'Baby This Night' Writers Workshop

[Yari Rafanas]

Writers Workshop for Numbers' and CaiteGirl's Baby This Night (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?22478-Baby-This-Night-%28for-CaitieGirl)

Please give the thread a read and let the players know how they are doing. What did you like? What would you change? What criticisms did you have? Remember that as long as you're here to help the creative process, there are rewards in it for you in the form EXP or Gold.

If any readers out there enjoyed the Judge's Choice 'Your vices are in order' then let us know how you feel about its followup!

An easy link to the Writer's Workshop rules is here. (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?22523-Writers-Workshop-Rules-and-Information) Enjoy.

[Red Dawn]

((I’m going to make comments only about the first page, 10 posts, of the thread. I feel like most of the time the comments are critiques that extend throughout and instead of repeating myself with different sentences I would rather just give the gist of what I see in the writings of the opening posts. However, that does not mean I did not read the rest of the thread, simply that further commentary would be redundant. :p))

CaitieGirl ::

Your writing style seems direct, to the point, without any real “fanfare” that allows for a better flow and more creativity to engage the reader. It is a lot of function, but not a very interesting way of writing, though brevity in a sense is itself a boon. I’d suggest taking a step back after writing something, trying to look at it in a different light, and potentially adding a little more depth to it in order to bring out the setting and character that you are portraying. It is not a bad start for writing, indeed it’s informative enough to follow, but I don’t feel as a reader that I’m able to get a picture of the surroundings in a ‘minds eye’ sort of way… not engaging the senses of the reader.

Word choice also seems to be something that you could pay attention to a bit more. If you read some of the phrases that you wrote out-loud to yourself, you’ll hear the strange way that they sound. For example, in post 2 ::

“They looked entirely out of place in the peace of her simply furnished room, as if the very air were beneficial.” :: not sure what the meaning of “as if the very air were beneficial.”. In this context, what [was] the air beneficial to? Rose, the weapons, the room?

“They seemed to expect that she would find out eventually which left Rose frustrated and perplexed.” :: after the word eventually you should have a comma, little comma mistakes are common enough, but just be careful about them when reading over your work.

“Those memories began with a white hot pain to her throat, then a concerned pair of hazel eyes, then a haze of aches, darkness and kind elven faces.” :: Previous to this, as it seems to be a style more than anything, you have a lot of short choppy sentences which don’t benefit writing (on average) that isn’t supposed to be quick and the pace is difficult to follow when you go from staccato sentences into something like what I quoted. The reason I quoted this passage though is because you have then twice to start two clauses, but don’t have it again. You could do without the second then, as your first one is a continuation after what happened with the cut on her throat. Further, there should be a comma after darkness, I believe. Though that’s probably mostly a difference in styles for the writing itself.

“Rose thought, letting her long hair fan out in the water behind her. The lamplight sparkled on the rippling water and she wondered at even being alive.” :: A pet peeve of mine, which is probably just me again, is when people use words (other than a, the, it, kinda thing) twice within sentences so close when you could interject an adjective instead. For example, “Rose though, letting her long hair fan out in the water behind her. The lamplight sparkled on the rippling …” Instead of using water twice.\

‘Picking up her well used bow Rose wrapped a capable hand around the grip and drew the string back as she always had, simply lacking an arrow.” :: Picking up her well used bow is a participle phrase, which should be separated from the rest of the sentence that follows with a comma, so as not to create a run-on or blend the sentence and lose the meaning of the initial clause/phrase.

Post 4 ::

“He had thought her easy prey.” :: In this instance, with the happenings of what has occurred, it sounds off to say that he thought she was easy prey, and instead you could start the sentence with “Perhaps he had thought…” in order to allude to what she was expecting/thinking rather than putting thoughts into another characters mind.

“She had known that the growing resistance could cause turbulence in Underwood but she had hardly expected a scoundrel like this to remain unchecked in a place that was crawling with soldiers.” :: When alluding to the “resistance”, which I assume is the Civil War that is going on in Corone, make sure that the reader knows what you are talking about. Is the growing resistance due to the war? Is it due to some outside effect that is going on in Underwood? Or perhaps there is some growing resistance that she herself is dealing with? Continuity and a better understanding of the political turmoil of the nation as part of what you are referring to in this sentence will help the reader get a clear picture of what is happening.

“She remembered the searing pain but those eyes had been like an anchor keeping her from drifting into the afterlife.” :: “like and anchor” is a very well used simile, this sort of literary device is an easy way to keep the reader interested and on track while still explaining the paramount importance and depth of what she felt when seeing those eyes once again. More literary devices, such as this, even in a small means and use will help the writing flow and engage the reader more.

“Another smile played her lips as they walked and she found herself saying lightly,” :: another smile played [across] her lips, played her lips doesn’t make sense.

Post 6 ::

Your display of how Rose acts seemed… out of the ordinary. I hate using the word cliché, but it was along the lines. You made a man fluster to the point of purple because Josh simply talked to you when he was trying to buy you a drink… and then your character almost cried out of nowhere. If she’s tough, able, and wants to learn how to protect herself I’d dare say having her tear up out of nowhere is a bit of a strange turn in her character.

[b] Numbers

Your first post was… strange to say the least, I didn’t really understand its necessity or the nature of how you were trying to open the quest with what seemed like a poem without rhyme or reason.

Post 7 was… almost too much simile’s and metaphors back to back, making the reading a little less interesting but overly poetic in nature. As a reader it’s hard to follow that through an entire paragraph.

Post 3 ::

“My hands hooked the top of the building, pulled my legs between them and onto the shale roof, sprinting.” :: I think it’s a dangling modifier I’m trying to convey with this quote, but not sure if that’s the term for it or not… can’t seem to remember for some reason. However, your last word in this sentence alludes to multiple nouns. While, yes, I can see what you were meaning by it (you were sprinting with your feet obviously), being aware that sprinting is not attached to any specific noun leaves the initial suspicion that the shale roof or your hands were sprinting. Sounds ridiculous, but dangling modifiers in other situations aren’t so clearly associated with specific nouns in the sentence that it is part of and can be misleading or confusing.

“I waited, for her scent and the sound of her breath.” :: Using a comma to offset a particular point in a sentence as a means for pausing is one thing. However, the part of the sentence after the comma needs the “I waited” portion in order to make sense as well as flow properly. Giving the reader a pause at that point only makes them read the second portion without the context of the first because you gave them reason to continue with the sentence without need of the first two words.

[Breaker]

Thanks for reading and commenting!

[Silcatra]

I'm going to give you detailed feedback on your first posts, and then impressions as I get them, both in where you excel and in where you could use improvement. While Your Vices are in Order was recommended to me to read, I have not yet, and have elected to not until after I've posted this. I hope this will let me help you get some benefit of an outsider's perspective to your narrative.

While the opening post was a refreshing change from a direct introduction to the story right up in your face, and while the semi-abstract nature is a little bit intriguing, I don't feel that it lends itself well to your style. If you're going to wax poetical and try to be a touch surreal, then it's best done in prose. If you're going to write a poem and you want it to be surreal, it needs to remain surreal throughout, instead of drifting into the concrete. You do a very nice job of painting the chill of snow that Josh is immune to, and tried to establish strong continuity to Sha'keth, when that really isn't the place for it and it doesn't let us know anything other than that Josh killed him, whoever he was. If you want a poem to contain both the concrete and the abstract with what you were trying to accomplish, there needs to be a break so sharp and clear that it's almost (if not very) jarring. As it's written, it kind of meanders back and forth and it's confusing in a 'my head hurts' kind of way, instead of a 'huh? Oh, that looks interesting!' sort of way. I do commend you for trying something new and different, though.

Caitie, your intro post is a lot more standard, not that that's a bad thing. You leave no doubt that your character has been through a trauma she can barely remember and is doing her best to recover from it. I have three criticisms for this post, at least one of which which will probably carry through to the rest of the thread and one which is very specific to this post.
First: hyphenated words take two concepts we associate separately in our mind and link them together. XKCD did a very well-known parody of this in one of their comics (sweet-ass car vs sweet ass-car). In your post, I would link simply and furnished in such a way, so that a simply-furnished room is presented to your audience. What's the difference? Chair, bed, desk, rug and window are images that both phrasings evoke, but simply furnished gives a slightly emptier impression, as though the life within is hollow. Simply-furnished, as a single concept, is more homey and fits in better with the "very air being beneficial."
Second: This is something that I think is probably part of your writing style, so I'll comment on it here and not mention it again. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, just a little stiff. You tend to stick to mostly simple sentences, only occasionally breaking into more complex trains of thought. I really feel that your writing could become extremely graceful if you you would take a moment to find which sentences link similar ideas together and meld them into one polished thought, and more potent if you found the things in your narrative that were solid and set them apart.
Example: "Her belt she wrapped around her waist and sheathed her dagger. She wasn't going anywhere without a weapon after having her throat slit once in Underwood. She stood shakily on one foot then the next to lace her boots. It felt odd to wear shoes after so long in bed," could become: "She cinched her belt around her waist and sheathed her dagger, unwilling to venture out unarmed. She'd already had her throat slit once. Finally, she stood first on one shaky foot and then the next to lace up her boots, wiggling her long-bedridden toes against the constrictive, protective leather." - I will grant that my phrasing is probably not the absolute best it could be, but I'm just suggesting. Complex sentences, so long as they don't get lost in themselves, help draw a reader in. Simple sentences are more stop and start; they're easier to break away from.
Third: "They looked entirely out of place in the peace of her simply furnished room, as if the very air were beneficial." This sentence disjoints from itself at the comma. I understand what you're trying to show your reader, and the imagery holds well, but the air being beneficial is kind of a bump from weapons not belonging. I think it would flow a bit better along the lines of: "In the peaceful winter light of the simply-furnished room, where the very air seemed beneficial, implements of violence seemed entirely out of place."
Positive note: I really like how you described the feeling in her arms when she pulled her bowstring.

Numbers - you seem to be falling into more simple sentences, as well. There's nothing wrong with being direct and to the point with your writing, but from days of old, I expected more poise to your sentence structure.

Caitie, in the next few posts, your simple-but-complete and grammatically correct sentences tend to go into winding run-ons, and I've noticed you both missing commas. A split-second pause in a place or two would help you both immensely.

A specific note on post six: I have to say that the "drunk hits on girl a little too much" routine is trite, it is stale, it is old, and if Rose wanted Josh to teach her how to defend herself, or needed something to remind her that hey, she is little and harmless, there are a hundred other, better ways you could have pulled it off. A glimpse of her new scar in a reflective surface, two or three lines of flashback, an involuntary shudder, and you'd have scored continuity points with me and I think I'd have felt more emotionally involved with both the character and with how she and Josh were interacting.

Also, as a touch on the continuity that I'd made earlier - I'm at post seven and I have no real idea what brought Josh and Rose together. With the brevity of your posts so far, I know you could have each wound a little bit in so that you're not sacrificing history for pure character involvement.

As a note on post seven: Josh really comes off as a jackass for manipulating someone on an emotional level without their knowledge or consent. While I understand that bunnies are approved here, but it's still a move that doesn't establish Josh as a good guy so much as an opportunist.

I like the snowfight and the element of fun it introduces to the thread, but I also feel there's something lacking there, something in the choice of words somewhere that fails to evoke the light-hearted magic of a snowball fight in the crackling woods.

As of post ten, I can't find a reason for either it or the second part of nine. It feels like kind of a heavy-handed attempt to create empathy for Rose as a character and emphasise her child-like quality, as well as a blatant backstory introduction. I can't say I'm not guilty of some of that myself in the past, as I think many writers are, but as of where I am now, it doesn't really play in well, and I still don't have more than the very, very vaguest idea what happened last episode.

Also, watch your homonyms and other words that are spelled similarly. I've caught more than one slip there - an it's for a possessive (should be "its") and a "loose" for a "lose."

Also, setting. I have noticed only a little bit every once in a while from Caitie, while it is Numbers' strongpoint, and he's carrying the thread there. The problem with having one person carry a particular category of writing - it throws off the balance of the story a bit.

To counterbalance the criticisms, something I love about the way you two write together (and I mean really, really love) is how involved you two are in each others' posts. I love that Rose (and, presumably, her alt(s)) acts autonomously in Josh's posts, I love that he and his alts act autonomously in hers. It really makes the work flow more like a collaborative narrative, instead of like people throwing words at each other.

Also, holy crap I'm wordy, so in the interests of not making heads asplode, I'm going to continue my critique page by page. So, see you soon for posts 11-20.

[Silcatra]

Hello, I'm back, with more observations and criticisms!

So, first off with posts 11 and 12, Training Fights one and two.

Even more than I do in narrative, I love the highly intensive bunnying in the combat scenes. It lets them go more smoothly, it lets them be full and complete in one post instead of over twenty, and it really helps pacing. Really, the intensive bunnying is the best thing you guys could have done for pacing here.

However, I don't feel the fights were used to their fullest. Each one was "and then, and then, and then." It was one action after another, without much to bring the lovely setting you've been establishing into the picture. The little sizzles of water into a fire is barely anything. Where is the metallic singing of Jake's blade as it whistles past Josh's ear? Isn't Reev's fur so soft on Rose's arms as she grabs him? What about the lodge underfoot as she removes her boots? Or the immediate "ack!" sort of reaction to having a ball of frozen fluffiness slam into her like that?

I also feel, particularly in post twelve, that it could have used a lot more show and a lot less tell. For instance: "To her surprise the icicles slowed down noticeably giving her time to realize that in the warmth of the lair it was actually costing Reever more energy to keep things frozen." Okay. That's all well and good, it makes sense; Reev is a level one and the hotter it is, the faster ice melts. However, after looking at both relevant profiles and their abilities, I feel like it should have been more of a struggle for Rose to work against Reev's magic. After all, his icicles and snowballs are propelled by his own magical talent, they aren't inert like the water in a glass is. In layman's terms, it's the difference between hitting a wiffle ball on a stand and hitting a baseball thrown by another kid in little league. One is a lot harder than the other, even if neither seems very hard to us as adults.

The start of post 13 changes the tone of the thread very abruptly, with little transition. It's almost like a slap to the face. Numbers, if it was me, I'd have eased the change by simply having Rose's exhausted panting first and then moving to the rest, just to smooth things out.

The end of post 13 and most of post 14 felt a lot like a more rushed version of posts 11 and 12. While I understand that training is a repetitive thing, it doesn't help me want to read post 14, which is where I finally (finally) get a bit of a solid flashback into what, exactly happened to Rose... but it's pretty much the same stuff that was said in earlier posts, and while that's a realistic and believable reaction to a near-death experience, especially to a girl barely out of her teens, it feels kind of distant to the reader. A few well-placed words here and there can make much more effective connections between audience and character; you want people's hearts to wrench at her agony, rather than being passive observers. (P.S. - in this post in particular, I noticed that you had a lot of phrases that could almost be separate sentences joined together by commas. The semi-colon helps establish each phrase in its individuality while also linking them. It's like the bit of flesh and organs that links Siamese twins; each part is a unique entity, but each is also intimately linked.)

Erm.

Anyway, I'm sure you're both getting tired of me picking apart your writing, and I'm just plain tired, so I think I'll stop here. I'd be willing to pick it back up if you guys would like, but if you each feel I've contributed enough (or maybe too much), then I'll leave it at that and wish you good luck on the judgment. :)

[CaitieGirl]

Thanks to you both. This will help a bunch I'm sure.

[Breaker]

The International will now be moving this thread through to the judging phase... any last minute comments for the workshop still welcome.

[The International]

This was a rather enjoyable thread. I know this is quite belated, but welcome to Althanas, Catie.

Plot Construction 22 /30

Story 7/10 – Numbers, good job picking the judge whose a sucker for character development. :p That’s what the first portion of the thread was, and it was enjoyable. However, when I view the overall structure of the story, that first portion stretched on for a little bit too long. The middle, which started once the warewolves made their presence known, was a little too short for my taste. The full bunnying rights were taken advantage of properly. Catie, good job playing Numbers ensemble. Numbers, good job playing Rose. That’s a challenge for most players. The last note I would like to make is about the pacing of the story. It’s a habit for many writers in Althanas to spend a paragraph or two recalling the events of the previous post, which is a logical use of the common motivation-reaction unit used in fiction, but I would encourage the both of you (and all of Althanas) to use it only when you feel the reader needs it. They don’t for the most part, and it can kill pacing. While the two of you didn’t do it too much, I believe the story would have flowed better if you had just spent a sentence, if any, on the events your partner has already conveyed.

Strategy 7/10 – I like the fact that a high level character such as Joshua can still find himself challenged the way he was. The both of you did a great job conveying realism through the use of your characters’ tactics and knowledge. Novice players should all take a page from your book, Catie. I love how you used Rose’s abilities very humbly, but very creatively. I’ll point out the scene where Rose provided a ‘backdoor’ out of the otter’s dwelling as a great example of that. However, there were times you decided to tell, and not show. For the most part you were on a roll showing me her feelings, showing me her actions, showing me the scenery. You also balanced it well with summarizing when you needed to, but there were points when you summarized when you shouldn’t have. Pay particular attention to this during the action sequences.

Setting 8/10 – Let it snow, Let it snow, Let it snow. There was nothing particularly wrong about the setting, but there were moments that it shined and I couldn’t help but think it could have shined even more. The first example of which was the snowflake on Rose’s nose. That was superb. Why? Because it was important to her. Filtering the setting through the focused character to give it impact (even if the narrative is in third person) is encouraged.

Characterisation 22 /30

Continuity 7 /10 – Continuity is my favorite category. Character-wise, I love to see growth. World-wise, I love to see reflection and expansion upon Althanas concepts. Let’s start with characters. A lot of veterans of Althanas manage to let their jaded ways and (dare I say it) limited imagination get their main characters to a point where they’ve seen and done everything. Thank you, Numbers, for not doing that. Joshua showed growth. Major growth. He learned that he could learn from his apprentices. It’s a little bit easier for low level players like you and I, Catie, to do that because our characters have so much room to grow. When it comes to world continuity, it is stated that the highest scores in this not only reflect the world of Althanas and its many facets, but expand upon it. What I saw here was an establishment of status quo, a conflict that threatened it, a solution that ended the conflict, and, for the most part, a return to the status quo despite there still being a looming threat. That’s reflection. What I saw was the potential for major geopolitical implications on Corone and its Civil War. Hell, for all of Althanas. Haidia’s back, baby! This is the nation that historically played a close second to the Forgotten Ones and the Wars of The Tap. That’s important, and even though they didn’t enter the stage in massive waves, they should still put both the Empire and the Rangers in high alert. This doesn’t require changing your story. It just requires adding a bit to the storyline that changes the status quo. In other words, Caden Law this bitch. Just… not as much as Caden Law.

Interaction 7/10 – You both did a very good job. This is where I award the unlimited bunnying rights. However, I have to wonder how much detail the two of you could have put into the training fights near the beginning of the thread. You took amazing risks and liberties with each other’s characters, but I think if you took a little more time to add a tiny (and I do mean tiny) bit more detail to one another’s players, I wouldn’t have known where one player’s post ended and the other’s began (save for the POV).

Character 8 /10 – Catie, I’m impressed. Call up the other level 0s and tell them to read your stuff. They could use a lesson in knowing their character as if they had been inside their head for years, while properly introducing their character to the reader. What you could use improvement on is filtering your narrative through Rose. There were moments when you did this – when your narrative was opinionated, transparent, and filtered everything through Rose. It just wasn’t quite one hundred percent. When you edit your posts ask yourself ‘is this important to Rose’? If it isn’t, either a) make it important to her, b) make sure it will be in the future or was in the past, c)or get rid of it. Now for Numbers. I like the fact that Joshua sorta-kinda used Rose at the beginning and felt a tad bit guilty. Completely straight laced heroes aren’t two dimensional. They’re one dimensional. I would have loved to see more of that from him. The dialogue was telling of everyone, and you both did a good job portraying everyone in Numbers’ ensemble although I think you could have done more to get inside the head of every member of the ensemble earlier on. Using a Head Hopping POV conservatively (like you did as the characters separated) would have worked wonders for them at the beginning.

Writing Style 20 /30

Creativity 6/10 – Catie, your prose was compelling, but you can manage to make it more… purple. Get a little more creative with similes, metaphors, alliteration, and cultural references to Althanas. You’ve got wiggle room. Both: If the plan all along was to bring the demons in so late in the story it would have been good to use a literary device such as Checkov’s Gun or foreshadowing early on. If I missed it, it was too subtle.

Mechanics 7/10 – There were places where commas should have been placed, and that ever elusive proper-spelling-wrong-word situation loomed its ugly head once or twice. For the most part it was fine though.

Clarity 7/10 – There were a couple of points where the actions of multiple members of Numbers’ ensemble were clumped into one paragraph. I had to go back and make sure who did or said what, but other than it was all very clear.


Wildcard: 8/10
This was fun, and it has managed to spark my imagination.

Total 72/100

[Letho]

Silcatra gets 250 EXP. EXP added.