'A Tale In Shrink' Workshop

[Mordelain]

Rules

1. No outright attacks on thread writers or reviewers. You may criticize the thread only. This is not a venue for trolling, flaming, or otherwise bashing, demonizing or demoralizing individuals. You will receive only one warning, and upon the second offense in the entire forum, action will be taken.

2. This forum is for Workshop type evaluations only. If you have a thread you want others to look over and comment on, create your own Personal Workshop thread (or whatever you want to call it) in the Role Players' Corner.

3. Take criticism well. The comments here are intended to help writers improve as such. Do not get disheartened if someone says something ill of your work, but rather take it to heart and work hard to improve.

Mr Winchester and Luned have requested a Workshop Judgement for the thread, A Tale in Shrink.

To relaunch the Writer's Workshop, and to encourage contributions, all contributors on this workshop will receive an additional 50 gold, and the best contributor double experience! It will remain open for feedback until midnight on the 29th of August.

[Sheex]

Ah, the old writer’s workshop. I haven’t done this in forever, so I might be a little rusty, but bear with me and I’ll do the best I can. To start with, I am but a humble man. I am not a professional writer, nor have I ever published anything. My point is, that should you disagree with anything I write, by all means ignore it! After all, it’s not like I’m being paid for this….or am I (DUN DUN DUNNNNN)?

Let us begin with what I feel was the strongest point of your writing. I found that you both illustrated the setting of the piece wonderfully. Your descriptions of Berevar were wonderful. The icy chill, the freezing wind; all perfect. You both made it very clear that this place is as cold as a witch’s titty (sheesh, where’d I pull that from?). You also did this in a way that blended in perfectly with the story. Your setting was wonderfully woven into this story.

That being said, speaking of story, let me now move to my two biggest problems with this thread. They are, according to the Althanas rubric anyhow, Story and Character.

Let us start with Character. To me, this is probably the thing I care for the most. I personally find that great characters can save a bad story, if only because the audiences will care about those characters’ trials and tribulations. Now, I’m not staying that your characters were bad (they don’t pay me enough for that), but I think they definitely could use some improvement.

This story revolves around three main characters in my mind. Slick-talking Leopold Winchester, intrepid ace reporter (okay, I might be over-exaggerating a little), Luned Bleddyn, and gentle giant Gurdon. Let’s look at each three, shall we?

To me, Leopold was the strongest character. His why-do-I-gotta-deal-with-this-chick attitude towards Luned was next to perfect. I personally would have toned down the, if I may use a somewhat general term “crush” on Luned though. Maybe it was just a little too cliché for my tastes, but were I Leopold, I would have found myself more annoyed than anything with little-miss busybody. I just felt that the “oh, she’s such a pain in the ass….and yet the way her eyes sparkle….ah, amour!” was a bit forced. Then again...she does have boobs. Oh, and the butler dude was a cool addition; played off Leopold very well.

My main issue with Luned was, I suppose, her goody-twoshoesness. She starts this off with “Luned need money” and it shifts very quickly to “Luned take care of giant out of…right thing to do-ness?”

Ah, that may not be the best metaphor, but my point is this. For me, the shift between “I am taking this job because I am desperate” to “I truly care for this giant” was just too abrupt. I am not saying this shouldn’t happen (the plot in and of itself is perfectly acceptable), but there should be at least some foreshadowing/build up in my mind. Otherwise she is really just doing it because she’s a nice, caring gal, which works. Kind of a cop out in my mind though.

This leads to the last character: Gurdon. Now, in my mind, this guy should be pretty important. After all, he’s kind of the reason this story is happening to begin with. Don’t get me wrong, it is entirely possible to write a story based around a macguffin (something that is there simply for the heroes to pursue mainly just because), but having this thing being a living being is pretty hard. I really took issues with just how “meh” Gordon was. This is my summation of Gordon.

Wanna leave town? Kay. With strangers? Cool bro. Wanna say good-bye to someone? Eh, some dude’s barn house I stayed at. Dude, you killed his sheep? Yeah (insert sniffle). So, we’re gonna carry you across this frozen tundra of insta-nipple freeze (again, where does this stuff come from?) on a back of a wagon, cool? Cool.

I just wanted SOMETHING to happen with this guy, but it never does. I felt that a giant should, well, be a giant part of the story (rimshot here). But really, he never does much of anything.

Lastly, let me look on the story. Wasn’t bad, but its ending was just too abrupt for me. I’m pretty sure there’s a sequel in the works (if not, seriously, bad cliffhanger guys), but this story was but mostly introduction…and not much else. I truly felt that this whole story was not but a lot of character introductions, and a good amount of walking and talking. Now, this isn’t an instant fail (I happen to love Reservoir Dogs, which if you haven’t seen it, spoiler alert. It’s pretty much ninety-percent talking), but I bet you could have cut out half this story, and it wouldn’t have mattered in the least. From the one writer’s workshop I took at collage, one of the main things I learned was to ask yourself: how does this add to the story? Why is this important? What does it show? If you cannot come up with an answer to these questions, that part probably shouldn’t be there.

Plus if you went two more posts, we could’ve, you know, see the city of Giants. That would be cool.

I always finish with a good point, so back to the butler. Leopold may be the strongest, but Wilfred is definitely my favorite. His soft banter with a slight dose of sarcasm was perfect. His politeness towards Luned, and his conversations with Leopold were all very well done. I recommend more Wilfred! Plus, give him a top-hat. They’re spiffy.

Anyhow, that’s my review of A Tale in Shrink. Well done folks. Sorry if it came off as more “this is what you did wrong” instead of “this is what you did right,” but I really feel that if you would add to the characters, and maybe fast-track the story a little, it would really benefit this piece.
Well, I’m done. Hey Dirks! Where’s my paycheck? Bring me my money, a diet pepsi, and some hot wings!

[Mordelain]

Could I kindly ask for more feedback from the community for his workshop?

[Morkotar]

I've only read about half of this, but since I seem to keep getting distracted by other things and the workshop period is winding down, I'll give some quick thoughts.

This started out really light and fun - you had a simple narrative hook which became a more complex story as the characters took interest in it. Introduction and character/dialogue are easily the strongest aspects of this piece from both of you, I feel. The characters and their backstory are what justified the thread, and what moved the action, and what kept me interested. I do feel, however, that you focused a little too much on your strengths.

Salvar is probably one of the more difficult nations in which to do really impressive setting work. The problem is that at a glance it's sort of bland and always the same, and that's an easy trap to fall into when you're writing dialogue driven prose. Both of your introductions brought the setting to life (Luned's portrayal of how Salvic people amuse themselves really rang true), but it fell a little flat after that. While I like Mr Winchester's way of introducing the setting like a title, it shouldn't be the only piece of information that lets me know where they are.

Next time, think about maybe playing up some of the less predictable elements of Salvar. While I may have missed some more volatile weather later on in the thread, I felt somewhat surprised that they got through the first 10 posts without ever getting slowed down by ice, snow, cold, etc. This brings me to my next point...

Conflict. It was present fairly immediately, but never really progressed to anything more than banter between characters. Although you DID do an effective job of raising the stakes, those raised stakes did not seem to impact the characters very much. I'm not saying you needed to start a tavern brawl for no reason... it just seemed odd that in such a desolate place, with so many people emotionally involved in something, all of the initial problems were immediately solved with a quick, witty conversation. In addition, finding a way to transport the giant invisibly came off as wayyyy too easy. In fact, I think that may have been one of the things which caused me to lose interest in the story. You overcame what seemed like a significant obstacle without encountering any resistance, and I got bored.

Overall, I really enjoy reading both of your writing, it flows well and the dialogue not only feels natural, it often makes me smile or chuckle. Here's a few quick suggestions to spruce up future projects...

-Remember the setting is not just a backdrop for the story, it can influence the story. There is never nothing going on, and some of what goes on should be noticed by the characters and/or influence the storyline.
-Let NPCs be as strong as your main characters, even if only for a moment. They need to have needs, desires, and emotions as real as the PCs, or they can become talking heads. Just because the story follows your character, doesn't necessarily mean they must outwit or emotionally overpower everyone they meet. In this story, Luned and Leopold had a massive impact on the lives of everybody in that town, and yet no one there seemed to make a lasting impact on them (except Luned's moustache, of course).
-Let things go wrong! Whether it's an unfortunately timed avalanche, accidental giant damage, or an icepick wielding mob coming after the giant for previous accidental damage, the conflicts your characters face as they move through the story make it more interesting, and help us get to know them more intimately than when it's all smooth sailing.

[Flames of Hyperion]

* Disclaimer: This is informal, subjective advice from somebody who's not very accomplished at handing out such. Please treat accordingly. Without further ado!

Story:

The story itself was simple enough - a problem to be solved, two problem-solvers on hand to deal with it. The banter between Luned, Leopold, and Wilfred was thoroughly enjoyable, especially once they got into their stride. Unfortunately, as others have pointed out before me, it was mostly introduction - which dragged somwhat - and little conflict, which makes me wonder why you chose to split the story and end it when you did. I felt... cheated, robbed, when it proceeded so smoothly and then ended so abruptly. I did appreciate the cliffhanger, but I don't think it conclusively tied the story together as a whole.

To clarify a bit further: I didn't mind Wilfred's solution to the problem of how to transport Gurdon. But I would have appreciated a bit more worrying over the possible consequences of if he was seen. Plus it would then set things up perfectly for if something actually did go wrong. I'm surprised that the axles managed to cope with the giant's weight, that the heavy wagons didn't once get bogged down in snow (forcing everybody out to work them free)... but I'm even more surprised that the fact that the entire caravan made it all the way intact didn't at least tickle Leopold's pride (especially after the 'losses' he suffered first time round?).


Background:

Luned's tale of how she came to be involved with the matter was full of charming little details - the white lies she told to get the position, the consequences of her not preparing properly for the clime, etc. Loved how it neatly fleshed out the world whilst involving her in it. Leopold's knowledge of Salvar and Berevar also played well, I feel, off Luned's less knowledgable demeanour, to enhance the setting and to drive the dialogue and story.

Unfortunately I didn't get much about Promos other than its clock tower, which you painted once and then rather ignored. Did the village stink, or was it the crisply pristine like newly fallen snow? Were the villagers scrubbed and polished or covered in excrement and grime? How about the scars of the recent civil war... or did it emerge relatively unscathed?

Then the storymoved to Berevar, and although the descriptive passages were nice, they felt too detached to me. Obviously Leopold's comfort wagons are allowing him to get away with not interacting with the lands enough! Linking back to the lack of conflict mentioned earlier, I would have liked something to have forced them out of the wagon. It would have been a nice opportunity to flesh out the rest of the caravan as well, who aside from the mention of guards didn't get any love at all.

Adelman was the most innovative of your settings, of course, and I liked the way you approached it from both Luned's (as a scholar) and Leopold's (as a mercantile adventurer) viewpoints. Unfortunately the story ended just as you arrived...


Characters:

I would like to say that the best part of the thread was the way Leopold and Luned played off one another, but the dynamic between Leopold and Wilfred was equally well written. Kudos there.

Leopold's mannerisms - the way in which he dissected all the small details and almost overacted between each sentence he spoke - did much to enhance his character. I feel it's a fine line between enhancing and overdoing it, though, so I'd suggest being careful here - especially during the first half of the thread. I enjoyed his little speeches, the way he showed off his knowledge while keeping his cards close to his chest, but also the way he differed to Wilfed for some of the more practical issues. Finally his darker side, his dealings with the Old Gods, was well highlighted throughout to add just that little touch of intrigue.

I don't have any issues with Luned's 'goody-two-shoes' character, but Sheex made the valid point that her empathy for Gurdon came from left field and would have worked better if it had been foreshadowed somewhat. Her attempts at piercing Leopold's cloud of half-truths, and her motherly demeanour towards Gurdon, both worked to flesh her out somewhat; but she didn't have the depth that Leopold had. I think part of this is because she didn't have a Wilfred (or a Muir) this time to bounce her emotions and motivations off. My suggestion would be to evoke such a person in her inner thoughts (for example, the way that Ingwe frequently uses Kayu to motivate his actions) to give further insight into her mind.

I had a hard time getting to grips with Gurdon. His first two responses - greeting and name - came across as bland, and didn't evoke the terror I might have expected. Then he managed to understand Luned's question about 'relocation' - I know educated adult humans who would have to think twice before answering that! Only when he moves again does he evoke terror (earthquakes and claps of thunder). He had some nice touches regarding Betsy and the sheep, and longing for girls, and learning how to smile, but overall he felt like a half-developed plot device rather than a full character - partly, I think, because you were saving some revelations about his past for a future sequel.


Technique:

Again, I think it started with some difficulty and then improved as the thread went on. I'm not going to criticise anybody for run-on sentences, but I do feel that the flow of the writing was much cleaner towards the end than at the beginning. Maybe this was directly linked to the lack of 'action' in the first couple of scenes?

I place extreme value on the first paragraph of a story, and the first sentence in particular. I feel it has to capture the reader hook, line, and sinker. Unfortunately it failed to do so this time: a passive description of Berevar's hostility that - while making extremely valid points - was too bland as an opener. Couldn't Leopold have mused over these things whilst actually doing something interesting? Furthermore, the 'was' in the first sentence clashes with the rest of the paragraph...

Furthermore, I would try to smooth over the descriptive scenes at times. As an example of what I felt clunky:

The butler craned his neck up at the giant leaning against the village square’s clock tower. The hands of the ancient timepiece were battered, and its peak leant precariously under the strain. The red brickwork was crumbled, chipped, and worn. Though it had not told the correct time in years, it found a new purpose in offering the giant a place to rest.

I appreciate the imagery that you're trying to evoke, but it doesn't flow neatly through my mind. Perhaps try:

The butler craned his neck up at the giant leaning against the village square’s clock tower. The battered hands of the ancient timepiece had not told the correct time in years, its red brickwork crumbled, chipped, and worn. Its peak leant precariously under the strain of its new purpose, in offering the giant a place to rest.

Unfortunately, you didn't mention it again after that, not even when Gurdon (I think) pulled himself free and lurched forward in response to Leopold's mention of other giants.

(Quick aside - I feel that the term 'giant' can be distracting, since I have to double-check to make sure that it's being used as a noun rather than an adjective. I prefer titan, which of course you've already used by this point, or perhaps come up with a new term to enhance their background?).

“Hello.” The giant’s voice was rumbustious.

For such a rumbustious voice, that's a rather tame greeting... no strong accent? no broken eardrums? Did the giant manage to make himself understood first time, and was Leopold surprised by that? Or is he experienced and charismatic enough to let it slide? I felt that so much more could be made of this first interaction, that wasn't expanded upon.

Minor errors scattered throughout the text - enough to make me hang my head once in a while. The old mantra of rereading out loud comes to mind, although I appreciate that I personally fall on the extreme end of the nitpicky perfectionist scale...

As a final thought, could you perhaps have told the same story in medias res? I would have considered it a good way to cut through the introductory exposition that somewhat clogged the first half of the thread, and proceed straight to the witty banter and novel operation (smuggling a giant!) that really caught the eye.

* In closing: Cheers to both of you for a fun, if lightweight, read! There had better be a sequel!

[Mordelain]

Thank you everyone for your commentary, advice, and discussion.

The workshop is now closed, pending judgement and rewards.