Serial: Rip TI A New One

[The International]

I'd like to try something. A previous discussion somewhere in this forum inspired this idea. We've got judges that critique us at the end of a thread when everything is already done. Same thing for the Writer's Workshop, but adding peer commentary. They're all good tools for helping writers improve, but for some people it's better to get commentary as they go along. So I figured we could try it out on me. I've got this solo quest called Strategos (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?23139-V-Strategos) that I'm working on right now, and I'd love to hear what you have to say about it so far. I'll be posting in it once a week, probably on Fridays or Saturdays, until its done. Before you begin reading let me give you a few notes about the story.

1. It's the sequel to Jagged Masquerade, which was an incomplete Blitz. No need to read it. In fact I prefer you didn't so I can test my ability to tell a previous story.

2. I'm experimenting with the George RR Martin style of changing the POV for every scene. Since I always have an ensemble cast and Vespasian is seldom the main character I figured I'd find a cure for my head hopping POV issues. (side note - I'm not trying to emulate his voice or writing style. Just his organization of the POV)

3. I'm also experimenting with a new creative process. The Top Down approach where I start with a Synopsis of the entire story and narrow everything down from there. That means I have every scene planned from beginning to end.

Now before you get to bending me over, I have a few ground rules.

No comments about how the story should proceed from this point. Since I already have it planned out and sticking to that plan is a part of my experiment the point will be moot. However, comments on story progression will be welcome at the end.

Problem - Solution. Don't point out a problem unless you have a solution to the problem. If you say 'this is bad' I'm going to ask you how to make it better. Save some time by just telling me because that's what I'm here for. Certain players here can attest to how irritated I get when they point out problems and can't immediately provide solutions.

Categorize. It would be cool if you could do that. When I go back to edit I do so with a specific thing in mind every time. Mechanics on one occasion, characters on the next. Categorizing the things you have to say will help me immensely.

No Flaming. Don't be an asshole.

Here's the quest.

Strategos (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?23139-V-Strategos)

Have fun.

[The International]

Double Posting.

I've integrated some scenery into the third post. I also changed some of the wording for flow, and reformatted a paragraph to fit the quip I was trying to portray. So for those of you who've already read it, you might want to take a look at post #3 one more time.

[Sagequeen]

:rolleyes: All I've got so far are nitpicky, subjective things. First post, second paragraph:


The musty scent of sweat stuffed his nose as he bumped shoulder pads of boiled leather with other soldiers.

I had to re-read this... I'd make it 'boiled leather shoulderguards.' And possibly explain why this is significant for those of us (me) who don't know much about relative strengths of leather armor. I did catch on to this fact in the second post, however, if that's what you were intending.


Little did she know; these soldiers came to liberate her from the Empire, from the Rangers, from everything.

Minor mechanics. 'Little did she know' is not a complete sentence. :)

It could be:

"Little did she know, these soldiers came to liberate her from the Empire, from the Rangers, from everything."

But I'm sure you can come up with something.

It could be just me, but the first post was lacking a little clarity at times. I had to re-read it to get what you were saying. It could just be I haven't a mind for war, but at times the imagery outweighed the action. I had to go back and mine the rocks from the wall of jewels. With that said, I loved the presentation of strategy and the concept of what men will do from behind masks.

No problem with the next two posts. Very enjoyable. It reads like the beginning to a very epic and interwoven tapestry of characters in their own various situations, sure to clash in a number of ways. I especially liked the third post... it felt very substantive.


Am dissapoint. No 'new one' for you... yet.

**Edit: Forgot to mention that I think the psychological warfare thing with the Masquerade was a bit downplayed in the first post. That's a big deal imho, and very important to the mask concept. I'd have liked to see that drawn out just a bit.

[The International]

Yay! Commentary! Thanks, Sagequeen. The mechanics flaws that you have pointed out will be corrected. I really appreciate the help.

As for the first post, were you hoping to get a wider scope of the battle (army vs army)?

EDIT: I'd also like to know what you think of the characters so far. You seem to have a knack for portraying good characters, so I'd love to know what I can do to make them better.

[Sagequeen]

Honestly, as I read over it again, it is more clear than I gave it credit for the other day. That's partially because I know now you weren't writing the Spartan phalanx so I wasn't trying to envision that. Also, I didn't have a 4 year old bobbing around asking me questions every 2 seconds.

Overall, could it have been more clear? Probably. For example:


And so Bart’s left leg stomped forward to the ‘Mon’, and his right leg stomped forward to the ‘Ster’ as if each leg had a mind of its own. It seemed as though his heart was in league with his legs for it too seemed to pulsate with the chant. His hands began to sweat inside his leather gloves, and for some unknown reason the muscles on his face began to curve up until he was smiling that same sadistic smile that was on his mask. The living wall of opposition was not oblivious to this. How could they be? Although the Empire’s knights feigned fearlessness behind their full suits of armor, their mounts did not lie. They budged about until one knight finally began to trot forward. Another followed. Then another. Then some more. Finally they united in a charge, and thus began the second stage of battle.

Parts of this paragraph throw me. The 'living wall' (knights) are not oblivious to Bart's masked smile? Why or how? Also, if the knights are 'feigning fearlessness,' it makes me thing they are actually scared. But the next sentence makes me think they are eager and fearless. I am missing some of the points in this paragraph.


The call for halt came, and the chant ended. Bart stopped as if frozen by the Berevar winds. Another command came, and he entered his battle stance: left side to the enemy, right side away, right hand holding the pike over, left hand holding the pike under. And then another command specifically meant for the charge of cavalry. He looked up at the shimmering oversized spearhead of his pike, and then looked at the other side, the butt, which was nothing more than a wooden stake, but it was enough for the purpose of this tactic. With a grunt he stabbed the soft ground with the butt of the pike and got on his knees. A fellow soldier stood behind him in battle stance offering his pike to the opposition as well. A quick glance down the line and it was obvious that the Masquerade met the Empire with a wall of its own, and this one had the lion’s share of spikes.

Here, I am familiar with the angled pike technique against cavalry, but it might help to mention the pikes are angled. A small thing, not terribly important, but helpful as the action plays in the reader's mind.

Found another typo in para 8: 'A crimson cloud of emerged from fountains of life’s blood.' I'm also having trouble envisioning the blood as a cloud.


A new order rang in Bart’s ears. Soil! He rose his pike as an ode to the sky then dropped it down as if to dig into his land at home. His pike hit nothing but soil, but all around him heads and arms were nearly severed and the coppery smell of blood mixed with the musk of sweat. Wheat! He swung his pike from left to right catching several pieces of flesh in its path. Plow! His favorite, a direct and plain thrust forward to make a skewer. It all worked without fail like an Aleraran clockwork. Finally light began to shine through the cracks of this makeshift wall thus it was time for the next phase.

The soil command I don't understand at all. Wheat and plow are very clear.

As for characters, Bart remains mysterious. I don't know what got him to the point of becoming the monster he portrayed, especially since he's got a loving wife and five kids. He is the Everyman of the Masquerade, so I need something that tells me why or how he became as his is, not necessarily to enrich him as a character but instead in portraying the Masquerade. Help me relate to these people; show me a little of their human side even if their actions are inhuman.


During the planting season Bartholomew was nothing more than a simple potato farmer from High Point, a town of no more than eleven thousand on a little plateau in Corone’s Jagged Mountains. He could barely read, he had five children, and a wife that made him laugh more than any jester ever could. But here as he stood in a uniform of boiled black leather, as he held a fifteen foot long pike made of well seasoned ash and Akashiman forged steel, and as he wore that mask… that bronze drama mask that exuded a sinister crazed smile, he was a monster willing to kill any that stood in his way. He and eight thousand of his companions donned these sadistic façades to form The Masquerade.

It could be smoothly integrated here, I think. As is, you are asking me to simply accept what you say without providing any evidence.

Your Roderick post characters are all distinct and I look forward to seeing their progression.

You really shined in the third post, or rather, your characters did. This one had the ring of truth to it, that resonating quality that these could be real people. Brilliantly done, and my favorite post so far.

I hope I've been clear enough myself. :) Let me know if I have not explained myself well enough.

[orphans]

I don't really have much to say at the moment.

Tactically though... I feel as though the addition of knights seemed to be a little... odd? Rather, them charging headlong into a pike formation, even with lances, is folly. Either the Empire is completely lacking in common tactics or they were really desperate?

Knights, in my mind, are usually more highly trained units of men (and women in our fantasy world) and to own a warhorse fit for combat isn't usually cheap. Even supplied by the kingdom, one wouldn't give a warhorse to the common foot soldier and are usually reserved for more veteran men.

I assume this much because you mention full suits of armor, which again, is not cheap.

Also, had a hard time figuring out just how large the unit of knights are. Ten men? Twenty? A hundred?

Everything else after that seemed fine to me though. I suppose that the Masquerade had advantage of numbers and that could push them to desperation... but just my thoughts on it

Also, since it's from mainly Bart's perspective, I figure it's what he felt? And maybe not an accurate portrayal of events? Armored knights might be hastily trained conscripts shoved onto work horses and given metal armor as a false security blanket?

Seemed like the sword and bucklers were the real deal though.

[The International]

@Sagequeen. Let me see if I can improve some of this.


And so Bart’s left leg stomped forward to the ‘Mon’, and his right leg stomped forward to the ‘Ster’ as if each leg had a mind of its own. It seemed as though his heart was in league with his legs for it too seemed to pulsate with the chant. His hands began to sweat inside his leather gloves, and for some unknown reason the muscles on his face began to curve up until he was smiling that same sadistic smile that was on his mask. The living wall of opposition was not oblivious to the reputation that preceded the Masquerade. How could they be? Although the Empire’s knights feigned fearlessness behind their full suits of armor, their mounts did not lie. They budged about with anxiety until one knight finally began to trot forward. Another followed. Then another. Then some more. Finally they united in a charge, and thus began the second stage of battle.


The call for halt came, and the chant ended. Bart stopped as if frozen by the Berevar winds. Another command came, and he entered his battle stance: left side to the enemy, right side away, right hand holding the pike over, left hand holding the pike under. And then another command specifically meant for the charge of cavalry. He looked up at the shimmering oversized spearhead of his angled pike, and then looked at the other side, the butt, which was nothing more than a wooden stake, but it was enough for the purpose of this tactic. With a grunt he stabbed the soft ground with the butt of the pike and got on his knees. A fellow soldier stood behind him in battle stance offering his pike to the opposition as well. A quick glance down the line and it was obvious that the Masquerade met the Empire with a wall of its own, and this one had the lion’s share of spikes.


Help me relate to these people; show me a little of their human side even if their actions are inhuman.
The intention was to reveal their origins and motivations as the story went along. For example, in post #3, when Maelle is speaking to Vespasian about the Masquerade...

“Those brigands were stealing their crops, killing their men, raping their women, and you helped them. You taught them how to fend for themselves and look at them now. Both the Empire and the Rangers tremble at the mention of them.”
That was just a part of it, but in time I intended on revealing that the town of High Point had suffered abuse from a rogue band of horsemen. Vespasian Villeneuve, Marcus Book, and Zerith of the Corone Rangers came in and started a military tradition in that town. Ever since then they've been liberating their neighboring towns, and the Empire has been making the effort to stop them. It was kind of a question I wanted to answer as I went along by showing it through description, dialogue, and action, but the only way I feel like I can reveal it in this first post is through narrative exposition, which I feel is boring. In two posts Maelle is going to speak to Bart's widow, and a lot about him personally will be revealed there. I'll keep my mind on this as I write that post.

@ Orphans. As I looked through the info threads of all these armies in Althanas I realized that for the most part the pike hasn't been utilized on a large scale in any of the major countries. They're very diverse, but none are equiped with, nor are they knowledgable of the pike. The Knights, the drafted locals, and the Sword & Buckler fighters represent the Empire's attempt at tradition, psychological warfare, and finally a wise tactical decision.
If there's a way of showing it and not telling it ^like above^ I welcome suggestions.

As for the numbers, since I was telling it through Bart and he wasn't much of a numbers guy I didn't want to throw out a number unless he had been told one, and the only number he knows is that of his Masquerade, eight thousand. When he looks at the enemy all he needs to know is that there are a lot of them. Should I try to portray the scale of the opposing army a bit more?

[Sagequeen]

The edits are great!

I understand your point about revealing things later in the story, and it makes sense to do so. ;)

[orphans]

As for the numbers, since I was telling it through Bart and he wasn't much of a numbers guy I didn't want to throw out a number unless he had been told one, and the only number he knows is that of his Masquerade, eight thousand. When he looks at the enemy all he needs to know is that there are a lot of them. Should I try to portray the scale of the opposing army a bit more?

That would be helpful. Maybe a general feeling Bart has of like "Oh *** that's a lot of people." type thought or feeling. Or even, "That's a lot of cavalry charging." Something like that I suppose would do for a simple person like him.

Like maybe as they charged, a moment of panic shoots through Bart because their numbers seem like spilled grain: too many to count and hard to gather?

As for the pikes and stuff, I'll poke you on aim when I get home from work. Otherwise we'll be going back and forth here for a while and I don't want to clutter.

[Atzar]

Alright. I read through the first two posts about a week ago, so unless you think the changes you made are large enough that I should go through it again, I’m just going to focus on the third post.

Mechanics:

First one is a bit of a nitpick. Paragraph seven, “The pat of the half worn fold of papers upon the hard wooden seat between them let her know he was done.” I’d get rid of ‘half’, personally. I don’t think the level of wear on something as a thing that can be ‘half’, ‘whole’, or anything like that. I wouldn’t go with ‘slightly’, etc. either, so just take it out – it’s effective without it. Like I said, a nitpick, but I might as well be thorough.

Typo in paragraph twelve: “It’s not too hot, not to cold.” ‘to’ should be ‘too’

Same paragraph: “Just the slightest hit of horseshit? Really?” In a way ‘hit’ works, but I’m guessing you wanted ‘hint’ here.

Paragraph fourteen: ““Stop.” Maelle cried in a whiny voice as she gave Vespasian a playful slap on the shoulder.” The period within the quotes should instead be a comma.

A few lines later: “...Snitch. got it.” Capitalization error there.

“Vespasian looked over his shoulder as he tapped the silver cats head pommel on the end of his sheathed schiavona.” Cats needs an apostrophe to indicate possession, and I’m trying to decide whether I think ‘cat’s head’ should be hyphenated because the words combine to make up one adjective. Can anybody help me on that? If you decide that this is something you do want to change, let me know – there are a few other similar points in the post that could also be hyphenated.

“So what? Someone smart enough.” Vespasian turned and faced her dead on. “Determined enough, and resourceful enough will find out.” Period after the first ‘enough’ should be a comma, period after ‘on’ should be a comma, and ‘determined’ shouldn’t be capitalized. I’m essentially changing it so the part inside the quotations is all one sentence – you probably meant it that way in the first place.



I appreciated the way that you appealed to all of the senses. You could add a little more description to the carriage itself, I suppose – all I really learned about it is that there’s a wooden seat and a small window and that it’s pulled by two shit-smelling horses. Adequate as it stands, but it could do with more in the way of visual detail.

In terms of character, I found it odd that you introduced Vespasian as being hung over near the beginning of the thread, but it was never mentioned or referenced again – indeed, he didn’t act handicapped in any way.

Aside from that, I can’t pick on anything else. Characters are good, dialogue was believable and entertaining, and I even laughed out loud at a few points. Well done.

[Elrundir]

“Vespasian looked over his shoulder as he tapped the silver cats head pommel on the end of his sheathed schiavona.” Cats needs an apostrophe to indicate possession, and I’m trying to decide whether I think ‘cat’s head’ should be hyphenated because the words combine to make up one adjective. Can anybody help me on that? If you decide that this is something you do want to change, let me know – there are a few other similar points in the post that could also be hyphenated.
I think you're right that it should be hyphenated. I'm not sure it would be a hard and fast rule, but I think it reads a bit better if there is one there.


“So what? Someone smart enough.” Vespasian turned and faced her dead on. “Determined enough, and resourceful enough will find out.” Period after the first ‘enough’ should be a comma, period after ‘on’ should be a comma, and ‘determined’ shouldn’t be capitalized. I’m essentially changing it so the part inside the quotations is all one sentence – you probably meant it that way in the first place.
Personally, I would alter this sentence in a slightly different way. I'm making the same assumption as Atzar that you wanted that last bit to be all one sentence, but because of that, I would phrase it like this:


"So what?" Vespasian turned and faced her dead on. "Someone smart enough, determined enough, and resourceful enough will find out."

It's more natural to break up the dialogue in between sentences when there are more than one, in my opinion. If it was all one sentence, then you'd pretty much have your pick, but I think this one reads more smoothly. There may be certain scenes where you want to very specifically synchronize the character's actions with the fragments of their dialogue (such as if they're punctuating each part of the sentence with a different action), but I don't think that fits very well here.

[The International]

ALERT ALERT

Newest post is finally up! It takes us into the head of the ADHD Hero, Vespasian Villeneuve. Enjoy, and commence ripage.