Jerry Falwell Dead

[Serilliant]

In case you haven't heard already, Christian fundamentalist leader Jerry Falwell has died. The imminent effect on politics is undeniable.

In case you're not familiar with his work, here are some of Jerry's political stances:


It is the fault of gays, lesbians, feminists, abortionists, and the ACLU that 9/11 happened
AIDS is God's punishment for being gay
Martin Luther King Jr. was a violent leftist
Labor unions undermine ones closeness with God
Tinky Winky (the purple teletubby) is a plot to turn children gay (see also: Spongebob Squarepants)


Jerry has had a hand in almost every major religion-based political move of the last few decades. His most recent being support of Bush's Faith Based Initiatives which, in 2005, allotted $2.1 billion in social service grants to faith-based organizations.

I'm very curious as to what the effect on conservative politics will be over the course of the next few months. On a personal note, I greatly celebrate his death and look forward to an ushering in of a new age of tolerance and acceptance and the ultimate downfall of fundamentalist decision making in this country. Whether this is mere idealism has yet to be seen, but I keep my fingers tightly crossed that the disruption of conservative leadership will allow more liberal politicos to mobilize.

Your thoughts and feelings? How do you think the current political course of the United States will be affected by Jerry's death?

[Karuka]

Personally, whatever their "religion," I'm always glad when someone who has based their entire life and basis around hate dies. The only people who really liked Falwell and what he had to teach were in the far right-wing, and Christians who had totally misinterpreted the Bible.

It's "hate the sin, love the sinner."

But ya don't have to like 'em, and I view Falwell as someone who deserves to burn in Hell. Or freeze in Hel. Not sure which.

[Nein]

A little bit of column A, and a little bit of column B.

I suppose someone will eventually twist this with an "It was God's will", but you will never be rid of the extremists. Another will take his place, so I intend to enjoy the time inbetween. Anyone up for the Dollhouse?

[Haruzame]

...That was a shock.

Fundamentalism without reason is... Well, sad. I feel sad for that Jerry guy because of his life being consumed by the hate of all things not canon to the Bible. Plus, I'm surprised he blamed America's unique freedom of individualism (and over-abuse of it) as the reason for a terror attack.

...I've spoken too much already.

I just hope his spiritual successor comes a long way in the future. If not, I'll steal his pants.

[Storm Veritas]

Sadly, I think some new retard will inevitably step into his shoes and continue to fuck things up.

For a slightly less religious, but still amazingly powerful self-righteous blowhard, see: Limbaugh, Rush.

[Karuka]

Also, Fred Phelps. I dunno...religious extremists always take things out of whack. Which makes a lot of people lose faith in religion.

[Nymph and Dragon]

I'm with him on the Teletubbies and Spongebob.

Actually, I can't really see his death having a very big impact on the US. Even if he was a fairly well-exposed demented bigwig, it seems to me that America is moving more towards policies of complete tolerance and neutrality in most issues anyway. And I'm sure that there are more like him out there that will do their best to step up and take their place. They may not be as far along the spectrum as he was, but have no fear, they're out there.

[Ürei]

You people make me sick. Despite someone being a moron and not understanding the fundamental building blocks of sense, doesn't mean that them dying is an occasion to be rejoiced.

Sick. Just sick.

[Nein]

... and who are you to value life so highly?

In a small world among a lone system, within a single galaxy, underneath the entire universe... what is one life? While we sit staring at our screens, ten have undoubtedly died somewhere on our planet. Perhaps even another ten have been birthed.

We are insignificant; you are insignificant; and Jerry is quite, quite insignificant.

Do you not agree?

If not, continue reading...

If you're aware of the common Christian belief, then this man is supposedly in a much better place, with his loving creator. No longer will he live out a tedious existance within the mortal realm, for he has ascended into heaven.

Why not rejoice, if you believe the same thing?

If you still protest, continue reading...

Jerry Falwell was a man of few morals, and his ignorance could not be ignored. In his death we find balance; as he caused pain, pain was caused upon him. It was bound to happen at one point in time or another, but Jerry provoked this final sentence.

So I will rejoice his death.


If not for the envy I carry.

[Skylar]

Don't see your point, Urei. This man wished death and hell upon specific groups of people because some silly little book told him so (or at least that's what his story would be, chances are he just doesn't like homosexuals or feminists, or all of them). You reap what you sow, and sowing the seeds of hatred will be returned in kind. We'll learn from his mistakes, and hopefully improve society and get over the gap he attempted to create in the ascent of civil rights. So, maybe he wasn't so harmful.

[Seether]

This man wished death and hell upon specific groups of people because some silly little book told him so...

There are quite a few books that say that...

...Ironic, isn't it?

[Massacre]

There will always be someone to take up his place, but let's hope that we can take a breath and get our bearings together in between. The next may be less or more extreme, who knows? Either way I think that when someone with such views dies or gets their reputation destroyed for something they did is something good. People who base their lives around making other people miserable are just ridiculous.

It makes me angry how stupid people can be about the Bible. While I no longer believe in God, some of the messages in the Bible still remain. No one should have to live through that kind of oppression and prejudice, I just hope that no one comes in his stead soon or that our next election will get a leader who isn't against homosexuality and such issues.

MLK a violent leftist? That's one of the stupidest things I've read lately, and the fault of all those groups that 9/11 happened?

No.

If he's such a fundamentalist I'm surprised he doesn't throw Muslims in there too, that doesn't quite make sense if he's already going to accuse everyone else, too.

[Karuka]

If you're aware of the common Christian belief, then this man is supposedly in a much better place, with his loving creator. No longer will he live out a tedious existance within the mortal realm, for he has ascended into heaven.


Those who preach falsely, and teach others to do the same, shall be cast into the pit.

If Christianity teaches right, Falwell was in for a rude awakening when he stepped up to the Pearly Gates and said "okay, hi guys, I'm your buddy Jerry!" and the attendant at the gate was like "to the left."

Or if it's all gonna happen in the future, and everyone's just waiting, he's gonna come to the realization that...oh...hate isn't a good lifestyle after all.

[Serilliant]

You people make me sick. Despite someone being a moron and not understanding the fundamental building blocks of sense, doesn't mean that them dying is an occasion to be rejoiced.

Sick. Just sick.

If so, then this should really make you sick:

I've marked his death date (and his birth date too, just for fun) on my calendar and plan to celebrate each passing with some rowdy, boy-on-boy, sodomite activities. In lieu of physically urinating on his grave, I opt to metaphorically ejaculate on his ideology.

[Seether]

If so, then this should really make you sick:

I've marked his death date (and his birth date too, just for fun) on my calendar and plan to celebrate each passing with some rowdy, boy-on-boy, sodomite activities. In lieu of physically urinating on his grave, I opt to metaphorically ejaculate on his ideology.

Sounds fun, except for the boy-on-boy part. And while urinating on someones grave can be relieving, I to agree that ejaculating...cause that just feels soooooo much better. And it's a much better relief. :)

[Fia]

I find celebrating the death of any but the most depraved disconcerting. Was there a thread like this when Saddam Hussein died? Or does a right wing fundamentalists deserve more contempt then a tyrant who mustard gassed almost 5,000 of his own people and tortured others to maintain personal power?
If there was, I stand corrected. If not, there seems to be a skewed perception on what manner of deaths merit celebration (if any do), and what the nature of hate and inflicting pain on others really is.

I don't think Mr. Falwell convinced most people of anything they didn't already believe in some capacity. He could be called offensive, unpopular and without tact, but as long as he didn't border the obscene, in America, he was free to hold his opinions. But that is a slightly different argument.

I guess I'm in the John Donne camp on some matters.

[Synful_Blood]

I don't agree with the way they did Hussein's death. They just made a martyr. Not to say the guy didn't deserve what he got...but there's gonna be some trouble later on because of the way they killed him.

[Nein]

Karu,

It really depends which view of Christianity you consult. xD

[Ashiakin]

I find celebrating the death of any but the most depraved disconcerting. Was there a thread like this when Saddam Hussein died? Or does a right wing fundamentalists deserve more contempt then a tyrant who mustard gassed almost 5,000 of his own people and tortured others to maintain personal power?

In the sense you're talking about, the difference between Saddam Hussein and Jerry Falwell is people's perception of them. Was Hussein a worse man than Falwell? Most definitely. There's really no one here, I think, that would disagree with that. It's a non-issue. The point here is that people recognized that Hussein was an evil man, but fewer Americans realized that Falwell had a harmful and damaging impact on the lives of many people. There was more point in announcing it.

Althanas does not offer equal time provisions between the deaths of cruel dictators and bigoted idiots. Too many people in this world listen to misguided religious leaders, but I'd wager that very few people on this site live in countries that mourn the loss of Saddam Hussein.

[hamnat]

I myself, am a right-wing constituent. However, I do not agree with the ideals of said recently-departed. For one, no way in heck was MLK a violent leftist. Secondly, the guy sounds like one of those "proud" members of the Klan. Thirdly, labor unions do not detract from one's relationship with their deity(God included), they are there to insure that our rights here on Earth are protected while in the work-place.

SpongeBob is not gay(though maybe metrosexual...), and I avoid watching Telytubbies as much as possible, so I wouldn't know about that.

HIV was a result of a mutation of the SIV virus, which originally infected certain monkeys in Africa. It mutated into a form that could attack the human body and was communicated when the native tribes came in contact with blood from the monkeys...which they skinned.

And while I'm not overly-fond of any of the parties supposedly "at fault" for 9/11, they are not the reason some Islamic extremists collided a pair of Jet-planes with the towers. Note that by overly-fond, I do not mean I am against them, I just don't understand them entirely and don't entirely endorse them.

So, all-in-all, I'm not at all aggrieved that he's dead. However, I'm not going to rejoice and throw parties because he is, either. He lived a sad life, maybe he didn't see it that way, but it was something to be pitied.

[Serilliant]

You bring up an excellent point, Fia. You are absolutely correct that there are individuals more deserving of contempt than Falwall. My reasoning for celebrating his death and not others is based on personal relevance. Jerry's actions have personally affected me in a way that makes my method of celebration rather ironic. I suppose I could also choose to donate to Jewish funds on Hitler's death anniversary, but I simply do not have the same personal connection with Adolf as I do with Jerry.

I by no means wish to represent that I believe Falwall to be the worst pox humanity has ever seen. It just so happens that I have chosen to make him a symbol of an ideology I dislike (given that he champions it so fiercely, the appointment is fair).

[Max Dirks]

Serilliant, this thread is wholly inappropriate and should be deleted.

What respect I had for you is lost.

[Fia]

Ah, I see.

And in other news, spongebob dresses too hideously to be metro, in my opinion.

[Atzar]

I'm not really understanding the sentiment of "you're celebrating his death, that's wrong" that's popped up here.

It's not really the fact that a person has died that people are happy about. Instead, it's the fact that a foolish ideology has taken a shot. That could very well make life easier - or at the very least, a little friendlier - for everybody that's personally involved. The fact that a person has died is insignificant. The fact that an idea has lost its major supporter is the real matter of importance here.

[Letho]

Ideology that someone deems foolish in another man's credo. If an eminent member of, let's say, homosexual community died and some orthodox person made a thread here about how good it is that another "fag" (and I use the term just to emphasize the whole issue) is dead, this thread would've been closed before that same orthodox person would've hit the "create thread" button. Not to mention what would happen if somebody said that they would urinate and ejaculate on the grave of that homosexual person.

I really have no definite opinion on the topic of the thread mainly because it doesn't concern me in any way. I'm just saying that it should remain civilized and it should deal with the repercussions of Jerry Falwell's death, and not the personal feelings somebody might have about it.

[Storm Veritas]

I think that's an unfair comparison, Letho.

Falwell's ignorance (be it intentional or genetic) led to a tremendous assault on human rights. He openly campaigned for people to look at various segments of society as second class and leveraged to suspend civil rights to those not worthy of his God.

The counterpoint you offer is the homosexual community, which has made no such affront on the mainstream. The closest parallel is the weakening of the "sacrament of marriage", although I'd argue that Britney Spears has done more to tarnish that than every buckfutter on the face of the planet.

[Letho]

The thing is, I'm not trying to argue the influence he had and compare it in significance worldwide with other things. I have neither the knowledge on the matter nor the will to get tangled up in such discussions. What I was trying to point out was that Althanas-wise, if similar posts/opinions were stated in a variety of other threads, they would be deemed inappropriate. There might be people - though I'm not saying that there are such people on Althanas - that dislike homosexuals or Canada or vanilla or God as much as some people dislike this Jerry Falwell fellow, and that's fine. We all have opinions. I'm just saying that people should keep it at opinions and not turn this into a public bashing or something.

[Karuka]

Letho...I think that if there were a homosexual rights leader who were right-wing enough to try and impose homosexuality on the rest of the population, and heterosexuals suffered because of him/her, the more centrist homosexuals would be just as embarrassed of him/her as more centrist Christians are of Falwell. Thus, the passing of such a figure would be a cause for joy among heterosexuals, as well as a "good riddance" moment for the homo/bi-sexuals not only in the world, but also on the board.

Personally, I was looking at attending Liberty University (the school Falwell founded) for a bit. It has good food, good programs, and it's a really pretty school. And then I learned what the man stood for, and was too disgusted to consider it further. Not because of the school itself, but because of the ideals of the founder.

[Max Dirks]

Letho is absolutely right. People are entitled to their opinions, but when their opinions are expressed in such a detestable and atrocious way, those people become no better than the ideologies that they are against.

[hamnat]

I, personally, agree with Max to some degree. This thread is one that can easily transform into an ideology-basher. It is highly likely that such a thread as this could easily shift from a "rejoice the loss of an oppressive leader" thing to a "stfu, you f'in idiot!" thing.

I think that if this thread is to continue, it needs to remain under close watch by the people who should shut it down, if it comes to such a point.

Back on topic, as I said before, I'm not happy about his death, and I definitely don't plan on urinating over his grave, but it is a good thing that an influential constituent of an oppressive ideal is no longer able to influence the way society handles such things. I'm also glad that he's no longer able to bring in more extremists to his cause...people like the abortion clinic bombers, and people who beat the ever-living-tar out of homosexuals. With his death, the influx of such people to his cause will hopefully decrease, and said victims will hopefully have some peace until the next leader comes in to revive the ideal, which I'm hoping will not come to pass for at least 5 years(gotta be realistic).

[Cyrus the virus]

Stfu Hamnat, Althanas discussions never deteriorate that badly!!! STFU OK!!!!

Also, Max should make prudishness funny.

[Massacre]

This is slowly turning into an Althanas-based argument. The fact that Jerry Falwell wouldn't sadden me more than anyone else dying. Also, if we can't voice our opinions on the man or his death then you're also saying that we can't voice our opinions on Democrats, Bush, Shaq, or anyone else.

People die and we have to move on with life in my opinion, as for the effects on the government, let's hope that issues such as gay marriage, banning teletubbies, and whatever other stupid issue people want to argue over aren't so argued over or simply resolved. I think that they have nothing to do with the national government, let's face it, nothing has been done. They just use it as a tool to win over a group of voters, just like anything else. People focus too much on moral issues than what the government is supposed to be focusing on, the country.

I'm usually pretty apathetic but the American government annoys me and everyone who didn't vote for it, especially other countries.

[Serilliant]

...this thread would've been closed before that same orthodox person would've hit the "create thread" button.

Don't judge so quickly. If someone truly celebrates the death of a gay leader, they have every right to make a thread here to discuss it. I pride very highly that Althanas is as free of censorship as reasonably possible and welcome our members to openly discuss controversial topics without fear of retribution.

That having been said, your situation is somewhat different because it crosses the line into flaming. As likely the most outspoken advocate in this thread so far of celebration, I'd say that my posts have been decidedly devoid of flammable material. It's one thing to assert that Falwell was a "bible-thumping whore bag", and quite another to simply proclaim my distaste of his ideology and my personal plans to commemorate his passing.

And, as a side note, I never said that I would ejaculate on his grave. That'd be a sin.


The fact that a person has died is insignificant. The fact that an idea has lost its major supporter is the real matter of importance here.
Thank you. This is most definitely a point I should have thought to have made. You've explained my feelings quite nicely.


Letho is absolutely right. People are entitled to their opinions, but when their opinions are expressed in such a detestable and atrocious way, those people become no better than the ideologies that they are against.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, Max, but this thread is not about debating the merits of this thread's existence. You are more than welcome to continue that tangent elsewhere.

And that is the last I'll say on that.

Hamnat: I agree. I certainly am not so idealistic as to think that there will not be a Falwell-lite to come in the near future, I just hope that as time passes, the ideology will gradually grow less extreme. Tolerance is increasing due in part to the deaths of much of the older, less tolerant population. Jerry is a rather convenient scapegoat for the slowly perishing generation soon to be replaced by a hopefully more accepting youth. The wheels of social progress are always turning. It just so happens that Jerry's larger-than-life status earns us more than the typical share of axle spins.

[hamnat]

Stfu Hamnat, Althanas discussions never deteriorate that badly!!! STFU OK!!!!

*quacks* *leaves thread discussion area because she's said enough*

[Cyrus the virus]

I was just kidding with you, buddy :p I thought it was obvious enough! Duckie.

As for my opinion, it pretty much mirrors what Serilliant just quoted Atzar as saying. I'm hard pressed to support the existence of beliefs such as Falwell's, regardless of how free I sometimes wish the world and its people could be to share such opinions. There's a line in free speech that should be drawn, and I think Jerry was far beyond that line. Nobody should be allowed to slander, publicly, a group of people and their idealogy -- especially if said group of people is nowhere near as judgmental as the judging group. That, my friends, was poorly said. And with that I flee.

[Sighter Tnailog]

Falwell has died; what he stands for lives on.

For those of us battling against the ideology of Falwell, it only aids and abets our enemies to gloat over his death and promise to celebrate over his gravestone. It confirms their belief that we are mean-spirited and small-minded children with nothing better to do than rejoice that a human being has perished.

As a Christian myself, I mourn the death of Falwell, for he was a child of God. He may have been wayward, he may have done things that dishonored the image of God in his brothers and sisters, but he still deserves respect as a human being. For the Bible I read...and the Bible that Falwell often woefully misquoted, says plain as day: "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."

If Falwell indeed rests in God's loving embrace, then I think it says less that he was right and more that God is more forgiving than we give Her credit for.

[Ther]

I disagreed with most of his ideas and ideologies, but I'm not happy when anyone dies - to be happy over his death seems to cede the moral high ground, and I think Sighter is absolutely right in everything he said.