Workshop: That's The Wrong Door

[Philomel]

Name of Completed Thread:That's The Wrong Door (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?23537-That-s-The-Wrong-Door)
Name of Authors: Sir Artemis and Good For Nothing Captain
Type of Thread: Quest
Thread Length: 25 Posts
Feedback Rewards: (Post Length of Thread/10) * ((EXP Needed to Level)*0.05) EXP
Date Closed: 17/01/2014 (17th January)

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4.) In order to receive EXP & GP for your feedback(see Workshop Guide), a critique must be helpful, elaborate, and considerate. It is suggested that the review be at least 3 paragraphs and focus on strengths, weaknesses, and overall content. You may use the Althanas Rubric as a guide.

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[SirArtemis]

I would like to request that the post count of the thread be increased for the sake of the reward for readers, as this thread is 25 posts but 36,000 words. I know it's a massive investment.

Also, as a request to any who do volunteer to read this, if you would be willing to give as many examples and full-rubric style critique as possible it would be immensely valuable. I hope you enjoy the read. PM me if you need anything.

[redford]

Any critique I make should be taken with a grain of salt. This is my first workshop review after all.

Story: 21

Storytelling: 8
In short, this is an excellently told story. The main plot is clear after post 6, and there are no real tangents or loose threads that leave the reader wondering. Also, never once did I think to myself, “why don’t the characters do X thing that is better than what they’re doing.” There weren’t any significant plot holes, and the surrounding characters are given a significant amount of life and roundness. I even found myself wondering at times what the story was with the warriors that sealed Diadeus, and the story with Victor and the girl at the end. High marks here.

Setting: 7
The settings used in this thread are numerous, and all of them are described well, using all of the necessary senses for each of them. While some are short-lived, they are also well described. Points lost mostly because there were a few times when the setting seemed to simply exist, rather than interact with your characters.

Pacing: 5
The pacing here is good, the scenes where the players find their respective artifacts is suitably drawn out in the action, and the various instrumental plot points have the appropriate attention paid to them. The reason you both didn’t score higher in this category is the introduction of the thread, posts 1-5. Those posts do serve to set up the setting, introduce characters, and set everything up, but it took me so long to find out what the actual point of this story was that I was in danger of losing interest. Some foreshadowing, or a small scene here or there would really help me understand what was going on.

Character: 23

Communication: 9
The communication between your characters and the NPCs in the story is excellent. I never really felt like the dialogue was incoherent or confusing, and I never felt like it wasn’t believable. The dialogue is exceptionally consistent with your characters, with Artemis being a no-nonsense kind of guy and Victor being a smart ass most of the time. NPC dialogue was also excellent, and I felt like each of them had a character separate from the main characters. Also, props to the consistency between the writers on dialogue, when Victor’s writer uses Artemis to say something, I always felt like that would be reasonable for Artemis to say that. Exceptional work in this area.

Action: 7
The action here was excellent in its prose, though perhaps not in its clarity. The descriptions used for the actions of your characters are realistic and fit with the character persona, which is something a little difficult to do when you know how the story ends and how to beat the bad guy. Bravo there. Points lost mostly because of the clarity in the action, sometimes I had to re-read a sentence or go back a paragraph to figure out where everyone is and what they’re doing. Specific examples include Artemis’ parkour-esque hunt for the belt, which felt at times jarring, as it felt like Artemis was going without any clear plan and that the writer was just making up things for him to leap on, which (to me) appears quite unlike Artemis’ usual cool, level-headed style. Another example is the fight between Victor and the suit of Adamantine armor. There were times when I was unsure which hand the red knight was holding his sword, or whether he was holding it at all. Also, I was quite unsure about where and how Adrian had acquired the rifle he used to shoot the knight. These concerns are minor, but they impact the story heavily, and if the reader doesn’t have a clear picture of what’s going on in his head, it can really detach him from the story at large.

Persona: 7
The persona of the two characters are excellent in this story. I am never really wondering what your characters are feeling, because your description of your characters’ thoughts is solid, and the actions they take represent what you show in their feelings. Points a little lost due to the statements Judicis makes in post 13, first urging Artemis to be calm, then spurring him onward, then back to urging him to take a moment to breathe. An explanation is offered for one of the statements, which helps, but it would be better to explain Judicis’ statements a little more, or make them more consistent. Victor had me a little confused as well in post 14 when he at first comes to the aid of Adrian, then the next moment turns tail on him and flees. There was also a point at which Victor claims that he knew that Adrian was looking to kill him the entire time during the thread, but I never felt that he knew. I knew Adrian was underhanded, but I never realized that Victor knew. Some inner monologue to clarify that would really help the reader understand the full story.

Prose: 16

Mechanics: 4
Mechanics issues in this thread exist, and although they are infrequent, they occur at places and tend to break the reader’s focus on the story. Examples include the italics code that doesn’t work in post 10, a misspelled (the horizon of the wall obscured what was passed it.) and missing word in post 12 (the two finally noticed a doorway in the, almost completely devoid of light.). There are places where the grammar is clunky as well, places where I had to re-read a sentence or paragraph to make clear what the writer appeared to intend. Low score here mostly because a cursory reading of the thread would reveal most of these issues.

Clarity: 5
The score here is mostly due to the sticky nature of some of the writing. This may be due to the astounding number of scenes and settings that your characters encounter during this thread. There were times when I was unsure which character was where, and times when I was asking myself “Are they in this hallway or the other one?” Most points off here due to the jarring nature of some of the post breaks, especially between posts 12 and 14 where Artemis has an entire plot related scene unfold in the middle of a battle that Victor is having. I was excited about the action happening in Victor’s post, and to be jarringly thrown from that to Artemis acquiring his belt interrupted flow.

Technique: 7
Good marks on technique because the metaphors, similes, and descriptions used here are good and solid. I never really thought that a simile was unnatural or didn’t describe the object or action in a meaningful and tangible way. There were a few times when I would have liked a little more description in a way that related to your characters, what I mean here is that some of the descriptions felt apt, but a little detached from your character’s feelings and emotions at the time.


Wildcard: 8
There’s a high wildcard here because I really like the setting and plot of this story, as well as its impact on the world outside where the quest is taking place. The guard’s surprise that the door is gone is an excellent example of this.



Overall: 68
Overall, this thread was excellent, and although it could be slimmed down a little, once I got into the meat of it and uncovered the story being told, I was rewarded with an excellent narrative with an interesting twist. Well done.

[Bard]

Before I begin making comments in regards to this thread, I wish to note that I will at times refer to both writers simultaneously, while at others refer to each writer singularly. I shall naturally clarify to which writer I’m referring to by use of the writer’s title, when such moments arise.

Story
Storytelling:
For starters I liked how you both gave different, but believable reasons for both of your characters to enter the citadel, which served as the launching point for this story.

You both had a clear plot in mind with this thread and each Act, or segment of the narrative followed each other relatively seamlessly, and at no point was I left guessing on why certain events were occurring. I might not have had all the information right away, but I was given enough information to basically understand why each element was occurring.

The only part where I felt like plot wasn’t truly maintained was with regards to the third artifact, “Jack’s knife.” The monk’s speech makes it sound as though all three artifacts are necessary to defeat the demon, but during the final fight I don’t hear it being mentioned save in the fight between Victor & Adrian. To me this seems like a part of the plot that falls flat just a little, but only a little.

Equally, I feel that there were some lose ends regarding Adrian, was he a pawn of the demon the whole time, or merely someone that the demon got control of near the end? Was he aware of the fact that he was no longer in the Citadel? If so, then his actions become all the more sinister, but if not, then they would be less so? These are just a few of the questions I had regarding him, as he seemed somewhat central to the plot, or at least only a little less than that of the monk. Furthermore, the fact that he’s not mentioned at the end of the narrative leaves questions regarding whether or not he made it out.

The other part that had me more than just a little confused was the pipe smoking man, Specter that appears when the pair is fighting the demon near the end. It seems that’s there some connection between this being and Victor, but what kind of connection, and really who and what he is, is a complete mystery. A bit of explanation at that moment, or perhaps some reference to him, even if very briefly, would have helped in understanding his presence later on much easier.

None of these issues were major by any means, and all-in-all, I feel that this was a well-developed narative.

Setting:

This is, for both of you, one of your strongest areas. From the first posts onward, one clearly got clear and rich descriptions of surroundings. The characters were affected by and reacted to the settings in vibrant & highly believable ways. Moreover, you both bring in little details that add those little finishing touches to a scenes description:

Good for nothing captain, your very first post was as lively as it was humerous, you appealed to every sense, save smell, and really helped bring the market that one would expect to find near the Citadel to life.

Unfortunately at times you engaged in a more summery form of describing surrounding’s, or what is often called “telling your audience.” Two examples of this are with the chamber where Victor fights the ‘knight’ and obtains his glove; and the fight with the demon possessed Adrian. You definitely didn’t do this all the time, but you had a tendency to do it during your fights, with the main exception being the last one against the demon.

Having said this, one of the best scenes of yours, besides the entrance, and the hallway where you and Artemis meet, is right after your character finishes talking with the knight. Your description of the gate that leads to where the demon was located balanced nicely the whole give your audience enough to set the tone, but still give them room for their own imagination.

Artemis, like Victor’s writer you gave plenty of attention to describing the layout of your surroundings, and like he, showed a solid grounding in the domain.

Pacing:
Both of you had a solid grasp of pacing, starting slowly at first, and leading up to the revelation of where your characters were and having them go after their respective artifacts. After this we have an increase in overall flow, for the character versus the environment, for Artemis, and the fight between Victor and the knight. This is in turn followed by a slower transition, which leads to another fast pace fight; leading to the conclusion.

Character
Persona, Action, & Communication:
As far as internal and external communication is concerned, you both did a fine job. The dialogue between characters was most believable, with a number of gems found here. Examples include SirArtemis’ response to the hunter after obtaining the belt; and Victor’s running dialogue in his fight with the ‘knight.’ The actions that characters engaged in made sense, and were appropriate for the events taking place.

Both of you however, could still improve in describing actions and thus, take your writing to the next level. The difference is in the details, the more little details you provide the more descriptive the scene, the more the reader can visualize the scene being described; without having to rely on his or her imagination. In the future, visualize yourself carrying out the same actions, as though you were an actor in a play, or watching the scene on film. Once you have that visualization in mind, write it out.

Prose

As far as clarity is concerned, for the most part, everything was clear, but there were a few hiccups, at least to me:

SirArtemis, one issue that I would like to point out, when going for the belt, you first describe elementals coming after your character and then later describe one of them as a golem. This confused me a little, were there elementals & golems present, or just elementals.

Good for nothing captain, it was a little difficult at points during your characters gaining the glove as to who was talking at points, Victor, or Adrian. This easy to do, as you often know who is talking when, but your audience doesn’t. Two good ways to deal with this is to regular give a descriptive feature after each comment, when writing multiple speakers at once, and if writing with a partner, it’s good to have them read over it. If they ask questions about anything, then it’s an indication that matters could be clearer. This is an area I’m still working on myself.

As far as technique is concerned, both of you used building tension that helped with pacing significantly. You both have clear transitions that help keep the narrative moving and assist in allowing for appropriate level of flow.

Artemis, I liked how you give the reader a clue relatively early on that something sinister is afoot, beyond the expected combat that is typical of anything that is supposed to be taking place in the Citadel.


"It's gone," the figure said in a chilling and deep voice. Everyone turned to face the new arrival, eyeing him as if he were another opponent, taking stock and measure of his features, his size, his equipment. "You are the last opponent, and so we are ready to begin. I will be your guide for the afternoon." The man raised his hands, the skin flawless and darker than dirt, and pulled back the hood. His hair was a rich crimson and appeared to burn with each strand standing on end, a barbed fire. His eyes burned an equally intimidating scarlet, though they appeared more feline than human, a slit for a pupil. He wore an expression of complete neutrality, suppressing all sign of emotion in an almost inhuman way.

Even if the audience noticed that this isn’t in the Citadel Forum, this point clearly indicates that this isn’t going to be a typical battle thread.

Good for nothing captain, I like that you regularly shifted back and forth between seriousness and humor, even dark humor at times, in dialogue, actions, and events. The combination of all of them served to highlight and amplify the concept of Victor as outwardly almost clownish, born from a strong dose of apathy, as a consequence of events; but that a strong goodly heroic internal element still exists. I like that you allude to the death of the girl in a ritual that was designed to draw out this said demon, which alludes to the girl’s appearance later on.

The utilization of several trials before eventual triumph, while a common feature of fantasy literature, was also utilized well by both of you, as well as the use of the wizard stereotype of “Jack”, who if the audience is paying attention disappears just at the right moment, for Adrian to have obtained the knife.

With regards to mechanics, I feel that this is the one area where the greatest room for improvement exists. There are a few times where you both have sentence fragments in your writing. This is most noticeable in dialogue, where an incomplete thought is vocalized, such as “seriously.” When it should be seriously,” followed by the rest of the thought, conveying why the remark is made, etc. Another example, is “not again.” When it should be “not again,” and the like.

Good for nothing captain, one thing I heard several times is your use of the Victor, when it should have just been victor.

In both cases, and this is definitely an issue with longer threads, the use of spell check, and periodic re-reading of passages would have allowed you both to catch most errors.

Wild Card

In closing, I enjoyed this narrative considerably, and the hook at the end, indicating that it’s possible that the demon wasn’t vanquished at the end was a nice touch, I look forward to listening to more from you both in the future.

[Vendredi]

Story

Storytelling:

Like Red said, the plot became clear in post 6, when you guys pretty much stated that this is a “find X artifacts and defeat demon” quest. Laying out the end-goal of the story so early has its own benefits and potential pitfalls:

The reader knows what to expect in terms of the overall shape of the story. Now you don’t have to explain everything. You can omit a few details, and the reader will supplement it themselves with their own expectations. You now have more room to… do other stuff. Like character exploration/development.
However, you’ll also have to work harder to hook the reader and maintain interest. This means tension, and I think tension is the one thing that I did not get a lot of in this story. Because the reader knows what to expect, you’ll probably want to subvert that expectation. Mine were not.
I think a bit more failure and more uncertainty can help strengthen the shape of this story. I want to feel like there is a very real possibility of failure, either due to external forces or the heroes’ own inadequacies. Our heroes passed various tests and won their artifacts – but what if they passed these tests and did not win their artifacts? Or what if they won them earlier, but lost them? What if they had to face their pasts or various internal demons to win the artifacts? What if?
It’s a good idea to always keep the reader guessing as to whether the heroes will succeed until they succeed, unless you’re writing the type of story where the ending is pre-destined, and then it’s all about how your heroes develop to get there.



Setting:

Reiterating what the guys above have said. You guys have a variety of settings, and for the most part, it’s done quite well. However, sometimes there’re no interactions with the settings, and it was just “describe and leave” – which is fine.
I wished, however, in post 3, the “hallway and door” description didn’t come from a monk’s conversation. I wanted to see it from Artemis’ perspective. I want to see it the way he saw it, and feel the way he felt about it. And then I wished you revisited this setting again when the heroes discovered that this “realm” was more than what they had originally expected. How did they feel about it then? Did their view of the doors change?
For key settings where you’ll be spending a lot of time, I think it’s a good idea to spend a little more time. Don’t be afraid to revisit a setting if your character has a change in perspective.



Pacing:


The story unfurled fairly well around the second half of the thread, where the transition between scenes and actions felt much smoother than the beginning.
The beginning is used for setup, but I felt like there was a little too much setup, and it took a little too long to get to the body. For example, Artemis’ conversation with his bow did not have to take place in a “realm”, or could have been shorter. For example, you could have cut out or sped up the pair’s investigation into the various rooms, and instead set the strangeness of this new realm and introduced Adrian at the same time.


Character:

Communication:
Good For Nothing Captain is a little stronger and more fluid when it comes to dialogue.
SirArtemis –Your dialogue at times contained too much information. Sometimes your NPCs felt like they were lecturing, as opposed to conversing. In turn, the reader may feel like they’re being lectured at.

In particular, I felt this during Artemis’ conversation with Judicis in that other realm, when the NPCs were explaining the artifacts’ abilities.
For the scene with Judicis, it could have worked better if you’ve worked in a clear warning from Judicis about “oppressive energies” much earlier in the thread. Also, if this is the first time Art sees Judicis in human form, his reaction seems a little too subdued. If it’s not, then you probably don’t need the “I wouldn’t do this often…” bit of dialogue.
For the explanations about the artifacts… conversation is a great way to drop information for both a character and a reader’s benefit, but sometimes action is a better way to do it. Perhaps you could have baked the artifacts’ abilities into the battle for the artifacts – have the hunter and the warrior actively participate in battle, and use those artifacts.



Action:
I echo what the two above said about the action scenes. They were good, but could have used more clarity.

Persona:

Strong grasp on persona for the main characters from both of you, and well conveyed. Artemis is strong and righteous, but can be little slow to grasp the situation. Captain is a drunkard and a knight in sour/cynical armor.
NPCs were clear and distinct, which was good. Some felt fairly underdeveloped, which was fine, since the focus was more on Vic and Artemis anyways.
I did wish there was a bit more of a character arc for both characters. A little more development. A little more emotional volatility. The drama in the story can be played up by stronger reactions, by higher highs and lower lows.
For example, instead of seeing random horrors behind each door, perhaps it could have been more interesting if the heroes saw personal horrors from their pasts. Then you could have foreshadowed Elizabeth’s part later on, and prompted a stronger reaction from Victor, and made his willingness to sacrifice himself a lot more heart-breaking.
Alternatively, you could have used those doors to reveal the NPC’s original quest to destroy Diadeus. That could have saved you some explanation-through-dialogue later on, and help develop the NPCs a little more.


Prose

Mechanics:
What Red said above. Also, see Technique section, since I can’t really differentiate between technique and mechanics.

Clarity:
Some sentences do not fit. For example, from Artemis’ post – “He shook his head at the man, as though he were eating his own feces.”
I’m not sure what’s going on here. Does the “as though he were eating his own feces” refer to Artemis or is the deranged warrior?

Technique:

Artemis – one thing I noticed about your writing is that your sentences tend to be of the same length. Sentence length is an interesting way to introduce and set rhythm and flow. Choppy sentences for fast-moving scenes. Longer sentences for smoother transitions. Put a longer sentence next to a shorter one can help emphasize the message conveyed by the shorter one. Feel free to play around with how your sentences are structured.
Both of you – I wished there was more foreshadowing. Some of your NPCs were introduced very suddenly (in particular, Elizabeth). I wished there were more clues and hints planted earlier in the thread.
More exposition through action. Less exposition through dialogue. It can be difficult to strike a balance. Most of your exposition, and a good portion of your plot drivers come from dialogue. Also, you don’t necessarily have to tell us everything. You can leave clues, and let the reader piece the picture together.

[Karuka]

Hi guys. Artemis requested that I read and review this thread, so here goes, with the caveat that I am not sure how much help this will be, as the thread was mostly written two years ago. I'm primarily focusing on aspects where you guys could improve, so please don't take all of my criticism as me hating this thread, because I didn't. It didn't engage me the way I'd like a thread to, but I'll talk about that during my critique.

Storytelling:

The story itself had a pretty basic but interesting premise. Two men get pulled into an extra-dimensional free-for-all set in a super confusing maze and have to work together, not get killed, find magical macguffins, kill the demon, oh, and save the world. No one will ever really know they saved the world, but that's okay, because they've also saved the people they wanted to save and walked away alive. The method in which you chose to tell the story, however, had numerous issues which made the thread less enjoyable than it could have been.

First off, neither character's motivations are clearly explained, and they lack context. All we get from Artemis is that he's in a tournament. We never get anything else about him. All we get from Victor at first is that he's been dumped in front of the Citadel and robbed by a person he knows. We never hear about this person again, so we've got absolutely no idea where he comes from. While we hear more about him toward the very back end of the thread, it really comes too late. Eliza, in particular, seems to come just to give Victor a berserk button. The reader has no idea why he or she is supposed to care about these characters, so it's difficult to get into the thread as an outsider.

You also had a tendency to give all the exposition as data dumps, telling the reader exactly what was going on via ghost NPCs in big chunks, instead of letting them and your characters find out hints gradually and thus have everything piece together at the end. The long monologues get tedious and tiring, and it's a pretty lazy way to take care of giving the info to your audience.

Finally, you left some loose ends. For one thing, I have no idea what a Raukorad is or why Victor is one, and am left wondering why Jak's knife was never used against Diadeus in the final battle, since that seemed to be the relics' only purpose.

Setting:

This was a very setting-dependent story, considering the bulk of it took place in an ever-shifting labyrinth of doors. Some of the imagery was very well done, and of the two of you, I would say Good for Nothing Captain is stronger with it. I particularly enjoyed Post 12, Paragraph 2. He was also more likely to put in detail - the sticky membrane room comes to mind.

That said, sometimes setting is shoe-horned in, or set and forgotten - you guys put it in and then forget to interact with it. Even in rooms where the setting is the entire point, like the where Artemis got his shadow belt, seem to suffer from this. The thread was also unsatisfying to senses other than sight and sound. How does the rum taste? What about the vomit? How does the breeze feel? How did the graveyard smell?

Pacing:

I don't believe that threads need to have consistent pacing throughout; just that the pacing needs to fit the story. Your pacing did have notable fluctuations in tempo - faster during combat, slower during exposition. On the whole, though, it dragged. I think with a little cleanup, you guys could have cut out some extra content and had a tightly-woven thread.

Action:

While I was reading this thread, I noticed that the action felt very video-gamey. There were a couple of side quests, there was some platforming, there was turn-based combat, there were power ups and heals... It really reminded me of video games. Even the big blocks of exposition felt like cut scenes. I'm not saying that his is good or bad, it's just what it felt like.

Sometimes the action did hurt pacing, because things happened in sequence and it kind of dragged a bit, instead of taking the scene more holistically and giving the scene better flow. Or sometimes the actions weren't described very well, and went off too quickly, like when Diadeus escaped the guys with no apparent effort, even though they'd been beating up on him.

Persona:

Persona had its high and its low points. Both men have very deep flaws, very easily exploited foibles, and are interesting guys. On the other hand, you both suffer from "tell, rather than show." For instance, one of the ghosts called Victor a virtuous soul, and all we'd seen from him up to that point was that he was selfish, flirtatious, apathetic, has some sort of odd luck thing going on, and we had hints that he had a tragic backstory. Everyone has a tragic backstory; this is not something that makes him a virtuous soul.

Now, I did see that there was more to Victor than apathy in little tiny hints. I would have liked to see him coming more and more out of his shell as the story progressed, instead of him just seeming to break into a new persona at the very end when he sees Eliza.

I didn't get very much from Artemis during the thread. He seemed to just be doing what he had to do as he had to do it, according to the situation. I didn't really see anything from him that would make him a definitive good guy, as you were trying to paint him.

All the other characters seemed extremely flat. I couldn't tell the difference between any of the ghosts, and other than being the obvious Big Bad, Diadeus didn't really seem all that special. I would have loved to see more from him, instead of just seeing a vampire-demon BWAHAHA! villain.

Communication:

Y'all had some nice body language and facial expressions. I could see Artemis squaring off against an opponent to say "not here, not now, not past me," and the way Victor picked at his ear was really good.

Your dialogue, however, was problematic. Not only was there too much of it (in the data dumps), but everyone sounded the same. I could never tell who was talking. If you give characters quirks of speech - accents, stammers, ways they use words - they become a lot more distinct.

I also had a problem with Victor's heroic monologue at the end. It seemed to come out of nowhere, because we hadn't seen anything like that out of his character up to that point. By Artemis's estimate, this was a 36,000 word thread; y'all had lots of literary real estate to flesh out your characters and make your points; this could have been built up for a while.

Mechanics:

I'm not going to go too deeply into mechanics, but there were definitely issues. You both struggle with comma placement (particularly with adding them where they don't belong), homophone misuse, and the occasional spelling error. These issues were only mildly to moderately distracting, occurred in every post, and could have been eliminated by having someone proof the thread.

Clarity:

I took some notes while I was reading so that I could give you good feedback, and I'm going to include those below. Overall, I didn't have too bad a time keeping up with what was happening, but with so much going on and so long a thread, it wasn't always easy. I think part of it had to do with something I'm going to talk about in technique, and I think if you fix that issue, your clarity will also greatly improve.


3: Down the path seemed a few bends and turns - this makes no sense

11: Beams jutted out from the walls, jammed into the dirt with platforms hanging off them with rope - some square, some round. - what has some square and some round? Beams? Platforms? Ropes?

22: A mausoleum stopped Arte's blade. What? Are we in a graveyard? If so, how did a mausoleum even stop his blade? Wouldn't he have seen it and avoided it? Mausoleums are buildings.

23: Who is Gale? What spear? Why is there suddenly a spear?

Reality marbles?

Technique:

I didn't notice much deliberate use of literary technique here, which is a shame, because you had a lot of opportunity and it would have really enhanced the thread. The only thing I did see was Victor being conflated with a monster in the big fight, but that was it.

Good for Nothing Captain, you have repeated use of the word "apathetic" to describe your character. If you used other personality adjectives for him, we'd get more sense of him. We'd also see why we should care about him; it's hard for a reader to care about a plot if they see one of the main characters not caring.

SirArtemis, you have a very strong tendency to use passive voice. That bogs the thread down and makes it harder to see what's going on. You also have a lot of prepositional phrases in your writing, and you use super long sentences. Those are both things I struggle with, but readers tend to get lost in the maze of prepositions and skip over too many sentences that just don't end. If you write more directly and call a spade a spade sometimes, you'll clean this right up.

Wildcard:

I caught the Oglaf reference.

___

So... there's my critique. I hope you guys didn't find it too harsh, because there's a lot of good stuff to work with in your writing, as well as a lot of stuff to work on.

[Breaker]

That's the Wrong Door Rubric

As a preface, I'm not going to score this because I haven't read the entire thread (yet) and also, I'm not a judge anymore! I am more than happy to adhere to the rubric though, so I've refamiliarised myself and hopefully I won't deviate too much. I wanted to post something now in case I don't have time to finish reading before the 18th, so remember my commentary is focused on the first ten posts.

Storytelling
Both characters were very well introduced and seemed genuine and fairly effortless in the first few posts. I might have appreciated a stronger insinuation or a bit more backstory about how Victor knew the woman who robbed him, but overall your introductions were strong. Artemis set the stage of a normal day at the Citadel, which was important for later on when the hook happens, and Victor played an excellent counterpoint by being out of place amongst the other warriors.

The only major problem I saw regarding storylne components was that the narrative hook came way too late (post six, I believe). A proper narrative hook can be the difference between reading a story and an interesting textbook. While there are certain exceptions, few people will pick up an 800-page textbook and read it in the span of a week or two just for fun. And yet avid readers of fiction do this all the time. The difference is the storyline, and if it doesn't reach out and hook you in the first chapter (or in our case, the first post) the reader has significantly less motivation to keep reading. I'm probably bleeding into pacing so I'll continue this there.

Setting

The scenes were generally well described, and most importantly both Artemis and Victor interacted with the world and the NPCs incredibly well. Even with the best descriptors and imagery, a setting doesn't fully become real to me until the main character(s) are immersed in it. I also liked that you shared the burden of setting to a certain extent - Artemis handled a lot of the overall descriptions while Victor added lots of color and pushed things outside their normal state of being - quite thematically appropriate, considering what happended next.

One opportunity that I feel was missed is the use of setting and imagery to foreshadow the fact that they'd stepped into the wrong part of the Citadel. While you did sort of ease into the fact, it was mostly done with dialogue and I would have liked it if the characters had 'felt' more upon entering the evil domain, even if it was just a strong shiver which they later recognize as a symptom.

Pacing

This may be the section where this story could have used the most work. The introductions were a little bit heavy handed, and it simply took too long to get to the point where the heroes teamed up and realized they were in serious trouble. Keeping this part a bit more brief would have served a number of purposes, most importantly keeping the reader's attention where you want it. For about the first three posts I thought that Victor and Artemis would fight each other and then becom friends afterwards - which, I imagine, was the intent. However while Artemis was fighting for his life and Victor was wandering around hungover, I began to wonder what was taking so long, with the result that I actually anticipated Victor's clumsy accident bringing the two together. If you had managed to condense the same amount of story into 3 posts instead of 6, it would have been a tight page turner. As it is, it sprawls a bit lazily until we realize our heroes are in mortal peril.

Communication

Both characters featured dialogue which suited their purpose and yet left something to be desired. On the one hand I liked Victor's inflection and use of language but wanted more from him. I also liked Artemis' creativity and use of different mannerisms for different characters, but felt overall his communication could have been tightened up a bit. For Artemis, consider the value of leaving some things left unsaid, giving the reader more to wonder about and imagine. For Victor, dial it up a notch and see what happens. Don't be afraid to experiment with your character's limits.

Action

Often my favorite category, for its relation to combat as well as its broad application. As I started writing my comments here I realized that overall they were very similar to my 'communication' commentary, so please consider that commentary attributable here as well.

In terms of combat the scene that stood out was Artemis' fight with the crazy blade-biter. While this was strong and clear overall, it lacked the intensity of a fight to the death (I realize that they thought they would be revived, but nonetheless having someone try to kill you will boil the blood). It may just be my preference, but it would have seemed more natural to me if there'd been more panting and basic noises/words than clever quips accompanying parries.

Persona

This was always the hardest section to write commentary here, and true to history I'm not sure what to say. I liked the characters, and they seemed believable. As I mentioned earlier, Victor seemed a little repressed, I thought his unique personality could have spoken up a little louder and more frequently. Artemis I think could benefit from dialing back the talking to his bow angle a bit. Not saying to lose or even change it, just limit interaction between them, and give it a reason. Not only would this give Artemis more room to grow, it'd create added suspense if he needs to talk to Judicis but can't for reason xyz.

Prose

I'm lumping the last three categories together because the mechanics were solid so far as I remember, I've covered clarity in previous categories, and you both have a firm ever-evolving grasp of literary technique. The one criticism I will offer here is that in the first 10 posts there wasn't a single literary device that really stuck in my mind, which is unfortunate, but not a real issue. Some people consider almost any use of imagery "purple", and I think you found a good balance, but I believe the purpose of imagery is to cause a lasting impression, and I can't say the first ten posts of this thread made a significant one. I did however enjoy the read and laugh out loud on several occasions at the antics of this unlikely duo. If the two of you write another thread together and tightened things up in some of the ways I suggested, I'd have no problem reading it through.

Thank you for inviting me to review your thread! Hopefully I provided something of value despite the rust. If you have any follow up questions feel free to PM me. Keep writing!

[SirArtemis]

I guess technically we've reached the deadline at this point so a super huge thank you to those who took the time to read as much as they could, if not all, and provide feedback! I agree with much of what you said and I can only apologize that it wasn't as refined as I'd have liked it to be. After many redrafts and edits, motivation sort of died out. Some of the issues with hook and mechanics would have been cleared, and we did forget the use of the knife (it was supposed to be shot using a bow at the demon to get the final blow). Thanks again and I hope the judges consider extra rewards for all involved!

[Rayleigh]

This thread is closed. Rewards will be posted shortly.

[Rayleigh]

Workshop: That's The Wrong Door (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?30378-Workshop-That-s-The-Wrong-Door)

Due to the length of this particular thread, all participants will receive double EXP.

redford (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?30378-Workshop-That-s-The-Wrong-Door) receives:
1500 EXP
50 GP
5 AP

Bard (http://www.althanas.com/world/member.php?18394-Bard) receives:
750 EXP
50 GP
4 AP

Vendredi (http://www.althanas.com/world/member.php?17657-Vendredi) receives:
1250 EXP
50 GP
5 AP

Karuka (http://www.althanas.com/world/member.php?2215-Karuka) receives:
3000 EXP
50 GP
5 AP

Breaker (http://www.althanas.com/world/member.php?97-Breaker) receives:
3750 EXP
50 GP
4 AP

Congratulations and thank you to all participants.

[Lye]

EXP & GP Added