Guns?

[DarkStorm]

I've talked to a few people, and I can't really get a clear idea of what is and is not allowed here in the way of Guns. I have seen more than a few people with them, but have also been told that nothing more than single shot, old style weaponry is allowed... but I have also seen a couple characters with Revolvers...

I am confused on the topic, so I thought it'd be best to post it here, and get a definitive answer.

And just to cut any lecturing before it begins: Yes, I realize guns are not toys, yes, I realize the quest to get it would have to be good, no, I am not talking about futuristic laser guns, and no, I am not talking about trying to buy one from the Bazaar.

[Slayer of the Rot]

Oh, I've owned everything in the way of firearms from laser pistols too AK-47's to Desert Eagles to sawed off shotguns with magical bullets to .45 Semi-Autos. You have to put a lot of sweat and blood into acquiring a firearm of any sort, but I've seen plenty allowed, though never on registration, and never just acquired for free. Even buying them in the Bazaar, you have to have a sizeable amount of money, which can't be acquired aside from hard work.

There are a lot of belly achers out there, too, who protest against the use of guns on the board, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, from the mouth of a great man:

You can pry my gun from my cold, dead fingers.

[Saxon]

Depends. I've never really had a problem with guns, but for some reason the thought is that you're allowed to create torrents of fire out of thin air, but you cannot possess a weapon that fires bullets unless your qualified to use it, and especially not at level 0 :rolleyes:. I've seen several threads where guns have exchanged hands, even lasers, so don't count yourself short. It really depends on who you get to approve your profile, judge your quests and award you spoils, etc etc. The way it seems to be though is that its looked down upon mainly because this environment is more of a cloak & dagger environment, thus a bit of bias because the majority of the moderators aren't into that sort of thing.

The type of gun you get depends solely on what suits you, truly. There are those around here who have modern-day guns, those who have revolvers, and even those who possess old-western style rifles. It depends, again. Its not really that big of a deal that everybody seems to make it out to be, other then battles would probably be quicker and the bunnying belt would get a whole lot tighter.. but that should be more in the writer's discretion then anything else, in all fairness.

I'd like to point out that the majority of the people here seem fair and level-headed, and would probably deal with a gun arbitrarily. Why? Because, if a gun is used in a powergaming way, it'll probably be handled by lower scores from judges, and a rather ugly smear on your reputation within the community, which leads to a greater incentive of talking to your opponent or the person your questing with through the gunshot, etc.

Another thing I've noticed is that moderators have a red-flag to the word 'gun', so passing it off in the RoG is fairly difficult. The downside to this is that moderators will also often overlook more deadly skills or tools, or something of the sort while in favor of restricting the use of a firearm. What I'd like to know is if there was a particular incident a long time ago, a battle or something, that sparked the bigotry towards guns and what not or if its just that regular 'uneasy' feeling you get when your imagining yourself looking down the barrel of a gun.

In any case, if you manage to get your hands on one I have one favor to ask; try not to screw it up for the rest of us, would ya? ;)

[Sorahn]

Easy for you to say, your character has never been shot. ;)

Sorahn, however, has been shot by Max Dirks, in the back, in the famous Bazaar War of the Red Hand. I rolled with it from an RPing standpoint and I will say Dirks played it very well, and neither of us ended up having any problems. However I have to say that our little skirmish was ended very quickly and without much contest, despite Dirks only being 2 or 3 levels higher than me at the time.

I would say that most people, me included, are very wary of guns because of how easy it is to powergame with them, and how quickly it CAN suck all the fun out of a battle. Not to say this happens all the time, but you can't deny the potential of someone aiming a gun and pulling the trigger, delivering a blow which the opponent cannot logically dodge (who can dodge bullets besides Neo and the agents?) as well as being most likely lethal or at least seriously wounding. Bam, the battle is over.

In all fairness there are many people who have owned guns on Althanas and have done quite well with them, but no one can deny the power of a firearm in the face of a sword.

Bottom line is yes there are guns allowed on Althanas, but you'll find they're generally in the hands of higher level, experienced players who have worked for them. I would say the staff puts them on par with powerful magical items... they need to be quested for (or paid dearly for), they generally require some experience to wield, and you have to be VERY careful when using them, to keep things fair and interesting.

[Reiko]

I think Althanas might be better off to handle guns differently than it currently does. Guns are currently more powerful than a magic sword or the best material. I think Sorhan's right in that if a gun wielder wanted to, he could pretty much end up winning any fight that he wanted because most people consider avoiding bullets to be powergaming without a high level skill or spell. I mean a level 2 could get a rifled revolver and could easily shoot Ki dead while even a level 0 parry or dodge her katana. I think there needs to be a way for players to handle guns that isn't "not at level 0 and you have to earn it." I don't think guns should be all powerful weapons like they are.

[Wraith]

It's been said before. It takes a lot of work, but you can get a gun.

However, like Ashiakin and Madison, my beef with guns is the fact that anything above a muzzle loader shouldn't exist on Althanas unless it came from another planet like Earth. No one on Althanas makes automatic weapons, pistols, or rifles. However, Alerar is loaded down with flintlocks and matchlocks, and maybe a blunderbuss or two. That's the sort of gun that people should go for, at least to start with. Not only are they far more inaccurate, but they also take a while to load, giving the gripers less reason to gripe (except Letho who fears the power of Alrear and her guns)

Bottom line; give a good reason and most reasonable people won't have reason to find it unreasonable. Simple enough.

[Breaker]

I think Althanas might be better off to handle guns differently than it currently does. Guns are currently more powerful than a magic sword or the best material. I think Sorhan's right in that if a gun wielder wanted to, he could pretty much end up winning any fight that he wanted because most people consider avoiding bullets to be powergaming without a high level skill or spell. I mean a level 2 could get a rifled revolver and could easily shoot Ki dead while even a level 0 parry or dodge her katana. I think there needs to be a way for players to handle guns that isn't "not at level 0 and you have to earn it." I don't think guns should be all powerful weapons like they are.

I disagree; while a gun is easy to kill someone with, they are really not easy to come by. Obtaining a firearm before level 2 or 3 these days is extremely difficult.

If you look around, I doubt you will find anyone below level 4 who was a gun (Godhand is the lowest level character who comes to mind).

Now check out a few level 4 profiles... lots of people have spells or abilities by that time that would allow them to either dodge or block bullets, or at the very least avoid getting shot for awhile. Sure it might be hard, but it's really just a test of your creativity to see if you can keep your character alive.

On the other hand, a level 4 character with a gun fighting a level 0 swordsman might seem unfair, but if you think about it, a level 4 swordsman would easily beat the crap out of any level 0 swordsman.

I really don't think of guns as being any kind of cheating or "powergaming". If you want your character to have a firearm, you have to work for it, and if you work hard enough, you deserve one. Personally, I try to get weapons that suit my characters... and if a gun is something one of my characters would go for, then I might try to get them one. My $0.02

[Letho]

I don't think that the characters on Althanas are nearly as powerless against the guns as it's usually portrayed. Even people with modern guns usually use lead bullets, and I'm quite certain lead can't pierce a half-decent damascus plate mail. There's always a headshot, of course, but whoever fired a firearm at a target from a distance (not to mention a moving target) knows that you have to have a lot of training to make those and most characters on Althanas don't spend hours and hours in a gun range. Also, there is always magic. A good mage could have some sort of barrier up his sleeve that could possibly buy him enough time to prepare that deadly fireball. And while we don't have Neo's or Agent Smith's on Althanas, I've seen some characters that can move pretty damn fast.

[Elrundir]

Guns. Pah. Weapons for the cowardly, if you ask me. No surprise that they're the outcome of Dark Elf "ingenuity". ;)

Eh, I've never really liked 'em personally, not for the whole "they're overpowered" issue (Elrundir usually just freezes up the barrel or something like that; does 'em in right nice), but more for the issue of whether or not they really belong here. Still, that view is one that was birthed when Althanas was still new, and things have changed significantly since then, so that's not really a question anymore - if we've seen travellers from other worlds (including our own), then guns aren't much of a stretch.

I figure they're handled well the way things are. Impossible to acquire for a new character, and remarkably difficult to acquire for anyone else. Besides, as Letho said, you have to be realistic with them just like you would with any weapon. It's not exactly easy to head-shot someone who's charging at you with the intent to kill, and depending on what tricks they have up their sleeves, it may be difficult to shoot them at all, for that matter. So eh, things are fine as they are.

[Wraith]

I'd like everyone to remember at this time that no Elf of Raiaera will be spared.

That is all.

[Slayer of the Rot]

As a side note, I rarely actually use my gun, against PC's. I usually don't have to, considering I can just drive my hand through most forms of armor, unless you have a deep enough wallet to afford something over delyn, and even then, if I hit a person in the chest who's wearing a mythril breastplate, the pressure will still probably shatter a few ribs.

But Letho is correct; the guns PC's currently own mostly do not have the caliber to penetrate certain forms of armor.

[Xos]

I have envisioned a diffrent sort of gun altogether. It still fires off lead bullets, but these shots are like seeds from a slingshot, and are actually very small, again, about the size of a kernal of corn.

The main attack from these guns is magic. I have the blueprints in mind for an Ether Gun. It uses magic, but is not enchanted, rather irs ammunition comes in the form of Crystalised magic, that is, Magic that has been condensed into a Crystal, These are small crystals, and they are the actualy ammo intended for these guns. A Fire Crystal could allow anyone, anyone at all to fire off fireballs. Fireballs are a valid accepted form of attack. There are defenses against fire magic, and the type of fire magic used depends on both the size of the Crystal and the type of gun.

There are other elements one could use as well. Lightning, Wind, Earth. Earth magic would be the closest to a regular gun as one could get, but these bullets cannot penetrate anything stronger than steel, and that's provided the steel isn't very thick. Theck amounts of metal, an inch or more, easily stop the Bullet. Stronger letahers, such as Dragon hide, also stop it. It wouldn't even get very deep into the skin either once it gets more than a quater inch into the skin, the Earth bullet disapates back into raw magic. In this fashion, its still a good weapon, but doesn't have the auto kill feature normal guns have.

An Ether Gun in my opinion is better than conventional weaponry, because its still effected by magic defenses. If something is immune to Ice magic, Ice bullets certainly aren't going to do anything more than irritate it. Slowere people don't have to worry, because its just like being hit by a regular spell anyway.

[AdventWings]

Ahh, the world-renown "Pea Shooters." ;)

I think the main restriction on firearms within Althanas is "Technology Level" which... is quite low.

True, the concept of a gun isn't all that complicated. True, its shots aren't all that powerful, especially against full armour. True, swords are better at killing shots since they can sever a head in a wide swing whereas only a well-placed Headshot is the closest thing to a One-Hit Wonder.

But how long did it take the humble Long Rifle to evolve from an errant-aiming Musket? That's a long time, especially if you take into consideration how long the musket existed before they began rifling the gun. If you take a look into how hard it is to "hand-make" a gun (considering that the only place with enough technological potential to Mass-Produce weapons of any kind is Alerar) you'd know why there aren't more guns on Althanas.

As for "modern" firearms (semi-auto Glock look-alikes and Beretta 92FS variants) that require small moving parts and fine craftsmanship, well... Try making one from scratch. Given the tech level much of Althanas has, making a half-ton Horse Cleaver sword is a hell lot easier than making a revolver.

You can have a gun, provided that the design is justified and you've proven yourself that you won't powergame. And as I saw it written somewhere before...

"If you prove you can be truthful with small things, you can be truthful with the Big Things."

:)