It's not a Girl or a Boy

[Star Strike]

WARNING:
PERSONAL FEELINGS AND SOCIAL JUSTICE ISSUES AHEAD

I am really making myself vulnerable with this thread and out of respect plead that you read this with an open mind and an open heart, no judgement.
This is important and I think three offsite conversations warrant it to be an onsite conversation.
This thread is a reflection of how much this issue means to me and I ask that no one take this as an attack.




What are this?

First the purpose of this thread is to open up and ask the community for recommendations on how to proceed writing a non-binary character

Secondly I want to apologize for everyone I have posted with in the past, currently, and in the near and hopeful far future for the confusion with using "them" and "their" pronouns for Stella. I know this makes things confusing not only for you to reply to but for everyone following the thread and wanting to critique it. (If your character does not know Stella is non-binary, it is acceptable to use female pronouns in your post as that is reflective of your character's perception)

Lastly this thread and apology is not directed at any particular comment made on the workshops for threads I have written but out of my own personal internal conversations and those I've had with others. I deem this not only important to Stella as a character but to me as a writer wanting to properly represent a non-binary character.


Why I use Them/Their:

I have thought long and hard on how to approach writing pronouns for a non-binary character (if you don't believe me ask Cards).

While "it" is easy to use Stella is not an "it". "It" is rude and degrading.

Socially Stella's race does not have a gender as they do not procreate. To them, gender is a part of other cultures and exists but is serves them no purpose as they take many varying shapes and only a minority posses a humanoid form. While they do have a unique language I have not had the time to progress it further than using asterisk to represent it. That includes pronouns.


(This is where it get's a bit personal, sorry) I have friends who identify as non-binary and regrettably, I often misgender them. I didn't plan Stella to be non-binary but I wanted to experience what it was like to be non-binary as someone who wants to be a good ally to the LBGTQ+ community. When I created Stella, it just felt right for them to be non-binary.

Why am I addressing it besides for what was in the above:

I want to improve as a writer while staying true to Stella and representing them for who and what they are. Again: While "it" is easy to use Stella is not an "it". "It" is rude and degrading. But "them/their" isn't something we typically use or associate singularly in English so I do understand where everyone is coming from.

As Stella learns common, their speech becomes a mix Starfire form Teen Titians and a wise three year old. They refer to Ioder as a "Skyling" because Ioder belongs to the sky and Vincent a "groundling" because Vincent belongs to the ground. If you google translate "Starling" into Greek you get "ψαρόνι" or "Psaróni". Basically I do things with purpose when it comes to Stella.

Stella has yet received the opportunity to identify their gender to anyone and when the time comes I want to do it right. I value the fact that Stella isn't female or male and honestly look forward to when they can proudly state they are not "she"

What I have thought of doing:


I have thought about creating pronouns that might be used in Stella's native language but the issue with this is having to explain every thread what they are. Issue is Stella would probably just translate the pronouns back into them/their and inform everyone to use that

I have also consider using she but while I do misgender Stella often, it would be unfair and unjust to both Stella and my irl non-binary friends. I want to do Stella right and calling them "she" doesn't feel right to me morally.

Use some other non-binary pronouns! But the issue is that I have had trouble finding such pronouns and since the irl non-binary friends I have use "them/their" I feel it's only fair to honor them and their struggles of being misgendered but using those pronouns



Quick note:
Cards just reminded me that Homestuck trolls are also technically non-binary but also can identify as a particular gender. I think that like the Trolls, Stella does appear a certain way and perhaps over time with adopting Althanas' culture, could identify as female as I do write them leaning more towards a female personality then a neutral one and in the future I hope as Stella establishes themselves more, I can correct that.

So guys, friends, comrades, and folks, what do you recommend?
I want to be true to Stella and to myself but I understand that non-binary characters kinda don't exist in writing because "them" and "their" as pronouns are difficult to write with and are seen as plural in english. If you know of examples I would love to see some.

And if anyone on this site does identify as non-binary, gender queer, or LBGTQ+, I would highly value your impute even more.
As I have stated several times, I want to do this right, for Stella and everyone who identifies as non-binary.

Thank you and may the stars and cards align in your favor.

[Cards of Fate]

Here's my quick stance on the future of Stella and possibly her pronouns. You currently have he sitting on the precipice of being torn between the Stars and Althanas. This creates a very unique dynamic but you will eventually want to resolve this conflict.

If you write Stella adjusting to the earth and becoming a full earthling and abandoning the Psaroni for some reason (perhaps unwillingly? You've mentioned being grounded as a taint) it would be an interesting show of character development for Stella to chose a genders (Male or Female) and show her adopting this as she grows more attached to the earth.

Should you opt for the star path you could take things further with being nongendered and possibly Asexual as it doesn't seem like the Psaroni have any need to have sex or intimacy in general.

A middle ground is quite possible (but from a storytelling standpoint it feels like a cop out) In this case it would make sense perhaps for Stella to waver a bit? It makes sense for her to have no gender because the social situation she came from did not have a gender, but to be adopted into a social situation where such a thing is quite polarized (I imagine the Althanian social situation is not as progressive as our own) would cause her to at least experiment with things such as gender or Sexual orientation before settling into it.

All in all I look forward to some respectful back and forth on this and can't wait to see what others have to say!

[Philomel]

OHHHH! something I can help with :D

Firstly, Starstrike, I do actually have a non-gender specific (NGS) character and so does my boyfriend on this site. Mine is "Void" aka Yakob, and his is called "Grumble" - however we do actually write these as identifying as male. Also, in my theatre we advertise some NGS characters and by description we tend to use "they" for it.

However, in my research and after talking to a friend of mine who identifies as agender in both senses (as in sexually and by gender) I have found out you can use the following:

First and second pronouns remain the same (I have, you have)
Third goes as follows:
Ze (Zhe) has - he/she/it has
I called zir - I called him/her/it
Zir eyes water - her/her/its eyes water
That is zirs - that is his/hers/its
zirself - himself/herself/itself

There are also multiple options in this by the way. I have just placed here the common use one that is Americanised. There is also a Germanic one connected that goes, ze, zem, zes, zes, zirself in the same format as above. Other than that there are actually a fair few proposed ones. The humanist movement of the 18th century came up with one that uses "hu" as a base form and there are even ones with titles such as Spivak.

Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-specific_and_gender-neutral_pronouns) is a link to the wikipedia page. If you jump to "Summary" it will give you a table where the NGS terms are at the bottom.

Hope this helps.

[Star Strike]

Phi- Thanks Phi! I can't wait for some free time to really read it. Thank you so much!

Cards- Yup that will probably get worked in at some point but I don't know how or when with the timeline I have in my head but that will defiantly be explored in the future

ALSO:
I just remembered from a game I played called Magical Diary that they had some gender neutral pronouns. They explained stating that to respect everyone and every magical race they use the following gender neutral pronouns: E, Em, Eir, Eirs, Emself.

I just found out that the in game pronouns are actually call Spivak pronouns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spivak_pronoun) and am sad I couldn't find the list of pronouns on Non-binary.org (http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Pronouns) earlier

What do ya'll think about Spivak pronouns?

[Hysteria]

I just googled gender neutral nouns and got the same page as Phi. Words standing with Z seem a bit weird to me given how rarely it happens in English. 'Hir' seems like a good word. Ey, Er and Em also sound good.

My character just assumes a gender at the start of a thread, so it doesn't really worry me.

There are (mostly) two sexes, and then varieties of genders that fall under that. We generally call people male or female based on their gender rather than sex. As you brought up then, perhaps aligning as a particular gender would suit your character.

Just my 2c :D

[Philomel]

I am a fan of the Spivak, though I know there has been complaint after the singular "e" sounds a little too much like "he" in certain accents. Hence, "ey" has been suggested before.

Its quite follow-able though, as a neuter pronoun, so I would say yes to it. I just suggested the "ze" etc mainly because that was the first one I came across when my friend was having problems with gender identification.

Personally I quite like the humanist pronouns (hu, hum, hus, hus huself) but that is probably just because I have studied humanism in the past year and so got really interested in it.

[BlackAndBlueEyes]

If you were to switch to first-person, you would eliminate the need for self-referential pronouns and solve all of your problems.

You seem like you're still trying to find your writing voice with Stella. Give it a shot.

That way, you don't have to do all this extra work into creating or finding words that would be used to identify what Stella is. Please correct me if I'm wrong; but Stella is a being from a place where they would have no innate concept of what gender really is. If Stella's character develops in a way that assigning a gender would offend them, then you can have Stella pipe in with a quick "hey, um..." after they learn what gender is and implies. Personally, I think that would make for some great character moments, as it forces whoever you write with to figure out how they would react to that, since not everyone is going to operate by Tumblr's Code of Social Justice and Correctness.

[Luned]

I'm actually a fan of they/them/theirs –– singular usage has been around in casual English for ages as a non-gender specific pronoun. People use it all the time without thinking, only hardcore grammar fanatics really care (and they have the natural evolution of language working against them).

You're approaching this thoughtfully, so really, I'd just say try out what feels right and let things evolve with the character. Althanas is forgiving when it comes to inconsistencies like that, and my own enby friends have gone through various stages of figuring themselves out, too. Sounds like Stella just needs time to do just that. Don't sweat it too much.

[Philomel]

I do agree with babe and luned on this. I think you have potential here to really explore your character and discover what fits best. You could try using a variety of the pronouns from thread to thread, just dropping an OOC comment at the start to help the reader/judge maybe. Maybe you'll find that Stella herself/himself/humself tells you what she (etc) prefers. It's surprising how much characters end up writing themselves.

Damn Philomel.