View Full Version : Do You Feel GP Rewards Are Balanced?
Today's poll question involves receiving GP here on Althanas -
Do you believe that GP rewards are balanced? For the amount of time you put in to participate in a battle or quest, do you feel amply rewarded at the end? For you old-timers, has the value of your GP risen or dropped as time has gone on (can you buy more or less with 1,000 GP now than you could 2 years ago)? Would you like to see more GP circulating on Althanas?
Amaril Torrun
08-07-07, 10:59 AM
I haven't personally tried buying anything lately, but things seem to cost more nowadays than they did a few years ago. Then again, there are many people who don't even use their gp, ever. I'm not sure if it is balanced or not though.
It may be more helpful in the poll if you include two options for unbalanced, whether GP awards are too generous or whether GP awards are too stingy.
Undoubtedly, there has been quite a bit of inflation since I first came to Althanas, but I can't really speak on the compensation side of things as I've been out of the loop for a while.
The Barbarian
08-07-07, 11:46 AM
Yea, I'm not so sure either. I haven't had a chance to purchase much of anything, since I'm usually broke. But even then, some items cost a wee bit too much it would seem.
I think we need more gold for our efforts.
Then make an effort to earn gold. Don't go questing for a super awesome sword or something and expect for the judge to give you an additional 1000 GP or something on top of the spoils. If you come up with a reasonable IC reason for GP rewards, judges will seldom deny it. But we shouldn't hand out gold offhandedly.
I think that the GP rewards are currently quite fitting. If you want to focus on amassing some, you can do so and come out from quests with rather large sums, at least equivalent to those you can earn in battles. If you don't want to bother with it, you can always earn your items while questing.
As for the Bazaar prices, there's probably some inflation, but it's not always a bad thing. I remember Shyam buying a revolver for like less then two thousand a while back, something that probably shouldn't have happened.
I think the Bazaar needs some greater attraction. Sales on certain types of goods, exclusive items, etc... recently, I donated all of my GP to the House of Sora. While I'd like to say it was solely out of the goodness of my heart, the honest truth is that I don't have - and don't foresee having - any real use for GP.
The Special Auction is a good idea and, in my opinion, is a step in the right direction. Perhaps I'll go after something in there at some point...
That said, this response doesn't have much to do with the poll. In answer to that, I think GP rewards are pretty well balanced, but GP usefulness isn't.
Amaril Torrun
08-07-07, 01:01 PM
I agree with Atzar.
I agree with Atzar.
Intelligent people are awesome. :D
DarkStorm
08-07-07, 01:26 PM
I think the Bazaar needs some greater attraction. Sales on certain types of goods, exclusive items, etc... recently, I donated all of my GP to the House of Sora. While I'd like to say it was solely out of the goodness of my heart, the honest truth is that I don't have - and don't foresee having - any real use for GP.
The Special Auction is a good idea and, in my opinion, is a step in the right direction. Perhaps I'll go after something in there at some point...
That said, this response doesn't have much to do with the poll. In answer to that, I think GP rewards are pretty well balanced, but GP usefulness isn't.
Took the words right out of my mouth, (and expressed them far better than I'd have done.)
GP is probably given out in good proportions- I don't know about that, since I haven't been here for that long. However, the Bazaar does seem... well, not very interesting....
I know this isn't a thread for suggestions about the bazaar, but since GP is directly related to it, I suppose it isn't that far off topic.... In my opinion, the bazaar needs a guide- It's hard to gather any idea how much you are looking at spending before going in, so if you don't have enough for what you were after, you're not only out of luck, you've wasted your time too.
I'm also a bit confused as far as what the Bazaar offers. Guns are listed in the items thread in the bazaar, but I have also been told that you can't buy guns, etc etc. Basically... Bazaar = Confusion to me.
Took the words right out of my mouth, (and expressed them far better than I'd have done.)
GP is probably given out in good proportions- I don't know about that, since I haven't been here for that long. However, the Bazaar does seem... well, not very interesting....
I know this isn't a thread for suggestions about the bazaar, but since GP is directly related to it, I suppose it isn't that far off topic.... In my opinion, the bazaar needs a guide- It's hard to gather any idea how much you are looking at spending before going in, so if you don't have enough for what you were after, you're not only out of luck, you've wasted your time too.
I'm also a bit confused as far as what the Bazaar offers. Guns are listed in the items thread in the bazaar, but I have also been told that you can't buy guns, etc etc. Basically... Bazaar = Confusion to me.
You CAN buy guns. I promise.
They're just hella expensive, and wear down kinda fast. If you want something of better quality, then you have to get it upgraded, which is even MORE expensive.
And as expensive as they are, my personal opinion is that they should be even more expensive. We have too many gunslingers on a Fantasy world.
Kially Gaith
08-07-07, 02:35 PM
Haha, anyone who doesn't like gold is DEFINATELY available to give it to cute children, namely Kially.
I'm quite a fan of the gold system, the GP is going to play more of a function in my characters advancement than levelling.
No qualms of my own over it.
You CAN buy guns. I promise.
They're just hella expensive, and wear down kinda fast. If you want something of better quality, then you have to get it upgraded, which is even MORE expensive.
And as expensive as they are, my personal opinion is that they should be even more expensive. We have too many gunslingers on a Fantasy world.Keep in mind that you can buy only the simplest of guns in the Bazaar, like flintlocks and muskets, and they still cost a small fortune as they should. And we all know those kind of guns were hardly reliable.
Also, everybody should keep in mind that Bazaar wasn't really made to be interesting and appealing like the regions or something. In fact, up until about a year ago, a lot of Bazaar threads were OOC. And there's nothing wrong with that, because Bazaar is basically a place where you can trade some of your money for something you don't have the time to quest for. To make it more interesting, Bazaar should probably evolve into a full IC place, where you roleplay like in every other IC part of the site, but that would defeat its purpose. If you have to make an extensive thread about buying something and still part with some of your money, then what are you really paying for?
In my opinion, the bazaar needs a guide- It's hard to gather any idea how much you are looking at spending before going in, so if you don't have enough for what you were after, you're not only out of luck, you've wasted your time too.But isn't that pretty much what happens in real life? You seldom know what the store has to offer before you step inside and ask around. If you feel that roleplaying such a thing is a waste of time, you can always describe your request in one or two sentences.
See, there's a difference between "utilitarian" and "not very interesting". Nobody is going to read through Bazaar threads out of genuine curiosity like they might somebody's quest; we all know that.
That said, there should be something that the Bazaar can do to give it some attention. As it stands, I could crank out a 10 post solo in a few days to get a wand that could also be bought in the Bazaar. The major difference is that I gain EXP and GP along with the item in the quest. In the Bazaar, I don't gain any EXP, I lose GP, and I get the item.
Which is more appealing? Essentially, the sole advantage for the Bazaar is that you can use it to bypass the sizable judging queue that we have right now. Therefore, it would be a bit more time-efficient in the end. But even if my quest only scores 40-50, I still just got a healthy chunk of EXP that can go towards leveling up - at which point, I can gain new skills, which are potentially much more influential than any items could be.
I don't think interest is the problem with it; rather, I don't think it's useful enough. GP takes the fall as an effect of that, because that's the only thing in which GP plays a role.
Kially Gaith
08-07-07, 05:08 PM
Anyone who doesn't like gold is welcome to throw it at me. I shall dance like a monkey and attempt to catch it.
But, put seriously, GP is a way for characters like myself who won't fight (Hence have a problem getting EXP easy.) to advance themselves. So, if you're a none combatant, you have a way to make your character better. ^_^
Anyone who doesn't like gold is welcome to throw it at me. I shall dance like a monkey and attempt to catch it.
But, put seriously, GP is a way for characters like myself who won't fight (Hence have a problem getting EXP easy.) to advance themselves. So, if you're a none combatant, you have a way to make your character better. ^_^
You don't have to fight to make your character better. This character has participated in only two official battles (although plenty of combat in quests), and has improved loads from when I registered her.
I even have one character who CAN'T fight, and she's a level one, ahead of my other four, including the one that was MADE for combat. You can always quest for cool items, even if it's non-combat.
Kially Gaith
08-07-07, 05:28 PM
It's just a point, that GP has a benefit to such characters, is all. ^_^
That said, there should be something that the Bazaar can do to give it some attention. As it stands, I could crank out a 10 post solo in a few days to get a wand that could also be bought in the Bazaar. The major difference is that I gain EXP and GP along with the item in the quest. In the Bazaar, I don't gain any EXP, I lose GP, and I get the item.
Which is more appealing? Essentially, the sole advantage for the Bazaar is that you can use it to bypass the sizable judging queue that we have right now. Therefore, it would be a bit more time-efficient in the end. But even if my quest only scores 40-50, I still just got a healthy chunk of EXP that can go towards leveling up - at which point, I can gain new skills, which are potentially much more influential than any items could be.But Althanas' main purpose isn't chasing GP and EXP, Atzar. We are all here (or at least we should be here) mainly to write stories about our characters and improve ourselves as writers first, and gain the EXP/GP/items second. Althanas is maybe created to resemble a RPG with EXP and GP, but if that's the main reason why someone's here for, I assure you that by the time they get to level one, they'd be bored out of their skulls. Because of that, you can make a decent, 10-post solo about getting a wand and not only save yourself the money, but also gain some as well as experience. But is that what you really want to do, write a pretty decent story about getting a certain item just for the sake of getting the item for free? And then do it again for the next item? And the next one? Why not buy the item at the Bazaar and make a pretty awesome thread about using it to burn someone's face off? ;)
My point is that Bazaar saves you time and allows you to direct your effort in something that's possibly more important for the development of your character. And you pay for that with your gold. Simple. Now, I'm not against making it somehow more attractive, but I don't think we should overly complicate it either. Sometimes you just need to buy a sword.
Kially Gaith
08-07-07, 05:51 PM
I made my Bazaar thread into somewhat of a story instead of "Go in! Buy. Laters."
Instead, I made it a learning experience for him, so that the character not only gains the item in question, but a level of 'real life' experience for him to use in the real world.
Elrundir
08-07-07, 05:51 PM
I think GP rewards are quite well balanced as they are now. Of course, I haven't done much Bazaar shopping myself in a long time; one thread with Christina since I re-joined, though from that I can at least add that the prices I saw there didn't stand out in my mind as being too cheap or too expensive, so I'll give my thumbs-up there. At any rate, insofar as the rewards we get from quests, it seems like you get a fair chunk for the effort you've put into it. Sure, it'll take quite a few quests to save up for a powerful and/or magical item, but that is as it should be.
As for spicing up the Bazaar... well, I can see both points of the debate quite clearly. Letho does raise a good point that making a bunch of threads with the sole intention of getting an item at the end of each one (which might not even be a guaranteed award, depending on the quality of the item and of the thread), simply to avoid going to the Bazaar and paying for them, is a tedious and tiring idea. Still, I'd imagine the same can be said for having to do a number of threads in order to save up enough money to buy said item at the Bazaar. You are of course correct that our main motivation here should be the writing and the character development and so on, but as you said, "sometimes you just need to buy a sword." Replace 'sword' with any given item, and you've got the problem: our motivation may be the writing itself, but sometimes we just want that bloody item! ;) Of course, the real question then is whether the prices for items are balanced with the rewards you get, and... huh... I guess that leads us back to where this poll started. ^^;;
...anyhoo, I'm obviously starting to go in circles, so I'll stop now. I'm not really trying to condemn or suggest anything. Taking steps toward spicing up the Bazaar would always be a good thing, though. The special auctions are a really nifty idea in that regard!
Artifex Felicis
08-07-07, 06:01 PM
I love my special auction. =^-^=
Keeping in check so far with the thread, I believe that they are balanced, but people are hanging onto old roots now. We sell magical items. And not for THAT much either. Comparatively, you could buy yourself a prosthetic, prehensile tail for cheaper to questing for it and far quicker. I'd only put that at about 4000. It all depends on what you ask for, I can think up the rough price for it.
Kially Gaith
08-07-07, 06:30 PM
The special auctions are rather something, I really enjoy it. It'd be nice to introduce a 'Auction House' sub forum in the Bazaar. To allow players to make their own auctions selling items or materials they've found, and an admin run auction of NPCs for special tasteful items.
The special auctions are rather something, I really enjoy it. It'd be nice to introduce a 'Auction House' sub forum in the Bazaar. To allow players to make their own auctions selling items or materials they've found, and an admin run auction of NPCs for special tasteful items.This was actually what the Auction House used to be before (and what it can still be used for, I think). I remember buying my pegasus from one of the members. However, it was seldom ever used, since most people are keen on holding on to the items they earned and they rarely have an excess of items in their inventory.
Kially Gaith
08-07-07, 07:03 PM
What a shame! It's a great concept being unused. Consider that I will definately be selling things in it soon. Most quest spoils like weapons will be useless to my character.
Elijah_Morendale
08-07-07, 07:22 PM
The auctions are still a good idea... Like, for example, one of these days I'm going to end up requesting a really sweet spoil, only to upgrade to a bitchin' one in a few quests when I smack myself in the face for not putting those extra few touches on it the first time. And I know I'm not going to need to be lugging two whatevers around, so there's always the option of selling it off to another character.
Destrudo
08-07-07, 07:29 PM
I Plan on thoroughly using the Auction house, all in good time.
I suppose the gold system is balanced on a pretty fair scale depending on how you look at it. As Letho said, it’s more about the writing then the rewards, and if you're here for just rewards it'll probably be short-lived. However, I have a question. When completing a quest, is there a specified amount of gold to be allotted to a character based on their level, or is it purely circumstantial?
For example, say a power group was created to smuggle and sell weapons about Althanas. Just that. In a thread concerning a mass shipment of weapons say grenades, rifles, and various other types of guns to an army to support say.. a civil war in Corone, maybe? These weapons definitely aren't cheap to make, hide, and transport. So, because of this, this power group will be asking for fair compensation for their trouble.. say about 550,000 GP? Awfully high number huh? Albeit that there isn't much to spend GP on Althanas without coming up with the idea yourself, its still fair compensation.
Think about it. Properly handled, a smuggling operation to fund a war needs money to bribe custom houses, purchase vital intelligence needed to duck local law enforcement, and even buy the raw materials to make the weapons or allocate them in the first place. 550,000 Gold spread over maybe 3 different threads from the work of say about 6 different people? That’s roughly 91, 666 GP per gun runner should the PG decide to split it evenly. If a judge came across a number this high and the effort put into such a deal, how would they react to it? Are judges the one who solely appoint the amount of gold in the first place? Or are players allowed to have some say in how much their time is worth?
The short answer is 'no'.
The more elaborate answer is still 'no'. On one hand, gold is pretty much equivalent to the effort put into the quest. There is a set number of gold pieces determined by the formula and then there's what judge deems appropriate, taking into consideration the player's requests. I can tell you a number of problems with your theory. Most importantly, if you plan to make such a huge profit from smuggling guns, then you're obviously not thinking realistically. For such a profit, you would have to have a bunch of idiots for buyers if they are about to pay 550,000 GP for a couple of crates of muskets and whatnot. For 550,000 one can buy a fleet of ships and go buy the guns for himself and still have money to spare.
I'd tell you what I'd do as a judge if I came across such a request. I'd explain that you get the money, but after paying all the bribes, all the connections you needed to pull while smuggling through such cargo, after paying off the crew you'd need for such an operation, you're left with 2000 GP. Or something around that number.
The main idea of Althanas is to keep things balanced so it's fun to play for everyone. If that wasn't the case, everybody would go slay a dragon and retrieve 100,000 GP from his cave.
Sighter Tnailog
08-20-07, 05:55 PM
Letho, I think there's more to Saxon's idea than what you suggest. First, he's not talking about mere muskets -- he's talking about the services provided by risk-takers willing to risk their necks to deliver scarce goods. And beyond muskets, he's also talking about high-end Alerarian rifles and primitive forms of explosive ordnance.
The reason why I would regard it necessary to diminish rewards would be very different, however. To pay bribes and grease the skids you'd need cash before you got your payment, not after. If you didn't have the capital to invest in your initial engagement, it wouldn't be fair to claim the fruit without sowing the seed.
Breaker
08-20-07, 07:18 PM
Letho, I think there's more to Saxon's idea than what you suggest. First, he's not talking about mere muskets -- he's talking about the services provided by risk-takers willing to risk their necks to deliver scarce goods. And beyond muskets, he's also talking about high-end Alerarian rifles and primitive forms of explosive ordnance.
Although I certainly could be mistaken, I seem to remember Wraith saying that the best firearms you'll find in Alerar are muskets, flintlocks, blunderbusses and the like.
I'm pretty stern on that. Anything slightly above can be considered experimental, but nothing like automatic rifles, or even normal rifles can be considered native to Alerar. They're alien technologies.
Not saying you couldn't get one, or even one in Alerar. But they're not really being produced. One can just assume some really nice gun manufacturers are throwing their wares into some sort of time portal.
Breaker
08-20-07, 07:38 PM
*sings and dances the time warp*
Most importantly, if you plan to make such a huge profit from smuggling guns, then you're obviously not thinking realistically. For such a profit, you would have to have a bunch of idiots for buyers if they are about to pay 550,000 GP for a couple of crates of muskets and whatnot.
I apologize, I think everybody got the wrong idea here when I labeled a price for weapons and didn't specify the type of weapons. I had forgotten that everybody has a different approach to Althanas, and that some tend to think a bit differently than I do. When I referred to a gun runner as an example and the price of 550,000 GP for such weapons, I was making reference to assault rifles, pistols, grenades, etc. And with those sorts of weapons on the market, I thought 550,000 GP was still a little too cheap for what I had in mind. But this isn't the point, it was an example, and again, I apologize for the confusion.
I'd tell you what I'd do as a judge if I came across such a request. I'd explain that you get the money, but after paying all the bribes, all the connections you needed to pull while smuggling through such cargo, after paying off the crew you'd need for such an operation, you're left with 2000 GP. Or something around that number.
That's a little harsh given the circumstances. Three threads, six people, working full time for one deal, and that's all they get? I'm beginning to understand that people are a little more hard-nosed when it comes to gold then it comes to items or skills. A person can walk away from a thread with a couple skills such as invisibility, the ability to shoot flame out of your fingers, or even grab arrows if one were so inclined. But if you're a merchant looking for payment in gold to keep on doing what your doing, you're probably fucked. My point is, that if one were to come here with a merchant character, an actual merchant, they'd find themselves staring at the proverbial glass ceiling that is bullet-proof and not even be out the door with their first sale yet. All I'm saying is that before kicking the idea to the curb, keep an open mind, and try to see it from another point of view. Not everything ends with the nuclear option.
The main idea of Althanas is to keep things balanced so it's fun to play for everyone.
Agreed. But on the same token, there needs to be a trade-off. There are unfair parts to Althanas, and sometimes they're brushed under the rug for the sake of harmony. For instance, in a battle, if JoeBagofDonuts is say level 9 and his opponent is level 5, Joe already has an innate advantage over his enemy. It may not be recognized by both players at first, but when it comes down to the judging, I've seen some Judges even 'remind' Joe of his superiority in case he was a bit soft on his opponent and wrote the battle down to his opponent's level.
Now taken that fact right there, one could argue that the level system is unbalanced. If one of lower status (say level 0) were to complain of such a thing, I'm positive that one of the veterans would walk in, tell them how hard it was themselves to climb to the top, and then tell them to suck it up. Because of this little quandry, there needs to be an understanding. Between both mods and players. From my example about the gun runner, half of you thought I was talking about muskets when really I was referring to modern-day weaponry! I don't know how exactly to put this, but we seem to be running into a problem when we run everything in theory with an arbitrary system on top of it. Some things need to be clarified.
He's also talking about high-end Alerarian rifles and primitive forms of explosive ordnance.
Refer to above.
The reason why I would regard it necessary to diminish rewards would be very different, however. To pay bribes and grease the skids you'd need cash before you got your payment, not after. If you didn't have the capital to invest in your initial engagement, it wouldn't be fair to claim the fruit without sowing the seed.
Excellent point. But, as gun runners, or deciding to be gun runners, there was probably a start. Maybe it's dealing revolvers on the street for chump change, or perhaps a little something more, but there is a start. Providing military arms to fuel a war (possibly even both sides) is a merchant of death's wet dream. I suppose it's a little murky when your dealing in theory about something you couldn't see yourself doing in the first place, but by this time a PG dealing with such weapons would probably have the financial backing from several previous deals to take on such a job. Some might even argue that in dealing with something so illegal, there probably was a retainer involved in order to 'grease the wheels'. After all, if the leader of a country is desperate and looking to crime for that extra push to win a war, chances are that he and the people around him have looked at all the angles it would require to get the weapons through the door and have the money ready for some unforseen problems.
I'm pretty stern on that. Anything slightly above can be considered experimental, but nothing like automatic rifles, or even normal rifles can be considered native to Alerar. They're alien technologies.
Not saying you couldn't get one, or even one in Alerar. But they're not really being produced. One can just assume some really nice gun manufacturers are throwing their wares into some sort of time portal.
I'm sorry for the confusion, Wraith, but when it comes to Alerar, personally, I'd look else where for weapons. I was referring to modern-day weaponry, and as you said, you don't really possess the technology capable of such a thing, and not many businesses will spend time dicking around trying to re-model old weaponry to get it out the door and into the hands of a buyer requesting for something more advanced.
Also, I referred to these gun runners as making the weaponry from scratch if they needed to, and given some of the people on Althanas already possess weapons of such technology, it's fair to say that somebody could just as easily raise a weapon's factory from the ground up and make them from scratch, with or without a country's consent. Also, I've seen players here who have summoned characters out of a certain war era involving the Germans, trenches, and more, so fishing weapons through some sort of time distortion isn't exactly as infeasiable as you make it out to be.
JimmyVsn
08-25-07, 02:57 AM
Hi all!
My greatest gratitude for all the welcoming I received!
Anyway, it's good to be here!
Thanks, again and talk to you all later!
Jim
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