means i didn't understand it, or it just completely passed over my head.

The Canon: Okay, i think its both cool, but also really weird how you addressed canon. Every thread affects canon. Yea, the things we do matter! But what about people who came to Althanas and wrote their own stories? What about people who had fun creating their own villages and towns and having a great time with others, but didn't really worry about the history of althanas. I'm worried these people are going to penalized, or ignored in the 2.0 launch.

Also, while Visla was very short and to the point with it, I do agree. These Canon Masters will have to wade through so many threads just to get to what? and you already know your going to step on people's toes. What happens when someone writes they destroyed a major Coronian city, or laid seige to Akashima? Does that mean the guy who wants to write in Akashima all the sudden must write a story in Akashima while its being seiged to really get anywhere? To keep with continuity? Are we liquid timing these events?

I heard rumors of level caps: And that the leveling system as a whole is changing. abilities progression and quest spoils are also different. So can we put them to rest with a blanket statement? Even if we change our mind and scrap the idea later, it would be nice to input it.

can we get a mod or yourself dirks to address these issues? and from there I may have more questions.

Visla and Godhand: While as always you are merely being blunt in proving a point, your not exactly helping the discussion with your dry humping sarcasm. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I didn't have my fair share of that. But my goal is to honestly learn something here instead of having you guys come in and say "Mods won't tell you, and change won't happen." Okay, i accept both points, but at least i'll know what's going to happen. So if you could either start inputting ideas or concerns, instead of drop in to offer nothing, I'd appreciate that guys.

[Silence Sei]

The Canon: Okay, i think its both cool, but also really weird how you addressed canon. Every thread affects canon. Yea, the things we do matter! But what about people who came to Althanas and wrote their own stories? What about people who had fun creating their own villages and towns and having a great time with others, but didn't really worry about the history of althanas. I'm worried these people are going to penalized, or ignored in the 2.0 launch.

I'll handle this. From what I've understood, either the CMs will be cataloging the events in each of their sections (I'm guesisng we'll have more than one for Corone, maybe even Alerar), themselves, or will make quests that exclusively get into the canon. If Dirks could come in and clarify, that'd be great.


I heard rumors of level caps: And that the leveling system as a whole is changing. abilities progression and quest spoils are also different. So can we put them to rest with a blanket statement? Even if we change our mind and scrap the idea later, it would be nice to input it.

Drago is working on a new expdistribution formula, and we're trying to see what we can do about a level cap, right now we're thinking level 15, but we're more than happy to hear your suggestions for the cap. We're also going to change abilities and spells so that we don't have anymore Luc Kraus' running about, I believe. If say, someone reaches level 15, they can have 3-4 OMFG WOW spells/abilities, as well as a lot of weaker ones, or they can opt instead to have nothing but a plethora of said spells/abilities, without having any smaller ability to fall back on.

Did that help at all?

[Enigmatic Immortal]

uh...sorta....

Canon: I think i need dirks to clarify that, because that didn't address my concern with the not wanting to write canon. And doesn't address what happens in the situation I brought up. But it does give me a more clear idea of the process. So that helped.

I understand capping abilities and what not, but i got jensen at level 8, And i haven't even begun the REAL story i want to tell of him. by the time i'm done with IK, he'll be a level 15, and done. He can't grow anymore it seems. which is just balls. I say don't cap levels. Maybe we can do it where every X level you can have ONE uber ability. Like one at four, then 8, then 12, or 3,6,9 and so forth.

That also didn't address quest spoils for abilities and the progression of said abilities. I like to consider Jensen a really, really weak level 8. Most level 0's end up being more powerful than he is. Is the way i designed him going to be our norm? Rev progress's the same way, and so does Amber Eyes. It seems currently we are slowly shifting away from the super characters like Dissinger and Letho and Luc Kruas, and honestly, those super characters are so ancient they rarely see play because most the owners of said characters don't have fun writing them anymore. So I think we should maybe leave the level and abilities alone for a bit longer to see how it pans out. But my opinion.

Yes sei, it did, but those are the follow up questions.

[Max Dirks]

With respect to Canon.

Right now, if your character does something, it's generally only recognized by your character and the characters with him when he did it. Everyone in Althanas 2.0 is still free to continue doing this per normal. You can create NPCs, interact with story NPCs, whatever. Now if your character RPs with a Canon Master (really a fancy name for a GM) in Althanas 2.0, that quest becomes recorded canon. Check the timeline of Althanas. The only character names you see there are those that belong to the region's original writers. Completed canon quests get updated to the timeline. They get recorded by a moderator into the Wiki in a new entry for the quest (you can always add your own adventures yourself). Additionally, if something major happens that affects the rest of the site, like with Xem'zund, the almanacs will be updated.

Enforcement of this canon is just like enforcement now. It negatively affects your continuity and setting score if you write a current thread that doesn't consider these new developments (or refer to an NPC or event improperly in a thread). Another current example would be if you entered Fallien without a pass, etc. However, if you're using liquid time to write your own story you don't lose points. Really, it's another rewards system for those who want to get involved with telling Althanas' story rather than their character's.

[Tainted Bushido]

If say, someone reaches level 15, they can have 3-4 OMFG WOW spells/abilities, as well as a lot of weaker ones, or they can opt instead to have nothing but a plethora of said spells/abilities, without having any smaller ability to fall back on.

Wait wait wait...Diss is almost at the cap?

BALLS!

[Saxon]

I could give a shit what is and is not put into canon. I've had my fun trying to contribute and even write it in an official capacity. The only problem I had with the new system so far is being docked for not having the appropriate amount of it in anything I write. But, since I've been told otherwise and I don't really care to get my feathers ruffled before this thing even hits the ground, I'm not too concerned about the Content Gustapo that's being established.

But, if you're going to submit something to Canon, that's fine. However, I really doubt that I and 99.99% of this site outside of the Judges that grade your quests are going to either read or pay any mind to the changes made through your contributions with Content Masters. We're all self-absorbed, and while many people here don't want to admit it, I've had enough experience wading through other people's threads trying to judge them by their merit, that I'm pretty sure if I had a difficult time reading most of it, but sat through it because it was my job, there's no fucking way Joe Bag-o-Donuts will brave through it on a whim either.

That said, I'd wager a good chunk of people here would rather spend their time more wisely then wading through everybody's quests to get the newest update on Radasanth. Because pragmatically, who the hell would sit around and read everyone's contributions just to identify with them? $100 says you give in before the end of the first day.

Content management, like Communism, probably works excellent on paper, but the reality of implementing it says otherwise.

[Rayse Valentino]

I hope priority #1 for the Canon Masturbator system is to take care of the FQ. A lot of juicy canon in there, and maybe the regions can actually be progressed after what seems like years of stagnation.

[Bloodrose]

I would politely ask that this site not implement a hard level cap. Considering how few people will ever come close to hitting level 15 to begin with, what tangible benefit is there to drawing a line in the sand and telling people they can't cross it?

[Lord Anglekos]

I would politely ask that this site not implement a hard level cap. Considering how few people will ever come close to hitting level 15 to begin with, what tangible benefit is there to drawing a line in the sand and telling people they can't cross it?
I agree with this and ask the same. Veatrix once said that his character, upon leveling up, aged a year for each level. Even with this system, the tale for a character is only begun to be told. Stopping that growth at fifteen levels, or fifteen years, is a very depressing line to be looking upon.

[Visla Eraclaire]

The only justification for a hard level cap is a game-based balance justification. An MMO is difficult to balance at all levels, so it's easier to set a cap, have people reach it, and balance it at that level. If the site isn't following that model, which it shouldn't, there no sense in capping levels.

Only douches would ever reach the cap anyway.

[Enigmatic Immortal]

What? Why am i a douche for trying to go for high score?

[Visla Eraclaire]

If I were serious, it would be because the sheer amount of writing you'd have to do to reach the level cap would suggest that you could have written a series of novels instead.

And it isn't "high score" High score is an achievement. High level is a grind.

[Enigmatic Immortal]

Maybe i use these short stories as a skeleton for a novel? Ever thought of that mister smarty pants?

[Tainted Bushido]

The only justification for a hard level cap is a game-based balance justification. An MMO is difficult to balance at all levels, so it's easier to set a cap, have people reach it, and balance it at that level. If the site isn't following that model, which it shouldn't, there no sense in capping levels.

Only douches would ever reach the cap anyway.

I resent that btw.

[Jasmine]

Seriously? I don't mean to call you out, Enigmatic, but Althanas 2.0 was announced in early October. Here is the thread. In fact, it's a only 2 or 3 threads below this one in the RPC. It details why we are switching to Althanas 2.0 and asks for suggestions. Few were given. I'm just sort of pissed that now, a month and a half later, it's suddenly the end all be all of Althanas because it "blindsided" people. That's bullshit. Not only that, but moderators have been authorized to give details to anyone who asks. So, ask? Start caring about your forum.

As Paul said, you never got back to that. It became a discussion between a handful of members about what they did and did not like about parts of the rubric. Few suggestions were given because no details were given. As I said in our AIM convo, that thread would have been a good place and time to say.

“This is what we are definitely changing and how/why. This is what we’re considering changing and how/why. Are there any questions, comments, concerns or suggestions?”

With no details, all that thread did was initially ask for what everyone’s current complaints were about Althy, which would likely have been the same things you’ve heard for the last 10 years. This was why I didn’t bother with that thread myself. How am I supposed to make a suggestion about a new system, if I know nothing except that stuff is gonna change?

As for being pissed about people feeling “blind sided” and that it’s bull because you announced it in October and the mods have permission to give any details they can, I think you’re being a little over reactive. You made one little thread announcing 2.0. That was it. We feel blindsided because you didn’t make a big enough deal about it to get any attention and what attention it got was never acknowledged by a staff person going back into that thread to answer the questions and concerns that were raised.

Honestly, this transition and the announcement have not been handled well and that’s part of what’s causing the problem. 2.0 is still something of a mystery and people are usually not very into mystery and change when it involves a site they put a lot of their time and effort in.




Right now, some bullet points we're hashing out, and hopefully will implement by January.

- Making two kinds of rubrics, one for writers, and one for gamers.

I’m sorry, but this just sounds like more headache than it’s worth. I have always viewed Althanas as a writing game. One rubric, when done well should be plenty. Making 2 of them is just going to confuse matters.


- Making every thread submitted a part of the Althanas canon, so if you paint Radasanth green, it's reflected in everyone else's threads.

As said, this sounds good on paper, but in implantation I have many doubts. Simply because it would be too much work to find out everything about a place before writing in it just so you can reference the canon.


- New system for training judges (which we're already trying, and seems to work) so we're kind of all on the same page.

Marvelous idea! Train new/more RoG and Bazaar mods too!



- A much clearer outline of the RoG rules, so you there's no confusion about the skills/abilities debate.

Also a great idea and one that really should have been done a loooooooooooooooooong time ago.


- A Level cap, which seems reasonable because, lets face it, nobody is ever getting to 100 unless they start this game at like, 4.

While a level cap isn’t likely to affect me given how slowly my characters level, I don’t think this is fair. If this were a game like WoW is game, then yeah a level cap makes sense. But to do it in writing suggests an intent to stifle creativity once you reach a certain level, which is just wrong IMO.


- The new GP system Dirks has talked about in a previous thread, dividing it into 2 (or 3 ) different currencies.

I need quite a bit more info on this to be absolutely sure, but from what I read elsewhere, this just seems more confusing as well. Points to use for OOC stuff like fancy titles or colored names or whatever is neat. And I would suggest that if you’re going to do that, then you could also allow for people who do artwork, to do so in exchange for AP. I really don’t see the point of the concept points mentioned, and honestly think that’s a dumb idea that will not really help anyone.

[Hysteria]

- Making two kinds of rubrics, one for writers, and one for gamers.

I'd love to hear a bit more on this, how it may work, what some of the parts of it may be and if you will only have one rubric for a thread, or for each character.

[Saxon]

I resent that btw.

You would.

[Cyrus the virus]

How am I supposed to make a suggestion about a new system, if I know nothing except that stuff is gonna change?

You uh... suggest something you would like to see changed.

As for me, unless I hear a blatantly stupid idea, I'm just gonna shut it and see what 2.0's like. Althanas has always been pretty damn resistant to change, which should stop.