The Cell Discussion

[Ataraxis]

So, what are Dirks and Phagan standing on? A 15-foot tall tower of adamantine in the middle of the Mazrith chamber? Meaning Aeq and Trez were not separated by a wall of adamantine, but a transparent force-field that would have allowed them to see what was happening in the other chamber?

Also, in the previous round, there seemed to be a big confusion about whether anyone could physically touch the adamantine walls, or if they were protected by the force-field (which would have made them useless in Round 1). It's moot now, since the field is down, but I'm curious as to which it was.

[Letho]

Dirks, I'm working under the assumption that Ulysses gets a bullet to the head for not posting in a timely manner. I can't leave him out of my post because of continuity, so I'm going to make Dirks shoot him in my post. If you have problems with this, let me know and I'll edit or something.

[Max Dirks]

So, what are Dirks and Phagan standing on? A 15-foot tall tower of adamantine in the middle of the Mazrith chamber? Meaning Aeq and Trez were not separated by a wall of adamantine, but a transparent force-field that would have allowed them to see what was happening in the other chamber?

That's right. In fact, several people in the Treslizn chamber took note of the actions of the Aequitas chamber during the battle. The intent was for each chamber to be independent of each other in the first round, then I would combine the two for the second. Now that I look at it, the original round would have been a combination of picture 1 and 2 that you drew. The difference would be that the original arenas were more ovular. Please excuse me if my descriptions were poor.

Also, in the previous round, there seemed to be a big confusion about whether anyone could physically touch the adamantine walls, or if they were protected by the force-field (which would have made them useless in Round 1). It's moot now, since the field is down, but I'm curious as to which it was.

Of course you can touch the wall, but running magical fire up it and ripping a portion of it out (and subsequently throwing and crumbling it into a little ball) is too excessive. Adamantine is made from prevalida, mythril, spider silk and other potent materials. It would eat magic and be indestructible based on all of your individual character levels and abilities. I gave you and Sei a break when you otherwise interacted with the shield portion, but like you said its moot now. The only shield left is around Dirks.

Hope that answers your questions.

Letho, feel free to bunny me and I will respond to your post in turn.

[Ataraxis]

More or less, so thanks.

As for the points you brought up: the crumbling into a little ball, I think, refers to Lillian's meteor hammer? However, this was done in direct response to Numbers' defining the doors as being made of iron, rather than adamantine. Instead of ignoring someone else's actions, since they weren't DQed for it, I went along with that description for reasons of continuity. The fact that I continuously referred to the door as being made iron in the posts should also have clarified this stance. In terms of power, that was also well within the limitations of her current character profile, as it states she can bend dehlar with effort, and I underplayed that ability by making her struggle somewhat to bend mere iron.

My reasons of continuity also apply to Sei's actions, as he succesfully stabbed into the indestructible force-field and climbed up in this manner: since it was accepted as a legal action, I deemed that simply using the force-field as a solid surface was in no way an abusive action, especially when considering the interaction between the force-field and the rain in your first post. If it were meant to disintegrate people, it should have vaporized any water coming into contact with it, but this was mentioned nowhere, and as such the rain would have simply slid off the field. If it acts as a solid surface to rain, it acts as a solid surface to anything else, including Lillian's feet, even if she were using adhesive webs on it. Since all actions were based on official information, as well as actions of participants that were considered approved by absence of disqualification, I believe that none of the actions described in Lillian's posts required any sort of 'legal break' or 'letting it slide' mindset, though I thank you for the otherwise good intentions.

Moreover, here is the one official definition of Adamantine that can be found in the Bazaar FAQ:

First and foremost is Adamantine. No normal substance can harm adamantine, cause it to lose shape or edge, and among "abnormal" substances the only one known to even pose a threat to adamantine is icemold (see below). Adamantine appears as either a tan stony substance or a steely metallic substance, although different ancient weapons-mages and craftsmen often "signed" their creations with special tinges or colors. Adamantine items are relics from a time before and during the Wars of the Tap, and can only be made by a mage using the entire Eternal Tap. As such, no adamantine items have been made since the end of those wars. Based on ancient texts, the only known method of creating adamantine suggests that it is an alloy, as it describes a process by which mythril and prevalida ores are melted together over a fire stoked by liviol wood and kindled on a bed of Njalian Spidersilk; the entire thing must, of course, be presided over by a mage feeding the power of the Eternal Tap into the mixture. There may still be other means, altogether unknown, of crafting adamantine, but anyone who discovers such a method is bound to keep it a dead secret in order to maintain the high price of what they create.

There is no description mentioning any capacity to eat magic, and none of the players currently using adamantine weapons seem to be aware of this new property you speak of (infusing Tap Magic during the smelting process implies no inherent ability to absorb any and all magic, the same way an enchanted weapon does not). While it does state indestructibility, it does not say anywhere that the metal does not vibrate: in fact, the simple fact that knocking on adamantine would create a sound means that it would be able to vibrate, and thus, to absorb heat (as heat would increase the vibration of its particles). As long as the adamantine did not melt or lose shape (which it did not), then heating up the area either through physical or magical means would be physically viable, and does not violate any of the specified properties of adamantine in the canon accessible to players.

I hope that this clarifies.

[Max Dirks]

I'm not even sure why you are bringing this up. It appears like you're not happy with my decisions regarding power gaming in the first round. Frankly, your pattern of attempting to undermine every thing I say or do is getting frustrating. To put this issue to rest, I'll submit to you the following:

The fact that I continuously referred to the door as being made iron in the posts should also have clarified this stance.

Which is why only 016573 was actually punished for his manipulation of the door. Once the interpretation was skewed, it would be unfair to punish everyone else. This is particularly true in light of the general advice I give for opponents effected by power gaming: "Work through it."

My reasons of continuity also apply to Sei's actions, as he succesfully stabbed into the indestructible force-field and climbed up in this manner: since it was accepted as a legal action, I deemed that simply using the force-field as a solid surface was in no way an abusive action, especially when considering the interaction between the force-field and the rain in your first post.

The spirit of the force field is to prevent the sort of garbage that happened last time during the finals where a level 0 hushpuppy abused virtually all parts of the setting to pull out a victory against higher leveled foes. Neither your attack, nor Sei's, damaged the integral purpose of the field, therefore I "let it slide." Perhaps a better term is that it "was not power gaming."

There is no description mentioning any capacity to eat magic, and none of the players currently using adamantine weapons seem to be aware of this new property you speak of (infusing Tap Magic during the smelting process implies no inherent ability to absorb any and all magic, the same way an enchanted weapon does not).

It's a common rule of geology that when two minerals combine their offspring inherits the attributes of their parents. For clarification purposes, I will have the bazaar staff add the magic absorbing quality to the official description.

As long as the adamantine did not melt or lose shape (which it did not), then heating up the area either through physical or magical means would be physically viable, and does not violate any of the specified properties of adamantine in the canon accessible to players.

When metal heats, particles move faster and it eventually loses form. In canon, it says that adamantine cannot melt or lose it's form. Therefore, it it appropriate to infer to the contrary that adamantine will not absorb heat. Again, this is something that I will have the bazaar moderators add. When the Bazaar rules were being made, it was decided that adamantine would be the strongest material on Althanas: indestructible and generally unavailable to the public. It was something to be desired, but nigh achievable. Finally, in keeping with the spirit of the shield/arena, it was my desire for it to remain largely unaffected by player actions.

I hope that clears up my interpretation of the situation. If you would like to further discuss my decision in the tournament, I encourage you to come to me privately.

[Visla Eraclaire]

Wow, we're discussing fantasy metallurgy now. I sure am glad not to be a party to that.

[Ataraxis]

For for the vibrations: adamantine can still be broken by Icemold, an abnormal substance with abnormal effects. This being said, I very much doubt something much more powerful, such as a supernova exploding, would leave adamantine intact. No character will ever achieve this level of power, and as such, the alloy is considered virtually indestructible. This means it can vibrate, but that it would require millions of times the heat generated during the Aequitas battle to warp it. It did not warp, but it still vibrates, and still becomes hot to the touch.

To close the matter of adamantine: alloys do inherit properties from their components, but they are mitigated by the percentage of composition. Delyn is a good example of this, as it incorporates a good balance of the properties of Dehlar and Damascus. Considering adamantine is made of mythril (which is weak against offensive magic yet very conductive to enchantments) and prevalida (which is good for both), but that neither of those metals absorb or cancel magic by definition, the adamantine would require a note in the Bazaar saying that this is indeed a new property. Since you say you're doing this, then I have no concerns about this point anymore: as long as it’s in the canon and that people know of it, then I’m content.

As Visla said, however, this is fantasy metallurgy. I reiterate: as long as the nebulous becomes clear, and that this new information is available in a canon that is accessible to all players, then it’s good.

Moreover, the points I bring up are not meant to change your decision at the end of Round 1. Even if we had an option for appeals, I have absolutely no intention or desire of putting anyone through that laborious and unfulfilling process. My only intention was to clarify why people made certain mistakes because of understandable misunderstandings (such as the information being unavailable), or why certain actions were not mistakes, as you seemed to have implied in a previous post. Many have expressed a desire to explain themselves, but few bothered because they were afraid of sounding like sore losers or suffering from sour grapes, so I felt it was fair to present their point of view as a third party.

I’m sorry if you take the points I bring up personally, but I’ve made a point of expressing valid concerns that are shared by other participants, in a tone as neutral as a can muster, with the occasional lighter note (which I believe you took for sarcasm). Considering it’s been mostly a discussion between you and me, it’s understandable that you can’t take much of anything I say seriously or objectively. Still, know that I would have actually preferred not to speak at all, if most of the people who did share any of the these concerns I brought up hadn't chosen not to express their qualms, in fear of being ignored, dismissed, or insulted – which, I regret to say, did happen in this thread.

A lot of people have lost faith in this tournament, and contrary to what you may think, I’m bringing all these points up for a chance to rekindle their interest, either as participants or readers. If you deem my intervention to be unnecessary, however, I will remove myself from this discussion.

I will agree to your terms, and end this here. I will, however, respectfully decline the offer of continuing this conversation privately, as we both know how that will go.

I apologize to anyone I may have incommoded with my posts, and hope you may all resume your discussions as before.

[Saxon]

I like how the law student is the one lecturing Jean who is actually an engineer over the semantics of metallurgy of a ficticious metal with random facts over geology to cover up the fact he's adding rules after the fact. AND he's getting frustrated over it. Makes for good TV.

[Christoph]

[TheOrganism]

Lol @ Trolling example ^^^