***Spoilers*** Star Wars Episode VII

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

What. A. Film.

Classic Star Wars. We laughed, we cried, we watched Han Solo make the classic mistake of approaching the villian on a walkway without handrails. Foolish error.

We saw Luke on a mountain not saying anything to anyone.

Predictions for Episode VIII?

Rey to be Luke's daughter.
Kylo Ren to start to turn from the Dark Side.

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

Oh, and genuinely did not see Kylo-Ren being Solo's son.

Or Phasma to be useless.

[Karuka]

The characterization was flat, the plot devices were ham-fistedly done, and it was essentially a lesser remake of episode 4.

Awful movie, 2.5/10.

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

The characterization was flat, the plot devices were ham-fistedly done, and it was essentially a lesser remake of episode 4.

Awful movie, 2.5/10.

Did you like Mark Hamill's beard?

[Karuka]

Did you like Mark Hamill's beard?
I am ambivalent to Mark Hamill's beard. I liked Finn's face, Rey's accent, and the adorable little ball droid. That's it. Nothing else.

[Ashla]

It
was
A.M.A.Z.I.N.G!!!!!!!!!!

I loved Han and Leia as an old couple! It was beautiful! And how they showed a freaking stormtrooper turning against his First Order! They're human too! Oh, and Ahsoka still gets the cake as best Star Wars girl, but Ray rocks too!


Whenever someone is angry, I'll ask them if they're going to go Kylo Ren. xD

[Gnarl & Root]

I thought it was very good, it was as I expected the film to be.

Maybe it wasn't that original(re-hashing the death star and replicate battle scene was a shame I think) but it was fun and had some other nice ideas. It would fall short of being a fantastic film, but I get the feeling they wanted to do that to move the story forward for the next film, and get the base idea out of the way.

The main thing I would be upset about was how little it felt like it was based after the war. After watching Ray climb through the ships wreckage, I wanted a bit more of that.

Overall I can't complain too much, an important character died, which was upsetting, but I still enjoyed it and look forward to the next.

[Mordelain]

4/5 out of 10.

I left the film feeling ambivalent and immediately forgot the plot by the time I got home.

[Max Dirks]

My primary issues are as follows:

1) The fucking shields. Poe had to be tortured by the force to reveal BB2 to Kylo whereas Phasma basically just said fuck it with a blaster to her head. A hard nosed fuck it all Stormtrooper commander gives in at the sight of a Wookie. Ugh, even Brienne of Tarth and Commander Lyme are ashamed. Let's not even consider how ridiculously quick they found her given the base is supposed to be the size of a planet.

2) How Finn just finds Rey running around on the death planet. Need I remind you how the base is supposed to be the size of a planet.

Wouldn't it make much more sense if Finn found Rey randomly (because it'd be funny), and she force persuaded Phasma to put down the shields? Seriously, ugh.

3) How the fuck does Kylo Ren, who's presumably been trained by both Luke Skywalker and Snoke, and who apparently managed to kill hundreds of Padawan's ala Darth Vader get his ass royally handed to him by Rey who's basically a force virgin who didn't even have an Obi-wan Kenobi to make her swing a lightsaber around blinded?

Look I get they were trying to play him off as an amateur as well, which is kind of cool (two amateur jedi's going toe to toe and causing ridiculous amount of havoc because they are uncontrolled would be baller), but this makes no sense. What should have happened is that a pissed off Chewbacca flies the Falcon up and blasts a Kylo Ren who's about to kill Rey, leaving some baller scars for episodes VIII and IX.

4) The chick hero passing of the torch scene. Two characters who don't even know each other hug like old friends. I get that Leia is supposed to know about Han because of the force and Rey was sad (because they poorly set up Han as the father she never had), but the unspoken hug was stupid. Maybe this will make sense later, say if Rey ends up being Rey Skywalker.

5) The pacing of the final battle, the character Poe Dameron, and all that nonsense was stupid. I can't tell you how pissed I was that BB2 didn't decide to stick around with Rey. Now she's stuck w/ R2D2. I don't even want to get into how convenient it is that he woke up. Maybe this will make sense later too if Luke chose to be found at the end of the movie.

Minor fixes and I'd be wet. Now I'm just meh about my childhood favorite movie series.

[Max Dirks]

Prediction:

Rey is Luke's daughter, who was hidden from the Knights of Ren during the purge. Luke went into hiding not because he was ashamed of failing Ben Solo, but because he was unable to protect his wife, the mother of Rey (maybe they name her Mara Jade as a last fuck you to the now defunct expanded universe). Max von Sydew (really that should be his jedi name), is the man who took Rey to Jakku. Rey and Kylo kiss at some point because what is this series without unintentional incest (first cousins, ew). Snoke is Darth Plageous, or Darth Plageous' clone, who survived Palpatine's attempt to kill him and remained hidden (possibly as a child clone) on Kamino. Kylo saves Rey from Snoke ala Darth Vader. Finn becomes the new Han Solo. His backstory is never really explained, but he becomes the love interest of Rey and they make mocha Jedi babies.

[Morus]

Ray just informed me that the spoilers are still visible in the recent post sidebar. To prevent this, we can use the spoiler tag for VB.

THIS IS IMPORTANT STUFF[/spoiler} <--change to ]

[spoiler] THIS IS IMPORTANT STUFF

If we can edit our replies with that in it, it should be safe for other members.

[BlackAndBlueEyes]

Remember, the Dirks Grading Curve applies here too.

;)

[Cards of Fate]

The first 45 minutes felt like a ham fisted attempt at exposition and nostagia jerking. I wasnt feeling it until well into the story and the characters became beat freinds way too quick.

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

Yeah, but you are all dodging the real issue here.

What did you think of Mark Hamill's beard?

[BlackAndBlueEyes]

We should all strive to have beards like that.

[Rayleigh]

It looks like the spoilers still show up in the sidebar. Sad times.

Anyway, I liked the mechanic named Rey.

[Max Dirks]

Then click the arrows on the side of the sidebar to make it disappear.

[Rayleigh]

I'm not bothered by it anymore. I've seen the movie. Just worth noting that putting it in spoilers didn't accomplish anything.

[Mordelain]

If people who haven't seen the film come into a very obviously labelled spoiler thread they deserve to have their expectations put in check :eek:.

Next time, I'll watch it hammered.

Best sci-fi film in the last twelve months is...ermmm.

[BlackAndBlueEyes]

Best sci-fi film in the last twelve months is...ermmm.

I hear Ex Machina could take that title.

[Philomel]

A lot of people I was with were saying it felt like episode 4.

My personal thoughts is that, though they did play it safe with very predictable plot points, there was some shocks. The new cast actors were amazing, especially Rey. Kylo was a little too old fashioned angsty teenager (so basically a new Aniken) for my liking, and a little too much of an evil English accent. I loved him being Han and Leia's son, that made sense seeing as Leia is a Skywalker. Thought Luke just abandoning the world was maybe a little too crazy, and there was no real reason as to why a map to his location was hidden all over the world - but really that did make the film fun.

I loved Rey's power - that she is such an awesome Jedi that she needs little to no training to do a bad-ass lightysabre fight. I reckon she will be connected to the Skywalkers in a way, possibly Luke's daughter though it might not be. It might just be that, like Aniken, her powers just manifest with - you know. Midiklorians. What I liked was that the plot was a bit more believable. The death-planet wasn't actually that easy to blow up. They had to do several things to actually make the whatsit go unstable. The bit with the bridge (though a bridge with no bannisters never makes sense) was pretty predictable, especially as soon as I saw Han walking onto it I felt "Ah, he going to DIE," but it really echoed the idea of Vader and Luke to such an extent that I think it worked really well.

Some folk I know thought the ending should have happened sooner. I have heard it being called rushed, and in a sense it was, but the pacing was okay with lots of Rey walking. What happened, though, when I was in the cinema was actually I felt myself thinking, "I hope they have Rey going to see Luke," purely for a sense of finality, and I was not disappointed. Maybe they should have just ended it when the map was put together and it was like ... Jedi found, YEY! However, I think for the film it needed that little extra ending. After all the years we have been waiting for a new film, and the way that usually there can be 3 to 20 years between the chronology between each film's time setting, I think it was done alright.

Yup. That is my thoughts.

I loved Rey as a character. Just saying that. Finn was cool, but a little flat. And I LOVE BB-8. Possibly the cutest, most adorable droid ever.

[BlackAndBlueEyes]

The only thing that irked me with this movie was it seemed like there were too many times where the script would call for a convenient "It's okay, we already have that information. Let's go do the thing!"

Okay--two things. Well, one and a half, really; Poe going "Yeah, I ejected, woke up in the middle of the desert, lol here I am back in action it's okay I got better lol" was absolutely terrible.

[Tobias Stalt]

Kylo Ren is amazing in that he has more potential than any Dark sider in the movies thus far. He is in the beginning stages as a character and has been equipped to fall further and further from the light. He may not have been a Sith in Episode VII, but I get the strong feeling that we will see him as a figure that dwarfs Darth Vader in the coming years. His realistic lack of control as a man in tune with the volatile and emotionally seeped Dark side of the force, coupled with his very real conflict over doing the right thing or doing the thing which he's been trained to do over many years cement him as the most complex character in not only the movie, but easily the franchise as well. The moment at the end where he asks Han if he will help him, and the events that follow are the tip of a gorgeous iceberg.

The character of Rey, however, disappointed me. Her Force use was Deus Ex Machina at best, forced in to both sell her as a character and perpetuate the whole "Jedi are awesome" nonsense that the series thrived on with Luke. The random use of Mind Trick, and at the end with Force Valor- those things don't just happen because you will them to. Especially with Mind Trick. An untrained Force Adept would not be able to influence a highly conditioned First Order Stormtrooper. His first reaction to her suggestion was where they should have left it, because it was not sensible.

And beating Kylo Ren in a lightsaber fight just... that should not have happened.

Also, Poe fucking Dameron.

[orphans]

This is old, but... https://www.reddit.com/comments/3qvj6w

I giggled at the possibility.

[Izvilvin]

Liked it. Haven't seen many complaints that I personally feel have merit. Had a great time!

Also Kylo lost because he'd been shot and had just killed his papa - it was previously established that he couldn't control his emotions and it interfered with his potential. The movie does a good job of showing you how capable he is when he's in control and calm, and how he fails when he can't maintain his feelings. Made perfect sense to me. Even his body language after that moment shows how he's mentally zoned out.

It was also already established that Rey knew how to fight with a staff... is it a stretch that she could fight off someone in a strict lightsaber fight? Kylo never even comes across as a talented saber fighter. We have nothing telling us he's a great fighter beyond his own kewl mystique and his abilities with the force. If anything she should be kicking his ass, no?

People sure complain a lot :p

[Philomel]

Also that nice convenient rift appeared between them when Rey was defeating Kylo. I like how Kylo's real name is Ben too, like Obi Won is known as Ben ...

Interesting facts: Daniel Craig played the part of the Storm Trooper who Rey made drop his gun and release her.
Gwendoline Christie played the part of Phasma.

[Tobias Stalt]

It was also already established that Rey knew how to fight with a staff... is it a stretch that she could fight off someone in a strict lightsaber fight? Kylo never even comes across as a talented saber fighter. We have nothing telling us he's a great fighter beyond his own kewl mystique and his abilities with the force. If anything she*should*be kicking his ass, no?

The problem with that logic is that lightsabers follow a set of combat rules and physics. Because of the nature of the weapon, they require an acute level of spatial awareness that comes from training. In the (old canon), it was established that to properly handle a lightsaber, you either needed to be Force sensitive, or Mandalorian (because they trained for so long and to such a degree, they had a "sixth sense" in combat.)

^The above is also why I think Finn is Force sensitive.

However, even just having the Force doesn't make you a saber jockey. Prime example, A New Hope, the training droid hits Luke a plethora of times. His senses are not attuned to the Force. He can't react at the speed a trained Jedi does. Kylo has that training. He should have torn Rey AND Finn apart without much effort.

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

Personally thought Mark Hamil's beard was superb.

5/7.

[Ashla]

Aside him being injured and emotional, I have another theory on why Kylo lost against newbie Ray.

Obviously, Kylo is phenomenal in the force. He stopped a freaking bullet like nothing (something only the likes of freaking Yoda and Dooku would be able to do, in my book) and he is even better at telekinesis than Count Dooku was (and he was top class with that.) However, with that much potential in the force, he may have had very little lightsaber training, as he completely focused on force abilities.

Its like Anakin. He was extremely powerful in the force, but he never trained to use it to the extent those like Yoda could. However, Anakin was an amazing lightsaber duelist able to keep up with Dooku and Ventress (Ventress took on Mace Windu and survived so she was that skilled.) Kylo was simply (way) better in one area than the other.

With little skills in lightsaber combat, and with how powerful Ray is in the force (she only started winning when she focused on the force and went battle meditation crazy) I think it's no wonder Kylo lost.

Also remember, before Ray started using the force, she was running away from Kylo who seemed to be beating her up pretty good.

[Tobias Stalt]

Force Valor doesn't just happen, though. It's totally Deus Ex.

Valor is the power Yoda used to move his body at the insane degree he could well into his 800s/900s. It takes a staggering amount of control to use, and I hardly think Rey would just have snap crackle and popped it off.

[Karuka]

Was I the only one who thought Kylo Ren was a whiny little bitch like his grandfather, as portrayed by Hayden Christensen?

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

Was I the only one who thought Kylo Ren was a whiny little bitch like his grandfather, as portrayed by Hayden Christensen?

I thought this too. Should have left the mask on IMO.

[Ashla]

Force Valor doesn't just happen, though. It's totally Deus Ex.

Valor is the power Yoda used to move his body at the insane degree he could well into his 800s/900s. It takes a staggering amount of control to use, and I hardly think Rey would just have snap crackle and popped it off.

Valor?? It's always been called "battle meditation" from what I've heard, and I'm actually good with force powers. Where did you learn that?

The fact that Ray has had zero training whatsoever does make it seem like she would be unable to do those great powers. Ezra (from Rebels) was very skilled in the force, and his greatest early burst of power was a common force push. Maybe Ray is more skilled? But either way, I do think her abilities were somehow improved from augmenting the force somehow.

Either way, I do think that Kylo's focusing on force abilities instead of lightsaber combat while training could (should? if my theory is true) have made a massive difference alongside being injured and all teenage angsty.

[Max Dirks]

Valor?? It's always been called "battle meditation" from what I've heard, and I'm actually good with force powers. Where did you learn that?Nah, they are different apparently. I have to admit it sounds like the same, though. Let's ask George Lucas.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_valor
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_meditation

[Tobias Stalt]

Valor is passive and augments the user as well as nearby allies.

Battle Meditation requires full concentration and forces the user to be prone, sacrificing their own combat utility for a massive boost in morale, physical prowess and mental acuity to allies within the scope of the user's power. Essentially, it's way more powerful, but you as the user are just a conduit for the Force. (This is the power that made Bastila Shan so important in the fight against Revan, and the reason the Old Republic was actually able to apprehend him.)

Also, experienced users of Battle Meditation were also able to weaken and demoralize nearby foes as well.

[Max Dirks]

Nerd fite!

[Sulla]

(This is the power that made Bastila Shan so important in the fight against Revan, and the reason the Old Republic was actually able to apprehend him.)

Yeah, that or the fact that Malak fired on the bridge of Raven's ship during a battle he totes would have won. You know, whichever.

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

To be fair, Kylo Ren was instructed by Luke. Have you seen how Luke duels? Hardly finesse, mostly crude.

Anakin was a far better duelist.

That said, we don't know what powers Mark Hamill's beard has bestowed upon him in his exile.

Also, for the avoidance of doubt, Revan would have fucked Bastila's shit up early doors if it wasn't for the great metal chin getting involved. This was a bloke who made the Mandalorians shit themselves. Revan wins that battle every day.

[Ashla]

My Star Wars nerd side is happy. Thank you! :D


And what Shin said about Luke training Kylo. It further proves my theory on Kylo focusing a lot more on the force than his lightsaber.


EDIT: No, she did use valor. Got mixed up!

[Tobias Stalt]

Yeah, that or the fact that Malak fired on the bridge of Raven's ship during a battle he totes would have won. You know, whichever.

It was a backhanded betrayal by an apprentice who otherwise never would have won- prime reason why Malak was a garbage Sith to begin with. Don't betray your master if you have to be an opportunist to overcome him. Sidious is the next huge example of this with Plagueis.

But that's a huge digression. Without Shan's meditation, Revan would have dominated the Republic forces without much of an issue. He had connections with the Mandalorians and commanded a far stronger force than anything that the opposition could muster. Additionally, the Jedi of the day were not as militant as they were by the time of Palpatine, or even the Army of Light when Bane became Dark Lord of the Sith.

[Christoph]

Force Valor doesn't just happen, though. It's totally Deus Ex.

Valor is the power Yoda used to move his body at the insane degree he could well into his 800s/900s. It takes a staggering amount of control to use, and I hardly think Rey would just have snap crackle and popped it off.

It's not like she was doing crazy flips or anything. And it's hardly a Deus Ex Machina when they established throughout the movie leading up to it that Rey could instinctively use force techniques. Finally, Disney can make whatever they want canon, so your wikis cannot save you this time! :D

As for the movie as a whole, I loved it. It was fun, and not even in the "turn your brain off" kind of way. More in the "don't be allergic to fun" kind of way. It was flawed, to be sure, but so was the original trilogy. The plot was pretty straightforward, but the plot wasn't the point. The lore and setting and characters were the point.

I enjoyed all of the characters. Kylo Ren had depth beyond "rargh I'm evil". I love that he desperately wanted to be "rargh evil", but had to struggle. With the mask off, he was creepy in a school shooter sort of way, contrasting Prequel Anakin's "m'lady" style of creepy. I cannot fathom why anyone would call the characters flat. It's not Schindler's List, of course, but given the number of characters and the time each of them was on screen, I though they all had depth, portrayed through actions and dialogue.

One could argue that the meetings between the main characters were unlikely, but truly interesting, exciting stories occur exactly because unlikely events. Think of things that we find interesting in the real world; most are unexpected, unlikely. You find series of events difficult to accept? You don't believe it? Take it from Yoda, then. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EwcYwax4Oo)

[Odium]

Thoughts:

Kylo Ren was definitely the best character in the film and a pretty decent antagonist overall. However, as a huge Star Wars fan (jesus god knows how long I've been roleplaying that stuff, be it tabletop or via forum), I was overall disappointed with the film. The conflict felt like they just wanted to throw a bigger, badder Death Star at us, without even the buildup to make it feel dramatic (also it was basically destroyed in the exact same way). The storytelling around Poe's not-really-death was horrifically lazy, but Finn definitely was the worst character in my opinion. His characterization was abysmal. He went from a Stormtrooper questioning the morality of the First Order to a part of the Resistance cracking jokes as he shot down his former comrades and engaging in a typical Hollywood-level relationship tease with Rey.

Personally, I didn't like that JJ Abrams did nothing with the universe that was already set up for him. Nobody expected him to actually take the EU into account, but the degree to which he flagrantly brushed off a universe that's been established over the course of three decades was nonplussing IMO. I was paying attention to the backgrounds and recognized exactly 2 species from the rest of the series: a Mon Calamari and a Sullustan that somehow managed to sneak in there. He pretty much threw a bunch of aliens as background pieces without taking any actual opportunity to make use of them as characters, with the exception of Maz (prequel garbage class) and Snoke (no opinion thus far). I feel like this is the influence of Abrams' prior experience with sci-fi universes, Firefly and Star Trek, which are both a lot more inclined towards this kind of interaction with the setting. Continuity is king in these series, something that Hollywood doesn't seem to understand in its efforts to milk a little more cash from the cow, and continuity didn't really have a place anywhere in TFA except as a nostalgic nod to the characters from the OT.

Rey and Kylo have the potential to be interesting as they're explored in the rest of the trilogy, but TFA did a shitty job of making me interested in their backstory or their drive. They pretty much went unmentioned, a little less in the case of Kylo but especially for Rey, whose past was pretty much ignored to set her up as a Skywalker and Kylo's cousin. Also, the Republic pretty much existed to get nuked by the third Death Star... supposedly the books that they always publish expand a lot on the in-universe historical backdrop behind the movie, but what use is that if it never makes it into the finished product?

The movie was just too derivative overall. Even the opening crawl echoed A New Hope, and while some interpreted this as an homage to the original trilogy, it didn't really come across that way for me. I mean, Rey is literally Anakin: a (quasi)slave on a desert planet with a knack for piloting. It's obvious they're setting up all the familiar themes, making it so Rey embodies the light side of her family's qualities and Kylo is more channeling Vader and Anakin's dark side at the moment, but... it was all too lazy.

Of course, I'm waxing negative here. Overall I'd give the movie a 5. It was better than I expected going into the theater, because it didn't kill my enthusiasm for Star Wars, but I'm not looking forward to the generation of fans that are introduced to it through this trilogy either.

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

Thoughts:

Kylo Ren was definitely the best character in the film and a pretty decent antagonist overall. However, as a huge Star Wars fan (jesus god knows how long I've been roleplaying that stuff, be it tabletop or via forum), I was overall disappointed with the film. The conflict felt like they just wanted to throw a bigger, badder Death Star at us, without even the buildup to make it feel dramatic (also it was basically destroyed in the exact same way). The storytelling around Poe's not-really-death was horrifically lazy, but Finn definitely was the worst character in my opinion. His characterization was abysmal. He went from a Stormtrooper questioning the morality of the First Order to a part of the Resistance cracking jokes as he shot down his former comrades and engaging in a typical Hollywood-level relationship tease with Rey.

Personally, I didn't like that JJ Abrams did nothing with the universe that was already set up for him. Nobody expected him to actually take the EU into account, but the degree to which he flagrantly brushed off a universe that's been established over the course of three decades was nonplussing IMO. I was paying attention to the backgrounds and recognized exactly 2 species from the rest of the series: a Mon Calamari and a Sullustan that somehow managed to sneak in there. He pretty much threw a bunch of aliens as background pieces without taking any actual opportunity to make use of them as characters, with the exception of Maz (prequel garbage class) and Snoke (no opinion thus far). I feel like this is the influence of Abrams' prior experience with sci-fi universes, Firefly and Star Trek, which are both a lot more inclined towards this kind of interaction with the setting. Continuity is king in these series, something that Hollywood doesn't seem to understand in its efforts to milk a little more cash from the cow, and continuity didn't really have a place anywhere in TFA except as a nostalgic nod to the characters from the OT.

Rey and Kylo have the potential to be interesting as they're explored in the rest of the trilogy, but TFA did a shitty job of making me interested in their backstory or their drive. They pretty much went unmentioned, a little less in the case of Kylo but especially for Rey, whose past was pretty much ignored to set her up as a Skywalker and Kylo's cousin. Also, the Republic pretty much existed to get nuked by the third Death Star... supposedly the books that they always publish expand a lot on the in-universe historical backdrop behind the movie, but what use is that if it never makes it into the finished product?

The movie was just too derivative overall. Even the opening crawl echoed A New Hope, and while some interpreted this as an homage to the original trilogy, it didn't really come across that way for me. I mean, Rey is literally Anakin: a (quasi)slave on a desert planet with a knack for piloting. It's obvious they're setting up all the familiar themes, making it so Rey embodies the light side of her family's qualities and Kylo is more channeling Vader and Anakin's dark side at the moment, but... it was all too lazy.

Of course, I'm waxing negative here. Overall I'd give the movie a 5.5 or a 6. It was better than I expected going into the theater, because it didn't kill my enthusiasm for Star Wars, but I'm not looking forward to the generation of fans that are introduced to it through this trilogy either.

Please don't ever mention Firefly and Star Wars in the same breath again.

[Odium]

That's going to be hard considering the person with the reins on this trilogy. And the inevitable influence it's had on him. :' (

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

That's going to be hard considering the person with the reins on this trilogy. And the inevitable influence it's had on him. :' (

We can counteract that with the power of Mark Hamill's beard.

[Sulla]

Why was Firefly mentioned at all? I don't think JJ Abrams had anything to do with that.

[Christoph]

I could not care less about the Expanded Universe. Most of it was god-awful, so I'm glad they cleared it all away and started over. I feel that any complaints about the movie having anything to do with the Expanded Universe are without merit.

Also, Episode 7 was a much more enjoyable movie than Serenity, and comparably good, though much, much different, than the Firefly series.

[Odium]

Lol! Sorry, in my head it seems like Joss Whedon and JJ Abrams had become a single person. Disregard that comment entirely.

I have no problem with most of the EU getting tossed. God knows the Fandalorians, Jacen Solo, and the Yuuzhan Vong are nothing I'm going to lose sleep over. However, the movie didn't feel like a continuation of the Star Wars setting to me. It felt like a bad remake of A New Hope.

Nonetheless, like I said, it was a head above any of the prequel garbage... at least they actually got the themes and the aesthetic right this time around.

[Tobias Stalt]

Woah. We have so many fucking separatists on this site.

Get fucked, seppos.

Edit: Also, is it just me, or did the First Order blow up FUCKING CORUSCANT?

[Mordelain]

They did. It was ignored in the film.

I am annoyed.

[Tobias Stalt]

Wow. That's a huge detail to brush off.

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

Woah. We have so many fucking separatists on this site.

Get fucked, seppos.

Edit: Also, is it just me, or did the First Order blow up FUCKING CORUSCANT?

At the time, this never occured to me for some reason. Was it definitely Coruscant?

Edit: Nope. It was the Hosnian system, the capital of the New Republic.

[Tobias Stalt]

Wait fuck what is that even.

[Dissinger]

Even in the expanded universe Coruscant wasn't gained till late in the war between the Empire and New Republic. It would make sense that the First Order bunkered down on Coruscant because all lanes lead there eventually.

[Storm Veritas]

I just saw it and my initial reaction is that it was fun, well made, and had awesome protagonists. Plot was derivative, but there was a MASSIVELY effort to prove this out as being 4/5/6 inspired and far removed from the CGI fest of 1/2/3.

I am glad there are some KoTOR fans here, too.

i read a theory that indicates that essentially the KoTOR plot could be the foundation of events here. Rey is actually Revan, fresh from destroying the Jedi Academy and having her mind wiped. This is why she longs to wait on Jakku, but doesn't know why or whom for. It is also why she is so powerful, and why Luke has an OHSHIT moment when he sees her.

At the end of Ep7, there is a pretty even balance of power. She can tilt the scales either way, and will.

[Tobias Stalt]

But... Revan predated the Battle of Yavin by over 4500 years.

[Storm Veritas]

Argh.

The point isn't that she's REALLY Revan, just that she has a storyline that very closely matches the one we learn about in KoTOR (if you played a "light" character). The main character that we meet, who has powers that are hard to explain, and no backstory to speak of, seems good. Although the character may be extremely light / noble / good, they are unaware of their own history, where they were extremely evil.

Rey could be the fallen Jedi that Han Solo mentions when he tells them about how Luke went off on his own and formed a new Academy. We always presume that the fallen Jedi is Ren, but if it were Rey it would explain how she handled him so clearly.

Like I said - it's just a theory. I hope it's true, but most of these end up being wrong.

[Sulla]

If we're going to nerd theory out like we're in between A Song of Ice and Fire books, I'll stoke the fires.

Take a look (https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12360362_1662306927343128_2808542295582083140_n.jp g?oh=c34d97a39f01a5520bd51c4b44b6f19b&oe=571DF6E5) at the name of that great scourge (under Kylo's Lightsaber). The only references I know to Malachor both occur in KotOR, as Revan's battlefield against the Mandalorians and the site of the wound in the force for the Jedi Exile. With everything non-movie related being thrown to the wind, I hope this hints at some resurgence for that storyline.

[Tobias Stalt]

Mass Shadow Generator say what

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

If we're going to nerd theory out like we're in between A Song of Ice and Fire books, I'll stoke the fires.

Take a look (https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12360362_1662306927343128_2808542295582083140_n.jp g?oh=c34d97a39f01a5520bd51c4b44b6f19b&oe=571DF6E5) at the name of that great scourge (under Kylo's Lightsaber). The only references I know to Malachor both occur in KotOR, as Revan's battlefield against the Mandalorians and the site of the wound in the force for the Jedi Exile. With everything non-movie related being thrown to the wind, I hope this hints at some resurgence for that storyline.

There's enough in Episode VII to make you think they took a lot of inspiration of KOTOR in the first place. Firstly, the Mandalorian symbol on top of a banner in Maz's palace. Secondly, the idea of the Star Map. Thirdly, Kylo's mask. Fourthly, as you say, references to Malachor which seemed to be only canon in KOTOR.

I'm giddy as fuck about it all, actually. I'm a massive fan of KOTOR and would love to see them do something with it. However, this is also one of my few criticisms levelled at Disney over Star Wars. They say they've come up with something original, yet we are finding that more and more pieces seem to have been surgically implanted from another huge Star Wars franchise to power it along. Maybe completely unrecognisable to those less geeky about it than us, but nonetheless noticable.

Lastly, did anyone see the rumours naming Snoke as Darth Plagueis? There is a compelling case for it on youtube and it's to do with the score of music associated with him on the Episode VII soundtrack, which also happens to be the same track on the Episode III OST that references "the tragedy of Darth Plagueis".

Food for thought.

[Lye]

Whelp, so I saw it. And I was not impressed.

Remake of 4 someone said? Pretty much. Second Death Star. Angsty roid-raged darth vader wanna be? Check. Teenage Force user, check. Unlikely (and somewhat forced this time around) romance, check. (Get it? Forced? *shoots self*) Also, anyone notice that it took Luke some months of training to harness the force and this chick starts mastering it within minutes? And since when could the Force stop energy bolts in mid air? Let's not mention if he could pull all that off, why couldn't he push her off the cliff instead of looking at her like a tool while she did some Hollywood hero come back music? And why were all the heroes and villain's young adults? Can we also discuss that after this many years, they're still using the same fighters and same super weapons? The only thing new was Kylo Ren's goofy claymore-saber. Which looks completely unwieldy. Plus, the Empire was demolished, but they effectively reconstructed it under some new name with the same amount, if not more, power than the last organization? And the Electric Tonfa... Why was one trooper putzing around the battlefield with that relic? Specifically so the male romance interest could whip around a lightsaber? I also thought it took some manner of Force awareness to effectively use a saber?

I'm no Star Wars buff, but the whole movie was targeted at young adults and teens with far too many attempts to rekindle an older nostalgic fan base and splash in comedy. Disney wanted money, but they certainly could have done better with their newly acquired product. Lucas Arts must be ashamed.

If I had to say something to someone wanting to see the movie, I'd say to go see it if you're a Star Wars fan and have the need to. If you're not a Star Wars fan, pass on it and wait for rentals.

[Tristilde]

In Fin's defence, he was using it two handed more like a maul than a sword.

[black shadow]

At first I thought the fight at the end was kinda dumb because of the fact that a trained sith was pretty easily beat by someone who has no skill with the force/lightsaber but then I thought of how he was shot by Chewwy's bowcaster and that thing sends normal stormtroopers flying so he should have died by it. So really he was beat when he should've been dead, imagine when he's full strength?

[BlackAndBlueEyes]

https://scontent.fdtw1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/64467_999194226792954_128021383806917853_n.jpg?oh= 4d659af53770df1d91d3dc239b4c1b3e&oe=5745B020

Half of the arguments in this thread can be summed up thusly.

[Sulla]

Is prequel Obi Wan Kenobi that beloved of a character?

[Alydia Ettermire]

Ewan's hot, Cory.

[Storm Veritas]

Obi Wan is the gold standard for Jedi. Anyone who says otherwise sucks.

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

Yoda is the gold standard for Jedi. Anyone who says otherwise sucks.

Edited for accuracy.

[Tobias Stalt]

Above should read

"Mace Windu"

[Storm Veritas]

Yoda is a curmudgeon. He's like the grumpy landlord of the Force.

[EveningStar]

Qui Gon gin comes in as a close second, only good thing in Episode I.

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

Yoda is a curmudgeon. He's like the grumpy landlord of the Force.

Meanwhile, the Ewan Mcgregor version of Obi Wan is outacted by his own Lego character. Yoda is the boss.

[Lye]

Someone had a good point. In the prequel episodes, Yoda is still some 800 years old or so, but in the original trilogy, he's not that much older. Somehow, he goes from saber wielding tazmanian devil hurricane to crotchety old puppet. Apparently those last few years of his 900 year life span are the worst, but he can still zip through the air at 800. Which is impressive.

I'm certain these facts are off on the exact age and number of years from the prequels to the originals, but whoever found this out had a good point.

[BlackAndBlueEyes]

I would reckon that seeing a whole bunch of your closest friends get slaughtered in cold blood while the most promising recruit in ages becomes the most feared thing in the galaxy and then moving to a swamp for the next thirty years will take the fight out of you pretty quickly.

[Lye]

You know, you may have a point there. He tends to go almost into cardiac arrest when someone tied to the force kicks it. Maybe after that massive purge of the Jedi, he went from hero to zero and his body took the brunt of the damage. Perhaps his vitality and youth was tied to all the others who harnessed the light side, like a hive mind?

[Morus]

You know, you may have a point there. He tends to go almost into cardiac arrest when someone tied to the force kicks it. Maybe after that massive purge of the Jedi, he went from hero to zero and his body took the brunt of the damage. Perhaps his vitality and youth was tied to all the others who harnessed the light side, like a hive mind?

Yeah, that's a working theory. Or maybe George Lucas just threw out all the characterizations he built for Yoda in Empire Strikes Back (like "wars not make one great," and "size matters not") so that he could have a small green dwarf use a bite-sized lightsaber to fight Dracula.

Gotta' think of the toys, and the eventual Soul Calibur 4 tie-in.

[Lye]

I'm sure Disney will cover all that marketing in no time. Wait til Episode VIII where we meet Yoda's son and he hooks up with one of those squid haired girls. Knowing Disney, they'll make younger versions of Yoda's race as tall and strikingly handsome and they only get short and hairy when they're in the twilight years.

I hate when people sacrifice story for popularity or marketing appeal.

[Max Dirks]

Andy, your meme's logic is flawed because Darth Maul was not a force virgin.