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Thread: (Political) ObamCare And more

  1. #31
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    It just makes me sad that religious ideology of any kind is being used as a tool to shape the political scope of this country. When this country was founded the reason freedom of religion was the very first amendment made to the constitution, included in the Bill of Rights in 1789, is because the founders believed that this was one of the most basic civil liberties given to the people of the country. The premise was to allow people to practice their own religion freely and comfortably in a non-intrusive way. Religion, or more like spirituality in modern day life, is a very personal thing.

    What I believe Obama meant when speaking about the many faiths is that regardless of which teaching you observe, the premise of love of all, respect, and morality are all key points. I believe, though I may be wrong, that Jesus was adamant about the love of all. I would rather a genuinely good person, regardless of their faith, than a person with poor character.

    Yet regardless of what one says, much of the religious injection into the very foundation of the United States has occurred in the last century. For example: The phrase "under God" was incorporated into the Pledge of Allegiance June 14, 1954. "In God we trust" was adopted as the official motto of the United States in 1956 as an alternative or replacement to the unofficial motto of E pluribus unum, adopted when the Great Seal of the United States was created and adopted in 1782. In the later half of the 1900's religion continued to make its way into the very core foundation of American politics and it has reached an astonishing level in modern day politics. For many, dare I say the majority of Americans, the question of who is to be the next President is decided by the "make or break" of their faith.

    Regardless of your belief on issues such as homosexuality, abortion, contraception, pre-marital behavior, tattoos, piercings, or whatever issues might crop up - it's important to remember that these are your personal views. If you do not approve of them, then they will not be a part of your life. But under the notion of freedom is the implication that one cannot and will not use their own rights in order to remove the rights of another. If a religious group of any kind uses their views and teachings as a REASON to take the rights away from another, then the very premise of this country is lost.

    It is about doing what is best for PEOPLE, all people, WE the people, the members of this country, and even for people all over the world (if we're stretching the moral compass). That should not be a decision guided by religion, or any other strong view such as that, when it offends the very premise of this country.

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoytti
    Okay, just because someone says their a Christian and they go to a Christian church does NOT mean their christian. He could have easily been wanting to be the president which, at this moment, being a Christian is an unofficial law, made by the people of the United States. So, in order for him to become president he could have called himself "Christian" and gone to a Christian church just to get the job.
    Are you actually trying to say that you have more knowledge of his individual relationship with Jesus Christ than he does? For all we really know any of the highest renowned Christian leaders of the world could be full of crap. You can't make that call. Only one person in the world knows if Barack Obama is a true believer, and since that one person is telling me he is, I'm inclined to believe it rather than come up with some ignorant conspiracy theory about how he's using religion to win votes. I could just as easily say than no one on this forum is a Christian, is it true? Probably not, but its just as possible as your assumption. Also, being Christian is hardly an 'unoficial law'. I'm assuming either you're in the bible belt or you honestly don't watch the news, if its the second one it might be a good idea to start.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hoytti
    According to Christian beliefs, "Abortion is as an attack on the innocent human life of a baby who is made in the image of God."
    Where did this quote come from? I've been in church my whole life and I have never seen this printed in the bible. If you are going to quote something and say it is 'according to Christian beliefs, it pretty much needs to be in the bible, as that is about the only thing most Christians can agree on.

    With that said, I am very much pro-life. The bigger issue with the abortion debate isn't if it is wrong to kill a child, I doubt very much that people are lining up to kill people knowing that they are doing so. The issue is that many people don't consider a fetus a human. When exactly does it become a person? Is it at conception? If so, and I unknowingly play sports during early pregnancy and lose my child am I guilty of manslaughter? Or is it what the pope claims, when the fetus become 'insouled' which he claimed happened well after conception? Does this make the morning after pill okay? What about first trimester abortions? Are those okay because the being inside me doesn't have a soul yet? Or is it what some pro-choice people believe (notice I didn't say claim, they truly believe this) and a fetus does not become a person until it is capable of sustaining life outside the mother? Are wolves, horses and other animals like that commiting a crime against God because they can at will abort their fetus'? If so, why did God give them the ability to do so? Its not a simple answer, and those claiming it is just don't get it. The argument for making abortion a crime under the point that is murder is ridiculous until we can say for certain when a human becomes a human.
    Last edited by Amber Eyes; 07-01-12 at 04:15 PM.
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  3. #33
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    I never said that just because he is clearly not a True-Christian that he should not be the president for the bible says "Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God." ~ Romans 13:1 (NLT) What I am saying is that he is not a "Christian". God put him for a reason and we Christians have to respect that. That doesn't mean we should like what he is doing.

    Another important verse us Christians should uphold "Remind the believers to submit to the government and its officers. They should be obedient, always ready to do what is good.2 They must not slander anyone and must avoid quarreling. Instead, they should be gentle and show true humility to everyone." ~ Titus 3:1-2 (NLT)

    I choose to follow even if I don't like it. I will give my opinion if asked or prompted to but I shall never fight the government. Though, if the government crosses a line that no Christian should cross I will not cross it. I won't move against it but I will explain that I can't follow. What ever the government does is their responsibility. “ 'You are about to enter the land the Lord your God is giving you. When you take it over and settle there, you may think, ‘We should select a king to rule over us like the other nations around us.’15 If this happens, be sure to select as king the man the Lord your God chooses. You must appoint a fellow Israelite; he may not be a foreigner.
    16 'The king must not build up a large stable of horses for himself or send his people to Egypt to buy horses, for the Lord has told you, ‘You must never return to Egypt.’17 The king must not take many wives for himself, because they will turn his heart away from the Lord. And he must not accumulate large amounts of wealth in silver and gold for himself.
    18 'When he sits on the throne as king, he must copy for himself this body of instruction on a scroll in the presence of the Levitical priests.19 He must always keep that copy with him and read it daily as long as he lives. That way he will learn to fear the Lord his God by obeying all the terms of these instructions and decrees.20 This regular reading will prevent him from becoming proud and acting as if he is above his fellow citizens. It will also prevent him from turning away from these commands in the smallest way. And it will ensure that he and his descendants will reign for many generations in Israel." ~ Deut 17:14-20 (NLT)
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  4. #34
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    So in short...Obamacare is bad because Obama isn't Christian enough for you?



    Gods, please elect a transgender, female, gay, or under 25 president...

  5. #35
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    This had nothing to do about obamacare this Forum is titled "Obamacare and More" This falls under more. Anyway, I'm neutral about Obamacare but don't trust his claim about being a Christian. Obamacare, just like anything else that has come before it can be good but just like food stamps, unemployment, and anything else that is taken from our taxes, it can and will be misused. That is why I am neutral because it is both good and bad.
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  6. #36
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  7. #37
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    From what I can tell he is using the new living translation.
    Last edited by Amber Eyes; 07-01-12 at 06:45 PM.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duffy Bracken View Post
    Gods, please elect a transgender, female, gay, or under 25 president...
    The last would require a constitutional amendment. Minimum age is 35. U.S. Const. Art. II, Clause 5
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  9. #39
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    Haha, really?

    Do people suddenly gain sense at 35??

  10. #40
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    "I think it's the belief that the older you get the wiser you get. 35 was old to them since they only lived to be 40 on average
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