Workshop: Call it what you will

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

Name of Completed Thread: Call it what you will (http://www.althanas.com/world/showthread.php?31506-Call-it-what-you-will-(Closed-to-BaBE))
Name of Author: Cards of Fate & BlackandBlues
Type of Thread: Quest
Thread Length: 15 posts
Feedback Rewards: (Post Length of Thread/10) * ((EXP Needed to Level)*0.05) EXP
Date Closed: 19th January 2017

Critique Guidelines:

1.) Standard rules for etiquette apply. No spamming or off-topic posts, no personal attacks or trolling. Focus on critiquing the thread, not the writer. Use constructive criticism and try to speak in terms of "strengths" and "weaknesses". For example: "Your story was strong, but the action seemed a little weak. Try using more adverbs to describe actions or use a thesaurus to spice up your word choice."

2.) Likewise, those who have asked for a workshop should take criticism gracefully. Use it to better yourself. These are not intended to offend or belittle, only show you opportunities to grow.

3.) If at any point you notice improper conduct, contact an administrator immediately. Bullying of any kind will not be tolerated. Arguing will also be regulated heavily. Polite, constructive debate is permitted within reason.

4.) In order to receive EXP, GP and AP for your feedback (see Workshop Guide), a critique must be helpful, elaborate, and considerate. It is suggested that the review be at least 3 paragraphs and focus on strengths, weaknesses, and overall content. You may use the Althanas Rubric as a guide.

5.) Those that leave an exceptionally detailed review with plenty of constructive advice may be eligible for double rewards. This will be up to the posting judge's discretion. The authors of the thread may request the additional reward be given if they found a review to be particularly helpful. The request must still be approved.

Go nuts.

[Ebivoulya]

You both know your way around a post well enough that I didn't bother mentioning the basics when they were done well, so most of these notes will be criticisms, but I still enjoyed the thread overall. It was interesting to read about some of these happenings I've heard of, and as two first-person users the whole thing was pretty seamless.


Story:

The Forrest Gump quote was an interesting choice for an intro. You tied the metaphor into explaining Vince's role and mindset pretty well in the first paragraph, though, so I'd call it a good intro. I noted a few minor details that were a bit off, but left those to other sections. The story moves pretty quickly into the meeting between Maddy and Vincent; haven't seen a skin-contact flashback in a while. Nice to see the old tropes every now and then. The premise of their meeting seems solid enough, but some of the interactions didn't seem quite right; most of that I leave to the Persona category.

Their discussion is interesting, and the reader gets a bit of insight into the whole Pode thing, but the connection that brought Vincent to assume who Maddy was is unclear to me. First he thinks she's a Podeslayer, than after mentioning that her hand felt odd immediately assumed she was the Scourge of Eiskalt. This may be more obvious to those who were involved in the Pode fight, but to an outsider it seemed an arbitrary and convenient conclusion.

I'm not sure if the belief in evolution is prevalent in Althanas, but I could see Maddy coming to that conclusion after working with the plague. The use of that word, 'evolution,' though, plus the word 'programming,' made it seem like you were both operating on Earthly understanding and vocabulary. I think you also missed another interesting opportunity, Andy. Since Maddy isn't from Earth, the idea of engineering a counter-plague should be quite novel. As far as I can tell from this thread she's studied things as they evolved naturally, but it doesn't seem like she has done much to specifically direct that evolution. It didn't ruin anything, but it would've been nice to see more of a scholarly fascination with this new method, or some precedent for her familiarity with it mentioned. Bonus points for a good theoretical book title, though.

Maddy realizing Vincent knew her identity was well done; I was wondering how long you were going to hold off on that. I would almost say the explanation was a bit much, but it was pretty informative to someone who didn't read the actual threads, so I'd say it's worth it. Their immediate trust towards eachother after Maddy's 'confession' seems pretty quick, though. Still, it was adequate for the simple meet and greet with a bit of tension that it was. The build-up and payoff of this thread were both rather lack-luster, almost unavoidable given the simple premise, and the believability of some of the reactions and decisions are a bit questionable, but it was still decently done, pretty informative, and a smooth and easy read.


Setting:

Neither of you bother describing the cafe beyond your chosen adjectives for it, i.e. 'posh,' 'quaint,' etc. Usually the curse of first-person writing, the lack of setting seems rather profound when both of you are doing it. Granted, it wasn't required for the story, but things like "ancient, musty, tattered tome that looked older than time itself" after sparing no more than one adjective a piece for the setting, don't help the immersion. Any change in description density should be gradual, unless it's for effect.

I know you tried to set up 'shitty service' as part of the flavor of the cafe, Cards, but it was spread too thin. With one tiny mention of it at the start of the the thread, the whole cold tea thing several posts later seems unnecessary. It just kind of fizzled out; no more mention of the cold tea or Vince's displeasure at it, and a few paragraphs later he's jovially ordering cheese. If you're going to set up a background detail, you gotta keep reminding the reader about it every so often, or it'll just fade away.

Despite your description of setting still lacking, you do describe people quite well and concisely, Andy; enough for a good mental image, but no more. Not sure why Maddy 'forced a pleasant smile' when she's wearing a mask, though, but a lot of the small details seemed to disappear near the end of this thread. I know pacing is king with first-person, but you can at least throw setting a bone from time to time. Even a few little non-visual cues like smells and sounds can really help setting a tone, I think.


Pacing:

Card's broader 'philosophical' intro lead into Andy's sharp scene-shift to Maddy quite well; kept the pace going smoothly. Both of you manipulate pacing very well to keep things smooth between your slightly different styles. Pretty much the only thing I noticed that dragged a bit was the slight backtracking of your fifth post, Andy. It wasn't a large bump, though it did seem a bit over-done, but it did its job well enough.




Communication:

Both characters sound appropriately scholarly, though Maddy had the advantage of having more lines. Other than Maddy's use of 'evolution' and 'programming' word choice and sentence structure seemed appropriate for both of you.


Action:

Really not sure what the whole hand-holding thing was about. Seems a little overly-dramatic, really, and the speech during it a bit long-winded as well. If there's some threat or significance to the hand-holding, I'm not aware of it.


Persona:


Maddy:

The description of the effects of the resonance of the shards of Pode was adequate; light, but you covered the basics. Hyperion's interjection to distract from Maddy's condition was pretty amusing, and well timed, though. I also enjoyed her reasoning for not just taking the book. Her scholarly side remains evident in both how she debates, and her mindset and priorities. The bit about heros at the start of your fourth post was a nice touch as well.

Though it did seem a bid odd for Maddy to be so casual in apparently telling her life's story, it did have the curiosity-piquing effect she seemed to intend, and was pretty well done all around. However, Maddy started trusting Vincent quite a bit for someone who seemed so secretive to begin with. I know she wants access to his facility, but all the suspicion you fostered earlier didn't linger even a little bit after her 'confession.'



Vincent:

Vince's proposal of a counter-plague made decent sense, given our earthly understanding of genetic engineering, and his reasoning for being so adamant about working with Maddy fits his scholarly disposition well. My only suggestion would be that you could try to use the mantra 'show, not tell' more in how you show his emotions. Rather than spelling them out for the reader, some subtle body language could add a bit of interesting flair. It's okay to trust the average reader around here to get it. My only complaint would be that, much like Maddy, Vincent didn't seem to retain even a little bit of suspicion, and didn't even question her story in his mind. It didn't necessarily detract from the thread, but it did seem awfully convenient how quickly they implicitly trusted eachother.




Mechanics:

Only a couple notes for each of you.


Andy, all I found were a few typos. The last one is a suggestion.

"since the couriers [were] took what seemed like an eternity to make their deliveries."
"I took a deep breath and tried to suppress the hate [the] emanated from the remnants of Pode "
"--a reminder of my time in the service of the Red Witch[. T]he only evidence I needed to counter his." -- Incomplete sentence is incomplete.
"The wiry boy in that ugly shade of purple wanted to save Raiaera[; a]gain." -- It's pretty easy, s'all I'm sayin', but we've had this conversation before.


Cards, yours are all suggestions. You occasionally use the same word multiple times in the same sentence. This isn't technically incorrect, but it sounds kinda lazy and redundant, and some quick editing could fix it.

" three tomes so ancient and [valuable] that it was likely that they were the last copies in existence, making them [valuable]"
"...needed me to succeed [here] it seemed. I could sense a change in direction [here,]"
" Information flooded into my [mind,] as if our mere touch was the linking of a fiber optic cable flooding my [mind]" -- This one was especially noticeable, because you go on to use 'mind' four more times in the same small paragraph.
"Peas in a 'Pode" -- This pun is terrible; I just wanted to point that out.


Clarity:

I didn't really notice any snags in this category from either of you, but I do have a few small notes for Cards. First, and most amusingly, the mental image of 'Fate doling out ass' may not have been what you intended.

"That’s the feeling that crossed my entire being" -- Something about a phrase as 'posh' as 'entire being' after that casual intro to your second post seems a bit stiff.

"I couldn’t discern much of them from behind their garb, now openings" -- The 'from' makes it sound like you're behind their garb, and I'm sure you meant 'no openings.'


Technique:


Andy:

Your typical humor remains well balanced, probably the most enjoyable aspect of your style. You're well-versed in first-person, and excel quite a bit at manipulating pacing. As I mentioned, and I'm sure you're well aware of, setting is definitely your weakest area. I know lengthy lines waxing poetic about a tree-branch are pretty counter-productive to a style like yours, but even sprinkling a few in would really improve your already impressive immersion, especially non-visual cues as I mentioned before.

You usually stay toward the lighter end of the spectrum, but can certainly mold a few good metaphors from time to time, and don't fall into the old first-person trap of describing everyithing in relative terms to the character. The only real suggestion I would have other than the previous would be to perhaps stop using so many one line-paragraphs.

Your third post seems to suffer from an over-abundance of them.

It's like the repetition of the technique completely nullifies it.

If all are subject to special treatment, that treatment is no longer special.

I have to wonder if you do it just to make it look like more.

I'll stop there. You know what you're about, I leave the rest up to you.



Cards:

Most of your posts are smooth and don't rock the boat. That kind of applies to your style as well, I think. It's smooth, doesn't bother other people, but doesn't really pop out or do anything different either. The more casual aspects of your style are hit and miss sometimes, but they're really the only thing memorable I can think of.

Your sixth post was pretty good. You get Vincent's emotions across loud and clear, if sometimes a bit heavy-handed. You could probably get away with a bit more subtlety. You also fall into the first-person trap I mentioned earlier. Not every sentence needs to include 'I' or 'me,' you can describe things separately as long as the pronouns referring to your character don't change.

The whole 'tuned her out because holy shit but remembered it all anyways' thing seems awfully convenient, and pretty heavy-handed. Subtlety in this instance could also do you well, I think. Pretty good first paragraph of your last post, though. You do seem quite good at molding your post intros to other people's styles, and otherwise providing the 'glue' to turn multiple character's perspectives into a more cohesive story.

Much like Andy, I think your style could benefit from at least a sprinkling of setting description, and make sure to stick with the details you add. Utilizing a few more metaphors and other literary devices could also help your style pop out more. You're a solid first-person writer with a good amount of versatility, but still some room to grow. I look forward to seeing how you choose to polish your style.




Well, that does it. As I said, it was a decent read that didn't give me any trouble. I'm sure that's about what you expected, given that it's a workshop, but maybe a fresh pair of eyes helped point out a few things to consider. If you have any questions, just hit me up.

[Kryos]

Alright guys, let’s get this rolling. I would like to first say that this was one of the first threads I perused after “coming back” from crazy wedding planning/first semester med school craziness. That being said, it was super awesome to see Madison Freebird, the villain of Althanas in my book, interacting with Vincent Cain. The thread was a nice, quick read that I thoroughly enjoyed. Now, on to the details!

Things that Popped:

Post 3:

Have you ever had really bad food poisoning? You know, the type that has you bent over the porcelain throne spewing every ounce of your stomach contents out until you’re soaked in sweat and praying for it all to end. The type that’s so bad that the mere scent of whatever made you sick was enough to make you gag reflexively?

Not surprisingly, I do know exactly what you mean here. About a year ago I had this happen to me with some sesame chicken. I am still warming up to chinese food. And yes, I was there, just as you described. As unpleasant a memory as it was, I really enjoyed this description. Nicely done.

Post 8:

He was a fucking hero.

I hate heroes.

This post was probably my favorite of the thread. The reason being how much depth I was able to get of who Madison is and what is driving her, yet despite that load of information and personality, it was done in a way light enough to not slow down the pacing of the thread. The quote above was so great, in my opinion, because if its simplicity. It was the highlight of the post. Well done.

Post 10:

How to Kill an Island Nation with a Bucket of Rats: A Study in the Spread of Viruses in an Isolated Environment.

This was a great detail that added a nice bit of Althanas to the post.

Story:
Alright, as for the story aspect, you both did well here. While the story of this thread consisted of a “simple” conversation in a cafe, you both were able to bring in a lot more story that I would have expected. From Card’s desire to cure Raiaera and his apparent work already put into that effort, to the teasing of Madison’s research that I now want to know more about. The reference to the Archivists, and the repetition of the personage of fate were also great additions. In summation, you both brought in more story than I would have expected for a mainly conversation thread.

Character:
Ah, the characters. From this thread, I was surprised to see hints that Maddy had, indeed, turned over a new leaf, but was happy to see the villain still there as she was tempted to slaughter everyone and take the books. Then again, both characters are so well established that you both are able to show fantastic character in even short posts. I don’t have much to say here, aside from well done. I also enjoyed seeing the strategist in Vincent, aside from his noble aspirations and plans and “get the job done” that I have seen the Emperor of the Tarot be in other threads.

Prose/Technique:
I noticed a few grammar issues, just a handful, from you both, but none that very much distracted from the read. The only thing that did distract me was transitioning from post 2 to post 3. Going from the present and the crazy reaction of the handshake, to a stream of consciousness that, while I very much enjoyed the description of food poisoning in and of itself, seemed to break the flow of the building intensity. If that first paragraph had been written with more active voice of what was immediately happening, using that great imagery interspersed throughout Vincent’s reaction, then that transition would have been much better, at least for me.

Final Thoughts:
You both are very accomplished writers, who have much more of a presence and experience on Althanas than I. That being said, I am grateful to have the opportunity to read your work and offer my thoughts on it. I quite enjoyed this thread, and thought you both did a great job. Hopefully, you enjoy the feedback, although there wasn’t much I ended up giving in terms of advice or improvement. You must forgive me, and I hope that as I continue to read more I will improve in my feedbacking skills. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Great job, and . . .

As always,
DFTBA

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

This workshop is now closed and rewards will be calculated

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

Sorry for the wait lads; it's been a hectic month!

Ebivoulya receives 375 EXP, 30 GP and 4 AP!
Kryos receives 375 EXP, 30 GP and 4 AP!

Due to the wait on these rewards I'm rounding your EXP up to 400 each.

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

All rewards have been added!