Originality, or lack thereof...

[Letho]

So, I've been thinking recently. It hurt my brain a little bit, but I did it anyways. And I kept thinking about originality and just how much of it do we all have to offer. I mean, we are all here to write from one reason or other. Some of us do it for the sheer fun, some do it to improve their writing, some to write and communicate with other writers, for some it's the combination of all of the above. But how original are we in what we write? Can we honestly take into consideration all the books that were written prior to our writing attempts and say that what we're writing wasn't done once before? Twice? A bundle of times?

I don't know. I fear that what most of us do is simply rehashing some stories we once read or saw in a movie, just put our characters in, add some minor twist and call it our own. Or at best, we piece together two or three different stories, making our very own literary Frankenstein's monster. Now, I'm not saying this as an accusation directed to anyone in particular. I'm merely stating something I fear I notice in my own writing, these patterns that I've seen before somewhere, and I'm asking do some of you feel the same way sometimes.

Bottom line is this. I think we all fantasize of writing a book in near (or distant) future. But with so much already written, with so many stories told, is there still one fresh idea out there that we can use, one unspoken story that's waiting for us to tell it? Are there more? Or maybe we just think it's original even though somebody wrote it already? I had this idea for a book a while back that seemed original. Recently I heard they're making a TV show based on a very similar story, so somebody more capable obviously beat me to the punch. But what if we were all beaten to the punch, and we just don't know it?

[Göth]

I read a lot of books on the same genre that are a lot alike eachother, but they are writen in different styles and have different things in them.

Honestly, I believe every storyline that will be written has already been written. Entertaining people with your individual spark to writing is whats worth reading. Don't be afraid to not write the most impossibly original thing. Just write. Someone will read it and enjoy it.

[Seraphima]

I agree. It was said in the time of King Solomon "there is nothing new under the sun." And there really isn't.

Writers write so that they can put their own spin on classic themes, with their own characters. And every character is different, like every person is different.

[Saxon]

I actually had this stapled in my thoughts when I began roleplaying, Letho. I know the feeling of looking over my writing and piecing together what scenes and what books I got it from, but I think its completely normal. Bud, humans are innovative creatures, we build things on top of thoughts and ideas on subjects we've read about and witnessed. I don't really think that there is a 'unknown storyline' that is completely made up of your own accord. Because really, I don't think we as human beings have the brain power to come up with a story completely from scratch. Think about it for a moment, when you write about say your lawman, or your boxer, where do you think you got those character ideas? The story ideas? Your style of writing?

We're all a culmination of ideas and culture brought together through large, dangerous doses of inspiration. I'd keep in mind that sometimes you have to look beyond what your doing and think to yourself: Are my ideas getting stale to me? You are your toughest critic, Letho. I've walked into that pearl of wisdom when I first started out here. Your a writer, a fantastic one at that, and you have a lot to offer the world, as do all of us here.

The idea behind writing is telling a story, and sometimes they are good, sometimes they are mediocre, and sometimes they are bad. But they are stories, and even though the readers get only a taste of the inner workings of your mind, your there for the whole thing. Keep at it, Letho. I'm sure you'll hit oil if you keep trying.

[Elijah_Morendale]

The sad thing is, everything has been done before. As a writer, I've accepted that fact. It doesn't stop me from writing what I think would still be a cool story/play/skit/whatever.

[Artifex Felicis]

Every single type of story that I truly loved about right now has been classified, and every other story from what I can gather is, indirectly or not, based off of it. (http://oaks.nvg.org/folktale-types.html)

Then again, there have been several thousand billion probably stories made by people. some are exactly alike, a lot more aren't. How a story is told is more important then the idea itself. Some, like Cannary Row are simple. "About a year's of time on a street." But even then, it still turns out to be one of the greatest stories, I think, ever told.

[Ebivoulya]

I agree. While the chances of producing a truely one-of-a-kind story are slim to none, the chances of doing something else the same way someone else did it is probably even smaller, unless you do it on purpose. Not just story arches, but writing in general. By producing a rehashed story from a viewpoint that not many people see, you've still created something original.

Some time ago people were worried that the patent office would be shut down because people would run out of things to invent, but that's not the case, and never will be, and it's the same for writing. Either way, who do you know that has read every book in existence? Chances are your audience won't know about whatever work it is your piece is most closely related to, so to them, it'll be original, and really, aren't our readers what matter most anyways?

The nature of humans makes it just about impossible to come up with any idea that's not at least based on something else, but it's still different, and that's where its originality lies.

[Woo, sixty posts in a little over two years]

[Reiko]

pretty much what Sera says is right. Tolkien rehashed old myths, today's fantasy writers rehash Tolkien. What we do as a writer is try to make the old new again with our spin, there's nothing wrong with that as long as everyone has fun.

[Letho]

Maybe most of you are right. I mean, maybe at this point if you want to create something truly original, you'd have to create something as ludicrous as pink-skinned seven-eyed acid-spewing-from-penis aliens invading an alternate dimension of a world in a galaxy not so far, far away and still fear that somebody did it before you. It's kind of depressing when you think about it. No matter what you do, somebody is probably going to say: "Hey, you know what? I read something very similar to that in *insert book/movie title*.".

I guess in the end, as some of you said, it's not the originality of the idea that we need to strive for, but rather the originality of the way we tell that story. As somebody once said, it's not the ultimate goal that matters in the end, but rather the voyage to that goal. But therein lays the trap, I believe. If we make peace with the fact that we're writing what's already been written and telling what's already been told, then there will be nothing innovative in our writing. I think that on some level we all secretly believe that we're doing something original, something that's not been done before. That gives our writing our own personal seal that makes it different at least in our own eyes.

Then again, on the flip side, I keep remembering the movie "A Beautiful Mind" in which a brilliant mathematician sought one original idea. He sought with such passion and for so long that his life almost went to ruin. But once he found it, it was a revolution. Granted, math is probably not a good thing to draw parallels with, but the concept is similar. If you want to quake the world with something, you better come up with something pretty damn awesome.

However, keep in mind that John Nash, the mathematician from the story damn near lost his mind. Too big of a price to pay for something original? I'd consider trading my mind for something original. I lost half of it already anyways. :P

[Elijah_Morendale]

"I mean, maybe at this point if you want to create something truly original, you'd have to create something as ludicrous as pink-skinned seven-eyed acid-spewing-from-penis aliens invading an alternate dimension of a world in a galaxy not so far, far away and still fear that somebody did it before you."

Sounds like something Christopher Moore would come up with...

[The Valkyrie]

The harder we strive for something that has never been done before instead of just striving to write down in the best way possible what we need to say (be it fiction or nonfiction), the worse our writing becomes and the harder it is to read and relate to. Do what you love, and it will show in what you create. When it shows, people love it. That's what makes it original, not that it hasn't ever been done before.

[Lucien]

The most original things in life kind've sucks. To be fair, people tend to stay with the familiar rehashed in slightly different and entertaining ways. We don't invent new forms of written language for a reason, though writing a book as such may certainly be original.

We use proper grammar and structures taught to us and work our craft from the raw iron that is our words, wrought through the tools of the trade that is our creativity. Painters who use new canvases and tools, creating new things; while novel, might not be the best.

Modern art really does suck.

[Empyrean]

Half? I thought your mind was completely gone!

In all seriousness, it's as everyone else has said so far: it's been done before. The trick is, like you said, the way you do it. I've read stories about, say, the mishaps and adventures of cold, distant women and how their lives and personalities affect them. But just because I've already read it, I'm not going to stop myself from writing my own story about one such person. It's my story. There are no two people in the world or in history who were/are exactly the same. It's that uniqueness, however minor it could be, that people are seeking in a good story.

Well, that and entertainment, but I'm sure you're not just trying to write for the enjoyment of others. Writing is you telling your stories. You've made it absolutely crystal clear that you have a talent for words; don't waste it by doubting its potential. Yeah, it's disappointing to find that someone's already taken 'your' idea - I've dealt with that plenty of times before. Just keep confidence in the fact that one day, someone's going to be reading your books and complaining, "Man, that was MY thing!!" :)

[Christina Bredith]

I had the great misfortune to read a book on this very topic when I was in high school. The book, by Northrop Frye, spoke of "archetypal criticism" and therein that most stories, or perhaps all stories, could fall under certain archetypes, themes, motifs, etc. Suffice it to say, everything has been done already. If you're looking for originality, as Letho said (or implied, anyway ^^;;), you're going to have to come up with something that, in the end, will risk being ridiculously and overwhelmingly stupid. The most you can really hope for is a new twist on an old idea.

But it doesn't really matter. If sticking to the archetypes was such a bad thing, literature would have ceased to exist centuries ago. Fictional literature, anyway. There's a reason we continue to read and write despite the constant rehashing of old themes and motifs. They're familiar, and thus comfortable (we know what to expect), but we can spin them in new ways to make them interesting again. Originality is overrated.

[Ataraxis]

I was the one who came up with 'Got Milk?', it's true!

And it's certain that there's a lot rehash in writing, and that even though most stories are just distant spinoffs of one or many others, they still manage to affect the readers, because writing isn't, thankfully, only about being original - originality shouldn't even be in the top factors a writer should be concerned about, since focusing on that too much will most likely make the rest deteriorate. Even if you were to write a completely original, never before seen story, there's no certainty that it'll be a good story.

I do believe that it's still possible to write something good and never before seen. Let's remember that novels were considered bastard offsprings of literature in the past, and now we can't seem to go a day without, in one way or another, referencing one. There may be nothing new under the sun, but there's plenty of ancient stuff that's still untouched, and plenty more above and all around it for us to discover.

[Skylar]

When I make a character, I try to build as much of him or her as I possibly can. I try to think about how they would handle every situation, and when something happens, they do what they would do. I try to give them a life of their own, like it is apart from what I would do. I think when you can create a person in your writing that isn't manipulated for entertainment or literary purposes, you'll find something that may not be "new", but it will have its own personal shade. No point in reinventing the wheel, right?

[Alberdyne_Cormyr]

As I've always done in my tenure in Althanas in the past and I am going to continue to do in the future I am going against the mainstream concensus of this thread.

Originality--

Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-rij-uh-nal-i-tee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the quality or state of being original.
2. ability to think or express oneself in an independent and individual manner; creative ability.
3. freshness or novelty, as of an idea, method, or performance.

Idea--

–noun
1. any conception existing in the mind as a result of mental understanding, awareness, or activity.
2. a thought, conception, or notion: That is an excellent idea.
3. an impression: He gave me a general idea of how he plans to run the department.
4. an opinion, view, or belief: His ideas on raising children are certainly strange.
5. a plan of action; an intention: the idea of becoming an engineer.
6. a groundless supposition; fantasy.
7. Philosophy.
a. a concept developed by the mind.
b. a conception of what is desirable or ought to be; ideal.
c. (initial capital letter) Platonism. Also called form. an archetype or pattern of which the individual objects in any natural class are imperfect copies and from which they derive their being.
d. Kantianism. idea of pure reason.
8. Music. a theme, phrase, or figure.
9. Obsolete.
a. a likeness.
b. a mental image.

These definitions were gotten from http://www.dictionary.com and I posted them to prove a point.

Skilled Authors in the Science Fiction genre will tell you one thing--that the greatest works of Science Fiction became great because they offered SOMETHING original in the world. I've read countless books on publishing and self-publishing that all say the same thing. People are tired of seeing the same old tired re-hashed storylines and want to see ideas that are great and fresh and ORIGINAL.

Our Imaginations are based almost entirely upon what we have exposed ourselves to. (I.E. what books we've read, what lectures we've attended what schools we've been taught at, what video games we've played, what music we listen to etc, etc etc ad nauseum) Granted that you can only make some completely original work based upon the collective body of what you have available TO YOU.

There's infinite universes of possibilities lurking in your imagination once you've broken the barriers of whatever it is that is holding you back. Artists often go insane (Or are insane) because we look upon the universe in a detached sort of way that other people donot see. Or won't see. Maybe we see the truth, maybe we see it in a less clouded way WHO THE HELL KNOWS?

All I know is that originality DOES exist. When you have an idea you perfect it, you work upon as a blacksmith works upon his anvil. You gotta make it uniquely yours and strive to get it out there. If your idea catches on your idea becomes an institution.

I'm trying to say that there IS originality and writers who re-hash the same old storyline are selling themselves short and really not trying as hard as their imagination would allow them to normally.

Letho I think you're on the right track. Don't allow your gift to become dead weight, just keep on writing.

And remember too great success is often exactly about timing.

~~PV

[Skie and Avery]

The basic concept of something may have been done before, Duro, but passion and personality make it unique. There are tons of heros. There's only one Letho Ravenheart. There's tons of hot guys who drive busted up Volkswagon Beetles, but there's only one Harry Dresden. And there are tons of guys who put way too much thought into this subject, but there's only one Duro Prem.

[Karuka]

There's tons of hot guys who drive busted up Volkswagon Beetles,
Weeeeell...maybe not tons. Maybe half a ton.

[Mage Hunter]

Meh I could site many places I got inspiration for my stuff and people I should accredit SO much to. I just try to put as original a spin on it as possible.

[Corvus MacCallum]

Its not always difficult or tricky to be original, all it takes is thinking eight feet to the left, or right and viewing things from a pleasantly schewed angle. Taking it in small steps and little notions all helps out quite nicely... but the most important thing to writing is personality and personability, a strong sense of character with the surrounding info clearly plucked from the writers own mind instead of some author they idolized.