The Adventurer's Crown: An Althanas Quest Tournament Poll

[Ther]

Hey everyone,

I've been hearing a little bit of talk lately from some of you about wanting to take a break from the battle tournaments and wanting to see Althanas run a quest tournament. While you may get your wish sooner than later, I'm also wondering how many of you would like to see a return of the old Adventurer's Crown (and by "old" I mean it ran last year) tourney.

I'm going to post a poll then and I'd like you guys to tell me if you'd participate or not in the Adventurer's Crown if we decided to run it this year. Also, those of you last year can feel free to post memories, thoughts, recollections about the last time it ran and things you'd like to see changed if it were to run again.

[Vorin]

God, bring it back. This is the tournament that was around when I first joined Althanas. My first character was in the thing as a stand in. Bring it back Santh, bring it back! *simpson fist shake*

[grim137]

I would definately participate in the AC if it came back. It was really fun last year and provided a nice alternative to the battle tournaments. My one suggestion would be not to implement such harsh exp penalties for inactivity as it caused a lot of people who would have otherwise joined not to join for fear of the penalty.

[Daggertail]

I'm not sure, I was in the last one and things fell apart for me because the plots were too epic to be done in a week or too, might be fun but I dunno. though I would participate in it before any other tournament.

[Slayer of the Rot]

I loved the AC. So yes, yes, and yes.

[Walter]

It sure sounds interesting, I just don't know if it's for me though. Bet I could give it a try!

[Cyrus the virus]

I chose not sure. I don't like the concept of the AC, since we should really do more Featured Quests and the AC kind of seems to... Be what we should doing on a regular basis, or something.

Then again, I got my wicked flame dagger of Slykrit from the first one... And that's taken me pretty far with Luc.

I'll probably participate with Izvilvin or Artume, I don't know.

[Daggertail]

I chose not sure. I don't like the concept of the AC, since we should really do more Featured Quests and the AC kind of seems to... Be what we should doing on a regular basis, or something.


actually I think the AC could be better than a lot of featured quests, those get too big for people like me and there's more room for new people to shine within their team than for them to shine in a huge FQ with several people.

But I think there should be at least two or three weeks to finish and keep the quests simple.

[Letho]

I'm not sure either. While I definitely prefer quests over battles, the idea of a timed quest is something that I'm not too fond of. I like the story to develop. I want to be able to stop at the middle of it and say: "Hey, I want to take this story in a different direction that might need one more page of posts." If I could get a reliable team and the pressure isn't too great, then maybe, but I'm not certain.

[Daggertail]

oh yeah, who will be running it this time?

[Zerith]

The only reason I didn't join the last AC was because I was positive I didn't have enough internet access.

However, now that I have my own place, computer and internet connection. I wouldn't miss it if it came back.

[Roscar Palidyne]

Sounds interesting. I'd participate, I think, but timed is kind of hard to do. Time constraints could differ with every person, and plus there's the whole "brain going dead because you've rp'ed your face off". And time zones to think about too. I'll try it though.

[Storm Veritas]

Yes, but I would like more assurance in the follow through this time. Last time getting left out twisting in the wind sucked.

[Torin Reahkari]

I'd love to reunite the Four Winds for the tournament if it happens but we're missing two of them. @_@

Yeah, I'd do the AC again.

[Ther]

Yes, but I would like more assurance in the follow through this time. Last time getting left out twisting in the wind sucked.

Think you could fill me in on what happened then?

[Makira]

I'll do it. I've rarely ever participated in any tournament, and I would enjoy seeing if I could make it through this one.

[Storm Veritas]

Sure. The mods at the time went AWOL, combined with major server problems that hurt Access, and the contest wasn't finished. The finals were completely abandoned, and by the time Max tried to fix things, half the people that were still in the tourney had left Althanas.

There were EXP awards given to those still around, but I know at least 3 guys that were fairly active posters that were shooed away by the whole ordeal.

AC requires more mod work than any other tourney, because they have to be very active questmasters. It's a lot to ask of any mod, and if the mod doesn't have full confidence in activity, it won't work.

[Daggertail]

yeah storm was right, though I think the mods should take a step back and let things roll on their own. assign the task and let the players finish it without goofy interferance, the outside QM thing really was unfair if a team got stuck with someone disinterested.

[Jasmine]

The only reasons I didn't participate last time were:
1. The EXP penalty. I felt it was entirely too harsh to risk.
2. The timing. I have a hard time keeping up with things on the forum sometimes because of time zones. But mostly, I know my limits and I knew I would not be able to come up with anything decent within a week. If you made the time closer to 2-4 weeks, I would like that much better.

[Elrundir]

I wasn't even around for the last one, but the idea of a quest tournament doesn't really seem like my cup of tea. =\ I like quests and all, but in my experience I've never seen a quest fast enough to end within the span of a tournament round. ^^;; Still, as I said, I don't really know the whole details about it, so maybe I could be enticed to join in.

[Artifex Felicis]

I'd participate, simply for the fact it was pretty fun while it lasted, though the punishments and whatnot weren't too nice. I don't think I ever got a bonus for anything though for making it to that latest round. Not to the best of my knowledge. Though, assuming there is no truly epic plot that is required to be followed no matter what, it should work out.

I'm alive again, too.

[Chidori Draconid]

I'm game.

[Toy Soldier]

So am I.

[Dissinger]

I would have to agree with Storm, if we can finish what we start, this could work. I also was rather put off by the fact that we were left unattended by our QM for the most of the tournament, then turned around and at the end had it all snatched from us as we had gone to far unsupervised. Thats no slight to the mod in charge of our group, I just don't want someone to think they had control over their quest only to have it snatched away at the end.

I also had other reasons I didn't like the last one, but that was more the storyboard that they were trying to create than the actual tournament.

EDIT: If we fix the problems of last year, yes, I'll do it.

[Molotov]

It depended on the following things.

1) Who runs it. Santh, yes. Either Dirks or Madison, no. Someone else, depends on who that someone else is.

2) Timing. If it started today, I don't think other responsiblities would allow me to join. Perhaps later I'll have more time.

3) What kind of organization it had. I probably would be more reluctant to join if there was no EXP penalty. I liked how that kept people on their toes. Also, while timed quests may be a bit more problematic, I understand that is just an understandable cost of being in a tournament.

[Cyrus the virus]

No EXP penalty gives people the convenience of people being unable to stop posting. I mean, really, you fuck your peers when you decide not to post anymore. Regardless of how busy you are, it is a decision. Since you have to rely on someone besides yourself, the LCC should have had experience penalties as well.

Nobody deserves to get screwed out of a tournament because of someone else. I think the EXP penalties were totally warrented and necessary for the other 2-3 people on a team.

[Daggertail]

wow umm... I'm surprised that there are people who want EXP penalties. Quote frankly I find them mean and uneeded, just added stress to the players and since I come here for fun I won't join if they are used. In the first round of the AC I soloed the end, and I did it so my team members wouldn't sufffer EXP penalties and I didn't feel screwed over as well. Then the next quest, I was burnt out so I took a break and not posted at all because it would suck and my team mates understood. no one had any problems and there was no need for penalties. No one deserves to have the EXP that they earned taken away because they, have RL problems, Burn out or end up having plans they made before the touney. If you really want to screw yourself and your teammates, write while having a burn out, you'll suck the fun right out of the quest.

I'm just really sick of that the only tounament I think I could have fun in would add BS like EXP penalties, when last time it was an idea that people gave up on it and rightfully so. God these tournaments really need more trust.

[Toy Soldier]

I'm all for the EXP penalties as well. I competed in last year's tournament as well and I loved the fact that people had to think long and hard about whether or not to join the Adventurer's Crown before registering excitedly, only to later abandon their teammates.

[AsukaStrikes]

There are pros and cons of the EXP Penalty:

Pros: Like so many stated before, it keeps people on their toes and the only people in it are those who are committed to finishing it. IT also somewhat keeps the number of competitors down as well and discourages "casual" Rpers who don't like the idea of "power under duress."

Cons: ...And somewhat linked to the Pros, the number of participants are low. It could also mean people with great imagination and creativity are put off by it and end up not entering. Also, it sucks bad for those who have RL issues in mid-flight and have to abandon the tourney. As with every tourney, it is major suxage.

Well, nothing new methinks. I'll take part, provided my teammates can keep up with activity.

[Cyrus the virus]

wow umm... I'm surprised that there are people who want EXP penalties. Quote frankly I find them mean and uneeded, just added stress to the players and since I come here for fun I won't join if they are used. In the first round of the AC I soloed the end, and I did it so my team members wouldn't sufffer EXP penalties and I didn't feel screwed over as well. Then the next quest, I was burnt out so I took a break and not posted at all because it would suck and my team mates understood. no one had any problems and there was no need for penalties. No one deserves to have the EXP that they earned taken away because they, have RL problems, Burn out or end up having plans they made before the touney. If you really want to screw yourself and your teammates, write while having a burn out, you'll suck the fun right out of the quest.

I'm just really sick of that the only tounament I think I could have fun in would add BS like EXP penalties, when last time it was an idea that people gave up on it and rightfully so. God these tournaments really need more trust.

These tournaments would have more trust if they weren't inactive EVERY TIME. Would you open your eyes?

Why are you against about EXP penalties if you can be active? You've dropped out of quests before. I'm sure if it happened to you enough, you'd want the people who dropped out due to unimportant reasons to suffer a penalty as well.

It's easy, very easy to finish a quest solo. But writing an entire one solo when both of your partners drop out is not. Think of someone besides yourself, plz. K. Rulez.

[Daggertail]

These tournaments would have more trust if they weren't inactive EVERY TIME. Would you open your eyes?

Why are you against about EXP penalties if you can be active? You've dropped out of quests before. I'm sure if it happened to you enough, you'd want the people who dropped out due to unimportant reasons to suffer a penalty as well.

It's easy, very easy to finish a quest solo. But writing an entire one solo when both of your partners drop out is not. Think of someone besides yourself, plz. K. Rulez.
I find what you said right there more hurtful than all my abandoned quests and battle put together. And I’ve had plenty. Does that mean you deserve to lose some exp and maybe a level?

Who says I'm thinking only of myself. I'm only against the idea for punishment. It's unnecessary and cruel. I don’t think people’s characters should be hurt because of an OOC mistake of joining a tourney and having something come up or lose their inspiration. Why should they be punished, because their teammates might not win a tournament, losing something that they built up and earned is way worse than losing a tournament, hell they’re not going to win the tournament either so they are in the same boat.

The positive reward of winning the AC should be enough to keep activity up and if you saw anything of the last AC then you would notice the EXP penalty did not dissuade any one from not dropping out and many players did anyways, so many in fact that none of the EXP mods wanted to even bother doing the penalty because it would be tedious with no other effect than to make people unhappy if they ever returned. So all it did was stress out the active player to rush and meet the requirements. Maybe there is some sick satisfaction in seeing a mod punish the horrible person that cost you your moment I the light of being champion because he had to work extra that week and was too tired or had to go with his family to somewhere or had to watch a friends dog with no internet connection or the internet just died on them or they just ended up feeling burnt out and need a break. Imagine if you were that person and found your character set back with a Mod going “Shame on you!” You might leave for good, I know there’s a good chance I would and you know what, I’d rather there would be more people who enjoyed RPing on Althanas than winning every single tournament from here to eternity. I don’t care if my partners drop out and I have to solo a quest or whatever, and I suck at solos.

Don’t you dare call me selfish because I want the EXP penalty not to return because I think it’s unnecessarily cruel, even if the player jut ends up with nerves that give him cold feet with AC quests and can’t post in it while he posts in his quests where there isn’t the apprehension of expectation. He didn’t drop out because he wanted to hurt his partners but he’s afraid or just having writer’s block, he’s not going ”I’m doing this so I can see my partner lose the AC and cry.” It isn’t out of malevolence or anything like that and it shouldn’t be punished like a guy who would break into your RP saying disruptive OOC things.

[Cyrus the virus]

Man, you're dillusional. You pull so many fake motives out of your ass for my wanting the EXP penalty that it makes me sick. Look, not everything I say is some sick, twisted plan for me to win a tournament or some other ridiculous trash. Grow up.

And I'm out of here before I say something that'll give me a warning. From now on, I'm just going to avoid you.

[Serilliant]

And I'm out of here before I say something that'll give me a warning.
Too late. It's clear to me that some individuals are having a great level of difficulty keeping with civility lately. Let's try to keep to the discussion at hand and leave the personal attacks at home, alright?

[Sighter Tnailog]

A few things, for the record...

It has been said by some people that the reason I shouldn't run the next AC is because I flake out. Let's just put this rumor to rest.

When I resigned some time ago, mid-AC, I said that I would stay on the mod forum for the sole purpose of concluding the Adventurer's Crown. However, during the brief time that this was happening, I saw several key players vanish from Althanas -- Gild and Twisted Infinitum vanished, and it was looking more and more like Damon, who was Enforcing on one account and competing on another, would be leaving around the same time I did -- Ashiakin too, another of my main Enforcers, vanished, and I saw little to no activity out of Zieg. This is, of course, not their fault -- the fault lay in the tournament design, which ended up encouraging too much work on the part of enforcers and too little on the part of players.

What is more, Manda left, and I was seeing diminishing activity from certain key members of other groups. With Manda gone, I had one team whose estimated number was 0 participants, another team missing at least two players, and another team whose players were dropping off Althanas like flies.

Couple this with server difficulty every day and the need for six hours just to get routine work done, and it was obvious that keeping the AC going was untenable. Even had no resignations occurred, it would have been next to impossible to continue the tournament in its previous form.

Also, let me add that I had not designed the tournament with the intention of Enforcers playing extremely forceful roles in quests. So the accusation of an Enforcer "leaving" a thread to die is relatively silly. Enforcers weren't contestant babysitters -- at least they weren't supposed to be -- but in retrospect the involved storyline required them to act in a more prominent fashion.

Any future tournament design should take this into account. As to who runs it, the Adventurer's Crown was my idea originally, from its first days as an idea, to its first run as the Anebrilith Hunter's Challenge, to its most recent incarnation as the AC itself. I reserve rights to run it -- however, with my time constraints, I would be fine with transferring those rights to another on a limited basis, and Santh is as good a contestant as any.

[Alberdyne_Cormyr]

I always thought that the AC was a terrific idea, but it was hassled by so many OOC problems going on at the time.

I was one of those people who put together an awesome team and for one reason or another my squad completely vanished after a while. I had a huge epic story planned for WHY all of us were even in the AC to begin with, and I communicated heavily with Madison, and my one quest's ST. (Ashiakin) We didn't pull enough points to make it to the next round but the building blocks for an awesome quest was there.

I wish I could have been on one of the winning teams.

If there is another AC I would probably join it and try my best to see it through to the end. It would definitely be interesting for me to try and see what kinds of great stories I come up with playing as Alberdyne and not my original character Lorenor. I certainly look forward to it.

By the by, I've always been AGAINST an Experience Docking rule, BUT the way it was structured in the AC allowed for plenty of leniance with people to simply contact Madison or any of the other ST's if they were unable to complete the tourney. I think that the set up was fair.

I'm in agreement with John though that placing a Experience docking rule for Althanas as a whole would be counter-productive.

That's my two cents.

[Futsuriai]

In all honesty I feel practically all major tournaments should have an unexplained inactivity docking system. Perhaps gold, perhaps exp, perhaps some IC privilidges (e.g. becoming wanted in the tournament region for flaking out, or being DQed from the next one). Why? Because even in a one player tournament it's really unfair to have the other player not post, especially having them not post two or three posts in. It messes up storylines a lot. Really. IC it also doesn't make much sense to enter a tournament then not show up, I feel like the tournament organizers would take revenge on whoever screwed them out of proift or whatnot. Also usually a tournament of the nature of most of the ones we have probably don't have first-come, first-serve entries ICly (I think) perhaps requiring some commitment from the players such as an entry fee, or a safety loan which is returned upon completion win or lose (and kept if not perhaps leading to a quest to get it back). Anywho that's what I feel, Tournaments seem to be entirely too OOC for my tastes; how do people find out about them? How do people on different continents all get there simultaneously? What goes on behind the scenes? (I think Max did some of this with the Theatre but I don't really see this happening for anything else). Where do the rewards come from? etc, etc. Sure, a nice battle tournament is good but considering the emphasis we put on IC consistency I'd like tournaments to adhere to that more strictly.

As for the AC I would love to see it return. Battle tournaments aren't my cup of tea, none of my characters, ever, has really been made in a way that's compatible with a battle tournament. I would like the AC to return in a manner similar to an FQ where there's no tournament organizers, per se, but instead there's some kind of event which causes people to band in groups for some kind of purpose. Something not as artificial as the Gisela (which I also want a more explained incarnation of). I think that's that, it would help me out lots because when tournaments are merely an incorporeal event not really attached to the world I can't use them very well.

Oh, as long as I'm at it I also want a non-tourney Feature where there's something like Ithermoss's war of the gods with a Risk-like field and army battles with no timelimits, per se, but inactivity losses. (Perhaps with some kind of qualifier to enter (e.g. a quest to become one of the factions' battle leader). That would be awesometastic.

[Sighter Tnailog]

Excellent points, Fut and Aberdyne. Personally, I think the entry fee requirement would make some sense -- but I can see it being problematic. If the fee was too much, newer characters couldn't play. If it was too little, people with money would think nothing of it -- they could be inactive as much as they want, because they're losing a fraction of what they put in.

I think a percentage-based deposit of 50% of your total GP -- with a minimum of 100 and a maximum of 2000 -- makes sense. You would get your deposit back when you leave the tournament either in victory or loss -- but if you are disqualified due to inactivity, you do not get the deposit back.

As to the AC, this time around I've already had some ideas on how to run it without Enforcers and without the need for strict control of the storyline.

[Chidori Draconid]

Something not as artificial as the Gisela (which I also want a more explained incarnation of).
Vorin actually sent me a copy of the IC origin of the Gisela Open. It was writen by Max Dirks I believe. Anyways it seemed to give a proper explanation the tournament. And from what I hear ICly most of these tournaments need little in terms of an explanation. The Serenti(sp) Invitationa takes place in the town it's named after and people come to compete, just like a popular martial arts tournament in LA.

I would like the AC to return in a manner similar to an FQ where there's no tournament organizers, per se, but instead there's some kind of event which causes people to band in groups for some kind of purpose.After reading up (when I should be writing my region lol) I'd have to say that I agree. The Tular Plains Featured quest looks like it would make for a great "tournament". The challenge is OOC maintenance, and how much time and effort is required of the mods. The less the better I say.

[Letho]

I think a percentage-based deposit of 50% of your total GP -- with a minimum of 100 and a maximum of 2000 -- makes sense. You would get your deposit back when you leave the tournament either in victory or loss -- but if you are disqualified due to inactivity, you do not get the deposit back.This is like the best idea I heard so far. I say we seriously consider enforcing something along those lines for the tournaments. Entry fee makes sense not only in OOC sense to keep people active, but in the IC sense as well. Character comes to register, pays the fee to enter, it seems more natural.

[Cyrus the virus]

I agree with that 50%-of-your-gold entry fee for tournaments. It makes complete sense, and also... It could really enrich the pot for the top 3 winners, too!

I think it's perfect, honestly. If the winners don't get the gold, it can always be returned to the player provided they were active and just lost from the judging.

It absolutely should be considered!

Also, thanks Fut for being much more eloquent than I.

[Sighter Tnailog]

Yeah, Cyrus, the deposit would be kept ONLY if you were taken out of the tournament due to inactivity. If you lost despite active efforts against your opponent, you would get the deposit back. It would punish only inactivity.

[Cyrus the virus]

Seems to make a lot of sense. And it's not like an EXP penalty, where it could potentially cripple you.

[Molotov]

I agree with that 50%-of-your-gold entry fee for tournaments. It makes complete sense, and also... It could really enrich the pot for the top 3 winners, too!

I think it's perfect, honestly. If the winners don't get the gold, it can always be returned to the player provided they were active and just lost from the judging.

It absolutely should be considered!

Also, thanks Fut for being much more eloquent than I.

I think that instead of giving the gold to the winners, it should go to the remaining teammates who lost out because they didn't have reliable posting buddies. For example, if Cyrus, Bob and I are on a team, Bob fails to post and loses his 2000 GP deposit, Cyrus and I should get that 2000 GP split between us as compensation. Like Cyrus pointed out earlier, the people most effected by tournament withdrawals are the competitors.

Also, I would like to remind people that no one is obligated to sign up for a tournament. Going on a vacation? Don't join! Not enough time for five posts a week? Don't join! It's that simple.

Personally, I think people who are inactive for one tournament should be punished in that they are banned for the next. That way they don't lose anything but the trust they violated.

[Sighter Tnailog]

That's not a bad idea at all, actually, but I think it should be coupled with the entry deposit. I like the idea, though, of losing the deposit to the person who was harmed by your inactivity.

Also, what about this plan for the next AC...

An adventurer's board, with a number of missions equal to the number of teams. Teams would claim the mission they wanted on a first-come, first-served basis, and have a limited amount of time to complete the mission. Does that sound like a good idea? Later rounds could involve quests that are planned by the groups and set into motion based on previous quests they undertook.

[Molotov]

I like the board idea, but I would like there to be some relatively simplistic, but overarching plot.

[Cyrus the virus]

Sounds like a very interesting idea, Maddy. Better than being stuffed into a premade quest that you might not feel totally up for, really. And I agree with people not being allowed to compete in the next tournament if they fart out with bad activity. I think a lot of people might be against it just to be safe, though, and that's a shame. For the greater good of tournaments, we really need to use a method like this to limit the amount of people who drop out. As of now, there's no reason not to drop out of a tournament if you're not feeling up to posting.

Also, for the record, the team of me, Shyam and Bob would rule. :p Electric Flame Tornado!

[Alberdyne_Cormyr]

I have another idea that was kinda touched upon in the original AC but nobody really took advantage of it. (That I saw)

I for one felt really frustrated that my squad had to dissolve the way it did. I hand picked two people that were closely tied in to my character's storyline and as I mentioned earlier I wanted a coherent reason why my character (And as a result theirs) were involved in the tournament. There was a small rule for the AC that at least in the beginning, if your team dissolved you could make new teams with members of the roster who still wanted to be active and make it to the end of the tournament.

I noticed there was quite a couple of people in the back-logged area of the ranking system that I would have loved to rp with at the time. I think somekind of fail-safe system to allow people to form impromptu teams on the fly should the worse come to pass and a team dissolves (As Molotov and some others were saying) and hurt the progress of more active members.

I would love to have made it to the end of that tournament. Somehow I've never been able to complete a tournament on Althanas and I was really hoping that the AC would be my first. Either my character has always died, or partners I rped with vanished off. I think a reliable fail-safe system to reward people who actually DO want to roleplay and complete the tournament make a lot of sense to me.

If a team dissolves members should be put into some kind of ranking pool and they can pick and choose amongst themselves what teams they want to form together. Even if characters have NO back history together, I think impromptu team ups could make for incredible story-telling possibilities.

As far as the money deposit goes, I'm in agreement. I would even take it a step further and suggest that the level of the character applying to the tournament be taken into consideration as well as how much money is available to them.

A level 5 character is not the same as a level 1 character. I think configuring a sweet entry fee system should take that into consideration also.

As far as splitting the entry fees goes, I'm not comfortable with this idea. I think that it should just go to the gambling pot. (In other words what some people were suggesting that kept deposits should be returned to active players) Keep it in the gambling pot, and reward players who actually choose the winners with that.