The Rubric.

[Rayse Valentino]

Workshop judging tends to work on a more collective basis, it was implemented to address similar concerns following previous endeavours to address the 'issues' with the rubric.

Workshop judging has ended up being a few people giving their opinion and then ultimately a judge comes in and does the same thing they always do. It is no different no matter how fancy you make it look. Although I guess it does make it easier for judges to give non-commented scores and hide in the comments of the actual contributors to make it look like they actually read the thread they're judging when they clearly did not.

Anyway, I'd like to see some top-down support for change. Bottom-up doesn't happen in a totalitarian organization.

[Saxon]

I think regardless, adjustments to the rubric really need to be put on hold while more fundamental problems of Althanas need to be solved first. It'd be great if we have a better grading system that had less bias and more room for members to grow in it, but the facts are that what Althanas needs is drastic improvement in other areas first before something like this could be considered useful. Visla went over a lot of them, and I do have a couple to add, but I'd also like to point out the good that has already been done first;

1) Site consolidation. Max has gone to some length fixing up the site and making things easier to find which for newer people has probably been a breath of relief because it took me awhile before I could find my way around here when I first joined.

2) Writer's Workshop. Though it hasn't been the roaring success everyone has wanted it to be, lets be honest. For years people have talked about how Althanas is a writer's workshop to help other writers grow, but until the making of this its been pretty much all talk. It'd be interesting if the workshop were further developed and more input was put in through members, because at this point in time its more of a crapshoot where choosing this judging option is a role of the dice on whether or not people will even read your stuff.

At the very least, it gives a member a taste of what judges go through when trying to judge threads, because not all of them are outstanding or great reads, and the hardest lesson to learn when starting out is to just take it for what it is but try to help anyway. In that aspect, I think the workshop has helped a great deal.

3) Acceptance among Old and New Members. I know this isn't exactly something someone has implemented, but there is definitely a cultural shift that has occurred in our site. Unlike in previous years, I've noticed less of a division between older veterans of the site and newer folks coming in. That could just because I'm so busy I don't have time to look around and talk to everyone, but the word 'newbie' and viewing people as outsiders for just joining seems to have dissipated. Its become easier to gain acceptance and become one of us without your interest in the site really falling into question. This is important because newer members need to be given a hand in getting used to the site, and it makes it all the harder when having to actively work your way in socially.

Perhaps that's because attitudes have changed or our older memberbase has changed and become less centrically focused, but its still a good thing and we should keep it up and continue to embrace newer members.

----

These were just a couple things I could think of off the top of my head, but all of them are good examples of how our site has changed for the better. But, why I wanted to mention them first prior to the problems is to let members know that regardless of where most of us stand on the degrees in which Althanas needs to be improved, it can be done. But, instead of little things, we also need to solve bigger problems.

1) Althanas' identity crisis. Althanas has been a community that has fallen on the fence between being gamers or writers for years, even before I joined. I think it would be beneficial for this site if we pick a direction for it to go and stick with it, regardless if it happens quite the way I want it to. I know some people will get angry and others will leave, but you have to think of the greater good here. If Althanas is a writer's workshop and it decides to become that and accept that as its mission, it could shed the gaming aspect and focus on that part of the site and utilize a lot of the opportunities its missed out while trying to cater to gamers as well as writers. The same could be said if Althanas decides to be a roleplaying game.

The important thing to note, however, is this sort of decision in cultural identity of Althanas could only benefit this site. The cost would be some members, but instead of having a site that has stagnated and existed for years without coming to any real decision on where it should grow, it'd actually be able to do that. People would also have less hoops to jump through in order to get what they want out of the site, whether its to write or roleplay.

2) Staff organization. Most of this won't really apply to a lot of the members here, but those of us who have been on the staff can sort of identify this. While there are some things that can be done while on the staff that could be beneficial for the site, a lot of it revolves around being role models on the site and policing up other members. If you want to judge, that's fine, or if you want to help with a tournament or function that's all right too, but other then that much of it, at least in my time, was all discussion with little implementation. And at the end of the day, the way the staff functions was more disheveled and disorganized then it should be.

Either give better training to different staff members so they can learn their job and be able to do different tasks in their area so that they can remain busy without having to wander around and look for work to do. It could also be something as simple as regular staff meetings where administrators and staff members sit down together either in a chatroom or a thread and view their current mission, the goals the administrators have, ideas from staff members, and the different tasks the staff needs to accomplish in order to meet these goals. Its a bit simplified, but this is kind of fundamental in having a staff when in a managerial or leadership position because it keeps people on the same page and lets the people who are working for you to understand what you want of them other then to just keep on keeping on.

This is more of a gripe for when I was on the staff, but whether or not it rings true today, it'd be a good idea to look at this. Because on this site and to implement changes to better this site, it needs to happen from the top down. Members here cannot implement these changes ourselves because we do not have the power to do so. And largely the staff may talk of things and implement some things, but it'd be very beneficial for the staff and the site as a whole if there was a consolidation of leadership and management of its tasks were better handled.

3) Recruitment. Largely Althanas grows in membership by word of mouth, but I think once we decide what kind of product the site could offer people, it'd be a decent idea to look into some sort of advertisement whether it be electronic or not in order to get Althanas' name out there and draw in more members. I don't really want to get too deep into this given where we are right now, but I think as a part of the to-do list in the future, some sort of improvement in our recruitment of members needs to be looked at, but only after the re-organization and focus of the direction of the site.

[Hysteria]

Althanas lacks a singular goal and direction, it lacks dedicated staff, and it lacks a sufficient member base. You won't get dedicated members without decent judging. You can get good judges without a large pool to pull from. You lose significant numbers of both if you choose a single goal for Althanas instead of having it be mediocre at two things.

Thats just silly. Goals don't need to have one target, and the two are not exclusive and Althanas has the most dedicated staff i've seen on an RP board. Maybe that is not saying much given the quality of most RP boards, but meh.

I know you're going to fight me tooth and nail on this, but the game aspect and writing aspect are not contradictory. I know the argument and I agree that there are some things that can interfere with a pure writing exterience (eg limited skills of a character can interfere with the story you are trying to tell). But our current 'hybrid' system is a writing game. They are only a dichotomy if you call it such.

Instead of looking at people as 'writers' or 'gamers' why not focus on creating a good experience as a writing game? The reward for good writing is exp and gold which then increases the 'fun' of the game when you have a more powerful character. A good storyline, easy to follow rules (seriously I still have no idea what I can and can't do when I lvl up), a rich world and good community would do a lot more than the old focus on writing vs gamming.

Workshop judging has ended up being a few people giving their opinion and then ultimately a judge comes in and does the same thing they always do. It is no different no matter how fancy you make it look. Although I guess it does make it easier for judges to give non-commented scores and hide in the comments of the actual contributors to make it look like they actually read the thread they're judging when they clearly did not.

If you see workshop's goal as to provide feedback from a few different sources to help improve the RPers writing then it is a success. You have 2/3/4 people's imputs than than one.

[Visla Eraclaire]

My simple response to you, Hysteria, is the lessons of experience. Your view of the two as fully compatible displays an ignorance of the experience of this board for oh so many years. The reason why the board is not great as a game is because it is shackled by writing-based constraints. The reason why the board is not great as a writing symposium is that it masquerades as a game.

The two are not totally exclusive. Althanas inhabits the middle ground between them, but it will never be truly successful at either and the vast majority of people seek one goal or the other. Relatively few seek the hybrid. For those people, Althanas is really the only game in town, but there aren't enough of those people for Althanas to prosper with them as its only fully satisfied members.

[Scrotus]

I think the 11 people who selected options 1-5 should take a stab at jointly creating, or coming up with, solutions to what you think is wrong with the rubric. I know some of the aforementioned problems aren't patchable, but you guys are a smart bunch (the ones I'm guessing selected options 1-5, seeing as most of you are probably site veterans).

[Lord Anglekos]

I think the 11 people who selected options 1-5 should take a stab at jointly creating, or coming up with, solutions to what you think is wrong with the rubric. I know some of the aforementioned problems aren't patchable, but you guys are a smart bunch (the ones I'm guessing selected options 1-5, seeing as most of you are probably site veterans).

Several have already, Scrotus; including the people who voted options 6-10, as well. That's what this thread is for. So what do you, personally, feel should be done about the rubric? If the decision lied upon you and you alone, what would you do to fix it's issues?

[Saxon]

I think the 11 people who selected options 1-5 should take a stab at jointly creating, or coming up with, solutions to what you think is wrong with the rubric. I know some of the aforementioned problems aren't patchable, but you guys are a smart bunch (the ones I'm guessing selected options 1-5, seeing as most of you are probably site veterans).

I picked 2. And I've rehashed many of the arguments I've made over the past few years as well as recommendations on how to improve the site. However, I've always found myself hitting a wall. Either someone isn't listening or they don't care. Regardless, I don't think anything will become of this regardless of how much we talk it out. Someone may eventually peruse the thread and cherry-pick the reasons why they want to implement an answer they think is right, but overall I very much doubt anything becomes of this.

But, hey, all walls can be broken with the right amount of pressure, right? If you think that ideas like this have some kind of merit, keep talking about it. Many of us older members aren't going to be around forever, so if you want some sort of change to tip Althanas off the fence so it can move on, I'd say keep the idea alive. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually somebody with some kind of authority will listen.

[Scrotus]

If the choice were up to me, Anglekos, I'd resort to creating a voting thread (like this one) and take into consideration the most suitable suggestions. The good thing about Althanas is that it's a community, and while everyone doesn't always agree, it should be everyones input, not just one person's.

I voted a 9, because it's my favorite number (and the option I most agreed with...of course...). Truth is, I don't think the rubric itself is a failure, or even that bad for that matter. I would suggest changing some aspects, but if the changes were never made it wouldn't kill me.

I think strategy should be put back on the Rubric, so what do I know?

[Caysim Winters]

Alright...I'm new, but for the ones who know me, they can tell anyone that I do my research before actually just spitting some nonsense out. On a sidenote, i've missed you in chat for the pass few days Lord Angelface.

One, the system of the rubric can be consolidated immensely. Too many things that are in it, that create points, are simply repeats of previous categories to create points.

Second, the system is based on completely WHO judges it. I may like books by Tom Clancy, Lord Angelface may like Ann Rice, and Sei may love Dr. Suess. They are completely different styles of writing, but niether are poor or bad. Each writer has sold millions of copies of books to billions of different types of readers who like different types of genres. Just because I don't like that one style doesn't mean it's horrible. Theres been plenty of books that I have read that have gone down in history to be world renown and famous, but I couldn't finish the first chapter, so my points would be lower to someone if I went by the rubric.

On that note, the oppisite effect can occur. The judge may give extremely high points simply because they love that style or genre of writing. That is the immediate sign to label the system as broken.

*deep breath*

With all of that being said, the changes in the rubric should be little as a whole, but dramatic in what is done. Here is my suggestion...

First, the categories should be consolidated. There is no sense in so many that just reflect on the same shit. The categories will be brought down to 4 simple ones. Entertainment, Creativity, Realism, and Grammar.

I'll break them down for you, so that you can get a feel of what I'm saying...

Entertainment will be a 10 point system. You would find it lower than the rest, but that's only because if that genre isn't quite your cup of tea then it shouldn't just be horribly slandered for it.

Realism will be done on a 30 point system, because realism is something that should be done in any writing, no matter if it was entertaining or not. When the word realism is used, that means the way it was written could define the things that happened. Its basically that flow that was maintained.

Creativity will be done on a 30 point system, because every writer should be creative. This doesn't mean completely establish things that hasn't been done before. No, this is how well your story evolved. It is how well things had developed and prospered through the actions that made up the story.

Grammar will be done on a 30 point system, because lets face it, if you can't even do a proper spell check on your work, you shouldn't be rewarded. A writer should hold this as one of the most highest qualifications for a story. Does my work make sense and can be read? Its simple.

*breaths deeply*

Now, the judges who should take the system in, should be selected and given to people who are known to be fair and enjoy most anything. They should be someone who can look at that Dr. Suess book and laugh, or that Ann Rice book and feel chills, or the Tom Clancy novel and simply wonder how and why. These Roleplayer Moderators should be strict and stern to the system that is given.

I'm done for right now. If you respond with interest, then I may continue.

[Scrotus]

I agree fully with everything Caysim said above