Experience Awards

[Visla Eraclaire]

Get real Christoph. You've been around long enough to realize that things don't change easily.

Change on Althanas takes a huge problem with nearly uniform support and a well-defined solution that is easy to implement.

This lacks all those qualities. It's good that Artemis is thinking about ways to improve the board and getting involved, but this just isn't something that's going to happen. He had a good intuition, but wasn't aware of all the procedures in place.

[Duffy]

Get real Christoph. You've been around long enough to realize that things don't change easily.

Change on Althanas takes a huge problem with nearly uniform support and a well-defined solution that is easy to implement.

This lacks all those qualities.

qft2.

[Christoph]

To be fair, even changes with nearly uniform support and well-defined solutions don't often happen. So... I never actually expected any changes. That doesn't mean the issue shouldn't be accurately illustrated every now and then.

[SirArtemis]

well I'm glad this is being discussed...

My concern for this was raised because I actually have 4 posts out of 9 that have about 2500 words in them.

I understand its hard to have a set solution, but if a solution occurs behind the scenes, you can remove the likelihood of padding. Even if you implemented a system where a single post "counts" as a double post, or even triple, as long as you did not inform the public what these word-count thresholds were, the lack of knowledge would prevent padding.

It's obvious that if 701 words counted as a double post, you would possibly see that people would be pushing for that extra word to break the threshold. However, if no one knew that it was 701, they wouldn't do such a thing.

Furthermore, my own suggestion would be to remove the use of post count entirely from determining the reward. Use the 10,000 words/10 posts as a minimum qualification for a post to be judged, and leave it at that. Give the score of a post more weight to account for the removal of the post count variable, and that way, everyone is judged strictly on the quality of their work, and not the quantity. As long as it's "long enough" then it's sufficient.

My only concern is that this system in itself contradicts the lifelong lesson for any writer that "quality is better than quantity." Don't you remember the old days when you had to write an 8 page paper, and you fluffed maybe the last 2?

Make experience and awards a byproduct of ONLY level and quality. You could also maybe give a bonus if multiple people were involved, simply to promote group projects. However, SLIGHT bonus.

[SirArtemis]

Get real Christoph. You've been around long enough to realize that things don't change easily.

Change on Althanas takes a huge problem with nearly uniform support and a well-defined solution that is easy to implement.

This lacks all those qualities. It's good that Artemis is thinking about ways to improve the board and getting involved, but this just isn't something that's going to happen. He had a good intuition, but wasn't aware of all the procedures in place.

You have no idea how depressing reading this is. It is almost an exact replica of the real world, where we need an incredibly devastating event to occur simply to use it as a catalyst to build momentum for change. Is it so wrong to make change before there is a huge problem? And the solution I now propose is easy to implement, is well defined, and I think everyone would prefer this method.

Then again, I admit that I'm new, but that should be valuable in allowing me a different perspective on a system that I haven't become so accustomed to that I'm immune to its potential flaws.

[Duffy]

Not to mention, changing one part of the machine affects the entire machine's performance.

If we enhance or reduce experience, we equally have to shift the borders of the current levels. If we increase experience too much, the levels become meaningless, if we decrease it, the forum turns into World of Warcraft and the input and effort people place in their writing will be worthless (although it's arguable if it's worthy anything as it stands in terms of productivity or for that matter, in terms of doing anything outside of Althanas - Booker winners we ain't.)

I have no fundamental aversion to altering the experience formula or the method of achieving experience, but snapping fingers or winkling your nose like everyone's favourite 1960's witch is not going to happen.

[Letho]

To be fair, even changes with nearly uniform support and well-defined solutions don't often happen.

That's because we're elitist and hate our members. Forever!


In all truth, this horse has been beat up so many times by now I'm afraid there's not horse to beat anymore. And the bottom line is always the same; the system works. It's not perfect, but as Visla pointed out, it probably never could be. The formula we have handles things well in general, and anything that stands out of the ordinary in one way or the other is handled by judges' discretion. And they do know that they have the power to adjust the rewards. They are aware that the formula gives a base value which they can then adjust. And so far it's been serving us well.

You have no idea how depressing reading this is. It is almost an exact replica of the real world, where we need an incredibly devastating event to occur simply to use it as a catalyst to build momentum for change. Is it so wrong to make change before there is a huge problem? And the solution I now propose is easy to implement, is well defined, and I think everyone would prefer this method.

I don't really see how could this turn into a huge problem, if it's a problem at all. It hasn't so far. We've been using more or less the same formula for years now and the walls aren't falling around our ears. If you're so concerned about the EXP rewards that a hundred points here or there makes such a huge issue for you, then I'm afraid you might be here for the wrong reasons. Althanas is not just a game you play with words, where every rule is clearly defined and where every word is worth x amount of EXP, and when you grind enough of those, you get a shiny new set of spells or whatnot. It's a writing workshop where you get to write with other people and get feedback on your work. In such an environment, EXP should always be a secondary concern.

[Max Dirks]

Furthermore, my own suggestion would be to remove the use of post count entirely from determining the reward.

That idea's been thrown around before, but it somewhat limiting. If post count is removed from the equation then (provided the scores and participant levels are the same) 30 post quest will receive the same amount of EXP as a 10 post quest. Presumably, the 30 post quest would take a lot more effort to complete than a 10 post quest (and you can use either post or word count here as the same problem would exist for both). This isn't always true, obviously, and our rubric has plenty of opportunities to account for effort in addition to judge's discretion. However, the problem is that adjusting EXP in the case of a 30 post quest places TOO MUCH discretion into the hands of the judges. Everything we do from a judging standpoint is designed to be normalized to a point where it is fair for all players. It's not perfect by any means, but it's the best we've got given our chosen system.

[SirArtemis]

well, I'm not saying that there will be a huge problem, it was just a thought. From what I gather, this website has been around for many years, so I'm sure it's fine. I suppose my only frustration stems from wanting to be able to write more "out there" stories, and until I'm higher level, my weapons, armor, and abilities are for the most part limited to a normal human being. I mean, that's not the worst thing in the world, don't get me wrong. I just have read so many stories about incredible characters, that I feel like my character is just another person. More experience would allow me to grow my character faster so that my stories could become more eccentric, especially with respect to fighting.

In the end, if it stays the way it is, it won't hurt my feelings. This was just an area to post suggestions, so I did. No one said that every suggestion would be taken, and it was clearly considered. There's nothing more I could ask for I wasn't ignored.

I suppose you can close this thread, unless you want more feedback.

[Christoph]

It's certainly not a huge problem, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make positive changes. I mean, god, it'd be so pathetically easy to fix. (I wouldn't suggest removing the Post-Count modifier, but just making it standard procedure to adjust that number based on post length). EXP will always be a large concern because the majority of members can't tell the stories they want at low levels. I mean sure, by this stage I EXP is only a minor concern for me personally, because I'm a high enough level to tell basically any story I want. That might change if I made a new character, though.

Even the formula itself has issues, beyond the post-length problem. Longer threads are worth proportionately less EXP per post than short ones. Again, even this would be fixed easily by adjusting the Post-Count modifier in the formula. The EXP payouts would increase a bit, but I honestly see that as a good thing. How many new members felt like they would never gain the level they desired, and just gave up? I would guess quite a few.

Finally, judge discretion on this issue sounds all well and good, but it just doesn't happen as far as I can tell. For one reason or another, the judges very rarely adjust EXP rewards based on post length.