Experience Awards

[Letho]

It's certainly not a huge problem, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make positive changes. I mean, god, it'd be so pathetically easy to fix. (I wouldn't suggest removing the Post-Count modifier, but just making it standard procedure to adjust that number based on post length). EXP will always be a large concern because the majority of members can't tell the stories they want at low levels. I mean sure, by this stage I EXP is only a minor concern for me personally, because I'm a high enough level to tell basically any story I want. That might change if I made a new character, though.

But isn't that a part of the Althanas experience? Hasn't that always been a part of the Althanas experience, not counting the IW days? There are other places where you can do whatever story you want and have whatever character you want from the get go. On Althanas you start from the bottom and work your way up. And while EXP is not a concern to me anymore either, it hasn't really ever been a concern to me. I started a number of characters after Letho and got a good number of levels on them, starting from the bottom every single time, and I was seldom worried about the EXP points accumulated on that account. I'd say that maybe it's just me, but I'm scarcely the only person who had done that.

[SirArtemis]

in the grand scheme, the experience different between the current system and the proposed alternatives isnt that extreme. the only reason i brought it up was because i wasnt sure about the discretion system of giving people more credit for long posts or not.

[Silence Sei]

I suppose my only frustration stems from wanting to be able to write more "out there" stories, and until I'm higher level, my weapons, armor, and abilities are for the most part limited to a normal human being. I mean, that's not the worst thing in the world, don't get me wrong. I just have read so many stories about incredible characters, that I feel like my character is just another person. More experience would allow me to grow my character faster so that my stories could become more eccentric, especially with respect to fighting.

Isn't this kind of the point to making a character? Almost everyone starts out a no-name. You earn the incredible stories through -writing- incredible stories. Thor didn't have Godly Ice abilities when he was a general for Alerar. Sei only had 3 abilities until level 5, and didn't even get half of his arsenal until level 5 as well.

Not to be mean or anything, but didn't we create these characters to -make- them rise from the ashes of obscurity into things of greatness? I'm just sayin, is all.

[Letho]

The main concern that always rises up from this (and I'm going to jump ahead and intercept it before someone brings it up) is that there are people who don't want to follow the rising-from-the-ashes story. And I understand that to an extent. However, we're not forcing people to play utter weaklings and fifteen years old lads still looking for their place in the world. I'm not going that particular road again because that's a can of worms I have no desire to reopen, but suffice to say you can still write great stuff with level zero characters. All it takes is a bit ingenuity.

[Christoph]

But isn't that a part of the Althanas experience? Hasn't that always been a part of the Althanas experience, not counting the IW days? There are other places where you can do whatever story you want and have whatever character you want from the get go. On Althanas you start from the bottom and work your way up. And while EXP is not a concern to me anymore either, it hasn't really ever been a concern to me. I started a number of characters after Letho and got a good number of levels on them, starting from the bottom every single time, and I was seldom worried about the EXP points accumulated on that account. I'd say that maybe it's just me, but I'm scarcely the only person who had done that.

Letho saying "It's the way we've always done it, therefore it must obviously be the best way"? I'm shocked. Furthermore, you're edging toward Strawman territory, because nobody is suggesting the abolition of the EXP system. I too like the "build your way up" aspect of Althanas, though I'm also far more into dark, low fantasy than high fantasy, so the low levels don't bother me as much as others. That said, there's a difference between encouraging players to work their way up the ranks and encouraging tedium. I wrote some fun stories in the lower levels, but many of them felt like EXP runs, because after a fair number of quests, I'd basically done everything that I wanted to with that power range, and my character was still too weak to move on to the new stuff I wanted to do.

All that isn't even the issue here, and I agree with Letho that it's been argued a lot before and need not eat up this thread. I'm merely pointing out that if characters get to advance a little bit faster due to a change in the EXP formula, it would not in any conceivably sane way be a terrible thing. ((But while we're on this subject, I recall the staff announcing that the Registration system had been changed, but has it actually been updated in the appropriate threads, where new members can find the updated guidelines?))

And I will make the observation that even us high level folk, who claim (and honestly, I believe) not to care a whole lot about EXP, still pay it enough notice to argue about it. =p

Anyway, regarding the thread's actual topic, I will again point out that the solution is immensely simple. Just post some fancy announcement in the mod forum at least -encouraging- judges to use the sacred Discretion in adjusting EXP based on post length, and perhaps include my earlier proposed method for doing so with minimal effort. Then, fiddle with the formula a little bit so that the post count variable is a little higher, and thus the difference in per-post value won't shift quite so much. This could be accomplished in a matter of minutes, would hurt absolutely nothing, and it would make the entire EXP system more even-handed and fair.

[Atzar]

ITT: Christoph and TB somehow find a way to argue when they actually agree; Duffy begins the trend of one-word posts with no substance; and horses can be beaten into nonexistence.

You have no idea how depressing reading this is. It is almost an exact replica of the real world, where we need an incredibly devastating event to occur simply to use it as a catalyst to build momentum for change. Is it so wrong to make change before there is a huge problem? And the solution I now propose is easy to implement, is well defined, and I think everyone would prefer this method.

Then again, I admit that I'm new, but that should be valuable in allowing me a different perspective on a system that I haven't become so accustomed to that I'm immune to its potential flaws.

In general, it is fairly difficult to enact change here. It typically requires a unanimous vote to happen. Even when there's a majority vote, we tend to argue the point back and forth - ten people against one or two - until everybody gets tired of arguing and the topic dies with no real resolution. It doesn't make any sense, but it does happen. I agree with you that this shouldn't be the case. At the expense of the feelings of the minority, I think we need to force action more often than we do - hurt feelings don't last forever.

Having said that, I believe that the system should be left the way it is. I think post count should have a modifier, because a 20-post quest should gain more than a 10-post quest, all other variables equal. As has been stated, it reflects more effort and time put into the thread. I feel like tweaking the existing formula to give more or less EXP for length would essentially be replacing one arbitrary number with another - we don't know if the current equation is best, and we won't know if a slightly modified equation is better.

As an aside, Sir Artemis, know that your input here is appreciated and will continue to be appreciated whenever you give it. Thanks for starting this thread.

[Letho]

Letho saying "It's the way we've always done it, therefore it must obviously be the best way"? I'm shocked.

Well, I'd hate to be inconsistent.

And I will make the observation that even us high level folk, who claim (and honestly, I believe) not to care a whole lot about EXP, still pay it enough notice to argue about it. =p

We wouldn't want to rob the noobs of all the good times we had at low-low levels.

Anyway, regarding the thread's actual topic, I will again point out that the solution is immensely simple. Just post some fancy announcement in the mod forum at least -encouraging- judges to use the sacred Discretion in adjusting EXP based on post length, and perhaps include my earlier proposed method for doing so with minimal effort. Then, fiddle with the formula a little bit so that the post count variable is a little higher, and thus the difference in per-post value won't shift quite so much. This could be accomplished in a matter of minutes, would hurt absolutely nothing, and it would make the entire EXP system more even-handed and fair.

There is actually a note written in bold letters in the official thread regarding judging in the mods forum stating that judges should use the formula as a mere guideline and use their discretion to adjust it if they deem it necessary. As for fiddling around with formula, I'm with Atzar that we shouldn't be messing with it. OMG, another shocker, I know.

[Tainted Bushido]

ITT: Christoph and TB somehow find a way to argue when they actually agree; Duffy begins the trend of one-word posts with no substance; and horses can be beaten into nonexistence.

Whoa whoa whoa there buddy! I only posted once, that can hardly be considered an argument. If I had posted calling Christoph a dirty monkey cheaty face, that's another matter entirely. I merely was stating that changes to the post count were minimal. Alright, so my estimate was off by maybe a hundred XP, but that STILL is considerably smaller even once you hit level 1 and are reaching the big leagues. (which ironically begins about level 3-4 and continues till you have more experience than god...) I mean, do we even have an Epic Character quest board or something?

[Atzar]

My point was that your viewpoints weren't necessarily that much different, yet he still managed to crank out a three-point rebuttal. It amused me.

[Rayse Valentino]

I haven't read any of this thread but, a little tweaking is all you need. Put more into the multiplier from score and level, put less into the one from post count. That way, a 30-post quest of similar score and levels would still receive more exp, but not a substantially large amount more, and the lower-post count quest would receive more exp as well, but being a bad, short quest now is much more detrimental to exp than being a bad, long quest, effort-wise.

Whether or not something is interesting should always take precedence over how long it is.