Another podcast!!!!!!!

[LordLeopold]

Another podcast. (http://www.box.net/public/static/nd71f2aoky.mp3)

Thoughts?

[Cyrus the virus]

Izvilvin is totally easy to pronounce. And hearing my name totally rules!

As for Battle EXP, maybe it should be lowered just a bit, but I don't think levelling is going to go quite as fast as you guys think. I mean, I've been writing as Izvilvin for a few months now, and I'm level 2 only because of my score in the Cell's first round. I figure three months of the kind of activity I have is a good amount of time to get to level 2, but then again, I haven't finished many battles just yet.

As for Luc, I've been writing with him for a few years and have not much to show for that amount of time. I've done something like 15 battles with him, and a lot more quests... So considering that, I think levelling NEEDED to be sped up, because as it is, Althanas has been up for like 4 years and the highest level guy we have is 11.

So... I don't know. Until we spend a little more time with these new formulas, I can't really put the speed of leveling now into perspective against leveling then. I think if anything, we need to give it a few months so we can properly gauge the difference.

[Daggertail]

Not bad though it got a bit dull when it started to be mostly about the cell. I dunno I don't really care much for the cell or the Tournaments anymore.

Though the EXP deal is a good point, would faster leveling dull the carrot that is EXP? I know I've expressed worries for things like score being the most critical to exp and the like. I know it should matter but I'm thinking it matters too much. I know that already higher scoring players can get things that a same level lower scoring player cannot get, and sometimes it gets ridiculous as someone could get a spell or item that would make a same level character rather irrelevant during a fight. Like he could get some high quality armor of a strong material and make most hits literally bounce of or an ability that would negate many offences or an offense that’s hard to survive without a little bit of powergaming.

But yeah the too much EXP should be an issue since Leveling too fast might rush character development though I like how the new system doesn’t ruin the loser but I’m wondering if they become too prominent that it might make it harder to get into a quest than it already is and I’ve outgrown battles, I used to battle a lot when there was the myth that it was the quicker way to battle but battles just don’t offer the same potential of character interaction that a quest has. I really just got tired of them because it seems no matter who’s in them it tends to be the same thing with different quality of writing. You just can’t tell a good story with them and they shouldn’t get more rewards than quests. I also would hate for battles to be more rewarding since it promotes an attitude of being the superior roleplayer is the thing that matters instead of just having fun.

[Emblem]

I don't think that people leveling faster and becoming powerful quicker should be a problem. Just because someone levels up doesn't mean that they are going to make themselves more powerful, it's up to the writer to choose. Some people will want to have super-powered characters and will make their character as powerful as their level will permit, while others that want to keep their characters weak will, regardless of level. Many characters are not as strong as their level permits because their writer chose not to. Instead of hindering writers from being able to flex out their characters at low levels, levels are meant to hinder your character at their very core. When a character levels up, they lose more and more limits, because they then can be more powerful, whereas level 0 is restricted to being weak.

The amount of exp awarded for battles isn't necessarily too much past the flat rate, because the amount over is based on score. The winner must have a score of at least 56 to get just the flat rate, to get significantly more they would need a score ranging near JC level and above, at which point they deserve massive exp. For instance if someone beat INDK with a score of 80 (which I believe would make a JC) they would get 4425. Even if a level 0 beat the highest level character here, with a score of 100, they couldn't reach the exp cap, coming 125 short. The way the system works the writers would need a high score to go over the flat rate, even with the old system I believe these would still go over the 25% rate, with the exception of a high level winning over someone much lower level.

A concern about rushed character development is that it depends on the writer. There are some characters that won't develop but just become stronger between level 0 and level 5, no matter how long it takes. By saying that you need to take more time to level so that your character can develop it is almost saying that your character must develop/grow X amount to level.

What would be the purpose of making battle-only characters? Why would someone make their character battle-only if there wasn't any motivation for it?

The example of Hybrid doesn't really apply since he did have so many threads going at the same time. Someone could pump out 20 mediocre quests that get a score of like 20 in a really short amount of time and level up a lot really quick. Should the system reward activity over quality? Should the person who writes 20 half-assed quests in a month be able to get vastly more exp than someone who writes 1 or 2 really good battles in that same month?

I hope I got my points across, but they may have been distorted in the writing or expressed incorrectly.

[Empyrean]

Hah, yeah, you should make it funnier next time. Make that your running joke. :)

Though I was very amused when you were trying to pronounce Izvilvin.

As for Battle EXP, none of my characters are battle-oriented at all, but I don't think a battle-only character would be all that much fun. I can't say from experience because I haven't battled, and I wasn't around at the tiem of the character you were talking about, but a battle-only character just seems...I don't know. Everyone's said it already.

The rate at which someone levels is fine by me as it is, but if there were to be a level and a half for quests, I wouldn't mind that either. I'm very much a stickler for the character development and storylines here on Althanas rather than the battling and leveling up. I'm sorry, I have a rather boring opinion on this.

I may volunteer for a call-in if you guys still need someone to. Don't know how exciting I would be, but hey. :)

[Chiroptera]

Entertaining conversation! You guys remind me of my brother and his friends, who sit around discussing the latest N64 games.

That's not an insult, by the way.

I personally like the current Exp. system, the one that takes forever to advance. Althanas doesn't really seem to me like the kind of site one goes to if they want to make the kind of demi-god characters available in D&D and that kind of RPG. I like the emphasis that is put on the importance of good writing and story-telling. Granted, it sucks to be a level 0 character for months on end, unable to do anything above "below average." But it makes you have to think harder about what kind of situations and fights your character would get into, and it makes you work harder on finding creative ways to get them out.

But the new system would only apply to battles, right? So any character that was not fighting-oriented would be at a severe disadvantage since warrior characters that joined after them would be shooting up the ranks while healers and poets are left in the dust.

[Osato]

Personally I think the exp should be greater. I'm not the only one who thinks that "Not every writer thinks that 'fleshing out' a weak little shit for several levels is going to be enjoyable"... and I think a lot of what's holding that up are the people that have levels 4-6 characters that are just jaded because they had to go the 'hard route' to get to where they are.

Also, out of the characters that I see (including some of mine) there really is no direction with their character. So, what the hell -shrug- why not let them get some levels? Personally I'd like to do character development, but by the time I'm done developing my character I'll be around level 2... and then just have to stop.

I've done that with Ranger. As soon as I'm done with this one quest with him I have nothing else to do without dragging needlessly at his story. And he's only level 4.

[Opr.13]

How exactly do you earn Experiance points? I have bin wondering this for some time now Is it hard to get? When do you reach the first level?

[Daggertail]

How exactly do you earn Experiance points? I have bin wondering this for some time now Is it hard to get? When do you reach the first level?

whenever you finish a quest or battle then you submit it for judging by using the link at the bottum of each post. a mod will look at the quest and rate it on ten catagories and then give you exp and gold for it. 2000 exp is what's needed for level 1

[Opr.13]

Ah, I see. Thats kool, hopefully I can start stacking up on the exp here soon. That'll be good.

[Opr.13]

Do I have to post so many times before I can have it judged?

[Letho]

Generally, the post minumum is set at 10, but sometimes, if the quest is well written or the posts are rather lengthy, it can be below that number.

I haven't listened to the podcast yet, but I too think that the EXP awards seem a bit high, especially when compared to the old system. However, given the fact that we now have an established formula, that means that there won't be too much fluctuations in the awarded EXP so everybody has a chance to move up at the same rate. I definitely don't think that they are too low. If you want a strong character, you work for it. If you don't want to develop it and built it up from scratch, then maybe Althanas isn't the place for you. I said this a couple of times before, but it's impossible to have a system that would satisfy everybody.

[Tom]

I'll work with w/e the exp thing is now. It really don't matter. Letho is right, if you want a strong character, you have to work for it. Thats what I'm planning for this young boy.

Btw, would anyone be interested in training him? Hes not fully trained in combat. He could use a good master to train him in the arts of a fighter or ranger.

[Lasher]

What happens when you don't know what to do with your weak character? You know you want to write a story and not just a character's life and you don't want to do 'filler' things but want everything to matter and be a part of this wider story arc. I'm not sure how to do that on Althanas, at least, not sure how to do it from the start.

[Daggertail]

Well you don’t have to play your character weak even when just starting out. Just write in you adventure and not worry about it. No one minds if a level 0 goes out to save a town or even the world and you can always have something clever to have your character come out on top even if he’s the underdog and that’s much cooler than having a level 6 demon lord just blast his enemy away. There’s nothing stopping you from having an epic story and the like. It’s just you can’t start out like a DBZ character with moves that leave a huge creator in the earth or anything like that.

[Chidori Draconid]

Yeah! Gisela, biznitches! I REALLY want to do a Gisela battle with someone!

[Dissinger]

I'm responding as I go, bear with me;

1) Battles don't give out any more experience than they already have. The cap of not leveling twice has always been there, its more to keep people from top feeding the entire time. The benefit of the new system is that the loser gets up to 1/8th their exp needed to level.

2) I agree Santhalas can be stingy, but I find it more refreshing that we aren't getting the high scores we're used to. Once upon a time I had a conversation with Ithermoss where he came so close to JC'ing and I basically explained that the judge for the quest was a bit conservative score wise. He countered with "Then I want to do a thread he would see as a JC." It can be a blessing and a curse.

However lets not further discuss JC's, cause thats a can of worms I don't want to open quite yet.

3) I tend to agree/disagree with the fast leveling dilema. As Urie and Automatic "insert second half here" like to point out, the fact that we start people out so weak can be daunting. If they had some way to gain EXP quickly they would be able to write the story they intended. Also I again point out the level twice cap was put into effect on everything since I got here. That means quests too can't level you twice.

[Storm Veritas]

I really, really wish I could have added my two cents to this discussion, especially after crafting the new quest EXP reward system.

I understand with the concerns of leveling up, and would firmly consider a cap. The Quest system will never give that much EXP unless someone scored very high with an outrageously incredible (100s) number of posts, but it wouldn't hurt to have a cap.

Additionally, the disparity of levels may be contributing a bit too highly for the battle system, and could stand a slight tweak. Since we have a place where a lot of skilled writers create new characters all the time, the system is open to abuse if someone wants to level a character fast. A cap here would be nice.

Also, the nature of elimination tournaments leads to little interest in the end matches. As I alluded to with the LCC thread, people just don't care who is going to win if they don't have a chance themselves. Therefore, you can judge a tournament's success or failure on the earlier rounds. Sadly, there were certainly a lot of no-shows for both LCC and Serenti.

[Futsuriai]

I'm a bit late here but that's what you get with no Internets.

For starters let it be known I don't quite like the fact that losers don't get the shaft anymore, it makes battling reasonably risk free. Before I tolerated battles because they were a gamble, you either made it, or you didn't. Now you make it big or make it so-so. Perhaps this is because of my dislike for the existence of a "battle" instead of a quest that happens to be a battle and is not treated substantially differently but that's just me.

As for quests you brought up something I've never really liked; lots of small quests are better for exp than a long one. I don't really like that as you can probably tell. I try not to care about exp too much but it does dissuade me that doing something long and involved and likely to slow down at some point will only give me about as much as 2 won battles or something within that baseline. That or splitting one quest into part 1 and part 2. Obviously I don't have the quest formula but I if was a wagering man I'd say that the post influence is non-linear with an exponent less than one. I personally prefer not to have a sequel unless it's necessary but often think that it would get me more in the long run. I hope I'm wrong but that's what I feel.

Also. Where's the damned Wiki? Seriously, if nothing is being done I will handle and build it myself, I will happily do this work in conjunction with a supervising moderator or whatever. But please, please, if it's not me at least let it be someone.

Back to Faraday's Law!