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Thread: ***Spoilers*** Star Wars Episode VII

  1. #41
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    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias Stalt View Post
    Force Valor doesn't just happen, though. It's totally Deus Ex.

    Valor is the power Yoda used to move his body at the insane degree he could well into his 800s/900s. It takes a staggering amount of control to use, and I hardly think Rey would just have snap crackle and popped it off.
    It's not like she was doing crazy flips or anything. And it's hardly a Deus Ex Machina when they established throughout the movie leading up to it that Rey could instinctively use force techniques. Finally, Disney can make whatever they want canon, so your wikis cannot save you this time!

    As for the movie as a whole, I loved it. It was fun, and not even in the "turn your brain off" kind of way. More in the "don't be allergic to fun" kind of way. It was flawed, to be sure, but so was the original trilogy. The plot was pretty straightforward, but the plot wasn't the point. The lore and setting and characters were the point.

    I enjoyed all of the characters. Kylo Ren had depth beyond "rargh I'm evil". I love that he desperately wanted to be "rargh evil", but had to struggle. With the mask off, he was creepy in a school shooter sort of way, contrasting Prequel Anakin's "m'lady" style of creepy. I cannot fathom why anyone would call the characters flat. It's not Schindler's List, of course, but given the number of characters and the time each of them was on screen, I though they all had depth, portrayed through actions and dialogue.

    One could argue that the meetings between the main characters were unlikely, but truly interesting, exciting stories occur exactly because unlikely events. Think of things that we find interesting in the real world; most are unexpected, unlikely. You find series of events difficult to accept? You don't believe it? Take it from Yoda, then.

  2. #42
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    Thoughts:

    Spoiler:
    Kylo Ren was definitely the best character in the film and a pretty decent antagonist overall. However, as a huge Star Wars fan (jesus god knows how long I've been roleplaying that stuff, be it tabletop or via forum), I was overall disappointed with the film. The conflict felt like they just wanted to throw a bigger, badder Death Star at us, without even the buildup to make it feel dramatic (also it was basically destroyed in the exact same way). The storytelling around Poe's not-really-death was horrifically lazy, but Finn definitely was the worst character in my opinion. His characterization was abysmal. He went from a Stormtrooper questioning the morality of the First Order to a part of the Resistance cracking jokes as he shot down his former comrades and engaging in a typical Hollywood-level relationship tease with Rey.

    Personally, I didn't like that JJ Abrams did nothing with the universe that was already set up for him. Nobody expected him to actually take the EU into account, but the degree to which he flagrantly brushed off a universe that's been established over the course of three decades was nonplussing IMO. I was paying attention to the backgrounds and recognized exactly 2 species from the rest of the series: a Mon Calamari and a Sullustan that somehow managed to sneak in there. He pretty much threw a bunch of aliens as background pieces without taking any actual opportunity to make use of them as characters, with the exception of Maz (prequel garbage class) and Snoke (no opinion thus far). I feel like this is the influence of Abrams' prior experience with sci-fi universes, Firefly and Star Trek, which are both a lot more inclined towards this kind of interaction with the setting. Continuity is king in these series, something that Hollywood doesn't seem to understand in its efforts to milk a little more cash from the cow, and continuity didn't really have a place anywhere in TFA except as a nostalgic nod to the characters from the OT.

    Rey and Kylo have the potential to be interesting as they're explored in the rest of the trilogy, but TFA did a shitty job of making me interested in their backstory or their drive. They pretty much went unmentioned, a little less in the case of Kylo but especially for Rey, whose past was pretty much ignored to set her up as a Skywalker and Kylo's cousin. Also, the Republic pretty much existed to get nuked by the third Death Star... supposedly the books that they always publish expand a lot on the in-universe historical backdrop behind the movie, but what use is that if it never makes it into the finished product?

    The movie was just too derivative overall. Even the opening crawl echoed A New Hope, and while some interpreted this as an homage to the original trilogy, it didn't really come across that way for me. I mean, Rey is literally Anakin: a (quasi)slave on a desert planet with a knack for piloting. It's obvious they're setting up all the familiar themes, making it so Rey embodies the light side of her family's qualities and Kylo is more channeling Vader and Anakin's dark side at the moment, but... it was all too lazy.

    Of course, I'm waxing negative here. Overall I'd give the movie a 5. It was better than I expected going into the theater, because it didn't kill my enthusiasm for Star Wars, but I'm not looking forward to the generation of fans that are introduced to it through this trilogy either.
    Last edited by Odium; 12-22-15 at 07:14 AM.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odium View Post
    Thoughts:

    Spoiler:
    Kylo Ren was definitely the best character in the film and a pretty decent antagonist overall. However, as a huge Star Wars fan (jesus god knows how long I've been roleplaying that stuff, be it tabletop or via forum), I was overall disappointed with the film. The conflict felt like they just wanted to throw a bigger, badder Death Star at us, without even the buildup to make it feel dramatic (also it was basically destroyed in the exact same way). The storytelling around Poe's not-really-death was horrifically lazy, but Finn definitely was the worst character in my opinion. His characterization was abysmal. He went from a Stormtrooper questioning the morality of the First Order to a part of the Resistance cracking jokes as he shot down his former comrades and engaging in a typical Hollywood-level relationship tease with Rey.

    Personally, I didn't like that JJ Abrams did nothing with the universe that was already set up for him. Nobody expected him to actually take the EU into account, but the degree to which he flagrantly brushed off a universe that's been established over the course of three decades was nonplussing IMO. I was paying attention to the backgrounds and recognized exactly 2 species from the rest of the series: a Mon Calamari and a Sullustan that somehow managed to sneak in there. He pretty much threw a bunch of aliens as background pieces without taking any actual opportunity to make use of them as characters, with the exception of Maz (prequel garbage class) and Snoke (no opinion thus far). I feel like this is the influence of Abrams' prior experience with sci-fi universes, Firefly and Star Trek, which are both a lot more inclined towards this kind of interaction with the setting. Continuity is king in these series, something that Hollywood doesn't seem to understand in its efforts to milk a little more cash from the cow, and continuity didn't really have a place anywhere in TFA except as a nostalgic nod to the characters from the OT.

    Rey and Kylo have the potential to be interesting as they're explored in the rest of the trilogy, but TFA did a shitty job of making me interested in their backstory or their drive. They pretty much went unmentioned, a little less in the case of Kylo but especially for Rey, whose past was pretty much ignored to set her up as a Skywalker and Kylo's cousin. Also, the Republic pretty much existed to get nuked by the third Death Star... supposedly the books that they always publish expand a lot on the in-universe historical backdrop behind the movie, but what use is that if it never makes it into the finished product?

    The movie was just too derivative overall. Even the opening crawl echoed A New Hope, and while some interpreted this as an homage to the original trilogy, it didn't really come across that way for me. I mean, Rey is literally Anakin: a (quasi)slave on a desert planet with a knack for piloting. It's obvious they're setting up all the familiar themes, making it so Rey embodies the light side of her family's qualities and Kylo is more channeling Vader and Anakin's dark side at the moment, but... it was all too lazy.

    Of course, I'm waxing negative here. Overall I'd give the movie a 5.5 or a 6. It was better than I expected going into the theater, because it didn't kill my enthusiasm for Star Wars, but I'm not looking forward to the generation of fans that are introduced to it through this trilogy either.
    Please don't ever mention Firefly and Star Wars in the same breath again.

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  4. #44
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    That's going to be hard considering the person with the reins on this trilogy. And the inevitable influence it's had on him. :' (
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odium View Post
    That's going to be hard considering the person with the reins on this trilogy. And the inevitable influence it's had on him. :' (
    We can counteract that with the power of Mark Hamill's beard.

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  6. #46
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    Why was Firefly mentioned at all? I don't think JJ Abrams had anything to do with that.
    "The man who is to be great is the one who can be the most solitary, the most hidden, the most deviant, the man beyond good and evil, lord of his virtues, a man lavishly endowed with will - this is precisely what greatness is to be called: it is able to be as much a totality as something multi-faceted, as wide as it is full."

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  7. #47
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    I could not care less about the Expanded Universe. Most of it was god-awful, so I'm glad they cleared it all away and started over. I feel that any complaints about the movie having anything to do with the Expanded Universe are without merit.

    Also, Episode 7 was a much more enjoyable movie than Serenity, and comparably good, though much, much different, than the Firefly series.
    Last edited by Christoph; 12-22-15 at 09:35 PM.

  8. #48
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    Lol! Sorry, in my head it seems like Joss Whedon and JJ Abrams had become a single person. Disregard that comment entirely.

    I have no problem with most of the EU getting tossed. God knows the Fandalorians, Jacen Solo, and the Yuuzhan Vong are nothing I'm going to lose sleep over. However, the movie didn't feel like a continuation of the Star Wars setting to me. It felt like a bad remake of A New Hope.

    Nonetheless, like I said, it was a head above any of the prequel garbage... at least they actually got the themes and the aesthetic right this time around.
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  9. #49
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    Woah. We have so many fucking separatists on this site.

    Get fucked, seppos.

    Edit: Also, is it just me, or did the First Order blow up FUCKING CORUSCANT?
    Last edited by Tobias Stalt; 12-24-15 at 04:40 PM.
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  10. #50
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    They did. It was ignored in the film.

    I am annoyed.

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