Writing the 'Epic"

[Sagequeen]

Heya Guys!

There are many of you who can come up with epic story lines; what are you strategies? How do you go about writing an 'EPIC' story? Do you plan it, or does it just happen?

FLTO, let me know. All the juicy details...

[Enigmatic Immortal]

i write lots of what I call EPIC level writing. My first quest was with Letho and we did a 110 page monster. Why? Cause it was fun.

My buddy Sheex and I did an 80 page monster quest about the death the clash of the demon of swords versus the saint of swords. Why? It was epic and fun.

I wrote two huge war stories about Emprea with my buddy, 50 page monsters, one of which was regarded as the biggest pile of compost on the site. Why? It was epic..and fun.

You write epic things because they are fun. You bend the rules, give yourself more power than you technically have, because you're writing something that is meant to just be fun. Do it because you like it! My buddy and I write such horribly Clic'he things, but we don't mind. The stories just start going and we don't stop. An example on this account is the Journey of Jensen Ambrose, whihc is another marathon quest about saving an alternate universe from the void. It even has the titanic battle for Gondor feel to it where the armies of mankind fight the creatures of the void with airships and Titans. It's just....fun.


My advice is to just let the story grow and have fun. It doesn't have to fit into any regime, or strict pattern, it just needs to be fun for you and all involved. Do things you'd normally never do because it's fun!

[Letho]

Ah, the good old days, when we did things just for the hell of it. Though I'm pretty sure you mean posts when you say pages. Because 110 pages at 10 posts per page (also, I think it was 15 per page back in the days of Bluthanas) is a hell of a lot. :P Still, I miss that time, when we were young and didn't give a crap and there was always a monk with some fish in the story.

I usually like to have a basic outline set when I start with something big. A good while ago I did a story that spanned over three threads. I knew what needed to happen, but I allowed enough vagueness in the plan for not knowing exactly how it's going to happen and allow myself and the people I wrote with freedom to figure things out on the fly. This comes even more in play when you write with others. Unless you're a control freak, you don't really know what they're going to do, and that adds to the genuine feeling of it all.

[Arden]

A monk with fish you say...

[Sheex]

I wrote two huge war stories about Emprea with my buddy, 50 page monsters, one of which was regarded as the biggest pile of compost on the site. Why? It was epic..and fun.


Eh? Didn't think that many people read it, or hated it for that matter. Well, whatever you say there pal...though I disagree on point of pride. Oh, and thanks for making my country out to be Mordor in your battle for Gondor. You sure like being the hero, don't ya?

And to answer the actual question, here's how it goes. One day, you're sitting around, shooting the shit with your friend. Then, you have an idea. You say, "this character would be a cool idea," and your friend goes, "yeah, and so would this character!"

And that's your little flame, but in order to cook something, you need a bit more fire. So you throw in...maybe a sister or an enemy, or someone who's personality will clash again and again, and you always, always got to have the comic relief. Then you hook the sister up with someone, throw in a few of your other characters because you think it'd be fun to give them cameos, crack a few jokes, shit hits the fan and before you know it, you've got fifty plus posts.

Add in some booze, and you've got yourself an epic level quest. Which I assume is code for just really freaking long.

[Hysteria]

I always figured the key to writing monster threads was not caring too much about the story or the quality, but liking the people you were writing with. I've done a few pretty big ones sometimes it turns into a grind, and sometimes its awesome. Maybe its more about the level of fun you're having in OOC threads with the participants than the actual thread :p

As for epic storylines... no idea.

[Zook Murnig]

I find that writing an epic story works best if it's told in parts. Take Homer's Odyssey, for instance. It's an incredibly long tale, told in bits and pieces, each one taking place on an island on the way home from Troy. What makes it all one story, however, is the overarching plot of going home to reclaim his rightful place as Penelope's wife, Telemachus' father, and the ruler of Ithica.

Writing an epic story doesn't necessarily mean you have to sacrifice quality for quantity. You don't even have to do the whole thing in one thread. I'm working on an epic overarching plot right now, and I'm taking it one solo at a time. I have the whole thing planned out, though, right down to the death toll.

[Silence Sei]

I always figured the key to writing monster threads was not caring too much about the story or the quality, but liking the people you were writing with. I've done a few pretty big ones sometimes it turns into a grind, and sometimes its awesome. Maybe its more about the level of fun you're having in OOC threads with the participants than the actual thread :p

As for epic storylines... no idea.

Which one exactly was Crow and the Butterfly?

[Enigmatic Immortal]

Eh? Didn't think that many people read it, or hated it for that matter. Well, whatever you say there pal...though I disagree on point of pride. Oh, and thanks for making my country out to be Mordor in your battle for Gondor. You sure like being the hero, don't ya?

Well, I never intended for that to entail the entire population (though looking back, yep, I did.) So in this case, my bad. So to clarify that point: The JUDGE thought it was a pile of compost. fuck it, I still regard it as the third best thing we wrote, with Symphony being first and Reprisal (which was lost.) being second.

However! I will defend tooth and nail my Gondor point. Carthage outnumbered Emprea 3-1, came for the soul purpose of destruction only to gain the wealth of Emprea, and in case I need any more evidence...Carthage is known as "The BLOODSTAINED" Kingdom, whereas Emprea is the City of HEROES! If anything, yes, I played the good army of Gondor in this case. But...well..my army got beaten into the ground. Hard...And one last thing: In the battle for Mordor, it was 300 Gondor troops with a few heroes Vs...uh...Mordor. In this case I would still say Emprea is Gondor, but Frodo never finished the quest and decided to get jiggy with it with sam. (Bastard halflings)

And i do like like being the hero, good sir, but admit you love being the villain as well.

On to the topic: I agree with Zook, and you can always shorten it up into "episodes" so to speak. My buddy and I do exactly like he said. We sit and chat about our characters and things we'd like to do, and then we offer ideas, and see if this character the other writes would do to help tell this story. Sometimes we get a marathon quest, but sometimes we get a simple 20 post one. It's alwyas good to have the skeleton, then from there you breath life into the creation as you just let it flow.

And just because people write Marathon quests doesn't mean the quality goes down. I am a firm believer that this site is just not built to the rubric to like long quests, that's all. Otherwise, long quests can be really fun and if it feels like a grind you should mention to move the plot along. Communication if writing with a friend is key.

[The International]

I haven't read all of these responses, but to me 'epic' has more to do with in character scale rather than the length of said story. If the events of the story effect many people or a large area of the in character world then it's epic. If one Dark Elf named Drizzit explores a huge and diverse landscape, then its epic. If Tolkien could had told the same story in half the words, Lord of The Rings still would have been epic because all of middle earth was affected by the events.With that being said if you want to do something epic you just have to widen the scale. If you're used to focusing on your charcter and the people around her, start to widen the scope to the community around her and see how her actions affect it as a whole. You could widen the scale even more by seeing how your character's actions affect a large city or an entire nation.

[Letho]

If Tolkien could had told the same story in half the words, Lord of The Rings still would have been epic because all of middle earth was affected by the events.It would also make LotR significantly less boring to read. :P

[Arden]

I've read it through 8 times at last count, so YOU FAIL!

[Caden Law]

It all boils down to the intersection of fun and goals. You really can't have one without the other, even if you think the only goal is to have fun. Having things happen repeatedly over the course of your epic is also useful; I've had Caden get locked up so many times that it's basically guaranteed to happen at least once per Significant Thread, just as a running joke.

One of the things that can help you is to remember the format you're working with. You can do a lot within just ten posts. You can do a whole lot more with just ten short threads, and your character need not necessarily be locked into any one thread in the process. Don't be afraid to start epic either. Just because you want to get to that crazy moment where your character is surfing on the back of a dragon at sunrise over a warzone as comets fall from some eldritch dimension beyond all sane comprehension as the fate of existence hangs in the balance does not mean you can't start it all off with, say, skydiving in the opening post. Humble beginnings are boring and you've already established a lot of that crap with your character bio. And don't worry too hard about continuity or establishing a setting/whatever with your intro. That stuff comes into play during the thread proper. Opening post is just an eyecatcher. What comes after it is the important stuff.

And don't ever take yourself too seriously or too lightly. Bonus points for jumping from one to the other fast and hard enough to punch your reader's teeth out.

[Vigil]

Epic storylines aren't worth the time invested. I've trashed more 'grand' story arcs then I have actually gotten out of the 'planning' stage. Half of them I tried to carry out. If you're looking for something epic, write it on your own and send it in to a magazine. Plots like that are very complex and hard to work with in threads, and are mostly a solitary effort. They are better voiced in literature then PbP.

However, if you can get something going that you really like, has a cool plot and have people that can keep up with it, then by all means. But I really wouldn't be trying to put all your eggs in one basket, that's my advice.

[Paragon]

I have the beginning of an epic here (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?23430-The-Sesthali-Project). Only the first 'part' has a vague vision around it, I still don't know what will happen in subsequent threads or how it will be ultimately resolved. The fate of the world will definitely be at stake.

I'm interested in an epic but I think you shouldn't restrict it to having the same characters start to finish. Even when considering LoTR, they didn't all meet in the beginning and they didn't stay together throughout it. A grand over-arching storyline should have multiple parties all advancing the plot in their own way with a healthy amount of cross-over. The FQ I suppose attempted this, but the vast majority of the threads had nothing to do with each other, with only the FQ 'host' for the chapter making the only relevant contributions to the grand plot. Even with the Corone Civil War there's nothing in these threads that affect people in other threads or threads-to-be, unless it's the same people involved.

The point about scale is what makes an epic. If you feel like you're just a small part of the whole thing instead of the focus, then you're doing it right.

[Ruby]

I'm still surprised that Caden, a wizard who not only Did It but can smash mountains and gods is not yet epic enough to have learnt an Unlock Door spell...

[orphans]

I'm still surprised that Caden, a wizard who not only Did It but can smash mountains and gods is not yet epic enough to have learnt an Unlock Door spell...

Maybe it's akin to fine motor control such as the kings of old: Some could read and write while others needed a scribe because they never learned the fine motor skill of penmanship?

[Sheex]

However! I will defend tooth and nail my Gondor point. Carthage outnumbered Emprea 3-1, came for the soul purpose of destruction only to gain the wealth of Emprea, and in case I need any more evidence...Carthage is known as "The BLOODSTAINED" Kingdom, whereas Emprea is the City of HEROES! If anything, yes, I played the good army of Gondor in this case. But...well..my army got beaten into the ground. Hard...And one last thing: In the battle for Mordor, it was 300 Gondor troops with a few heroes Vs...uh...Mordor. In this case I would still say Emprea is Gondor, but Frodo never finished the quest and decided to get jiggy with it with sam. (Bastard halflings)

And i do like like being the hero, good sir, but admit you love being the villain as well.



Ah...but I wasn't talking about that "epic" quest. Rather, I was talking about Jensen's Journey, where all of our countries banded together to quite literally save the world. Yet when we march to battle, you wrote your country with music, fanfare, parades, and honored traditions, while you wrote mine quite literally was the black gates of Mordor. Complete with black clouds.

Not that I mind too much. You have me at the villain bit; shades of gray beat pure white any day. Oh, I rather like the sound of that.

On topic: Oh dear, seems I have nothing to say. Well, what is YOUR idea of an epic quest Sagequeen?

[Enigmatic Immortal]

SHEEX Rebuttal Owned!

Well...I uh...that is to say...I mean...I didn't mean....well you see the semantics involved...and the ideas...and the....

Yeah.......got me there wanderer. ;)

Topic: ....Crap! Ditto to Sheex. You got some feedback, what are your thoughts now?

[Hysteria]

Which one exactly was Crow and the Butterfly?

I actually wasn't including anything I had written on Althanas. I don't think CatB is long enough to be called EPIC. It was fun though, perhaps 'A small epic'? (note the lack of capital letters). It was fun though :p


I haven't read all of these responses, but to me 'epic' has more to do with in character scale rather than the length of said story. If the events of the story effect many people or a large area of the in character world then it's epic. If one Dark Elf named Drizzit explores a huge and diverse landscape, then its epic. If Tolkien could had told the same story in half the words, Lord of The Rings still would have been epic because all of middle earth was affected by the events.With that being said if you want to do something epic you just have to widen the scale. If you're used to focusing on your charcter and the people around her, start to widen the scope to the community around her and see how her actions affect it as a whole. You could widen the scale even more by seeing how your character's actions affect a large city or an entire nation.

Epic is one of those wonderful words that has so many different meanings that we could be bogged down in semantics for pages to come. For me, epic is the scale and length of the story. While not necessary for threads to go on for hundreds and hundreds of posts, it is necessary in some respect to have a 'long' story. The particular epics I count amount mine include:

The Siege of a City, from two days before to the stabbing death of the last attacker. Had about 10 active posters, went for over 100 posts, but can't remember the exact number. Maybe over 200.
The castle of my then clan was attacked by pirates, causing the group to travel hundreds of miles in search of the true perpetrators of the attack. The sheer distance the group traveled, the change of locations and plot twists made this epic. About 6ish active posters, not sure about length.

There are some smaller 'epic' parts of quests I've been in. I remember I started a quest once with a bar fight, which ended with the whole building collapsing into a cave system that was cracked open in the fight. That fight was awesome. If only because it incited needless violence from four posters whose characters had never met.

[Sagequeen]

Thanks for all your feedback!

There are some wonderful points to consider here!

[Dissinger]

Epic has a lot of connotations as was pointed out elsewhere. I find Epic on this site to require two, perhaps three things. Mix and match for pleasure.

1) Multiple Characters - No single character has written something so sweeping it changed this site alone in my several years here. Anyone who has tried has felt themselves frustrated to the point of futility.

2) Expansive plot - No small potatoes. we're talking literally nation spanning.

3) Patience - Sometimes things happen and you have no one posting in your epic for months. Trust me when I say I had to take several years to finish this character's first death. Even then I'm only nearing the end of the first leg of this guys journey...some seven odd years after beginning.

Oh as a side note, it helps to bring other people in mainly because if you decide to do something stupid, they're likely to whack you upside the head and remind you you're being an idiot. I can't tell you how good Sheex is for a sounding board at times, especially in trying to develop a "voice" for the multitude of characters I run.

[Caden Law]

I'm still surprised that Caden, a wizard who not only Did It but can smash mountains and gods is not yet epic enough to have learnt an Unlock Door spell......I'd hang a lampshade on that, but he kind of already did something similar in the Ain't No Rest for the Wizard thread. :(

...although I'm sure I could find SOME WAY to make use of that...

[Uukan Kimari]

multiple characters does not imply other people*

[Duffy]

As Saiketsu goes to show, not to nudge and wink and float my own boat of course.