Level Zero Profile (questions)

[Saxon]

The thing is, that approach works in a perfect world. On Althanas, you put something in front of a shitload of people and you get a shitload of opinions and never, and I mean NEVER, a clear consensus. Even with less than a dozen mods discussing a single issue we can't totally agree on something, let alone the entire community. Now imagine what happens when everyone gets their say and try to shape Althanas just the way they like it? Besides, this discussion and changes are borne out of the outcries of the community we heard over the time and we're trying to make some changes. Are we supposed to clear every little thing with the public of Althanas? It seems that no matter what we do nowadays there's always someone (and this is not aimed at you, Scrotus, your question was perfectly valid) calling bullshit and taking his turn to badmouth the staff. I personally don't really care anymore, but it's just getting old to ignore all the crap. (NOTE: Not the official standpoint of the Althanas Staff, someone more tactful will probably come around soon enough to provide one).

Anyways, as far as it goes right now skills will be classified mostly as knowledge of something, but what can be done with it will be defined in abilities. So even if you do like to put whatever adjective you want in front of the skill, you won't be able to cut through seven people and deflect bullets until you have it registered as an ability. You can claim to be a legendary mage at level zero, but your spells will be as strong as those of current level zeros. You can be a master archer at level zero, but your accuracy will still depend on what you register as an ability and not the adjective you use. And before you start slinging shit my way, this is Max's brainchild and it's still not clearly defined, so direct further inquires and the dung his way for a change because he probably has more definitive answers.

Luckily, this world may not be perfect, but it's more ideal then I thought. Before you decide to pull the rug completely out from under me, I want to say that my statement earlier was clarified and answered last night by Max. Why he won't post what he or somebody with actual authority won't post what he confirmed in the chatroom to diffuse whatever mysterious hostility you think I or others have for this grand idea, I still do not know.

However, for the sake of acknowledging the pink elephant in the middle of the room, I will.

What he confirmed was this; All of these changes you and the boys are in charge of developing have the deadline of Dec. 15th to be turned in. Ideally, this update will start on January 1st. Before that, something will be posted with the complete update to notify the community some time in December prior to the update which will shutdown the site momentarily. But, the point is that regardless, the community will be notified of the changes being made prior to when they are actually being made.

Jesus, what a long road to go for a simple answer. And if people aren't satisfied with this so far, the reason why an update hasn't been posted yet is because the content hasn't been finished yet. Granted, I still think that's a bit much, but if the list of the complete update is supposedly coming anyway, what's the point in arguing over it?

[Ailnea]

Now, I have a technical inquiry on that, which also doubles as pointing out a potential loophole/flaw in the system.

What about characters for whom there is no difference between know how and ability?

A wizard/magic user of choice (and there be plenty on the site) already has the ability to use magic. The only real limit is the lack of knowledge of differing spells.

For example, the only thing stopping Xos from using the magic spell "Tremor" to create small localized earthquakes is the fact that he doesn't know the spell. He knows the concepts and theories behind Earthquakes and what causes them, but he doesn't actually know the spell.

So, how are situations like that going to be addressed in the new era?

[Elrundir]

I think that situation boils down to semantics, after a fashion. What Max seems to be saying (I apologize if I misunderstood) is that what a character knows how to do is irrelevant in the eyes of the system. In other words, your character might know the theory behind creating earthquakes. He might even know how to do it. He might even claim he's able to do it. But if he doesn't have it specifically listed on his profile as a skill/ability, and have it approved by the RoG mods, then he can't do it.

What it boils down to, then, is IC justification for why that is so, and I figure there are a number of different ways of doing that. Maybe he knows how but isn't powerful enough to perform the spell yet; that personally would be my way of explaining it, I think, since it also ties in well with our leveling system. Maybe he knows the basics but doesn't understand the specifics well enough to actually put the spell together (similar, perhaps, to someone who knows the basics of how a car works but nevertheless has no idea how to build, or maybe even fix, one). The actual reasons will probably differ from one character to the next, so I figure the choice is up to the individual player.

[Duffy]

And that is why Elrundir gets a cookie, and the rest of you do not .

[Elrundir]

Thank god, I'm starving. *noms*

[Max Dirks]

Ailnea, all forms of magic are considered abilities and will be moderated accordingly.

The hangup in our discussion was over things like swordsmanship, marksmanship, lockpicking, cooking, singing, etc. (i.e. skills that would have a direct affect on others in competition in real life ((due to differing amounts of knowledge)), but not on Althanas). There is no way to regulate knowledge on this site without limiting creativity, so we've decided that knowledge related "skills" will not be important. Knowledge related "abilities," on the other hand, will.

EDIT: Basically, we're not regulating the WHY or the HOW; we're regulating the WHAT. So your mage can know the cosmos, but at level one he can't use it to bring down a meteor to destroy your opponent.

Also, let me remind everyone that when I say "will not be regulated," I mean in the ROG only. Powergaming rules, particularly the part that refers to fairness will be enforced in all aspects of the game. This includes regulation with respect to "skills." If you use superior tactical knowledge to pin your opponent into a position he does not want to be in citing only that knowledge, you'll lose points. For example, I lost points for manuevering Dirks right behind Thoracis in my LCC battle with him. I play Dirks as a perfect shot (perfectly acceptable back in the day), so I tried to increase my chances of hitting by firing at point blank range. At this point, he would have lost points if he would have dodged because of how unrealistic it would have been. Though I didn't bunny, I did powergame and I lost points accordingly. On the other hand, if I would have manuevered Dirks to his position over the course of a few posts, letting Thoracis know that's what I intended, it would not have been powergaming.

See what I mean?

[Rayse Valentino]

It amuses me that people care so much about such frivolous issues. Then again, my solution is to just ignore the system entirely. Feel restricted? IGNORE IT. Give a good IC reason you can do something in the thread you're doing it in, get permission from the other opponent if you want to powergame, and have at it. I said in another thread that you don't need the staff's permission to change the regions, and you don't need it to play your character either. I've yet to see anyone have points taken off for doing anything out of their means, much less anything with decent enough reason.

Honestly, there are so many more important issues, but everyone has to focus on the 'oh god we must stop this Orwellian nightmare' ones instead of the ones that actually take effort and work to fix.

[Scrotus]

Pointless Thread + Rayse Useless Input = ???

Ignoring the system is not a good solution. If it were that easy there wouldn't be a system in place to begin with. I know you try to present that rebellious, teenager mentality in every OOC thread, but when are you going to realize it's not really that cool? Or even useful, for that matter.

Honestly, there are so many more important issues, but everyone has to focus on the 'oh god we must stop this Orwellian nightmare' ones instead of the ones that actually take effort and work to fix.

What issues have you brought up? What does the ego-maniac Rayse deem as "a more important issue?" I had a question, it was answered, and the information discussed and brought up by the rest of the community was pretty useful. As it stands, the only black sheep in this thread is you, Rayse. Just because your complex doesn't allow you to be concerned with the community as a whole, doesn't make the issues brought up and discussed any less important than any others. People showed interest in this "frivolous" topic because there was obviously answers they needed or wanted.

[Rayse Valentino]

Sorry, I forgot about all your amazing contributions to the site's content, and just remembered your near-meaningless semantic argument about word usage in skills. My message was not to take everything in the profile literally and seriously. The actual content of your profile takes a backseat to what you want to do. Do first, worry about consequences later, and if everyone thought like this we wouldn't have 50 threads each with 900 pages of discussion and instead we'd have actual content, maybe even some quality.

People like you are the reason people think it's great that half the site's regions are stuck in canon limbo and two words change in the RoG guidelines.

[Max Dirks]

And Rayse and Scrotus are now on a final warning for flaming. Look guys, first and foremost Althanas 3.0 is about bringing in fresh blood. We'll never be able to do that if the vets can't respect each other enough to keep their discussions of this sort private. One more incident from either of you and the ban will be permanent.