Skie and Avery
10-28-07, 01:24 PM
Normally I don't make movie threads, but after getting home from the theatre last night, I found I had a lot on my mind after the latest installment of Darren Lynn Bousman's horror franchise. First let it be said that I adore this series. I realize a lot of people think it went down the tube after the first or second movie, and that now it's turning into another Rocky. I realize that your claims are probably just, and that's just fine. This isn't a thread to rave over the movies, or defend them. Whether or not Jigsaw's message of "Cherish Your Life" strikes a chord with you, or whether or not you care, trust me, I don't give a rat's ass. What I want to know is how you, the people who have seen the movie or are willing to look in the spoiler anyway, feel about the way this movie portrayed and played with liquid time, and how it relates to the way we, as Althanians do the same. Walking out of the theatre, there was a lot of conversation among people who didn't get it or needed their friends to explain to them what the FUCK just happened, because it left them wondering when, where and what was going on.
How much liquid time is too much? Can your cup overfloweth?
Let's start out this spoiler in grand scale. We'll go through the movie. I'm not going to write out everything, just trying to really bring focus to the liquid time and how it jumps around in this one.
It starts out with Jigsaw's autopsy. We saw him die at the end of Saw III. They found his body, and we assume they found the bodies of Amanda, the Doctor, and what about the Doctor's husband? He killed Jigsaw. Did he get taken in? That isn't answered right now, because as Jigsaw's stomach contents are examined, we find a wax-coated tape. Detective Hoffman is called in, and the tape is played. The games, though the killer is dead, have begun.
The next scene is a prearranged game. Who arranged it? Jigsaw is dead. Two men, through a pulley system, are chained together. One has his eyes sewn shut, one has his lips. ((Mad props for the Ghauntyrr'Stra effect!)) The key to the lock for the mute man is around the blind man's neck, but when the mute starts to make whimpering noises and come forward, the blind man, assuming it's his killer, panics. The two men are freaking out, and trigger the mechanical pulley, which begins to pull in the chains. With this device, should the men not free themselves in the alloted time, the pulley will break their necks. Pay attention to the face of the survivor.
The police, with Rigg, who was always with Kerry and Eric in the other movies, finds Kerry's body in the Angel trap, crawling with rats. Rigg is distraught, leaves as two FBI Investigators enter the scene. Though it's thought that the trap is Amanda Young's, the investigators say she couldn't have lifted Kerry, who weighs more than she does, up so high without help. A search for the second accomplice to Jigsaw begins.
That night, Rigg is attacked in his home, shortly after his wife leaves to go stay with her mother. She had asked Rigg to go with her. He refused. When he wakes up from the attack, he's still in his home, but now his home has been turned into a testing ground. The first tape is both a test for Rigg and a trap/test for a woman who whored out her daughter, with Rigg being an element of her own trap.
As he leaves his home, Rigg finds clues which lead him to a hotel. Rigg is set to task by Jigsaw to "Feel what I feel."
Jigsaw leaves a clue for Rigg - go back to where it began. We have a flashback of Rigg as a younger officer, trying to talk to a little girl who is suffering abuse at the hands of her father. The girl seems about to confess, when the father and mother enter the scene and she clams up. The father places his hand on Rigg's shoulder and it ends up that Rigg decks him right in the kisser. Rigg escapes prosecution - in a scene that we see in the flashback that shows a lawyer... one Mr. Art Blank, the mute man from the second scene. The plot thickens!
Present time, FBI arrives at Rigg's home. They suspect him as Jigsaw's accomplice! After all, everyone around him died, while he has survived. All on the walls of the house, with pictures pasted up of Brenda, the chick with the knife, there is one picture that stands out on each wall. A picture of Jigsaw's ex-wife.
Meanwhile, Rigg has gone back to the school where he'd questioned the little girl. More traps, another test for Rigg.
The FBI and police get there, more traps.
This whole time, there have been scenes of Strahm interrogating Jill, but nothing has come up until now. The interogation scene and flashback reveal what really started John on this purpose.
John's first trap and subject - Cecil are shown.
Current time, Rigg reaches the Gideon factory, the first building John built, the building he was going to name his son after. Agent Strahm enters the factory not long afterwards. As Officer Rigg and the agent move through the factory, we see Jeff, the protagonist of Saw III moving through the building, in his tests. From the background noise, it would seem that all this is happening at the same time as Saw III, but wait.... at the start of the movie, we found Jigsaw dead....WHAT?
We find Eric Matthews, Detective Hoffman and Art Blank all in one room, each in their own test. We know from earlier scenes that Matthews has been Jigsaw's prisoner for 6 months, and his trap is elaborate. He's standing on a block of ice, which is keeping him from being hung. However, if he steps off the ice or it melts too much, a scale will tip, bringing electrified water to Detective Hoffman's feet, killing him. A wire is attatched to the door marked "final test". If the wire is tripped, two huge blocks of ice will fall. In the movie, Rigg knew he had 90 minutes on the clock for Detective Matthew's to free himself. Art Blanc reveals that if the 90 minutes counts down and no one comes through the final test door, everyone in the room can walk free. Rigg's release of his obsession to kill everyone is what the test is dependent on. Art gives Eric a gun and a single bullet. Matthews loads it, and they see Rigg coming through the door to save his friends and Art. Eric shoots at Rigg in vain, but once the door is open, the two blocks swing down, smashing Eric Matthew's head into liquified Detective. Rigg shoots Art, thinking he's Jigsaw's accomplice. The final tape plays, revealing that Rigg's final test was to not rush forward, to let people save themselves. It reveals that he failed at life, lulz. Then we see Detective Strahm confront Jeff who JUST killed Jigsaw, wut? LoL. Detective Strahm kills Jeff. Okay... WHO IS GOING TO SAVE JEFF'S LITTLE GIRL NOW? ZOMG!
Rigg is laying on the floor, wounded, and we see Detective Hoffman NOT get electrocuted. Instead, he stands, revealing he'd never really been strapped in. OMG he's Jigsaw's other apprentice! He leaves Rigg to die, stating "GAME OVER." ((Ring any bells, anyone who's seen the end of Saw II?)) and closes and seals a door.
The autopsy scene is played again, revealing that it in fact happened AFTER the events of the movie, because Saw IV and Saw III run concurrently. The first tape plays again, and it tells Detective Hoffman that the game has just begun, that he will be tested.
End Movie.
Okay, I'm trying to quell my excitement for Saw V now, but the point is that the sudden play in the Saw series with liquid time, both in flashbacks and tossing around the ordering of scenes was really confusing. Even though playing the autopsy scene at the end again was enough to explain, it still took a moment to set in. The confusion nearly murdered to movie for me, though now I think if I were to watch it again, it'd be utterly brilliant. On Althanas, we use liquid time a lot, which can confuse the noobs. I see a prevailant number of threads having to do with the question of multiple threads and what is and isn't allowed, so it's obviously a subject that's on people's minds a lot.
For those of you that's seen the movie, do you think that Saw IV used too much? Would you jump around that much in an Althanas thread? Can the confusion of unexplained liquid time be used to make a thread or storyline more suspenseful until the moment all is explained, or do you feel that perhaps, not feeding your audience enough comfort information is the fastest way to derail the love train?
Live or Die - Make Your Choice.
How much liquid time is too much? Can your cup overfloweth?
Let's start out this spoiler in grand scale. We'll go through the movie. I'm not going to write out everything, just trying to really bring focus to the liquid time and how it jumps around in this one.
It starts out with Jigsaw's autopsy. We saw him die at the end of Saw III. They found his body, and we assume they found the bodies of Amanda, the Doctor, and what about the Doctor's husband? He killed Jigsaw. Did he get taken in? That isn't answered right now, because as Jigsaw's stomach contents are examined, we find a wax-coated tape. Detective Hoffman is called in, and the tape is played. The games, though the killer is dead, have begun.
The next scene is a prearranged game. Who arranged it? Jigsaw is dead. Two men, through a pulley system, are chained together. One has his eyes sewn shut, one has his lips. ((Mad props for the Ghauntyrr'Stra effect!)) The key to the lock for the mute man is around the blind man's neck, but when the mute starts to make whimpering noises and come forward, the blind man, assuming it's his killer, panics. The two men are freaking out, and trigger the mechanical pulley, which begins to pull in the chains. With this device, should the men not free themselves in the alloted time, the pulley will break their necks. Pay attention to the face of the survivor.
The police, with Rigg, who was always with Kerry and Eric in the other movies, finds Kerry's body in the Angel trap, crawling with rats. Rigg is distraught, leaves as two FBI Investigators enter the scene. Though it's thought that the trap is Amanda Young's, the investigators say she couldn't have lifted Kerry, who weighs more than she does, up so high without help. A search for the second accomplice to Jigsaw begins.
That night, Rigg is attacked in his home, shortly after his wife leaves to go stay with her mother. She had asked Rigg to go with her. He refused. When he wakes up from the attack, he's still in his home, but now his home has been turned into a testing ground. The first tape is both a test for Rigg and a trap/test for a woman who whored out her daughter, with Rigg being an element of her own trap.
As he leaves his home, Rigg finds clues which lead him to a hotel. Rigg is set to task by Jigsaw to "Feel what I feel."
Jigsaw leaves a clue for Rigg - go back to where it began. We have a flashback of Rigg as a younger officer, trying to talk to a little girl who is suffering abuse at the hands of her father. The girl seems about to confess, when the father and mother enter the scene and she clams up. The father places his hand on Rigg's shoulder and it ends up that Rigg decks him right in the kisser. Rigg escapes prosecution - in a scene that we see in the flashback that shows a lawyer... one Mr. Art Blank, the mute man from the second scene. The plot thickens!
Present time, FBI arrives at Rigg's home. They suspect him as Jigsaw's accomplice! After all, everyone around him died, while he has survived. All on the walls of the house, with pictures pasted up of Brenda, the chick with the knife, there is one picture that stands out on each wall. A picture of Jigsaw's ex-wife.
Meanwhile, Rigg has gone back to the school where he'd questioned the little girl. More traps, another test for Rigg.
The FBI and police get there, more traps.
This whole time, there have been scenes of Strahm interrogating Jill, but nothing has come up until now. The interogation scene and flashback reveal what really started John on this purpose.
John's first trap and subject - Cecil are shown.
Current time, Rigg reaches the Gideon factory, the first building John built, the building he was going to name his son after. Agent Strahm enters the factory not long afterwards. As Officer Rigg and the agent move through the factory, we see Jeff, the protagonist of Saw III moving through the building, in his tests. From the background noise, it would seem that all this is happening at the same time as Saw III, but wait.... at the start of the movie, we found Jigsaw dead....WHAT?
We find Eric Matthews, Detective Hoffman and Art Blank all in one room, each in their own test. We know from earlier scenes that Matthews has been Jigsaw's prisoner for 6 months, and his trap is elaborate. He's standing on a block of ice, which is keeping him from being hung. However, if he steps off the ice or it melts too much, a scale will tip, bringing electrified water to Detective Hoffman's feet, killing him. A wire is attatched to the door marked "final test". If the wire is tripped, two huge blocks of ice will fall. In the movie, Rigg knew he had 90 minutes on the clock for Detective Matthew's to free himself. Art Blanc reveals that if the 90 minutes counts down and no one comes through the final test door, everyone in the room can walk free. Rigg's release of his obsession to kill everyone is what the test is dependent on. Art gives Eric a gun and a single bullet. Matthews loads it, and they see Rigg coming through the door to save his friends and Art. Eric shoots at Rigg in vain, but once the door is open, the two blocks swing down, smashing Eric Matthew's head into liquified Detective. Rigg shoots Art, thinking he's Jigsaw's accomplice. The final tape plays, revealing that Rigg's final test was to not rush forward, to let people save themselves. It reveals that he failed at life, lulz. Then we see Detective Strahm confront Jeff who JUST killed Jigsaw, wut? LoL. Detective Strahm kills Jeff. Okay... WHO IS GOING TO SAVE JEFF'S LITTLE GIRL NOW? ZOMG!
Rigg is laying on the floor, wounded, and we see Detective Hoffman NOT get electrocuted. Instead, he stands, revealing he'd never really been strapped in. OMG he's Jigsaw's other apprentice! He leaves Rigg to die, stating "GAME OVER." ((Ring any bells, anyone who's seen the end of Saw II?)) and closes and seals a door.
The autopsy scene is played again, revealing that it in fact happened AFTER the events of the movie, because Saw IV and Saw III run concurrently. The first tape plays again, and it tells Detective Hoffman that the game has just begun, that he will be tested.
End Movie.
Okay, I'm trying to quell my excitement for Saw V now, but the point is that the sudden play in the Saw series with liquid time, both in flashbacks and tossing around the ordering of scenes was really confusing. Even though playing the autopsy scene at the end again was enough to explain, it still took a moment to set in. The confusion nearly murdered to movie for me, though now I think if I were to watch it again, it'd be utterly brilliant. On Althanas, we use liquid time a lot, which can confuse the noobs. I see a prevailant number of threads having to do with the question of multiple threads and what is and isn't allowed, so it's obviously a subject that's on people's minds a lot.
For those of you that's seen the movie, do you think that Saw IV used too much? Would you jump around that much in an Althanas thread? Can the confusion of unexplained liquid time be used to make a thread or storyline more suspenseful until the moment all is explained, or do you feel that perhaps, not feeding your audience enough comfort information is the fastest way to derail the love train?
Live or Die - Make Your Choice.