So we don't choke the cell thread...

[Dissinger]

Lets dicuss the RoG rules here guys. No sense in further derailing the thread.

My take on the RoG update rules is this, if you got an ability during a quest or battle you can keep using it as awarded. However, for you to gain any "auto-level" increases, you need to submit a profile. Until you have updated your level really doesn't change. The idea that you didn't have to submit an update was more for people who sit there and have nothing truly to report. Things like swords that grow stronger as the wielder does and such need to be regulated by RoG and it is their perogative to say "sorry this level you don't get that."

With that out of the way I feel the change only enhanced what was already there. If you quest for abilities and such, you can make use of them, but for people that have level cantrips, you need to update so it gets balanced if the need should arise.

[Max Dirks]

I'll say this once, it's quite simple:

The rule for tournaments is that you play through the tournament at the level you are at when it begins. You can only use new character abilities if you gained them in the tournament battle, not through mid-tournament level ups. This is to maintain continuity in tournaments (since the actual event probably only takes a week or so in IC time)

This was written as a general rule on the original tournament handbook, but then when Matt re-wrote it for the FAQ for some reason the rule was stripped. In a normal circumstance, hushpuppy would be stripped of the title and disqualified for powergaming, but since the rule was not made abundantly clear he will retain his win. However, this is how tournaments will be played in the future.

Do not cheat, I will find you!

[Slayer of the Rot]

I'll say this once, it's quite simple:

The rule for tournaments is that you play through the tournament at the level you are at when it begins. You can only use new character abilities if you gained them in the tournament battle, not through mid-tournament level ups. This is to maintain continuity in tournaments (since the actual event probably only takes a week or so in IC time)

This was written as a general rule on the original tournament handbook, but then when Matt re-wrote it for the FAQ for some reason the rule was stripped. In a normal circumstance, hushpuppy would be stripped of the title and disqualified for powergaming, but since the rule was not made abundantly clear he will retain his win. However, this is how tournaments will be played in the future.

Do not cheat, I will find you!

He'll probably rape you, too.

[Storm Veritas]

I'll say this once, it's quite simple:

The rule for tournaments is that you play through the tournament at the level you are at when it begins. You can only use new character abilities if you gained them in the tournament battle, not through mid-tournament level ups. This is to maintain continuity in tournaments (since the actual event probably only takes a week or so in IC time)

This was written as a general rule on the original tournament handbook, but then when Matt re-wrote it for the FAQ for some reason the rule was stripped. In a normal circumstance, hushpuppy would be stripped of the title and disqualified for powergaming, but since the rule was not made abundantly clear he will retain his win. However, this is how tournaments will be played in the future.

Do not cheat, I will find you!

Very simple and concise, fair to both hushpuppy and future tournament competitors (although this should be posted at tournament startups).

The only thing I don't like about this post is that it pretty much dissolves the need for further discussion about the decisions made.

[Vorin]

He'll probably rape you, too.

See, now I'm conflicted on whether to cheat in a tournament.

[Serilliant]

You can't be raped, Cory. You'd flop on your belly for a yeti. Or Ithermoss.

[Futsuriai]

Sorry to seem like I disagree with you all the time, Diss, (or am I? Bwhahahaha) but this idea is ridiculous. It means that if I gain Ultima at the end of a quest I can use it but if I say "For every level above 1 he can make a tiny rubber ball" I can't unless I specifically make a level up? What gives?

Regardless, I actually meant to go along with the title of the thread. I don't like the ROG's supremacy in character control as is, I've always believe for updates the ROG should just be a repository of information and a place to detect abuses. The judges who hand out rewards should simply decide if the quest merited what is being asked for, that's it. If I deserved Doomstruction why would I lose it when I leveled up if it's "Too powerful"? If it was too much for the quest I made I simply shouldn't have been awarded such a skill. In a seemingly contradictory vein I think the ROG should step in in cases where the judge was either misled (through ambiguous wording) or unable to fully see the ramifications of his actions. For the latter I can use the example of two skills:

Nightwind: For 5 minutes a curtain of unlight descends blocking off all light, plunging the region into total darkness (i.e. nightvision is useless, there's no light). This blinds everyone including the user.

Echolocation: For 5 minutes the user loses all sight and gains a primitive ability to use echolocation to build a world picture, small details cannot be resolved but a rough outline of the surroundings can be constructed.

Voila! Neither skill is too powerful and don't attack the theory by saying either is since they're an on-the-spot example but together they're pretty cheap. Otherwise I say skills gained at the end of quests are implicitly approved as are any "when I level up x happens" when x is a well-defined event. I don't see why I need to specificy a branching condition and then keep track of it for everyone if it's simply defined. Personally I've sworn off level numbers, supposed level strengths, and the like but I do agree they serve as useful markings and while I would personally make a skill "As his power grows x" and explicitly request the change when it happens or at a level up I don't see why "At level up x" is any different in practice. If that was too much then don't allow it, if it becomes too much in addition to another skill it's the same scenario as the two above except there they're individual gained skills and not incremental ones.

Hope this makes sense and that someone up high agrees. Then again...people did agree with the wiki and said it was coming late this month but, and I hope I'm wrong, somehow doubt this is happening. Sigh.

[Cyrus the virus]

The reason, Futty, is so that the quest judge doesn't have to keep track of every other ability you gain in between levels. A judge should have no problem approving a rather powerful ability for a level 6, but what if he's gotten similar abilities from every other quest he's done in between 6 and 7?

Also, nobody ever has an ability where they gain one rubber ball per level. Nobody. It's always something a bit more than that, and at higher levels, it can get pretty ridiculous.

[Daggertail]

I am sorta in the middle on this but I’m going to lean in the direction of Futsuriai. I think the ROG mods are needed to keep someone from earning 3 powerful mass destruction spells that he could then cast in a row to make any character have a headache to think how in hell they’re going to get out of this one. But the problem is that the mods can get pretty anal about certain things, like guns and the like. It’s just that I think the mods need to lighten up a bit and let people play the characters they want within reason. There’s a serious lack of trust between the mods and the players and it needs to stop, if someone uses the gun or spell unfairly that it guarantees the opponents loss he’ll really get screwed in the score under strategy, rising action and wildcard. That alone will keep the problems of having an invincible character that always wins a fight with no trouble but still if you want a gunman character, you better write a damn JC and hope to god that the RoG thinks you’re worthy of the new piece and same for a spell that does more than burn things.

[Letho]

I personally think that all abilites, both those earned in a quest and those earned at level up should be approved by a RoG mod before the character can use that. So yes, I think RoG should have more power over the character creation/update. That means waiting until the update to use any skill you might've acquired during the quest. I like playing things by the book, I like a clean set of rules that plugs as many loopholes as possible.

While it seems like a good idea to give much more freedom to the players and let the judges decide what's powergaming and what's not, in practice I don't think that would work very well. The judges, beside having to watchful about 10 different categories during their reading, would now have to take all the abilites in consideration and evaluate whether or not was the usage of them powergaming. Sometimes this would work well. Sometimes they would miss a thing or two and I assure you that the person that loses the fight would not appreciate it.

The fact of the matter is, if you allow more lenience, you leave a larger loophole. I don't think this is a matter of luck of trust between the mods and the players; I suspect on mods and players alike to jump through the loophole occasionally if it's possible. But maybe I'm just a suspicious kind of guy.