God damn you hemingway.

[Jack Frost]

Well in My english class we were reading the sun also rises by Ernest hemingway. God awful book, and I wanted to discuss the writing portion and possible styles of writing he had in said book, see if any of them are any good.

The first thing I noticed was his staccato style, where he has a bunch of rapid fire dialog, and it seems like character put in like a sentence and snuck off, never to be heard from again.
Example:
"yo dog" I said
"Sup man"
"How 'bout this weather?"
"Sure is nice"
"Yep"
"Hows the wife?"
"Good, yours?"
"Great, you know what else is great??"
"What?'
"Drinking"
"Indeed"
"Lets go get hammered."
"Sure"

Above is typical "The sun also rises" dialog. Not only that it seems he writes all of his female characters to be tramps. I mean really, had anyone else noticed this?

[Slayer of the Rot]

Above is typical "The sun also rises" dialog. Not only that it seems he writes all of his female characters to be tramps. I mean really, had anyone else noticed this?

You ever notice how Bukowski writes about drinking and horse races and whores? Man, its like writers have these individual styles or something!

[Jack Frost]

Yeah, but the way he writes them is trashy, and hardly any of them have any personality or depth. Its shitty writing that would get shitty reviews today, its only famous because of the time it was written, and wouldn't stand in today's modern world of literature. In fact, it should probably be shoved into the back of the libraries in a small corner with all of the other "timeless" classics that aren't really as timeless as they claim to be.

[Godhand]

You ever notice how Bukowski writes about drinking and horse races and whores? Man, its like writers have these individual styles or something!

Don't bring Bukowski into this. He doesn't deserve to be associated even coincidentally with a site occupied by the sorts of retards that think Hemingway was a hack and A Tale of Fire and Ice or whatever godawful Tolkien elfcrap the nerd flavor of the month is is the pinnacle of modern literature.

Protip: try going back and reading it when you're not thirteen and have detoxed off Naruto mangalanka or japanimotion or whatever the fuck it is you goddamn submonkey kids today read between going to the dump and slamming refrigerator doors over your huge foreheads.

[Jack Frost]

This has nothing to do with my age, so don't start there godhand. I don't like it because his style is choppy at times and take multiple reads to make any sense at all. Not because I just happen to be 15. Honestly I like a few of the older works, Ethan Frome was bearable, Frankenstein was pretty good. I liked the odyssey, Its just the fact that their books had flow. the sun akso rises doesn't even have a real ending. Brett and Jake are just chillin in a cab for gods sake. Don't flame me for my opinion when I bothered to state exactly why I didn't like it. Instead you could step of your high horse and bother to realize that I'm making an educated analysis about his style while you come in and try and troll me. Whos being the adult here?

[Alembic]

Its shitty writing that would get shitty reviews today, its only famous because of the time it was written, and wouldn't stand in today's modern world of literature.

Ow, what, what's that coppery taste in my mouth? Is that blood? Did I just bite my tongue clean off?

Why yes, I think I may have.

[Jack Frost]

Ow, what, what's that coppery taste in my mouth? Is that blood? Did I just bite my tongue clean off?

Why yes, I think I may have.

Have you read "The sun also rises?" The character start drinking every morning for the most part (and continue to do so for a vast amount of the chapter) and Jake (the main character) is the only one with a reliable, steady job. The rest are either failed authors or just live off their parents money. Had you given this to be reviewed by any of the next generations critics they wold tear it to shreds, regardless of the fact that it was about as pleasant a read as shoving cactus's in my eye sockets. He had a couple good points, and a bit of good humor, so it wasn't entirely bad. I just view his writing to be tedious and choppy. I get what he was going at, and perhaps not all of his books are a bad. But the Sun also rises was terrible.

[Alembic]

Oh dear. Maybe if I attach some sort of pully system to all the great American authors and literary critics of the past, oh, eighty years, I could harness the kinetic energy generated from them simultaneously turning in their graves. This thread alone should provide enough power for the entire Western Hemisphere.

[Jack Frost]

The sad part is yo know this book will drop like a stone in water when all the kids of my generation rise to power because to face facts I'm one of the more appreciative of literature of my age group. And unlike others my age I have a reason why I don't like it other than "Its boring." I just don't like his style. I found it to be repetitive and dry.

[Silence Sei]

First off Frosty, capitalize Hemingway. Seriously, it's driving me insane.

Secondly, here's an odd thing, but I typed in 'Modern reviews for 'The Sun Also Rises' ' in Google.

Can you guess what I found?

Dozens upon dozens of positive reviews. Not a single negative one. Also, guess when they're dated?

2008-2010. Two years ago up until this year.

So either you're not getting the deeper meaning of the book, or you did not truly 'read' it.

I'm not saying you have to like it, hate it all you want. But it's original Hemingway, you should damn well respect it.

Otherwise, you're more than welcome to spend time with the rest of 'your' generation (http://www.pokecommunity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20)

[This Illusion]

Protip: try going back and reading it when you're not thirteen and have detoxed off Naruto mangalanka or japanimotion or whatever the fuck it is you goddamn submonkey kids today read between going to the dump and slamming refrigerator doors over your huge foreheads.
Mostly unrelated to the topic, and I think even this fragment of your post I quoted, at hand, but I have to get this off my chest: Please please please please please etc. don't accuse/deride a medium as a whole unless you particularly hate that medium for being that medium (i.e., don't like stylistic appearance of anime, don't like the interactivity of video games, are allergic to paper and thus hates books). Deride particular works for being bad (like picking out on Naruto there) or, better yet, hate on us fans. We can be dickweeds. It's pretty bad sometimes.

On the other hand, "mangalanka" looks like a really fun word.

Now, onto Hemingway:
I'll admit straight-up that I haven't actually read a Hemingway writings, so I'm going to say what I am based on a few minutes of looking him up.

Hemingway's style, as you seemed to have figured out, relied greatly on short, exact statements. Quick. Not flowy. To the point. Was revolutionary. Think Watchmen. Rorschach's dialogue. Not diary, that's flowery. Quite like this style myself. Understatement was a big part.

The older works you chose are, this time around, too old, since they don't properly reflect the changes that Hemingway himself brought upon the scene.

As for his depiction of women, remember that this was back in the early 1900s. Women got the right to vote in 1920 and, four years later, The Sun Also Rises was published. Hemingway may (or may not) have had the rather unfortunate view on women that came before.

As always, you're entitled to your own opinion on him and his work. From what I vaguely recall, his style is rather controversial (Wikipedia notes that "His books were [. . .] disavowed by his parents as 'filth'"). It's impractical, however, to knock him off as a hack writer who'll be pushed to the back of library shelves. He's a bit too influential for that.

EDIT: SORRY SEI I THINK I PAGED YOU WHOOPS.

[Alembic]

I'm not much older than you, Jack. I doubt I'm the only one of our age cohort who has an appreciation of actual literature. You could not be more wrong about modern critics detesting Hemingway. Nobody does. At the time, he was controversial, but his status as a brilliant author has only solidified as time went on.

I personally appreciate For Whom The Bell Tolls better, but The Sun Also Rises is a masterpiece. Perhaps you don't understand the cultural or literary importance of the book. In fact, I guarantee that you don't. Hemingway's prose is brilliant. Even if you don't enjoy reading it yourself, you at leat have to at least recognize its influence. Hemingway defined a generation of expatriate American authors, and carved a distinct style that authors have either emulated or rejected ever since. He was revolutionary. I don't appreciate his treatment of women either, honestly, but as a writer I must recognize the man's talent. Everything he does is intentional. His writing is indeed terse, but stylistically beautiful and crafted with immense care and thought. As a writer, I have nothing but respect for him.

I am sorry that you can't appreciate one of the greatest authors of the 20th century, but I suppose that is your loss. Given your lack of capitalization or respect for the basics of the English language, I find your criticism difficult to take seriously. I'm frankly aghast to see that this is how people my age treat books. I certainly hope I'm not the only teenager to see things this way--or god help us. You can't just reject one of the most influential authors of the past hundred years as a "hack" like that, it's absurd.

I could write a longer defense of the book, but I doubt it would do any good. You aren't here to spark a conversation about literature, you're here to complain about your school's reading assignment. Bah! I just couldn't let such things be said without providing a counter-point.

[Jack Frost]

I don't have to respect someone who wrote that way about women, nor about the ideals he bestows inside it. Sure he's a classic, but really all I got from the "Sun also rises" was a couple of neat trick about syntax. Thats all he really did besides write a story with no real end. I was unaware of when the story had even reached a major turning point. the only reason I'll remotely give him a shred of respect was the fact that he wrote something that people liked even though he had a terrible life. To be honest the narrator was okay, his supporting cast was shit. They were all dicks to eachother and constantly drank. There wasn't a . And the fact that I bring up his style and all of this meant I've obviously thought about the book. you have an opinion, I have mine. Clever by the way, pulling up exactly what you would have been had you grown up around the same time I am.

EDIT:
When Did I ever call him A hack?
I simply stated that his literature was old, and his views are out dated. Had he published that right now, his book would drop to the bottom of the lists. Why? Because A.) He virtues terrible female characters. B.) The time frame and thoughts are so outdated that I almost gagged. There was one particular time when He fired of the N word a billion times in like two pages. That wouldn't fly now. C.) The books coasting off of popularity from when it was originally printed. He was a genius of his time, but his relevance towards modern culture in non-existent besides the fact that he just might have influenced a little bit of modern literature in the fact that he was rather brilliant in one aspect. That fucker could manipulate syntax like no one else. He murkied up the pacing, but it also brought you to dwell on his points. He flat out refused to use literary elements, instead he manipulated sentence structure to leave you thinking about one point until you figured out his meaning. Had his book been sightly more entertaining, had a real ending, and maybe given his characters more dimension I would be singing words of praise. Unfortunately he offed himself in 61.

[Alembic]

Half of your sentences don't even make sense. I cannot respond to this.

Particularly the last one. What?

[Enigmatic Immortal]

Perspective: Hemingway has written several books, published and enjoyed by many (but not all)

Perspective: You have written much that nobody really likes (but some do), and will never be published.

The point: Stop whatever the hell it is you're trying to do. Clearly, someone will enjoy something, and someone else will not. Does that make it bad writing or good writing? Taskmeister HATES my writing, but I get several people who compliment me on it. I don't like Tolkien, in fact I find his books to be a mouthful of wasted time and making no sense. Chronicles of Narnia never captured my interest as well. Should I start a thread bashing those books? I hope and pray you see how stupid that would be.

You can't just call something poor writing because it doesn't fit with your appreciation for it. That's worse than your supposed "When my generation comes in, shit like that is gone" theory. I swear, it's like you start up threads just so you can get people to bitch to you for attention...

[Jack Frost]

I was responding to Seis rather humorous attempt to poke fun at my age by posting a link top a Pokemon forum. If I wanted to be a loser I would sure as heel go hang out with the lowest members of nerd society. Instead I chose to spend my time here and pursue my interests in writing. Which might actually get me somewhere.

[Silence Sei]

I was responding to Seis rather humorous attempt to poke fun at my age by posting a link top a Pokemon forum. If I wanted to be a loser I would sure as heel go hang out with the lowest members of nerd society. Instead I chose to spend my time here and pursue my interests in writing. Which might actually get me somewhere.

You obviously know not the joys of a level 100 Primeape.

[Alembic]

You obviously know not the joys of a level 100 Primeape.

Screw Primeape, my Alakazam would kick his monkey ass.

This thread is now about Pokemon.

[Enigmatic Immortal]

No sei, he doesn't. How sad....

POKEBATTLE!

Wigglytuff, i choose you! *Tosses poke ball before him, arcing it so it lands not more than three feet away. The cuddly cute creature bounces out, ready to begin!*

[Jack Frost]

You obviously know not the joys of a level 100 Primeape.
Sigh...
Sometimes I fear I'll grow up to be just like Sei...
Its a scary thought. I'll still avoid joining the IK unless it serves a purpose towards me.

Fuck you all, I have fucking God at level 97

Go Arceus, Use judgment and own ass because your type is based off of whatever plate you happen to be holding...
MUAHAHAHAHAH

[This Illusion]

Wait, I thought they capped at 99? Eff, where have I been?

Also, i liek mudkipz.

Edit: I keep getting the first post of the page in this topic. I fear this is a problem.

[Jack Frost]

Wait, I thought they capped at 99? Eff, where have I been?

Also, i liek mudkipz.

Lol, poke newb.
Also,
YOUR MEME NECROMANCY IS NOT APPRECIATED! IF I CANT HAVE MAGNETS YOU CAN NOT HAS MUDKIPZ!!!!!!!!

[Enigmatic Immortal]

JACK YOU CAN'T BE IN THIS CAUSE THIS IS BENEATH YOU! AND WE CAN HAVE OUR MEME'S BECAUSE WE WORKED HARD FOR THEM!

GO AWAY! Wiggly tuff, return! GO SOVIET MUDKIPPPPPPPP!

http://vgchan.org/poke/147/Soviet-mudkip.jpg

USE COMMUNIST TACKLE ON SEI'S PRIMEAPE!

[Jack Frost]

JACK YOU CAN'T BE IN THIS CAUSE THIS IS BENEATH YOU! AND WE CAN HAVE OUR MEME'S BECAUSE WE WORKED HARD FOR THEM!

GO AWAY! Wiggly tuff, return! GO SOVIET MUDKIPPPPPPPP!

http://vgchan.org/poke/147/Soviet-mudkip.jpg

USE COMMUNIST TACKLE ON SEI'S PRIMEAPE!

In soviet Russia, Mudkip Likes you!

[Jack Frost]

Attention Ladies and Gentlemen...

you have lost the game

[This Illusion]

This topic is now about stuffing as many memes as we can into it in a semi-coherent conversation.

All your pokemans are belong to us.

[Jack Frost]

This topic is now about stuffing as many memes as we can into it in a semi-coherent conversation.

All your pokemans are belong to us.

Now remember Gang, Millhouse is not a meme.

[Atzar]

I hate you all.

Seriously. Fucking die.

Anyway, to the original topic: I'll be honest. I never enjoyed the classic American and classic English literature either. I have to go back further to find stuff I like, to the real classics like Homer and Virgil. It doesn't even have to be prose (or 'epic poetry', as I guess that stuff is called). I enjoyed the work of historians like Herodotus and Thucydides, too. That era of history was fascinating to me, and if I ever really get active here again you might even see that interest reflect in my writing. Dunno.

[Jack Frost]

I hate you all.

Seriously. Fucking die.

Anyway, to the original topic: I'll be honest. I never enjoyed the classic American and classic English literature either. I have to go back further to find stuff I like, to the real classics like Homer and Virgil. It doesn't even have to be prose (or 'epic poetry', as I guess that stuff is called). I enjoyed the work of historians like Herodotus and Thucydides, too. That era of history was fascinating to me, and if I ever really get active here again you might even see that interest reflect in my writing. Dunno.

I agree with this

[Visla Eraclaire]

Ironic that you tolerate datedness in your memes but not in your books. When your generation "rises to power" they will have ceased to be your generation in any meaningful way, thank god.

I love hearing ideas that are completely untethered to any social or historical context. You can really only get them from the most ignorant of children.

[Hysteria]

I lol'd several times in this thread.

If you're interested in mudkipz, I suggest you google image 'mudkipz girl'. Visla made a good point about facepaint and scraps of cloth, this time there is no cloth. I'd img tag it, but not sure about the content.

[Jack Frost]

Ironic that you tolerate datedness in your memes but not in your books. When your generation "rises to power" they will have ceased to be your generation in any meaningful way, thank god.

I love hearing ideas that are completely untethered to any social or historical context. You can really only get them from the most ignorant of children.

Me Ignorant? I actually have a reason to dislike Hemingway. I didn't read it, get bored and start trashing it. I explained why I didn't like it. His style was too simple, his characters were uninteresting and dicks to each other on several occasions yet still claimed they were friends. Its not like I don't like old books, I love Shakespeare's works, and i enjoyed ancient epics such as the Odyssey. Its just recent "Classics" that drive me insane to to the immense tediousy and ridiculousness in the plot, if there happens to be one at all. Sorry senor troll, you've again failed. Why not use the energy your wasting on the ooc forms to actually start threads and role play as the sites intended?

[Visla Eraclaire]

I'll put my thoughts in a rapid-fire Hemingwayesque list

It doesn't matter what you've read.
The substance of your opinion isn't even what made me lol.
You're ignorant because you think your opinion has some objective value.
The word is tedium.
If you answer a troll he hasn't failed.
I finished a thread a week or so ago.

[Jack Frost]

You're ignorant because you think your opinion has some objective value.


He who lives in a glass house shouldn't cast stones.

[Atzar]

He who lives in a glass house shouldn't cast stones.

Protip: There is a similarity between you and a hooked fish. Can you guess what it is?

[Jack Frost]

Protip: There is a similarity between you and a hooked fish. Can you guess what it is?

How'd you know I have gills?

[Duffy]

Don't even think about it, Visla :p.

[Allistia Eraclaire]

Don't even think about it, Visla :p.

What? This thread died.