A bit of unofficial Althanas research

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

Before I start, this poll isn't sanctioned by staff, and shouldn't be taken as an official endorsement to any of the options specifically held in this poll. This is purely just me polling opinion of the member base.

The question is this: what is Althanas, to you? What do you want from Althanas?

A simple vote will suffice, but if you wish to explain your choice feel free :)

[Amari]

honestly, I feel the third option feels a little aggressive

My vote is other;
An accepting site that uses RPG elements for you to create a character. It offers little limitations on creativity and accepts writing of all styles, it has a core base of users who will help those willing to improve their writing.

[Garron]

I agree with Amari on that one.

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

honestly, I feel the third option feels a little aggressive

My vote is other;
An accepting site that uses RPG elements for you to create a character. It offers little limitations on creativity and accepts writing of all styles, it has a core base of users who will help those willing to improve their writing.

Not sure why you think it would be aggressive. At the end of the day, some people just prefer to write at their own pace and level without the need for full scale feedback to have fun. That's all it's getting at, really.

[Garron]

It is kind of aggressive, Shin.

Personally I enjoy the RPG elements of creating and advancing a character within a massive world where there is creative freedom. There are so many aspects of Althanas that I enjoy and have utilized myself.

I enjoy the feedback to improve my writing in whatever way it comes. Also to create and immerse myself in story threads/participate in open threads.

There have been times where I’ve just wanted to lock on and shoot for an achievement.

There have been times I didn’t want to write at all and instead wanted to spend hours reading threads. There are a lot of talented writers here, and entertaining stories to enjoy.

There have been times I just wanted to hang out and participate in games, Vignettes and BS in chat.

There’s been times I’ve just wanted to give feedback in Workshops.

It just goes on and on…

I enjoy and love every aspect of Althanas. It’s difficult to choose just one and say “Oh, that’s the only reason I have made Althanas my home years ago.” It doesn’t make any sense, since I enjoy every aspect of Althanas and am grateful for it. Why does it matter why people enjoy and participate here, as long as they enjoy Althanas in whatever way they do.

[Philomel]

Thanks for the feedback Garron. So would you say you are all three/four at different times? If so I am too sometimes. I get that entirely.

I don't believe Shinsou meant for it to come out as aggressive.

[Garron]

Yeah, Phi. I'm spread across the board on this poll. I'd have to choose every poll choice. I don't agree with the backseat thing, though. I enjoy every aspect of Althanas.

[Garron]

Sitting here thinking on it, the "quality of writing taking a back seat" thing doesn't really exist on Althanas.

Even if people are pumping out speed threads with fly-by-seat-of-your-posts stuff, they are still gaining a little writing experience by writing with others, reading threads of others, and making mental notes on improvement on some level.

Quality of writing taking a back seat is just ridiculous.

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

I suppose i'll go fuck myself, then. :rolleyes:

Edited the poll option to be less aggressive and demeaning.

[Garron]

Was just posting my thoughts, Shin.

A poll is asking the thoughts of the community. Some may agree, others may not. Ultimately your poll was getting the results you were looking for.

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

Was just posting my thoughts, Shin.

A poll is asking the thoughts of the community. Some may agree, others may not. Ultimately your poll was getting the results you were looking for.

In more ways than one, pal.

[Breaker]

Sitting here thinking on it, the "quality of writing taking a back seat" thing doesn't really exist on Althanas.

Even if people are pumping out speed threads with fly-by-seat-of-your-posts stuff, they are still gaining a little writing experience by writing with others, reading threads of others, and making mental notes on improvement on some level.

Quality of writing taking a back seat is just ridiculous.

I'm not sure what you're basing these opinions on, but I'd have to disagree strongly. I've been on Althanas for years and years, and there has always been times when quality of writing takes a back seat, even back in the day when every single completed thread received a full rubric judgment. Every so often there'd be an event that offered 2x EXP or something, and suddenly people who ordinarily scored 65+ would be scoring low 50s because they were churning out threads as fast as possible. The difference is most threads don't get judged now, so trends in quality of writing are less apparent.

And power leveling is not the only reason quality of writing sometimes takes a back seat. Sometimes people just want to blow off steam, or have fun with a unique idea. I'll cite one of my own threads from 3.1 as an example: The Flesh Failures: Empty Orchestra (http://www.althanas.com/oldworld/showthread.php?31413-The-Flesh-Failures-Empty-Orchestra-(open!))

The above linked thread is the most recent in a string of themed threads I hosted over the years. The purpose of these threads has always just been to mess around and have fun, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that my quality of writing took a back seat to silliness in this thread, and others like it.

To address your other point, if someone is pumping out speed threads or just blowing off steam and being silly, they are by definition not making mental notes for improvement. To make an analogy, you don't get better at baseball by holding a bat any way you like and swinging it around randomly. You get better at baseball by holding the bat properly, and taking a proper stance, and swinging at an appropriate sized ball approaching at an appropriate speed. In other words, to quote and/or paraphrase apparently Vince Lombardi, "Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect". This basically just means that in order to see significant improvement in a skill, you need to deliberately try to get better at it, not just participate in it for enjoyment and/or breeze through it as quickly as possible.

For me, Althanas has always been mainly a combination of the first two poll options, with the addition that it has always been a place of learning and teaching, and with a little of the other options thrown in for flavor. When I first came here I was a young teen with literally no concept of how to craft a character, or a story, or properly describe a scene. I remember scoring something like 33/100 on my first ever thread, and the judge was none too kind with his remarks. Now I see Althanas as a place to sharpen my skills and give back to the community through mod work and workshops. I also see it as a place where my quality of writing sometimes takes a back seat to having fun and blowing off steam, or power posting, and I personally didn't feel like Shin was looking down on me for this, or being aggressive or whatever.

[darkest.desires.]

Anyone want ice cream crumbled with cookies?

[Stare]

I would love some :) that sounds like a great idea ^_^

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

I'm not sure what you're basing these opinions on, but I'd have to disagree strongly. I've been on Althanas for years and years, and there has always been times when quality of writing takes a back seat, even back in the day when every single completed thread received a full rubric judgment. Every so often there'd be an event that offered 2x EXP or something, and suddenly people who ordinarily scored 65+ would be scoring low 50s because they were churning out threads as fast as possible. The difference is most threads don't get judged now, so trends in quality of writing are less apparent.

And power leveling is not the only reason quality of writing sometimes takes a back seat. Sometimes people just want to blow off steam, or have fun with a unique idea. I'll cite one of my own threads from 3.1 as an example: The Flesh Failures: Empty Orchestra (http://www.althanas.com/oldworld/showthread.php?31413-The-Flesh-Failures-Empty-Orchestra-(open!))

The above linked thread is the most recent in a string of themed threads I hosted over the years. The purpose of these threads has always just been to mess around and have fun, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that my quality of writing took a back seat to silliness in this thread, and others like it.

To address your other point, if someone is pumping out speed threads or just blowing off steam and being silly, they are by definition not making mental notes for improvement. To make an analogy, you don't get better at baseball by holding a bat any way you like and swinging it around randomly. You get better at baseball by holding the bat properly, and taking a proper stance, and swinging at an appropriate sized ball approaching at an appropriate speed. In other words, to quote and/or paraphrase apparently Vince Lombardi, "Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect". This basically just means that in order to see significant improvement in a skill, you need to deliberately try to get better at it, not just participate in it for enjoyment and/or breeze through it as quickly as possible.

For me, Althanas has always been mainly a combination of the first two poll options, with the addition that it has always been a place of learning and teaching, and with a little of the other options thrown in for flavor. When I first came here I was a young teen with literally no concept of how to craft a character, or a story, or properly describe a scene. I remember scoring something like 33/100 on my first ever thread, and the judge was none too kind with his remarks. Now I see Althanas as a place to sharpen my skills and give back to the community through mod work and workshops. I also see it as a place where my quality of writing sometimes takes a back seat to having fun and blowing off steam, or power posting, and I personally didn't feel like Shin was looking down on me for this, or being aggressive or whatever.

This.

Being someone who remembers those times, and even before Althanas was a thing and we were mulling about in the interactive village, this rings especially true to me. I remember Storm Veritas stringing me out in my first judgment and I never thought I'd end up writing a JC with the guy eight years later.

I didn't (and don't) see how the wording of the third option before I changed it was offensive. If people are taking issue with it then they are really looking too deeply into the wording, looking for meaning that just isn't there. I would never purposely offend or be aggressive to anyone, and those who know me know that.

[Black Shadow]

Althanas is all of these things. You come here to collaborate with other people and their writings, to have fun doing so. Yet at the same time Althanas allows you to develop your skills as a writer, and to develop your writing style.

[Garron]

We could debate this until our fingers go numb.

How do you think we improved our writing back in the day before finding Althanas? We actually did the writing, collaborated with other writers (preferably more talented), and read the stories of others. Albeit, the improvement was extremely slow, but still there. Even if little by little.

I agree fully the detailed feedback and the unique rubric helps immensely with writing improvement. I don't deny that.

Althanas hit me like a brick at first, when receiving detailed and honest feedback. I found out, in the years before, I did only learn little. But, I can't say those years before taught me nothing at all.

[Storm Veritas]

Breaker hit the nail on the head. When I first came here in 2007 or 2008 Althanas was first and foremost a "writing workshop"; a game that lied under a place where people could go and get BETTER at writing. For me, it burned like hell at first, because better writers than me pointed out things I was doing wrong and my score reflected elements of laziness and ignorance. I learned more about editing effort, writing styles, mistakes I was making, and got better. I still have an awful lot to learn.

Other people use the site for different means, and that's fine too. I do wish that more people submitted judgments to continue to improve as writers rather than just accelerate the in character development of their accounts, but I've learned to live and let live there. By allowing both options, the community is probably stronger as a whole.

[Lye]

Thank god, I didn't word this poll. Y'all might have pitchforks and molotovs outside. Interesting poll idea. Nice to see some variety in who voted for what as well.

I personally remember Althanas as that elitist site. That was a time where PGs required certain score metrics to join. Then again, it was also infinitely easier to net an 80 than today. Frankly, I'm glad to see us pull away from that mentality a bit. Even though we're starting to adapt a more casual writing atmosphere, I feel the caliber of our members still drive personal expectations toward improvement rather than nonsensical storytelling.

I feel that at the present, we have a balanced representation of writing styles. Only excluding the bare bones "chat style" role play. Which, can be quite wild and problematic. Do you remember AOL RP chat rooms? I do, and no quantity of liquor can make it go away.

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

We could debate this until our fingers go numb.

How do you think we improved our writing back in the day before finding Althanas? We actually did the writing, collaborated with other writers (preferably more talented), and read the stories of others. Albeit, the improvement was extremely slow, but still there. Even if little by little.

I agree fully the detailed feedback and the unique rubric helps immensely with writing improvement. I don't deny that.

Althanas hit me like a brick at first, when receiving detailed and honest feedback. I found out, in the years before, I did only learn little. But, I can't say those years before taught me nothing at all.

I agree with this a million, zillion percent. You, right there, listed the ingredients for everything right with Althanas. But do you know where it has lost its way?

When members can come on and make 8/10 threads submitted just smut threads, with little to no intention of achieving anything your post nails (there is one in particular I can actually back this statistic up with).

When the Althies are nominated and only 3/10 people can name a thread for best quest or best battle in a year that had three very solid JC's, the cream of this website. As a member of staff who pours hours into reading people's work, and trying to give them comprehensive, meaningful advice, do you know how much that pisses me off? I can spend up to five hours at a time reading, appraising and helping for it to lead to this: a situation where people would just rather submit a sexually orientated thread to a workshop than write something worthwhile with character development, or read someone's hard work and give them the credit they deserve.

I have become seriously disillusioned with the direction this place is headed. I know I am not alone. If that lands me in hot water, so be it. I miss the days where writers would come here and weave great stories, even if the quality wasn't amazing.

You know what? Pav is a standout example of someone I adore on here. In the last couple of judgments I did for him, I have seen massive passion and improvement from the guy. I used to crucify the guy and I felt like shit for it because he was always giving 110%, but right now I look at him as THE example of where this site should be looking to head. Improvement, smiling all the time while doing it. That is where we should be and we're light years away while people are workshopping blowjob threads and it is being accepted as the norm and even applauded in some quarters.

Fuck knows how we are going to put a tournament together this year or any future year unless its a hentai fanfic competition.

I love this place. I was involved on an emotional level when my best mate in school was commissioned to make the continent that was come to be known as Salvar back in 2001. So I have a very heavy heart when I say what I say. But it needs to be said.

[Garron]

I agree fully on all of that, Shin.

[Lye]

I agree with this a million, zillion percent. You, right there, listed the ingredients for everything right with Althanas. But do you know where it has lost its way?

When members can come on and make 8/10 threads submitted just smut threads, with little to no intention of achieving anything your post nails (there is one in particular I can actually back this statistic up with).

When the Althies are nominated and only 3/10 people can name a thread for best quest or best battle in a year that had three very solid JC's, the cream of this website. As a member of staff who pours hours into reading people's work, and trying to give them comprehensive, meaningful advice, do you know how much that pisses me off? I can spend up to five hours at a time reading, appraising and helping for it to lead to this: a situation where people would just rather submit a sexually orientated thread to a workshop than write something worthwhile with character development.

I have become seriously disillusioned with the direction this place is headed. I know I am not alone. If that lands me in hot water, so be it. I miss the days where writers would come here and weave great stories, even if the quality wasn't amazing.

Nothing quite wrong with smut. Granted, it does seem to take up a large quantity of currently active threads. In the golden days, we had enough members that the smut remained in the underground of the site. People who knew it was there, knew there was quite a bit of it. Those that wanted more of the sword and shield adventure, didn't pay it any mind. Those were days where you'd wake up to 80+ new posts a day. Where you simply could not read nor follow everyone posting. Those were days where I had 10+ IM windows open talking stories or ideas.

As times have changed, our niche has grown smaller. The role play writing is outdated compared to video games, social media, and the thousands of TV channels versus what... 60? 70? back then on cable? Our entertainment options have broadened. The players and members looking for some high fantasy adventure can get it with Skyrim, Final Fantasy, and an infinite amount of mobile games or JRPGS. Even watching people play these games on twitch can fill that escapism itch where we want to slay a dragon or wipe out a bandit camp responsible for raiding a local village.

I can understand the frustration of seeing the place you had many memories change. But the way it also reads is you're upset that the vast majority of content just isn't content you prefer. Much like the arguments back in the day when furry/anthro characters were running rampant. Also, our member base has grown a bit older. Our average age group is no longer 13-18. We're dealing with young adults here 20+. Sex and darker themes are more prevalent. The wonder of adventure is dull, overwritten. How many times can one adventurer find treasure, save an innocent, or triumph over evil?

Much like those times, the theme of smut will also wane. Though maybe it'll transition to straight macabre, horror, or slash material? Maybe back to good ol stick and board adventure!

Who knows? I'm just enjoying the ride, even if it's not my cup of tea.

[Garron]

Only excluding the bare bones "chat style" role play. Which, can be quite wild and problematic. Do you remember AOL RP chat rooms? I do, and no quantity of liquor can make it go away. Yes! I remember the old days of chat room RP! You're right about no amount of liquor can make it go away. xD It's where the love of writing creatively all started for me, though. Then it was writing character sheets, stories, story posts, battles and feedback in blogs, then it was on to forums. What a ride it's been.

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

Nothing quite wrong with smut. Granted, it does seem to take up a large quantity of currently active threads.

Exactly, and we're giving people a 65 score for it. Some people don't even have to pay the AP. Bargain.


In the golden days, we had enough members that the smut remained in the underground of the site. People who knew it was there, knew there was quite a bit of it. Those that wanted more of the sword and shield adventure, didn't pay it any mind.

We had enough decent writers around who could do more than just waggle their funsticks about. I don't think it is a massive co-incidence that when most of them left, the JC forum dried up.


Those were days where you'd wake up to 80+ new posts a day. Where you simply could not read nor follow everyone posting. Those were days where I had 10+ IM windows open talking stories or ideas.

Fantastic times. Perhaps I am living in the past, but it is hard to not love those times.


As times have changed, our niche has grown smaller. The role play writing is outdated compared to video games, social media, and the thousands of TV channels versus what... 60? 70? back then on cable? Our entertainment options have broadened. The players and members looking for some high fantasy adventure can get it with Skyrim, Final Fantasy, and an infinite amount of mobile games or JRPGS. Even watching people play these games on twitch can fill that escapism itch where we want to slay a dragon or wipe out a bandit camp responsible for raiding a local village.

Doubtless. Yet I have across countless young talented writers who grew up in the era of gaming and managed to use their talents on here. Fenn, Ailsa, Redford, and so on.


I can understand the frustration of seeing the place you had many memories change. But the way it also reads is you're upset that the vast majority of content just isn't content you prefer.

Things change, and I've never been afraid of change on any level. But this isn't change - this is eradication of our identity on an industrial scale. I don't prefer one style of content to another as long as its creative and free thinking. I just don't think smut for the sake of smut qualifies.


Much like the arguments back in the day when furry/anthro characters were running rampant. Also, our member base has grown a bit older. Our average age group is no longer 13-18. We're dealing with young adults here 20+. Sex and darker themes are more prevalent. The wonder of adventure is dull, overwritten. How many times can one adventurer find treasure, save an innocent, or triumph over evil?

Sorry, but no. The fact that Althanas has been going as long as it has is because people have imaginations and find different ways to write and quest. Just saying "oh, well we've run out of ideas so we better oil up and get fucking instead" doesn't cut it. I've never had to do that once between age 16 and 32 (now), and I was shagging anything that moved in those times.


Much like those times, the theme of smut will also wane. Though maybe it'll transition to straight macabre, horror, or slash material? Maybe back to good ol stick and board adventure! Who knows? I'm just enjoying the ride, even if it's not my cup of tea.

Maybe you are right. Maybe i'm just old and grumpy, eh. ;)

[darkest.desires.]

Coming from someone that personally absolutely love this site for me it’s a little bit of all the options. I, myself know how intimidating it can be to submit your work for judgement. I love constructive criticism but also do sometimes take things personally. (Breaker, love ya babes for dealing with my emotional self haha.) For me I am a very weak technical writer, I focus more on descriptive elements then punctuation and grammar which hurts me. So I see where everyone is coming from but I don’t think the option was aggressive at all that Chris put.

I do feel that the site should get back to more workshops and also focusing on quality of the threads but sometimes you get an idea and run wild with it. I know I am bad at once I post on the site I don’t go back and read through and edit. I also miss the big threads that we all did together like Breaker posted above. I haven’t really seen any here since I have been back which is sad because that’s also how people branch out and explore other people in an open atmosphere. Hell thoughts what started Breaker and McKinley.

I love you all and I don’t think this poll should be taken personal. :o

[Philomel]

I think Althanas is what people want it to be, and if people are getting some good out of it, that is what is important. It is important in the foremost that people are here because they want to be, not because they feel any pressure or anything.

For me, it is a place to improve your writing, and that is what I would love people to see it as. I chose the second option, because that is what it is to me. For those who purely see it as a place to write some fun things, and not particuarly improve, I would say that that is okay, as everyone is individual. We still, though, clearly have a large group of people, the majority, it seems from the poll, who are here to improve their writing in some way (whether alongside writing for fun or purely to improve) and that is really encouraging as that is what Althanas was originally intended to do. That is why we have our unique rubric. For those who are here just to have fun writing - I say that there is no shame in that at all. Just remember that there are people who are here to write for improvement sake, and for those people to remember that there are folk here who are here just for fun.

We are all different people, I think is what I am saying. Yes, the majority of us seem to be heading towards wanting to improve writing moreover or equal to writing for fun.

Honestly, this site comes in peaks and troughs. We go through times of little to no activity, then huge surges like we seem to be now. I love this site, love the community and everyone in it. I think this poll was great in finding out what the majority of folk want from the site, but also helped to reveal what others think of it too, and has given us some really valuable insight.

Thank you for everyone who has made comments.

Everyone now have some Headbutt that Philomel made especially for you.

[Briarheart]

I tried to write a thread that would've forced canon-killed all sexual desire on the site so you wouldn't have to see smut threads anymore, but I was told it wouldn't get approved. So I did my part.

[darkest.desires.]

I tried to write a thread that would've forced canon-killed all sexual desire on the site so you wouldn't have to see smut threads anymore, but I was told it wouldn't get approved. So I did my part.

As someone that writes a lot of the smut threads on this site, you stick to what you are good at. I am a lover not a fighter, Andy don't try and change me! -insert over dramatic girl sobbing here.-

[Eteri]

Things change, and I've never been afraid of change on any level. But this isn't change - this is eradication of our identity on an industrial scale. I don't prefer one style of content to another as long as its creative and free thinking. I just don't think smut for the sake of smut qualifies.

Honestly;

It sounds like you really don't like smut threads or threads that contain sexual content. Which is fine; but if its an issue that is affecting the site you can either limit it; or put threads that are purely smut in their own section where they gain less exp?

I personally, when I write smut tend to also throw in a lot of story into it too: there's only been one time where it was pure smut and I personally wouldn't mind it going into like a 'after dark' section of the forum or whatever, and getting less exp for it. That way people can still write all the dirty deeds they want, but it won't be on the main section or the main focus of the site


Exactly, and we're giving people a 65 score for it. Some people don't even have to pay the AP. Bargain.
I see no smut threads in the Workshop? I see one M rated thread, and that isn't smut its got some gore in it but thats it.
And its up to the rp people who pays what AP, if someone with more AP is willing to use it then by all means let them.

[Mask of the Warden]

A creative writing site that facilitates interaction between players with role-playing elements.

However I feel the RoG is stifling and cripples ideas that don't fit in the neat little box. It's an opinion I've harbored for some time as others know. The gygaxian totalitarianism has gotten into frustrating amounts of minutae that can tired people to the point they stop posting level updates because they'd rather just write at a lower level than actually go through the process.

[darkest.desires.]

Honestly;

It sounds like you really don't like smut threads or threads that contain sexual content. Which is fine; but if its an issue that is affecting the site you can either limit it; or put threads that are purely smut in their own section where they gain less exp?

I personally, when I write smut tend to also throw in a lot of story into it too: there's only been one time where it was pure smut and I personally wouldn't mind it going into like a 'after dark' section of the forum or whatever, and getting less exp for it. That way people can still write all the dirty deeds they want, but it won't be on the main section or the main focus of the site


I see no smut threads in the Workshop? I see one M rated thread, and that isn't smut its got some gore in it but thats it.
And its up to the rp people who pays what AP, if someone with more AP is willing to use it then by all means let them.

I agree to this a lot. If people don’t like smut then don’t read it. It’s what I am personally good at and also enjoy so I will continue to write it but if it does bother people so much, maybe it should be put in its own section. I am actually shocked with how much smut threads are causing an up roar. To each their own.

[Ebivoulya]

Nothing quite wrong with smut. Granted, it does seem to take up a large quantity of currently active threads.

Exactly, and we're giving people a 65 score for it. Some people don't even have to pay the AP. Bargain.



I can understand the frustration of seeing the place you had many memories change. But the way it also reads is you're upset that the vast majority of content just isn't content you prefer.

Things change, and I've never been afraid of change on any level. But this isn't change - this is eradication of our identity on an industrial scale. I don't prefer one style of content to another as long as its creative and free thinking. I just don't think smut for the sake of smut qualifies.


I believe these to be symptoms of the AP system's implementation.

The base scores for No Judgements and Workshops were put that high specifically to make fewer people request full judgements, due to the backlog. You basically have to be shooting for a JC to have any reason not to just make it a workshop, and if it's going to be a workshop anyways, there's no reason to worry too much about the writing. The system incentivizes this 'go big or give up' mentality.

The gap between the automatic JC score of 80, and the base workshop score of 65, is too small in my opinion. Even if it is increased, though, I don't think it alone will stop this trend of No Judgements and Workshops. From the number of 'nj this one?' comments I see in chat, it seems like most people just want to write for fun. We've cycled in quite a few new members over the last few years, and they are the new majority. Reducing the workshop base score will probably convince a few of them to try regular judgements, and they might find the more focused feedback makes them want to try to improve more, but none of us can control the type of threads they want to write.

The workshop system complicates this problem. It seems like most of the people who submit threads for workshops, do not themselves post in other people's workshops. Unless this stigma of a 'feedback bar' that needs to be met disappears, they won't ever have enough AP to start requesting bigger judgements anyways. Not to mention, if most of the workshop submissions dry up because people moved back to regular judgements, the entire AP system withers. It's practically built on the lack of confidence of the majority; unless you're confident you can get near a JC, you just workshop it and stay stuck propping up the system by creating the main source of AP, without ever gaining enough of it yourself to move up to better judgements.

We really need extra sources of AP to be able to untangle any of this.

[Lye]

I seem to have struck a chord yet again. Maybe if we got that next tournament going, things would balance out. It’ll still be a lot of stabbing and screaming, but not so much phalic in nature.

All in all, I gave my feedback form the point of view of someone who has been trying to nurture activity on this site (albeit poorly as of late). However, this is the most active I have seen it in years. We have plenty of new writers, some who prefer smut and others who prefer whatever else. How would you correct what you see as an issue? No sex in threads? Keep it PG-13? Not sure how well a PC Fantasy forum would go. Suppose we could try and be like Gaia? Do we ban explicit material? How do we police it?

The difference with olthanas and what we are doing now does have a lot to do with our member base. Despite the increased activity, the member count is still low. Oldthanas had members by the fistful and staff to crank out judgments left and right. There was freedom in how judges gave feedback and how they scored. One judge gave you a 34, but another thought you were a 72. One staffer approved you about as strong as a level three, while the next said you needed to lock all but one fireball spell.

There choas, and in it we heard complaints, drama, ruined friendships. We added more order, rules, regulations. Activity started to take a dive. Member count dropped, judgments were handled by maybe three people at most. Staffers burnt out, players got bored. Althanas needs to find that balance of flexibility and rigidity. Althanas points were an attempt at that. Did it work? Sort of? More currency, more rules, more systems to encourage an environment to participate in and be judged in a workshop setting. But also, less rules, more play. The players that want to write and enjoy the gaming aspect are using NJs and Workshops as intended. If they don’t write as well as you or someone else that deserves more, why punish them if they’re having fun and enjoying our site?

Are the causing any harm? No. Is it setting a bad atmosphere for new players interested to start writing here? Maybe. The workshop and growth of Althanas was our core and we used it as a means to create RPG elements into fictional writing. Those elements are still there, but optional because we simply don’t have the numbers. Staff already takes up half of the member base. But that’s not saying much since there’s such a small member base.

I miss oldthanas too. But until we’re seeing 30 people signed in at the same time and 120 logged in today (not those shitty google bots) it’s just not feasible. If Althanas went back to full rubric only, we’d lose staff and members alike. Then we’d be a group of a dozen old codgers writing for our own little circle. I’m surprised we’ve had Althanas this long. Most RP sites die within 5 years. So what if there’s a shit ton of smut now? It’s writing isn’t it? People are making stories together aren’t they? And that continued effort together is, whether or not it’s quantified, helping them grow as writers. The romance novel market is huge. Who’s to say Kayla or Tiffany couldn’t see themselves published because they enjoy a smutty thread or two?

I’m getting a little off topic here. Smut isn’t as big a deal as this thread has brought it out to be. As an admin, I’d like to see a little less of it and a little more fantasy adventure, but it’s also my fault for not providing the members with inspiration and opportunity. The important thing and what we should really be discussing is passion. Not the sexual kind but pure, emotional, driving passion. What does this site need to do to kindle that in you writers and new writers who have yet to find our site? What is it about Althanas that makes you passionate about it? What makes you argue your point when we want to make it better? How do I and the staff use that to make this place better?

That’s what we need to open the floor to. What would make you excited to write? To participate in a workshop? To want to improve as a writer? Rewards? Praise? Acknowledgement? Or just a comfortable community to call your own where you can write what you want when you want without people saying “this sucks” or “I don’t like it”?

I have no side in this argument except Althanas and it’s members. I just want people to have fun, strive to improve themselves on their own terms, and create a welcoming community that welcomes you however you are. Weird, normal, strict, horny, or flippant.

Or maybe I’m outdated? Maybe I’m wrong and should take this more seriously? Maybe you do have a point that has been made abundantly clear to both smutty and non-smutty writers. Maybe that statement alone is enough. You tell me.

[Flamebird]

I sucked at writing when I first came here. Still trying to improve today, but at a much slower pace. There are those threads where I'm determined to go for the gold, then other threads where I just want to unwind or don't even try. Sometimes the start of a thread I was trying to write well looks so bad to me, I give up, get lazy, and just submit it for EXP instead. I don't feel as pressured now as I felt several years back, but maybe it's that pressure that pushed me as far as I've gotten? I don't know... Once again, it feels more relaxed here nowadays, but that could be both a bad and a good thing. Althanas was always a place to improve your writing in my eyes. These days I feel like the writing improvement aspect has taken a back seat. I like that power leveling and goof off threads are a little bit more common now, but the AP system makes it hard to submit a full rubric, which made it feel "official" to me. Then there's the badges and stuff too. Yeah, they were fun at first, but that was around the time the AP system and the perspective shift happened. Some good came out of the recent changes, and some bad too. So... dunno...

[Lye]

I sucked at writing when I first came here. Still trying to improve today, but at a much slower pace. There are those threads where I'm determined to go for the gold, then other threads where I just want to unwind or don't even try. Sometimes the start of a thread I was trying to write well looks so bad to me, I give up, get lazy, and just submit it for EXP instead. I don't feel as pressured now as I felt several years back, but maybe it's that pressure that pushed me as far as I've gotten? I don't know... Once again, it feels more relaxed here nowadays, but that could be both a bad and a good thing. Althanas was always a place to improve your writing in my eyes. These days I feel like the writing improvement aspect has taken a back seat. I like that power leveling and goof off threads are a little bit more common now, but the AP system makes it hard to submit a full rubric, which made it feel "official" to me. Then there's the badges and stuff too. Yeah, they were fun at first, but that was around the time the AP system and the perspective shift happened. Some good came out of the recent changes, and some bad too. So... dunno...

What would you like to see change if anything, Ashla?

[darkest.desires.]

I still blame my smut on Lye, he was suppose to teach me how to fight. This is all his fault for having a personal life... damn you Lye, damn you all to hell!

[Lye]

I still blame my smut on Lye, he was suppose to teach me how to fight. This is all his fault for having a personal life... damn you Lye, damn you all to hell!

This is accurate. I am a terrible senpai.

[Amari]

I like putting things in workshop for feedback but feedback is rare. Out of the three threads I've put in there re entry one has feedback.

There is negative connotation going into workshops where people say you're only doing it for extra exp, which makes others cautious of submitting work there.


Honestly it's not hard to gain ap, I did a tonne of workshops so got a backlog of it.

I think we just need to get rid of this stigma of good writing vs bad. Sure a lot of writing is better than others. Gosh knows I've done some poorly written threads.

I write equal amounts of story and smut. Others not so much. I'm hap py there is activity here. Regardless of content


To help drive story I suggest grabbing some staff and have them woek on copying over the wiki (I'd be up for that) and telling people hey if they want stuff to happen thays canon get to writing. And If it's deemed good enough (encourages writing improvement) and not world breaking then get people to wrire that.

More Althanas lore building and continent and country building.

I liked the monthly event thing where they had like "oh no alerar needs spider silk respiratora help them!"

Cause it gave you a mini goal or quest

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

Well, if anything this thread has been exceedingly useful as a research tool. Looking at the feedback from both our leadership and the members I guess Althanas's expectations and gold standard has changed to suit the times. There wiĺl come a time where people like me (the old guys) will run out of writing partners and we slink off into the ether, returning for the odd tournament and to complain about the price of milk.

Until then, I'll carry on fighting the good fight, waving my zimmerframe about as I try to take over Corone, occasionally stopping to argue with cats.

[FennWenn]

Do these cats have blue hair?

Probably is a little late for it, but I thought I might give a tiny bit of personal feedback. I’m planning to be a writer-type as a career, so I like using Althy as a place to practice and make writer-buddy friends; that’s always how I’ve seen my roleplay communities. It’s not going to have my most polished work because this is me throwing paint against a wall and seeing what I can make by dragging a brush through it. “Quality” depends more on my personal investment in a particular than in anything else. Whether or not I thread with someone depends on how engaging the thread sounds. tl;dr — Fenn is not superduper serious here.

Opinion on recent smut; lesbian pairings or I skip over the diddly doo.

[Garron]

I think many of the issues stated in this thread are elements of a version upgrade. With the transfer of a site the caliber of Althanas to a version upgrade, comes anxiety and frustration, not only within a community, but within staff too. Member numbers take a hit as does participation. It’s normal, and I’m sure it has been seen in past version upgrades. I think every single person involved has done an amazing job with reinforcing the foundation of Althanas 4.0 for growth. I mean everyone. Community and staff. Subjects like the Workshop, content and the AP system will improve as member numbers and participation rises. These things will even out, and I don’t think separating writers that enjoy writing what people call “smut” and penalizing rewards is needed. There is a fan base for it, those writers are participating withing the confines of Althanas, and most of them are being tagged a “Rated Mature”, or whatever for those that don’t wish to indulge in that genre. Do I enjoy that sort of thing, no, but there is a member base for it. Live and let live, I say.

The subject of the Wiki is an entirely different thing. A lot goes into that that people may not realize. Back a year before finding Althanas, I was looking into hosting a forum based on a medieval fantasy world my wife and I created. When purchasing a version of a forum, you only get the core forum itself, not to mention all of the fees involved such as hosting and whatever. Many of the forum perks we take for granted, these things are separate programs that need to be purchased and installed into the core forum. None of it is cheap, folks. None of us can assume the software used for 3.1 is compatible with 4.0. Some may be, but I imagine, not all. Hell, vBulletin and Dragonbyte need to make money on software some how, right? Donations help a lot, and all of us cheap bastards can get off our wallets, purses and pockets and donate. Plus, I imagine the coding alone for transferring something the size of the 3.1 Wiki to 4.0 is mind numbing, eye crossing, and carpal tunnel inducting. Oi.

With the participation thing, I think you’ve done a great job with the monthly events, hosting threads and posting Tavern stuff, Lye. It has been effective and enjoyed within the community. I think anything more could have been overwhelming for the new version of Althanas over the past few months. I think the community has done a great job on their parts too. *I just seen the Gisela is firing up. Nice!

Althanas 4.0 is growing, and numbers don’t lie. I just think a little patience, understanding, common courtesy, gratefulness and generosity go a long way. Things will get better in time.

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

I'm looking forward to the Gisela.

[Max Dirks]

This is a small sample of post counts, but overall it's an accurate representation of the improved activity on Althanas recently, much of which I attribute to Althanas 4.0. And super poster, Nevin, of course.

http://www.althanas.com/world/images/earlyjan.png

[Philomel]

Oh go us!!! That's really encouraging to see that.

In general I think we're a great community and I'm glad we have so many different people (though in the core we're all really geeks). I think this thread has brought some great insight and ideas of what people like about the site.

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

This is a small sample of post counts, but overall it's an accurate representation of the improved activity on Althanas recently, much of which I attribute to Althanas 4.0. And super poster, Nevin, of course.

http://www.althanas.com/world/images/earlyjan.png

The results are hardly surprising. There was a 32 post NJ and a 36 NJ in those figures between Nevin and Phi. Even if you take those out we still have more activity, which is good. As long as everyone is having fun, right?

[Max Dirks]

Still is activity, and IC activity as well. I’ll take that anyday.

[darkest.desires.]

The great Dirk loves!!!!��