Writting in other settings

[Connor Lacuna]

Well, it seems that there are three options to take, as far as backstory goes.

1: Go on a two-week bender with the staff and a couple volunteers, and churn out a well-established backstory.
a) You then proceed to make that official canon and judge continuity and setting based upon that
b) You judge the quality of the writing in context, making 'setting' a matter of detail and 'continuity' a matter of intelligibility.

2: Forsake the backstory, making it either irrelevant to the rules and the judges, or deleting it entirely.
a) This opens the option of releasing the wiki to the likes of the common users, at which point there would either be intelligent world-building or an impossible-to-contain shitstorm over everything.
b) Or, you could just not have anything beyond a bare-bones setting, and allow for the maximum amount of creative control.

3: Leave everything how it is, in a remarkable decision that it isn't worth the trouble.



I believe that nobody should get knocked for writing out-of-place, even to the extreme that Vigil did. His 'setting' wasn't in Althanas, but it worked for him, and as far as continuity went, I didn't see any problem. I haven't read all of his threads, either, but for what I saw it seemed well-written enough. I feel that the occasional romp through a decidedly non-canon setting should be judged fairly, but also that Althanas should be the core of the action here. It's up to the admins how it ends up happening in the end, I suppose. I just felt I should throw my two cents in.

[Visla Eraclaire]

Sei, shut up. All I was doing was telling people to stop being jerkface idiots and to be civil since no one else seemed to notice the direction this was/is heading. My opinions on the subject are just that, mine and I'm keeping them to myself. And at least my above post does something more than encourage a jerk to continue being a jerk.

Don't worry, I'm this way without any encouragement. Have been for years.

And let's get real here for a moment, nothing, not ONE thing has EVER happened on Althanas because someone made a quiet, polite request through official channels.

As far as practical solutions, yikes. I dunno if all my old threads from back when I had a stake in the site are still around, but I'll try to dredge them up.

On this topic, it's as simple as stop having anyone think that "Althanas canon" means anything and stop rating people down for being creative outside of the little box you built.

Frankly though, this particular topic is the tip of a very big iceberg. There are numerous underlying issues, but the one that is most exemplified by this thread I think is the historical disconnect between staff and members. Lots of people have been on both sides, but the most irritating thing that always stuck in my craw when I was on staff was the idea that showing dissent in public while on staff was completely unacceptable and staff conversations were to be completely secluded away from the general populace.

Alright J Edgar, you aren't running a fucking secret government agency. It's a message board. Althanas needs to be culturally less top-down and more open. It needs to be a community with those willing to give their time to help the community from different angles rather than a rigid class system with those on the "inside" feverishly clinging to their staff secrets. There's nothing interesting going on in the staff forum ever, but heads have rolled for giving away so much as of a whiff of the stupid crap that goes on in there.

If the community writ-large felt a larger investment in the site and an ability to move things forward, write their own stories the way they want to and get feedback from a community of interested like-minded people, that would be great.

Frankly, the tired rules and level system seem as silly and quaint as a rotary phone. Althanas will always be a game to some people, but frankly, I think it would be better off letting those people make their own rules amongst themselves. Limit powers and abilities for tournaments and "battles" as a matter of agreement between the participants. That's all it really ever is anyway, even if judges are "enforcing it." For everyone else, do what you will, enjoy it, get your feedback, grow your characters and build a community.

Make Althanas a place where if you have a good idea, the staff will facilitate making it happen rather than drowning it in the cesspit that is committee decision maiking.

Edit: I'm being frankly frank. Frankly.

[Rayse Valentino]

Continuity should be a category that judges consistency, not how well it adheres to Althanas canon. Were your character's or the other actions in the thread consistent with the world that was crafted? Are your own characters' actions internally consistent? That's what continuity is supposed to be, I thought. Sei is right about his view on continuity.

The setting category, I think, is pointless. I mentioned it before. There used to be a category called dialogue and it was done away for the same reason setting should be: Lack thereof does not indicate low quality. Writers should not include setting for the sake of setting alone, it's an element of the story. The quality of Story is affected by Setting, so really what you're doing is ripping an element out of Story and giving it its own half-assed category. I suggest either getting rid of it and going with a 90-point rubric or replacing it with something else. Maybe it's difficult because you made Story a 10-point category when really the whole thing is Story. It's vague. Maybe get rid of Setting, and divide Story into Conflict and Resolution. Most of the loss of points happens when the conflict isn't believable, or when it's resolved in a contrived way.

My original suggestion was to change rubric and the very style of judging from a 'divvy up all the points at the end' to 'assign points as you go', instead designing a rubric where the categories follow chronologically as you're reading the thread. Introduction, Rising Action, etc.

Anyway this is relevant to setting because it's being treated as a separate thing when it's really very intimately connected to the story. When you're doing a thread, are you thinking about interaction? Are you thinking about strategy? No, you're doing what every other writer does, and consider how the thread flows. Is this part too long? Too short? How do I move the plot along in the best way possible? It's very strange that the current system of judging has a judge thinking very differently from the writer of the thread due to the nature of the rubric categories.

[The International]

See? That shit is beautiful.

[Connor Lacuna]

Continuity should be a category that judges consistency, not how well it adheres to Althanas canon. Were your character's or the other actions in the thread consistent with the world that was crafted? Are your own characters' actions internally consistent? That's what continuity is supposed to be, I thought. Sei is right about his view on continuity.

The setting category, I think, is pointless. I mentioned it before. There used to be a category called dialogue and it was done away for the same reason setting should be: Lack thereof does not indicate low quality. Writers should not include setting for the sake of setting alone, it's an element of the story. The quality of Story is affected by Setting, so really what you're doing is ripping an element out of Story and giving it its own half-assed category. I suggest either getting rid of it and going with a 90-point rubric or replacing it with something else. Maybe it's difficult because you made Story a 10-point category when really the whole thing is Story. It's vague. Maybe get rid of Setting, and divide Story into Conflict and Resolution. Most of the loss of points happens when the conflict isn't believable, or when it's resolved in a contrived way.

My original suggestion was to change rubric and the very style of judging from a 'divvy up all the points at the end' to 'assign points as you go', instead designing a rubric where the categories follow chronologically as you're reading the thread. Introduction, Rising Action, etc.

Anyway this is relevant to setting because it's being treated as a separate thing when it's really very intimately connected to the story. When you're doing a thread, are you thinking about interaction? Are you thinking about strategy? No, you're doing what every other writer does, and consider how the thread flows. Is this part too long? Too short? How do I move the plot along in the best way possible? It's very strange that the current system of judging has a judge thinking very differently from the writer of the thread due to the nature of the rubric categories.

This pretty much solves the problem of setting, doesn't it?

[Mistletien]

Continuity should be a category that judges consistency, not how well it adheres to Althanas canon. Were your character's or the other actions in the thread consistent with the world that was crafted? Are your own characters' actions internally consistent? That's what continuity is supposed to be, I thought. Sei is right about his view on continuity.

I would dare to say that there's no real problem with this; at least, that I have seen. Judges seem to be using Continuity as exactly that. I can't think of a thread I've read where Continuity has been treated as canon-only by the Judge.

The setting category, I think, is pointless. I mentioned it before. There used to be a category called dialogue and it was done away for the same reason setting should be: Lack thereof does not indicate low quality. Writers should not include setting for the sake of setting alone, it's an element of the story. The quality of Story is affected by Setting, so really what you're doing is ripping an element out of Story and giving it its own half-assed category. I suggest either getting rid of it and going with a 90-point rubric or replacing it with something else. Maybe it's difficult because you made Story a 10-point category when really the whole thing is Story. It's vague. Maybe get rid of Setting, and divide Story into Conflict and Resolution. Most of the loss of points happens when the conflict isn't believable, or when it's resolved in a contrived way.

I have to disagree with the Setting part; at least, the statement that it is pointless. However, I do agree with the latter part of that area; "Lack thereof does not indicate low quality". It is the same thing as individuals mixing quantity with quality when it comes to overall writing; something I strongly push against and disagree with. That said, I do believe Setting is an important part of the rubric; just that it should be Judged not by how many times someone says 'the grass was green', but perhaps how well they drove a picture into the reader's mind. How well they placed this area and how not just their character but the life (or lack of) around them integrated with it. Many good authors have been able to do this with a mere couple of sentences, embracing not just sight but smell, taste, etcetera to ascertain the environment. So yes, on that point, I disagree with Rayse.

Which moves me on to the Story point, in which, again, I disagree with him; or at least the point that Setting is an integral part of Story. It's...debatable. However, I feel for Althanas purposes, no; especially if Judges were indeed to separate it into Conflict and Resolution, which is an interesting idea...but one I don't see being implemented. Purely for cynical reasons, so I won't state them. That said, I believe a good story can be told without having to force imagery into a reader's mind; that is the beauty of imagination, and 'leaving it up to them'. Again, this is all my opinion, so take it as you will.

My original suggestion was to change rubric and the very style of judging from a 'divvy up all the points at the end' to 'assign points as you go', instead designing a rubric where the categories follow chronologically as you're reading the thread. Introduction, Rising Action, etc.

Anyway this is relevant to setting because it's being treated as a separate thing when it's really very intimately connected to the story. When you're doing a thread, are you thinking about interaction? Are you thinking about strategy? No, you're doing what every other writer does, and consider how the thread flows. Is this part too long? Too short? How do I move the plot along in the best way possible? It's very strange that the current system of judging has a judge thinking very differently from the writer of the thread due to the nature of the rubric categories.

Hmm. The latter part of this paragraph has me thinking. I'll restrain comment for the time being.

[Letho]

I find it rather funny that the rubric is probably the one feature of Althanas we change most often, and yet it's still one feature of Althanas that people complain about the most. From my experience there is no perfect solution nor will there ever be one. Every new rubric has its proponents when it's all shiny and fresh, and then after a while people start complaining about it again and all you really end up doing is nipping a bit here and tucking a bit there and doing it all over again after a while.

Well, that's what I think anyways. I don't really care much about it, to be frank, and it's not the reason why I made this thread. This isn't to say that I discourage the arguments about it, just that I don't really care one way or the other, because I think the current rubric is good, just as I thought that the old rubric was good, and the one before it. Because I'm pretty sure that if you ran a single thread through three different iterations of the rubric, you'll probably get a scores within five points of each other. But by all means, discuss.

The main idea behind this thread, however, was simply to feel the pulse of Althanas when it came to "other settings", because I brought up an idea in the mods section about creating a section of Althanas where such settings would not only be allowed, but encouraged. I'm rather happy with the turnaround, to be honest, and the rather obvious interest in these "other settings".

[Rayse Valentino]

We already have that forum, it's called Outlands.

[Letho]

Yes, there are Outlands, but it doesn't give you full liberty. Your character abilities and equipment are still limited by the rules of Althanas Proper and whichever setting you conjure is still generally considered a part of the Althanas we all know (since Outlands by the current definition are just uncharted parts of Althanas). Sure, there are ways around that, but the fact that you have to find ways around the system in order to write something you want hinders a writer instead of encouraging him. And you can't really add more freedom to the Outlands without breaking Althanas "The Game".

Instead, the idea was to have a part of the site where the Althanas as we know doesn't really matter as far as you can provide a substitute of your own. It would allow writers to explore whichever alternate iteration of Althanas they prefer, at any point in time they prefer, and more. The characters would naturally have to be governed by a different set of rules than on Althanas proper, because you can't use the same rulebook on the characters running around Althanas right now and character running around Althanas in two thousand years or something. But because of the malleability of such world(s), the rules would be surprisingly lax, more common sense than the restrictions we would still have on Althanas proper.

Now, some might say that it would be best to eliminate restrictions altogether, but there's the problem of EXP. It's sort of been the fuel that keeps the Althanas engine running, and by eliminating all restrictions, you eliminate its importance. Of course, some may be proponents of just that, but that would completely eliminate the "game" part out of Althanas. And I'm not sure everybody would be fine with that.

[Visla Eraclaire]

As I told Sei, most of Althanas' rules exist merely to justify themselves. The whole rules system is a house of cards and serves little purpose.

I think that bolder things are necessary than just this, but having free writing that will get judged would be a start.

I'm like Letho in that I think trinkering with the rubric is a waste. Unlike him, I think they're all a pile of shit, but I agree that you'd get the same score under any of them because judging is subjective and most judges I know back into their scores based on their impression of the thread. All the rubric does is hand them flimsy justifications for their intuitions if they're bad or constrain their criticism if they're good.

I think that EXP has a carrot to keep people going is getting stale. The forum needs to be willing to experiment and try different things, and I don't mean just having an administration circle jerk to decide about "4.0." I mean letting members with ideas implement them if they show promise and not putting all your eggs in one basket.

People tend to think of things on the internet in physical terms like Althanas is a big warehouse, and if we use part of it for something and it doesn't work out that space is "wasted." Of course that's not true. We're in no bandwidth danger with this kind of a population and forum content isn't particularly large in terms of data, so we have a lot of room here.

Althanas should let enterprising people homestead, experiment, see what works and what doesn't and popularize and encourage what seems to be working. Keep the "core" game running if you must, but it really is adapt or die time.