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Thread: Workshop: Victor Valentine: Life and times in Archen

  1. #1
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    Workshop: Victor Valentine: Life and times in Archen

    Thread Title: Victor Valentine: Life and times in Archen
    Name of Author: Good for Nothing Captain
    Type of Thread: Quest
    Post Length: 19 posts
    Feedback Rewards: (Post Length of Thread/10) * ((EXP Needed to Level)*0.05) EXP
    Date Closed: 7th of July 2017

    Critique Guidelines:

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    Good for Nothing Captain has also requested a full judgment for this thread, which is under way.
    Last edited by Philomel; 06-22-17 at 03:46 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Hi the GFNC! How are ya? This will probably be the most useless bit of feed back you're going to get. Lets go!

    Story:

    Storytelling: (10 Points) Forgive this I have been told to criticize more so my biggest complaint is this. Wall of words for some reason people on forum based RPG's all over the internet thing that "lots of words" = "good story". While this can be true and I have read a lot of novels I don't exactly agree that "lots of words" = "good story" in fact for me looking at a screen the more I read the faster my eyes gloss over. A lot of your posts were a bit drawn out. Details are good too many details bog the story down.

    Setting: (10 Points) To continue from above details are good but man in your first post I could probably have felt how cold it was with about two thirds of the details. That being said by and large you did the setting right and proper plenty of detail in every corner of your world. The snow, the heat, how beat up you were it was all there by the truck load.

    Pacing: (10 Points) In places you wax poetic. In other place you wax very poetic. The pacing for me any ways was slow I'm sorry to say. It's all about how much detail you put into your story. Don't get me wrong a slow pace has its place where the author wants to convey how the protagonists are feeling at the time such as being at see in a dead calm for day, weeks, or months. I got the impression you wanted a bit of a quicker pace like what one would find on a cross desert journey you can see the scenery change but still feels like forever to get there.

    Character:

    Communication: (10 Points) Oh you communicated well. Through your ample use of adjectives I knew how cold you were, how hot you were, how banged up you were. There was not a time where I was confused about what was going on. Good job man your communication was pretty good.

    Action: (10 Points) Action needs to be detailed but not so much so that it's a slog through adjectives. Your action leaned on the more sloggy bits; and then we come to this
    uck, weave, hit. Weave, parry, hit. Hit. Hit. Hit.
    I am reminded of Robbin Hood: Men in Tights "parry parry dodge thrust! Again!" or something like that. This could have been left out and just suggested as what you did. Actual connections and combat moves are difficult to describe in written form and it can turn comical quickly.

    Persona: (10 Points) This is a solo so its nothing about persona. It's about you! You you you you you! Reading through your thread has given me a pretty good idea of what kind of guy your character is. He is violent, he has rules, he has a very particular set of skills. Skills you have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make you a nightmare for people like the drunks you fought.

    Prose:

    Mechanics: (10 Points) Me fail engrish! thats unpossible?

    Clarity: (10 Points) Your writing style is very clear in spite of all my bitching about your wall of words and details I enjoyed reading your thread. It took some time to get traction but once I got to the bar fight it clipped on a bit quickly and clearly. As I said above there was no point in the thread where I was confused.

    Technique: (10 Points)
    After pouring the waste out of the window, into the waste management system,
    I finally have something to say here! WEEE! Stuff like the above quote feels kind of redundant. you're pouring ~waste~ into into the ~waste~ management system. That's like saying I walked on the walking path. Personally how about next time try "after disposing of the garbage" it a bit less repetitive and doesn't feel redundant.

    Wildcard: You very particular set of skills. Skills you have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make you a nightmare for people like them.
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  3. #3
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    I forgive you for basically rewriting Gintama.

    Story
    Storytelling, Setting, and Pacing

    This is going to be rough for me, but I'll do what I can. I know I can't be impartial with this one since so much of the story seems a clone of the anime I know you dearly love. With that in mind, I look forward to your work when it is done in a unique and creative way. The most common way I saw this come up is that you didn't really do too much with setting as the thread went on. It was mentioned, but not brought to life. Some of the pacing also felt very anime-esque in that you cut from scene to scene. The story itself, for better or worse, was a rip. It does give you some practice in putting those stories into writing though.


    Character
    Communication, Action, and Persona

    I've always told you that I think this is your greatest strength, but the struggle will come when trying to create unique characters. Sure, all are based on someone or other that you've seen or met, but the degree of variation will increase over time hopefully. Even in role and appearance, many of these characters fell right out of the show, as well as their behavior. There was very little changed in them. Even your character was effectively a clone with a different hair/eye color.

    All the same, those character elements that make those characters who they are, you did bring into the writing. Hard for me to tell where you fell flat on this because my mind filled in the blanks.


    Prose
    Mechanics, Clarity, and Technique

    This is an area I can be a little bit more helpful with. Most of the rules I've told you by now given reading much of your work, and I know this was done over the span of years so some of that may have slipped through the cracks. Some easy tips for writing here though is to search your thread for any [ or ] that you may come across so you can capture any broken tags (which you had). Reading through a work, however draining, can also be worthwhile to capture any extra or missing spaces as well as scrubbing for any of those rule breaks we talked about.

    I'd recommend that, especially when starting your threads, you don't try to go overboard into story mode. It can be a little intense and heavy handed right from the onset and makes it difficult to engage the story. Work your way into it. Don't try to be epic right away, as it ends up serving the opposite role of your intentions. As you continued on, things settled in.

    As for clarity, again this might be difficult for me as you sort of emulated something that I've effectively seen. Sometimes asking yourself some simple questions about what a reader who has never touched your work (or the show in this case) might want to know that you may need to enlighten them about. All the same, don't swing for the opposite side of the fence and over-describe things that aren't that important.


    Wildcard

    A dense read, but enjoyable. Strangely it felt like rewatching the first episode (or couple, i don't remember). I look forward to seeing what you can do though when you're in unfamiliar territory and writing with other people and in areas you can't fill in. Your growth will come from collaboration.
    Last edited by SirArtemis; 07-06-17 at 08:58 AM.
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  4. #4
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    Story:
    The story follows the tale of a spitfire wanderer making it to a nasty town, breaking a few barrels, and saving the day. The descriptions throughout the story were pretty vivid and mixed with similes and metaphors (the first post is an excellent example.) The story starts with saying that wanderers can be anywhere, and at the end of the story it shows Victor moving on again. This story follows a small section of his life and what the events meant to him.

    I liked this story overall, although I personally found these posts a bit too long. I caught myself just glossing over some scenes several times, as the posts seemed to have no end. It is only when Victor leaves Alla looking for more work, as he's too much trouble to stay with her, that the story seems to get more plot heavy beyond "yeah, he's recovering from an injury and causing trouble."

    Character:
    I absolutely loved the long range of characters. Alla is a particular favorite. The siblings in the second half of the thread are also engaging, thanks to their tragic lives and vastly different personalities (it's directly stated that Angela has anger issues. Anthony is timid and cannot defend himself well.) Victor himself is a fun character. He is shown to have heroic tendencies here and there (rescuing Angela) but he still does things on his own terms and is prone to trolling others. The actions of the characters just add depth. Even Alla slapping Victor when she shows him the winery adds depth to their personalities.

    Prose:
    I absolutely loved the techniques in the first two posts! I practically squealed at the rich writing. Beyond them the story becomes more literal in style, but is still engaging. The bolded, all caps text for when Victor and Alla scream at each other was fun as well.

    One thing I did not enjoy, however, was close to the end. In the closing of the thread, the characters are referred to as "NPC's" and the fourth wall is broken. I suppose you were trying to be clever, and maybe this is just me, but it broke the story's immersion for me. Also, why would people make ice cream in a snowy country like Salvar? Ice cream is delicious, I know, but in freezing Salvar it seems just a bit strange…

    Once again, I loved the characters. Victor was excellent, although sometimes facepalm worthy. Excellent work with your vibrant cast!


    Wildcard:
    Overall, I loved this thread! Even if it seemed a bit drawn out at times, I thought it was a good read. I could vividly see the surroundings in your story and interact with them, I felt strong emotions for your characters (love for most of them, I wanted Harper dipped in tar and covered in feathers), and throughout it all Victor stays consistent to himself. Nice work!
    Last edited by Flamebird; 06-30-17 at 11:50 AM.
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  5. #5
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    Meant to do this a while ago, but... here we go:

    Story
    Storytelling, Setting, and Pacing

    Setting is good. You used lot of descriptions to set up the milieu. You had some excellent phrases, alongside some odd ones. One of the odder ones off the bat is:
    "A man without a place can be any place. Overlooking a man without a presence is easy..."

    I knew what you were trying to get at, but the paragraph didn't quite flow. It's great to have imagery, but it's even better to have clear sentences.

    The overall story had a slow buildup, and the tension didn't start building up until post 11+. The first 10 posts felt like you were trying to establish a background for Victor and how he got to a new place, and introduce a bunch of characters. Not a bad idea, but it dragged on a little. I wasn't sure where the story started. It may be better if you either split the thread into two: an exposition piece for the setup, and then another one where it's faster-paced and revolved around the Anthony/Angela siblings storyline. Alternatively, start the story later and bake your expositions into flashbacks.

    Character
    Communication, Action, and Persona
    You come up with interesting concepts for characters, but each major character that's featured can probably use a little more development. Here's a good way to fill in your supporting cast a little more: describe what your character thinks of them.

    You have broad descriptions of your supporting cast, and you describe their actions, and sometimes you describe their personalities through other people's dialogue. You also describe Victor's external reactions to the supporting cast. However, one thing I noticed a lack of is the internal reaction from Victor. What does he think (and maybe don't say) about all these people? This can be a good way of both fleshing out your main character and your supporting cast.

    One of the things that I thought was a little strange was the capitalized dialogue. You have quite a few of these scattered throughout the thread. I'd rather see exclamations as opposed to fully capitalized sentences.

    Prose
    Mechanics, Clarity, and Technique

    Like I've mentioned from up top, there're a few awkward phrases here and there, alongside some good ones. I'll second Flamebird in saying that your first two posts had some very good imagery. One thing though -- in your first post, you switched perspectives between your character and the old woman. If you're going to switch perspectives, put in a visible breaker/marker so that the reader doesn't get confused.

    Also, the first half of your thread is description heavy, and the second half is dialogue heavy. Nothing wrong with that, but I think your second half could have used a little more description around the setting/action that's taking place. I'm filling in some of the setting/action in my head, as opposed to relying on your writing. Likewise, the first half of the thread could be thinned down a little, since a lot of it is setup, and you'll probably want to move through this a little faster. Personally, I think the meat of the story is in posts 10+, so I wish you had spent a little more time upfront with the Anthony/Angela pair to set up a little more empathy.

    When it comes to naming your supporting cast, it's a good idea to vary the starting letter. You have a lot of characters whose names started with "a", and that becomes hard to keep track of.

    Wildcard

    I see the Gintama thing SirArtemis mentioned after a second readthrough, haha.
    Last edited by Rogue; 06-27-17 at 03:30 AM.

  6. #6
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    Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far! Just a reminder that this workshop closes one week from now, and that Good for Nothing Captain has requested synopses of this thread in Archon's Vault.
    ... They fell to him as prey to bluefin
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  7. #7
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    Last chance to get reviews in before this workshop closes tomorrow!
    ... They fell to him as prey to bluefin
    for the Jya's warriors knew not how to swim...
    13-3-2

    I wrote a book! ~ Most Suave Character 2010

  8. #8
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    I enjoyed your entry in the March Vignette, so I figured I'd give this a read.

    I may get a bit sassy, but I still enjoy your style for the most part, and think you have some good potential.


    Story

    Other than the excessive description, and being a bit melodramatic, the first post was quite good. I think you chose a good place to start the story. That was a kind of frivolous scene with the tea in the second post; or at least, selling it like that. The melodramaticism remained strong.

    I think the third post is pre-mature and underdeveloped. After introducing one character, you jump to another, tossing out bait like 'her four rules for living in Archen' only to switch back to Alla. It almost feels like you're bribing the reader with interesting tidbits so they'll sit through a presumably unentertaining following scene.

    In hindsight, I dunno if the insinuation of the third post that Nova and Alla were separate people really worked. They were never at odds, so there was no tension, just confusion until the reveal clarified. The third post might've been better as a few paragraphs at the start of the following post, more clearly stating that Nova's Rest is the bar Victor woke up in.

    First three rules seem alright, if a bit vague, but that fourth rule is pretty open to interpretation. Should you appreciate the efforts of the people trying to kill you? If you don't appreciate the effort of someone you've never met, don't you break that rule? How can you appreciate their effort if you don't even know what it is?

    The 'older than the city line,' was regrettably predictable, and not very funny. You keep trying to do this thing where you cut to the exterior of a location to highlight the volume of an outrageous reaction, but you don't control how fast I move on to the next line. That kind of humor works fine in visual media, usually anime, because the cut is the same for everyone, but I don't think it works here. Not only is the formula too predictable, the pay-off isn't as quick as it needs to be. Written jokes really, really rely on the punchline; if that can't stand on its own, the joke usually falls flat. Reaction humor just doesn't work well in this medium, in my opinion.

    All these scene transitions early on is a bit jarring, without some kind of lead-in line like 'Later that night, he found himself...' I have no real grasp on the order these things are happening in, especially after the time-skip of post two. The joining thread of this story, Victor, just seems to be appearing in various different places, without a word as to the inbetween; I can't follow that line.

    The thug's purpose at the start of post seven was also obvious the moment he spoke, as was the outcome of the brawl. I question Nova's reputation, that the bar could just go wild like that, knowing she was coming back any time. Also, The 'repeat the four rules in the lead up to the bar fight' thing really didn't do it for me. A lot of that felt contrived to drag it out long enough for you to get another rule in. Why didn't Oaf just rush him immediately? Nova's return after the Stein fight was very predictable, and some of the reactions and imagery you used seemed distinctly out of place:

    All of them suddenly being awake and only playing dead was convenient, that they all made it to the entrance in that time her eyes were closed was also impressive, and they even formed a cartoon-like blob to block the doorway, yet Nova's kicks cleared them out. A lot of these mental images are distinctly cartoonish, and while that can work in some contexts, it's hard to work within the grimdark realism of the Althanas setting. Not saying you need to change it, just that it's not easy to pull off here.

    I really don't think the bar scene even accomplished much. You could've had Victor just hear about the 'extracurricular activity' from one of the patrons. There were literally no consequences at all, the place was cleaned up in one paragraph, and Stein is conveniently friendly with Victor.

    I assume this post is chronological, but he just ate 'dessert' last post, and now he's requesting ice cream? That not only seems excessive, it's also kind of out of nowhere. We're half-way through the thread, and now he suddenly has a weakness for sweets?

    Again with the ruffians at the bar trope? We literally had this same setup like three posts ago. The old 'messed up random badass in the corner's food' trope shows up as well. Also, throw a table at a guy for not hearing you; the guy who had nothing to do with the table hitting you? Seems a bit contrived.

    That Angela suddenly attacks him now, after they were just talking earlier, makes no sense, and of course Harper arrives just after we find out about him. If you keep introducing characters like this, you're going to keep killing any chance at building suspense. The pattern of 'learn something new, it immediately comes into play' keeps happening in this thread, and it got old very fast. Also, every woman in Archen is either tsundere, or flat maiden-in-distress.

    Okay, so the entire motivation of this plot is that Victor doesn't want to pay for damages to the bar he beat up Stein's goons in, and the guards believed that a kid beat up two mafia thugs. I much preferred the 'save Alexandria from William' angle it seemed to be leading to before. It was cliche, but it made more sense.

    The 'where I left my horse' like could be funny, if I hadn't already seen this 'outmatched cowering goon' thing like three times already in this thread. The jokes would work much better if they didn't require the same kind of set-up every single time.

    Where is the tension in this thread? Literally nothing Archen can throw at Victor even phases him, the biggest threat is that he might owe a guy for busting up his bar. Victor has to lose once in a while, or there's nothing to make the reader think that he might lose, and thus any 'fake-outs' you do like he did lose don't ever work. Not to mention, every fight scene has felt like bloated satire. I either laughed a little, or just waited for the obvious conclusion.

    "Sounds of sudden and effortless beatings echoed in the background while the two voices dialogued." - Literally telling us the beatings are 'effortless' is definitely killing that tension.

    The first half of the thread appears to have nothing at all to do with the second half. First it was all about Nova, then William and Alexandria were introduced, then an underling in Stein, who was then connected to a brand new bad guy Harper, with two brand new brats to save. And then the city is going to blow up, thanks to these Red Crow guys who came out of nowhere?

    This feels like a Micheal Bay movie; everything sacrificed for 'cool shots.' There are far more important and powerful tools at your disposal than copying the techniques used in your favorite anime.

    Okay, so despite the fact that Angela was mad at Victor solely for involving Anthony in the guard-chase, they apparently forgot it later that day, so that Anthony could calmly watch the guards arrest Harper. You'd think a guy like that would have a few guards paid off; to just get taken to jail is pretty unrealistic, and anti-climactic.

    The last scene with William De'tergent was really too little too late to make him feel relevant. There wasn't a consistent antagonist for more than a few posts in this thread, it just kept jumping to different problems and different motivations. Also, you had that whole evil scene of evil the post before this setting up his machinations, and then have him come down to talk to Victor, and share a moment of honesty. Those are two very different tones to jam so close together.

    This 'weight' Victor vowed to carry no longer remains as mysterious as the orange-eyed girl from before. The ending fits the thread, really, too many tones all thrown together haphazardly, which self-awareness and 4th-wall-breaking can't fix. I can't think of a single solid thing this thread actually did, because it tried to cover so many bases, none of them were adequately covered. It's alright to have a simple plot; that usually leads to better character development considering the extra time, and that is something you could definitely use.

    This whole thread was a mish-mash of various tropes, mostly from anime, seemingly thrown together with little regard for the logic. While a lot of it was written quite well, you can't polish a turd. Start with a more thought-out story, far fewer characters, and actually develop the ones you have, and I think your solid writing style could turn it into a very good thread. If the point of this all was to satire all these tropes, you needed to put more effort into subverting expectation with them; just showcasing them is too dry to be interpreted as satire.


    Setting

    Despite being perhaps a bit numerous, the descriptions in your first post are quite good. You use metaphor and simile strongly, despite lapsing into melodramaticism, and your control of color is also well done. This is your strongest area, and my only advice would be to spread it out more evenly throughout the thread. It'll help pacing, and reminding the reader of the setting often reinforces immersion, in my opinion. I do have a few notes, though.

    There's a bit of passive description with 'crunching sounds' and 'seemed endless,' and 'were frozen.' 'Sounds' is a bit redundant, the 'crunching' can echo on its own, and 'seemed' is usually unnecessary, and weakens the verb. There's a fair bit more passive description in the paragraphs to follow. You generally want to avoid passive voice, i.e. using 'was' or 'were,' and verbs that describe the perception of a thing, instead of the thing itself, like 'seemed.'

    "All the terrible cold and storms of Salvar could not take the candle's light, it seemed." - This is an example. It's like adding 'maybe' to the end of a statement; it just weakens the conviction. If you're going to exaggerate for a metaphor, hedging your bets with weak wording is counter-productive.

    "The sill, located just below his waist made it easy to sit." - While not necessarily bad, simply describing its position with dry terminology like 'located' or 'positioned,' misses out on more descriptive verbs that could also convey.location, like "The sill squatted/jutted/warmed/rotted just below his waist..."

    While I don't really buy the sudden affinity for ice-cream, you definitely described the hell out of it. That was a pretty great paragraph, though would've probably benefited from being split into two smaller paragraphs. The description got so sparse later on in the thread, though, that any instance of it was noticeable. The 'set it and forget it' mindset is difficult to get out of, but you need to 'check in' with the setting consistently to keep up the immersion.


    Pacing

    Despite the consistently short sentences in the opening paragraph, the description was a bit excessive, and some of it kinda redundant. First five paragraphs were pretty slow, and bordered on purple prose, on top of being a bit melodramatic. Felt like you were trying a bit too hard; sometimes stark and simple wording can portray the tone better than complexity.

    There was a lot of time wasted early on in this thread, and some posts that I think could've been removed entirely. Far too many dessert scenes as well, once that got started. Along with dragging during the boring parts to dump exposition, you sped up during the fight scenes, leaving them all feeling rushed and vague. This is basically the opposite of what you should be doing, in my opinion.

    If you're going to use fight scenes so often, at least make them good ones, and you should always decide if a reader needs to know something before explaining it. So many lines of dialogue, and indeed entire scenes, accomplished nothing significant to the actual plot. You've got to be ruthless with your editing to manage pacing, it's often the scenes we really want to shoe-horn in there that are the most out of place or unnecessary.


    Communication

    This is one of your stronger areas, and though a lot of dialogue was either exposition dumps, cliches, or attempted jokes, most of it was written well. Despite the character's themselves being fairly flat, their interactions remain mostly entertaining and appropriate.

    Nova's speech about Archen's history was pretty good; almost forgot it was an exposition dump. It has a similar style to the overly-dramatic descriptions of the first post, but the subject is more appropriate. You're not waxing poetic about snow and other mundane things, but actual war; the style fits the subject better.

    Anthony's lines to his sister sounded too suspiciously like some of the speeches you had Nova making earlier, and some of your description. I don't see such a quiet, underachieving kid having that way of speech. Also, some of your 'accents' were nigh unreadable at first glance; a little less wouldn't hurt.


    Action

    There were a lot of action scenes in this thread, but they were all repetetive and anti-climactic. Pretty much all punching, hardly any use of environment, except to trigger a trope or as a finisher. None of the fights stood out, because you didn't put any of the fighters on equal ground with Victor. You kinda did with Stein, but it was so vaguely described, that it didn't really mean anything. There were also logical inconsistencies from time to time.

    Victor donned an apron, collected all the ingredients, and created the first layer of a cake, in the forty seconds it took for the sibling's conversation to happen somehow. A f'king spoon knocked an entire crossbow out of someone's hand, which was interesting. And the end was especially confusing. What did he do, cut the gunpowder with his sword? Why did it explode? It may not be easy to write fight scenes, as Victor even said, but if you're going to have them so often, not putting in the effort only hurts the thread all the more.


    Persona

    3rd omniscient was used to good effect. I enjoyed the glimpse into the old woman's thoughts in the prose. I'm seeing a lot of similarities in character interaction between this and your vignette entry. As everyone has said; it feels like reading an anime; an over-written one.

    Alla was decently established as a stern mentor figure, and while she never becomes more than that, she's around for enough jokes that she's at least memorable by association. She, however, much like every other character in this thread, pretty much never moves beyond her established archetype.

    Though William and Alexandria are established as the 'evil boss' and 'damsel in distress' early on, neither really comes into play until right at the end of the thread, and both were very obvious when they were introduced.

    And now the 'quiet, good-hearted abuse victim' shows up in Anthony, and to suddently introduce this kid and shit all over him as quickly as possible doesn't really work. And then Anthony gets inspired by his newfound mentor to take control of his own life. All the tone wording and emotional body language doesn't cover up the predictable nature of these scenes.

    I seriously question Anthony's motivation, though. Why would he want to follow a guy who literally framed him? The only sides of Victor he's seen are his assholish side, and him fighting. If the kid just wants to learn to fight, there are many less assholish people to learn from. The melodrama of it was also excessive. Everyone seems to suddenly have a deep backstory whenever it would make for a slightly cool line.

    You are trying very hard far too late to make William an imposing villain in post eighteen, and completely over-writing his previously established personality. None of his verbosity is present in this scene, and he even 'stalks' a candle just to grind the metaphor in even more.

    Finally, Victor:

    Victor has a serious case of plot-armor. Everything goes his way, and when it doesn't, it's only for a joke, and there are never any long-term repercussions. At this point I have learned pretty much nothing about Victor except for the whole 'goofy good-hearted trickster' thing you keep repeating. He flip-flops on everything so often I don't even know what kind of character he is other than his archetype. He seemed naive at first with Alexandria.

    A name and a laugh, and there's suddenly a developing kinship between them. That is either some next-level naivete on Victor's part, or some suspiciously convenient chemistry.And then he blows perfect smoke-rings, even accurately describing the technique, and then says he hasn't done it before. Either again very convenient, or Victor working angle.

    I thought their 'immediate connection' was him being naive, but now he's sharp enough to catch on to the fact she's been cheating even though he's been high the whole time. You need to stick with a level of capability, this flip-floppin' is confusing. Also, the 'diabetes' thing, far from being a relatable character trait, seems more an excuse to add in filler scenes of him making/eating sweets.

    I find it hard to believe an apparent 'boss' like Stein is cleaning up with the rest of his minions; in fact, his minions aren't even in the scene. Everything about Stein seems like it's there just to set up a scene for Victor; even down to the 'getting along after a fight due to newfound respect' cliche. Stein is pretty much not even a character, he's a mirror for Victor.

    Victor's whole 'protect the thing in front of me' schtick only came about after meeting Anthony, and is of course the number one protagonist motivation in anime. What happened to the orange-eyed girl? That was a subtle, interesting tease, but nothing came of it.

    It's like Victor can only interact with people by fighting them, or saving them; by fighting. There's always some inept thug he can show his superiority over, who'll wait while he spits out one-liners, and Victor just wades through it all with none of it ever sticking to him. Victor is not a very well developed character; he's more like an ideal, a couple of familiar tropes thrown together because the reactions that kind of character has are entertaining, and rather than expanding on when those traits can cause true inconvenience, they're ignored when they don't jive with the current scene. A character's reactions should never be based on the kind of scene they happen to be in.

    You excel at giving all of your side-characters one notable personality trait or quirk, but that seems to be as far as you go. No one in this town feels like a real person, they're all either 'nice on the inside tough guys,' mindless thugs, or mindless victims. People are made of contradictions, to only show one side of a given character makes them exceptionally flat. The more I read this, the more I wonder if it is intended to be satire. Any character that isn't gone in one scene seems to flip-flop constantly.

    We need more time, and more varied examples of character behavior, to get invested into a character. I don't really care at all about Anthony or his sister, but they're suddenly the main side-characters. All I know of Anthony is his 'kid quietly takes abuse to come into his own later' archetype. I don't even know if that 'later' part happens in this thread, that's just a prediction.

    In summation, archetypes are a start, but you need to show more than one side of a character for them to feel real. It doesn't take a lot, just try to put yourself in their shoes and you'll probably come up with a few things.


    Mechanics

    I didn't bother with typos, I mainly stuck to the grammar issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Notes
    First Post
    "Imposing himself on the dark white nothing walked a lone soldier." - The clause 'imposing himself,' implies a subject to follow, and is usually seperated by said subject with a comma, like '...nothing, a lone soldier walked.' Good rule of thumb is to avoid two verbs in seperate clauses that modify the same subject right next to eachother; put the subject inbetween them.

    "As the cold froze more," - Usually this sentence is structured with clauses using different subjects, like 'As one thing happened, this other did too,' to show either a simultaneous time frame, or causal relationship. This sentence was followed by another clause describing the same thing, though; cold freezing more than skin and bone.

    "It never stopped but had merely" - At the very least, you should slap a comma on that 'but.' This is a little dramatic, though; i think it would work fine with only 'It had been muffled...' There was never any expectation from the reader that it had stopped, because this is the first time it's mentioned, so no real need to counter it with the 'never stopped' portion.

    "Around the old castle standing lonely in the center of the city," - This is followed by a clause describing the castle, rather than the expected subject/verb combo set up by 'Around.' 'Around the old castle, something happened.' I suspect you intended the subject to be the same as the last sentence, 'he,' but this is a new sentence, and it needs its own subject.

    "Standing alone in stark defiance, a faint beacon of hope." - In the same vein, you can only use the subject of a previous clause within the same sentence; adding the period turns this into a fragment.

    "Surrounded by the dead, brothers and sisters in arms" - In a similar vein, since 'he' is the one surrounded by the dead, it's expected that later in this sentence 'he' will do something, but it just continues with more description.

    "He could avoid a great old church, a history of pain and oppression reflected in its ornate windows." - This is a good example of the impact of whether you use 'a' or 'the.' 'The' establishes the object as definite and singular, this leads to the implication that the character has familiarity with this object, either in the past or presently. In description, this means using 'the' denotes to the reader that it's in the same place as is currently being described. Conversely, 'a' usually refers to something indefinite, and possibly plural, or from among a plurality. He can choose a street from many, but the one he is on is the current one. So, using 'a' here makes it seem as though he's talking about just any church, wheras 'the' would establish it's either in this city he's infiltrating, or a church from his past.

    "Time passed by and a blanket of snow..." - Usually dropping the comma before the conjunction is used to make things seem simultaneous, or to improve the flow of a chunky sentence, but this one would do much better with the comma before the 'and,' since it's literally about a long time passing; the pause of the comma helps convey that, so it seems too fast without it.

    "An old woman, tall and thin[,] strode through..." - Leaving off the closing comma makes the new subject/verb combo 'tall strode through.'

    A small note of no real matter, but that hyphen divider at the start of post one spills exactly three hyphens over onto the next line. While this has nothing at all to do with analyzing the thread, it bothers me to an excessive degree. The [ooc] tag could negate the need for the divider.


    Second Post

    "responding to the cold on the other side of the portal." - While not strictly incorrect, in a fantasy setting using 'portal' as a synonym is dubious at best. For doors it barely works, but it's very rarely used for windows.

    "A soft looking wooden seat with a hole in it," - Another example of an expected toilet-related subject/verb in the next clause that never came.

    "His dressing stuck out from under the sleeves which ended just above the forearms." - While not a 'hard rule,' most of the times a comma is expected before descriptors like 'which,' as they usually start a new descriptory clause.

    "tables scattered through the room. The room seemed bigger" - Though I can tell you try to avoid repetition, even more common nouns like 'room' can seem out of place if they're this close together.

    "The subtle flame served to both heat the room[,] and boiled the pots" - Though commas before conjunctions isn't a 'hard rule' outside of academic circles, it should still be the average choice, especially following a term like 'both.' Also, the following 'boiled' shouldn't be past-tense.


    Post Four

    "Mixed vegetables, cut up potatoes[,] and meats floated" - Lists require either commas inbetween all the members, or no commas except at the end, if the sentence continues.

    "Victor struggled to keep up, having to avoid many different appliances and hanging utensils in the kitchen narrowly." - Splitting the adverb 'narrowly' so far from the verb 'avoid' sounds unusual. Putting it at the end of the clause makes the reader re-imagine the scene in the context of the new information, so they have to stop and re-think the sentence. Smoothest to keep verbs and adverbs as close to eachother as possible.

    "Gradually, the sounds of Victor’s pain began to be an expected addition to the midnight melody to which the city fell asleep." - Lotta 'to's in this one, makes it kind of technical. This one could probably stand better split into two clauses with a comma, to avoid all this nested direct-object business. The reader always has to take a moment to unravel such nests in their mind before moving on.


    Post Five

    "None of the liquid splashed or spilled and eagerly found it's home in the ceramic cup." - Since 'and' is followed by a separate clause it should be separated with a comma, and it needs an 'it' as the subject of that second clause, otherwise it's saying 'None of the liquid found its home.' Also, you don't need the apostrophe for 'its,' lack of apostrophe for possession like 'it looked at its home,' apostrophe for the conjunction 'it is.'

    "Long hoses stretched from a glass bowl, [which was] filled halfway with water." - Paragraph thirteen - Without this phrase to redirect the subject of this second clause to the direct object of the first, the second clause would say 'Hoses filled halfway with water.'

    "He laid back, kicking his feet up on the table and let the soft cushions embrace him." - Needs either a comma before the conjunction to separate the clauses, or to change the verb of the second to 'letting.'

    "Very impressive," she clapped, "have you done this before?" - While I understood it, be careful using replacements for 'said' that aren't actual speaking verbs. Some people may take them literally on first read, and be caused some confusion for it.


    Tenth Post

    "The army demanded indulgence at every step, from sight..." I believe 'from' should be 'in,' since you can't really 'indulge from' something, and though you can 'demand indulgence from' a person, demanding indulgence from the thing you're indulging in is a bit confusing.


    Incompletes

    "over the top of the sofa. Rest at last." - Second Post, Sixth Paragraph, an incomplete sentence. A semi-colon would solve this one perfectly; usually does; like the following:

    "A place where someone listened was a rare treat in Archen. Where one" - Third Post, Third Paragraph; another case where substituting the period for a seim-colon would complete the following fragment.

    "...stream of smoke[; substantially less than before, but the smoke held its shape longer. Victor enjoyed watching the smoke dance" Post Five, Paragraph Sixteen - The second sentence is incomplete without the semi-colon, or its own subject, like 'It was.' Also, the repetition of 'smoke' was noticeable.

    "Right up until he found anything else to do." Post Ten, Paragraph One - Another incomplete; again a semi-colon is recommended.

    "Because Victor loved a strawberry sundae." Post Ten, Paragraph Five - Same.

    "Detouring to eye-level so he could admire the dessert for a moment before enjoying it." Post Ten, Paragraph Six - Same

    Clarity

    Awfully kind of Steinhardt to not only wait for all his minions to be defeated, but to play word-tennis with Victor spouting Nova's rules, in Nova's bar, that he and his men are trashing when she's likely on her way back, in a town where she knows everyone, and apparently most of them owe her favors. Why is Steinhardt doing this, again?

    I never have any idea of the timeline when you jump into the middle of scenes at the start of nearly every single new post. At the end of this one you mention he's been there five months, but I don't know how long he was there before the bar-fight, so this could be the next day, or months later for all I know. Because of that, he's thinking of finding a new job at the end of this post, but I don't know if he just ignored what Stein said, or this was maybe before that.

    Angela is talking about how they're free the post before, and then just quietly accepts paying off the debt to the loanshark. Also, for being 'surrouned by seasoned fighters,' Angela's punch found Harper without much trouble.

    "It took him a moment, but finally, he recognized the hostess Ashley who had swindled him." - The name 'Ashley' caused some confusion, as you might imagine.

    "Alexan- or should I say, Angela, is a valued worker and hostess." - Considering she was accidentally called 'Ashley' when the connection was made, this was novel information on my first read-through. Just stating connections like that once can lead to them being forgettable, as well. Dwelling on it a bit more, or reminding the reader later, might help details like this.


    Technique

    Most of these are isolated concerns. I saved the only consistent thing for last.

    Your opening paragraph had a bit of repetition, with 'wind,' and 'white;' especially the latter; and 'snow' later on. This isn't too prevalent, but it's something to keep in mind. Also, with this line late in the thread:

    "kitchen door?!” Victor called back. Angela and Anthony exchanged concerned looks and made a break for the kitchen door. As the siblings passed through the doorway to the kitchen" Post Twelve, Paragraph Eighteen - The repetition of 'kitchen' and 'door' was noticeable. Three is usually that threshold. Our minds recognize three-fold repetition immediately, since it's so commonly used in poetry, so repeating any word three times draws attention to it. It's best to avoid that unless on purpose. This doesn't apply to the most common words, like 'the' and 'to;' those are more or less invisible.

    The whole scene with pastry dude was an obvious exposition dump. It becomes more obvious when you use one-off characters to do it. The only thing gained by it was maybe a small amount of humor, and an unsurprising revelation that Victor doesn't pay his tabs. These are the kinds of things you could just slip into the narration, to give the reader some context that Victor has gained in his time here. Jumping to a time when he already knows something, and can think of it to inform the reader, is not unreasonable.

    His reputation quip at William De'tergent's hesitation seemed ill-deserved and early. That's that kind of line that works better over time, rather than trying to squeeze out a payoff that quickly.

    The 'average' rant leading up to the reveal that the kid's nickname was actually 'Average' felt too over-done to really be funny; by the time we got to the kid, it was played out. You also only even use it once after that post.

    The mention of 'diabetes' earlier, and now a cafe with individual menus; both of these things stand out in the roughly midieval time period of Althanas. Glasses alone are already pretty rare. Also the use of the word 'hyper' later on, and 'prom night.' I don't think Victor is originally from earth, but it seems a lot like it.

    "The stone-hearted older sister who would do anything for her little brother..." - If you are literally describing them by their archetypes in the narration, you're falling much too far into 'tell' rather than 'show.' That especially counts for all the talk of 'pain' in the following narration, and the expositional 'feel bad for me' info dump that follows.

    You also have a case of pronoun syndrome, and don't often describe Victor in the thread. Referring to every character by their name every time gets repetitive real fast. You do it occasionally with 'the red-eyed man,' but I recommend using descriptive traits of people as pronoun replacements more often. Just be careful to limit yourself to no more than 2-4 for the main character, that you interchange consistently; no more than one or two for side characters. You should introduce these slowly at first in my opinion, over the first few posts, and always in a context where it's already clear who you mean. Throwing a new pronoun-replacement in at the wrong time can be confusing.

    The main issue I found was drastic tone-changes.

    While the description of the night sky after Nova saved Victor from William was nice, the tone you set with it felt seriously out of place. The worry on Alexandria's face is the start of a subtle tension, right after being introduced to an antagonist, but then you immediately switch to 'hope' and 'endless possibilities.' This is highlighted more when Nova's speech right afterward dives right back into the serious tone. That hopeful tone stands out like a sore thumb surrounded by all that tension and seriousness. You could have possibly twisted it into some 'hope despite difficulty' meaning, but it was too sudden. You would need to add some darker imagery to surround it for the metaphor, or an outright narrative explanation of how his worry didn't detract from the beauty of the sky.

    And the sudden interjection during the fight with Stein's goons of the 'laws and stuff' and 'drinking takes me to a dark place' lines didn't work in my opinion. The first one tried to highlight a tone-shift to humorous, but the fight had already been dragged on so much it didn't feel serious at all, so there was no contrast. The second then just immediately contrasted into super-serious, when the humor level was no-where near enough for that kind of switch to have the drastic tone shift it needs to work.

    "Althanas is no stranger to pain and torment." This line later on is another example. You kinda start waxing philosophical out of nowhere. This is the kind of thing that works well at the start or end of a unique scene, but it's just in the middle of this barely useful 'detective' scene of Victor finding the hideout.


    My main problems with this thread were the logic of the story and characters. Style-wise, I think you're pretty solid, and you excel at description. The only literary device I'd like to see more is personification, and maybe a little less metaphor. As long as you manage the tone shifts, the pacing, and the logic of the characters and story, I think you could write a very good thread. This one wasn't bad, despite being all over the place, but I look forward to seeing the next one you work on. Just go a bit lighter on the tropes next time, or I may not survive.

    Hopefully some of that was helpful, and not too painful.

    A lot of those were rough notes, so if you have any questions, just pm me.
    Sings we a dances of wolves, who smells fear and slays the coward,
    Sings we a dances of mans, who smells gold and slays his brother.


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  9. #9
    Maul-Slayer
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    Thanks to everyone who contributed! GfNC got some great feedback here! This workshop is now closed.

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    ... They fell to him as prey to bluefin
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    I wrote a book! ~ Most Suave Character 2010

  10. #10
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    All rewards added! Sorry for the delay, chaps.

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