'Roach' Workshop

[Otto]

Rules

1. You may criticise the thread only. This is not a venue for spamming, trolling, flaming, or otherwise bashing, demonising or demoralising individuals.

2. This forum is for Workshop Judgements and Post-by-post critique. If you have an ongoing thread, create your own workshop. If an individual has been exemplary in helping you through the writing process, contact Core Member, Hoytii, who will be able to help you reward that contributor appropriately!

3. Take criticism well. The comments here aim to help writers improve. Do not get disheartened if someone says something ill of your work, but rather, use his or her critique to improve.

Atzar Kellon has requested a workshop judgement for 'Roach (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?25494-Roach)'.

Contributing to these workshops is a great way to read other people's work, come across new ideas, improve your understanding of the world, and also to find something good to read. You'll also be doing the site a great service in the process, and so I would like to reiterate the rewards granted to workshop contributors:


Every reviewer who meaningfully contributes to the workshop will receive, regardless of their post count in the workshop, 3-5% of the total EXP needed to gain a level, as well as 50 GP. So a level zero would gain 100 EXP per thread, a level one would gain 150 EXP, level two 200 EXP and so on. This is discretionary.

The most helpful and meaningful reviewer will receive a bonus of 100 GP, meaning 150 GP in total.

As Mordelain has been offering further incentives to get the workshops rolling, I see no issue in doing the same here. Contributors will receive an additional 50gp, and the best contributor will receive double experience.

Have fun!

[Zook Murnig]

Alright, I gave this a quick read through, and what follows is some excerpts from my notes.


2-Pyralis

In contrast to Atzar's opening post, where the viewpoint character was clear from the first paragraph, your opening post is a little confusing on who's who until finally Pyralis is introduced, and that's only orienting because of your username. Don't depend on your username or your postbit to provide essential information about your characters, nor should you rely on your registered profile for that purpose either (though I haven't had to do that with you yet).

Otherwise, I do feel like the "change" and the glowing stiff get quite a quick pass over for what an apparently devastating event it seems to be.

3-Pyralis

While the rest of the post has a lot of environmental detail provided, and done reasonably well at that, the first sentence has an annoying trait to it. When you describe something, don't immediately change your mind. If it's not "direct sun," don't describe it as such and turn back to say it wasn't really direct sun. Instead you might write about how the noontime sun brightened the smog of the city to a blinding haze. As well, while you did mention how uncomfortable the conditions would be, you didn't show how uncomfortable they were for Pyralis. You just said what it was like, and then said she ignored it for the purpose of hiding in her big coat.

Also, the post seems top-heavy because of the frontload of setting details, which are promptly forgotten for a small amount of action. Spread out those details by incorporating them into the action. It makes your post seem more meaty, and it forces you to impart action onto the environment to get those details out, a nice way to boost both Action and Setting scores.

Finally, Gravebeard is mentioned, and as an avid believer in the principle of Chekov's gun (if you have a gun on the mantlepiece early in a story, the gun should be fired by the end), I sincerely hope he plays a part in the events to come.

9-Pyralis

Be careful about the use of a thesaurus. A shiv is, by its nature, not well-crafted, and too unbalanced for throwing effectively. Instead, they are meant for unexpected stabbings, since that's about the only way they could possibly be useful other than to give a couple of grazing wounds before breaking, bending, or otherwise failing.

Also, keep in mind that the human body is more than a shell containing fluid that leaks out of injuries. There are muscles, bones, sinews, and synapses under every inch of our skin. When we get stabbed in the shoulder, it's not just a light cut that makes us bleed. It severs muscle fibers, incredibly painfully, and might even cause nerve damage that could make the arm less effective, or useless. And if he was stabbed above the collarbone, he would likely be bleeding out on the floor as soon as he managed to open the wound up by pulling the knife out (if he had the strength to do so with such a grievous injury). The carotid artery is on the side of the neck, almost a direct line from the heart, carrying all of the blood necessary for your brain and the rest of your head.

What I'm saying here is be mindful of how you describe your attacks, and be mindful of their effects.

1-Atzar

Good opening, with action to draw the reader in. The character of Jance seems interesting, and you give him the air of competence that speaks of a career bounty hunter, but while your use of phrasing and wording lent a lot of characterization to him, the degree to which you took that struck me a little odd here: "some magical ability it could bestow, yadda yadda yadda." Specifically the use of "yadda, yadda," which would fit better in a first-person point of view, as the reader is then subject to the narrative of the character, not just his general feelings on the events. It's a quibble, though.

4-Atzar

Decent characterization for Atzar, basically that he's a shallow, pessimistic, vengeful jerk, as always. I especially appreciated the appellation of "Bruised Ones" for the dark elves, and how you remained consistent with it.

Atzar and Pyralis

The odd thing, and hard to get around, about bunnying, is that it's hard to really do another writer's character justice, and their actions tend to get glossed over. The only way to fix that is to then go back and rewrite the action yourself on your post, which defeats the purpose of effective bunnying. This is especially egregious in the case of describing magic. Even though an ability is listed in a character's profile, it doesn't really go into the how of it. Every magic user uses their powers differently, with different methodology and flavor to effectively identical spells.

[Otto]

Going to provide some feedback myself. Gave it a very quick read, and this is just a summary of my notes for each post on the few things I picked up. Definitely not as in-depth as Zook's dissection, but hopefully, you'll get something out of it. Relevant post numbers are listed, with Pyralis' in purple and Atzar's in green.


2. "The sound was lost to the noise and additional rush of water which ran not far from their feet, the only barrier between them and sewage being their small community's most recent loss" - kind of ambiguous, here - for a long, long time, it read as though the running water is preventing the sewage from "being their small community's most recent loss".

4. " Strange or not, they were heading quickly in the wrong direction" - minor clarity concern; how is it the 'wrong' direction, exactly? Seems to imply that Atzar knows their destination, and that they're off-course.

8. May have overdone Atzar's anguish in here just a smidgeon.

9. "... until he caught her what he hoped to be quite viciously across the abdomen" - this just reads a little awkwardly, as does the following sentence (might be improved by adding a comma right after "It was difficult to tell", thus turning " in the shadow of the grand stone structures around them" into a parenthesis).

15. Minor typo: "came for the him". Quick re-reads should fix these sorts of things.

16. The ending - that part concerning the action - didn't pack much of a punch. That Swanra'ann's thugs would be bested without a cost never seemed to be in doubt, so there wasn't a huge 'high' to come down from.


So nothing really in-depth here, mostly just some suggestions for tidier writing.

[Atzar]

Thanks a lot for the feedback; it's all useful stuff. Keep it coming!

[Flames of Hyperion]

* Disclaimer: This is informal, subjective advice from somebody who's not very accomplished at handing out such. Treat accordingly. Without further ado!

Story:

I've said this before, but I'll say it again - I really enjoy Luned / Pyralis's Ettermire storyline, and anything building on it is fully welcome!

Great hook in the opening post from Atzar. The transition to confrontation in post 6 felt a bit forced, though, which is a shame. I would have appreciated a couple more moments of Pyralis and Atzar on their own, getting to know each other via tense stand-off.

The battles, too, felt a bit awkward in places. Zook and Otto have already covered my main qualms: the action swung back and forth so much that it was difficult to keep a coherent picture of what was happening in my head, and the finale was almost anticlimactic in how swiftly it ended in favour of the main characters.

Finally, it might have tied things off a lot neater if you could have worked Jance's mysterious employer a bit more into the story. Even having one of the thugs exclaim, "She's really not going to like this!" or similar during the battle would have helped keep her in the back of the mind - and she might have been a better choice for name-dropping early on rather than Gravebeard (who you did such a good job name-dropping, it's a shame he didn't actually appear!). I did appreciate the way you worked towards Helethra's appearance though.


Background:

Perhaps not as clear as I, as a reader, would appreciate. From Pyralis's opening post, I got the vibe that child funerals unfortunately occurred as a matter of life in the sewers, but a few more words could have also elaborated on why and how as well. Not until post number five was it fully explained. I'll reiterate that I really do enjoy her motives and overall storyline though.

I felt that Atzar did little to establish his story beyond name-dropping Radasanth - I never got any idea of why he was in Ettermire in the first place, or more than a superficial feeling for why he suddenly grew interested in the sprite. Maybe it was just the case that he did everything on little more than a whim, which wouldn't be a bad thing, just not clear enough from this short story.


Characters:

Atzar is a fun character to read. His entrance in the story - and the damningly honest verdict he passes on Ettermire - establishes him firmly and swiftly as a character. I'll second Zook's previous comment: "The Bruised Ones" is a perfect appellation, not only to describe the dark elves but to characterise Atzar as well! A slight shame he didn't get to use it much in the latter part of the thread. Bonus points for the NPCs in the opening post, who were established almost as well as Atzar himself, which allowed them to neatly rejoin the story halfway through.

Pyralis on the other hand took a bit more time to build up, partly because she shared the limelight in her entrance with named NPCs (equally well done). You label her as 'socially inept', but she comes off more as a caring mother figure in the first couple of posts, and the impression only gets firmer once she takes the sprite beneath her wing.

Helethra, as always, is scary beyond her years. Good to see her still kicking arse ^^.


Technique:

Zook and Otto have already picked out numerous examples, so I'll just leave you with some basic thoughts here.

Atzar's posts felt slightly rough in places: duplicating words in close proximity, some areas where the sentences don't quite flow together. Taking the time to slowly re-read them out loud, paying attention to the above, would easily solve any issues I found with them.

Pyralis: perhaps consider using shorter, more concise sentences to help create atmosphere at certain scenes (i.e. the funeral). One technique I tend to use is to ask myself whenever I use a conjunction or a comma: do I really need this as a single sentence, or do I feel it would read better separately?

* In closing: the malign darkness below Ettermire continues to spread!

[Luned]

Thanks so much for the feedback, everyone! I found Pyralis hard to write with for her first thread, so I'm grateful to have some insights.

[The Sweetest Thing]

I'm just going to grab a post from each of you that hasn't been focused on yet and bring to light a few mechanical and techical things that hopefully will help throughout your writings. To start, I'll say you're both very good writers, and I enjoyed this brief reading :)

Please note that I'm not trying to say all of these changes should have been made, or that any rule I point out is true 100% of the time. I'm merely finding pieces of writing that reflect a potential lesson, and focusing on them.


It didn't take long for Pyralis to notice their unwanted shadow. She reached out with her left hand to grasp the foundling's wrist; her right remained firmly stowed away in its pocket, held tight against her body. "Trust me," she whispered. Its skin was the same as hers now, a warm brown with a purple flush, but Pyralis didn't have time to analyze the change. It only confirmed her suspicion that this might possibly be one of them: Ettermire's meager, but steadily growing, population of mutated youngsters, developmentally affected by poor and polluted living conditions. There was a price to such great progress in technology and industry, and it fell on their generation to pay.
-Great opening sentence; even though I started in the middle of the story, it immediately rooted me in what was going on.
-The next two sentences show great awareness of your character's movements, but could have been streamlined. Consider "She grasped the foundling's wrist with her right hand, keeping her left stowed in its pocket tight against her body." All I did was remove some words, really, and all the information is still there without the extra words and punctuation. I think Flames mentioned something about re-thinking your use of commas, and I'll say it's even more important with semi-colons. Any time you use one of those ins prose, try to ensure there aren't any better options.
-Technically the dialogue "trust me" should have started its own new line.
-The sentence starting with "Ettermire's meager" has about three more commas than it needs. Also if you really wanted to flense that, technically you don't need "meager" or "steadily". Saying "the growing population" implies the same information.
-Great closing sentence, like the opening. In both of those you found a way to say a lot while using very few words. Love it.


As the pair rounded a corner into an alley, Pyralis glanced over her shoulder to steal a glimpse of their follower. The fair foreigner stood out like a sore thumb amongst the largely dark elven populace, his avoidance of passers-by evidence that he was perhaps just as lost as he was determined to tail them.
The comparison "like a sore thumb" you chose is a simile, but it's also a known stereotype. You can make your writing even stronger by thinking of more character driven ways to express the same thought. What equivalent would Pyralis use? It's not always possible to find alternate similes to the tried and true ones, but it can be a lot of fun to try, and when it works out you may have just generated amazingly unique dialogue.


It might have been Pyralis' paranoid sense of self-preservation which warned her of this danger, either to herself or the creature whom she strung along with increasing force. It stumbled after her, gripping the blanket over its shoulders as it urged its limp into a pained half-jog. The elf didn't care to look in her hurry, but in their wake they left an inky trail of blood which stained the dry earth an odd, alien indigo.
The first sentence ran on a bit here. You could have cut it down to "It might have been Pyralis' paranoid sense of self preservation which warned her of the danger. (and then the rest in a new sentence. I wasn't actually sure what you were trying to say with the second part of that sentence, so I can't re-write an example :P)


"We have to run now," she explained to the foundling, her voice cool and quiet. "Not far." That was as much coddling as she'd offer before taking off, tearing down the alley and dodging into a second which ran between two behemoths of buildings. The gray stone around them rose so high that the structures blocked out what modest amount of sun the smog allowed, casting deep shadow over the narrow path. The other end opened at the river's edge, where she knew a place their pursuer could not follow…

But the foundling was so terribly slow with its injury, and no amount of insistence could coax it to move quickly enough. Pyralis slowed to get a good look at it, sizing it up, but it was no use –– in spite of its somewhat smaller stature, it was too big to carry.

"Can you speak?" she asked, watching under its faded gray hood for some sign of comprehension.

After a short silence, the sound of footsteps approached from behind as their shadow caught up to them. Pyralis' sigh of lamentation caught in her throat as the foundling finally replied.

"Run," she thought it said.
Last thing is try to avoid referring to other characters as "it" repeatedly. You ended up in a spot here where you didn't know the guy's name, and you'd already called him "the foundling" so many times you needed another option. This is where internal nicknaming can be fun. Sometmes when people get frustrated or otherwise escalated, they refer to others (whether mentally or aloud) in less than flattering ways. Something like "the lame mutant" would have been appropriate and effective here, I think.

Still working on one for Atzar. Hope this helps a bit!

[The Sweetest Thing]

“Hey! Wait!” the mage called after the pair as they retreated away from the main boulevard. They gave no indication that they heard his call, ducking into first one passage, then another. Atzar cursed under his breath. He had heard horror stories about Ettermire’s underbelly, of murderers and mutants and monsters. He felt no inclination to learn how many of those tales were rooted in fact, and truth be told he returned the Aleraran hostility toward outsiders with a distrust of his own. His fingertips danced to and fro as he ran, ready to call forth his magic at a moment’s notice.

I'm going to make a note on dialogue later, for this I just want to point out your final sentence would have been about twice as powerful if you'd removed "to and fro". That's another sterotypical writing implement which can be effective at times, but often just takes away from the moment because it reminds me of the other thousand times I've read those same words in that same order.


But the sprite’s injury slowed the pair down greatly. Atzar wasn’t going to win many races without cheating, but he nonetheless caught up to them in short order. They pulled to a halt in the deep valley between two grand structures and turned to face him. Written on one face were the frown and hard-eyed stare of defiance; on the other, sheer panic.

Here I'll draw your attention to the difference in language choices and how they impact the overall flow. You have a tenency to overuse unecessary words. First consider "slowed the pair down greatly". Technically you don't need the "down" part - that's just an English idiom that we use for some reason. Saying they slowed is enough, and saying "greatly" doesn't add any detail, it qualifies as a phony intensifier (like saying "very strong" instead of "strong"). Adding a little something about HOW the sprite's injury slowed them down would have made this more interesting. Other unecessary words in that small paragraph include "nonetheless, up to, short order, and sheer." Sometimes these types of words can add effect, but I feel they took away from it in this instance.

I like the bit about Atzar not winning footraces, but it's awkwardly phrased. Saying "he wasn't going to win many races" almost implies that he's planning on entering races. I think what you were driving at is something more like "Although he'd never won a footrace in his life" or "although he was no fleet-footed runner" or so on and so forth. You could even have gone one further and said "although he was no fleet-footed elf".


The wizard returned their gazes with one of irritation, somewhat out of breath after this unexpected exercise. “Why are you running?” he demanded of the dark elf. “I just want to talk.”

”Talk?” The single word dripped with sarcasm and a hint of a threat. She was a small thing, even cloaked as she was. Even so, she stepped in front of the sprite protectively.

“Yes, talk,” he threw her acidic tone back in her face. Not the most tactful of responses, but then Atzar wasn’t the most tactful of men.

“You’re not from around here, are you? You should be careful who you follow into dark alleys.” The fact that this line came from the mouth of a diminutive dark elven lass who came up to his shoulder was funny. The fact that she then drew a hellish, serrated dagger from within her coat was not.

This wasn’t going at all how the mage had hoped. He sighed and held up his hands, palms out, as a sign of peace. The gesture meant nothing given that he was a wizard, but she didn’t need to know that about him just yet. “Look, I’m Atzar, okay?” he said. “I’m not looking for a fight. I just have a couple of questions that I’m hoping you can answer.”

The sound of heavy footsteps interrupted their cheery small talk. The wizard whirled to see three men entering the far end of the alley. Two of them reached for swords; the third notched an arrow to his bow. “Stay where you are,” the swordsman in the front commanded. “No sudden moves.”

The archer sank to the back and stopped, his arrow trained on Atzar. The other two continued to advance. The mage heard a whimper from the sprite. Fear? Or something more?

“We’re doing this one of two ways,” the leader announced, still advancing with sword at the ready. “Either the human and the elf get lost, or they stay here and die. Because that sprite is mine, and I don’t care what I have to do to get it.”

Other than those same things repeated (especially the use of weak words which could be replaced or removed altogether) I just wanted to make a note on your dialogue. If this were a story taking place in a back alley in Northa America, I would say it's great dialogue. For althanas, I think it could use some work. The phrasing of the dialogue here is just too familiar to me to represent any kind of fantasy setting. Things like "I just want to talk" and "Look, I'm Atzar, okay? I'm not looking for a fight" and "the human and the elf get lost" utilize the same speech patterns that I hear in real life every day. Try mixing it up a bit - either by re-organizing the flow of words to sound more archaic, or by implementing more canon-related terms, or anything else you can think of. It doesn't have to match up with anything perfectly, but giving different characters different rhythms and syntax not only makes the dialogue more compelling, it also makes it easier for the reader to identify who is talking BEFORE they get to the "said atzar" bit.

Keep it up guys! I'm a little hooked, and I may just read more of this at some point.

[Otto]

Pretty excellent (http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/music/Pix/pictures/2009/2/5/1233851426437/Bill-and-Teds-Excellent-A-002.jpg) feedback here. It was actually quite tough to choose which was the 'best' contributor here (with one exception, of course). I would just like to quickly offer some counterpoints to reviews, and then I'll post the awards.



Finally, Gravebeard is mentioned, and as an avid believer in the principle of Chekov's gun (if you have a gun on the mantlepiece early in a story, the gun should be fired by the end), I sincerely hope he plays a part in the events to come.

Worth considering, but (to me) this appeared to work perfectly fine as a) scene-setting and b) a reminder of the shadow that Swanra'ann, ultimately, casts over Alerar.



Perhaps not as clear as I, as a reader, would appreciate. From Pyralis's opening post, I got the vibe that child funerals unfortunately occurred as a matter of life in the sewers, but a few more words could have also elaborated on why and how as well. Not until post number five was it fully explained. I'll reiterate that I really do enjoy her motives and overall storyline though.

We don't need to know everything at once. Asking 'why is it so?' can be one of the best hooks for getting someone to read on, so long as it's clear that is the technique being used and thus that our lack of understanding isn't down to something like poor clarity. Personally, I didn't encounter any such issues in this thread (but it might just be because I'm already acquainted with such goings-on in Ettermire).



-The sentence starting with "Ettermire's meager" has about three more commas than it needs. Also if you really wanted to flense that, technically you don't need "meager" or "steadily". Saying "the growing population" implies the same information.

I beg to differ, on several accounts. First, that sentence wasn't overburdened by commas - two were used to separate a parenthesis, and the third was used at a conjunction in order to combine two clauses. In my opinion, it certainly flows better with them than without. Also, removing 'meager' and 'steadily' does change the sentence. A population can be large and still grow, and steady population increase suggests this mightn't just be random fluctuation. Taken together, one could infer that the problem is quite new, and only getting worse.



EVERYTHING (sobs uncontrollably)



Alright, and the awards are as follows:

Atzar receives 970 experience and 156 gold.
Pyralis receives 780 experience and 175 gold.

Zook Murnig receives 250 experience and 100 gold.
Flames of Hyperion receives 1000 experience and 200 gold. There were some good points here that Zook and I missed out on, and you actually managed to avoid being particularly subjective. Congratulations!
The Sweetest Thing receives 100 experience and 100 gold.
Otto receives 200 experience and 50 gold ('encouragement' gold bonus withheld).

Thanks to everybody for contributing, and to Atzar and Pyralis for the read!

[Otto]

Addendum: this workshop is now closed (just waiting on someone with the power to make it so). Further contributions will not be awarded gold or xp, but will probably still garner the eternal gratitude of the writers.

[Mordelain]

Experience and gold added.