Althanas 3.0 - Discussion

[Saxon]

The "ability progression chart" is incredibly easy to use. While it may sound complicated (you did ask for full disclosure on what's happening) it will speed up and standardize the RoG. Elundir, you are not going to use the terms "above average fire ability." If you do, you won't be approved. You'll tell us exactly what your character can do with fire, what its physical characteristics are (a 10 ft fireball, for example), and what its affects are. We will then assign it a power level.

Yeah, no. That sounds incredibly stupid in trying to give you an absolutist definition in each and every spell so you can label it. I think I'd avoid making spells on this account just because of that, but I'm pretty sure you're going to extend this to all abilities anyway. Wow, I didn't think it was possible, but you made the RoG even more douchey.

Also, in case you weren't paying attention, we don't moderate things like swordskills in the RoG anymore.

That means nothing. You'll rape our abilities and squeeze any form of sophistication out of it by making it generic in the sense you have to in order for the Gestapo to use their new handy-dandy labeling gun. Oh, I mean labeling mechanism. But, in the trade-off, my character can learn anything he wants.

Wow! I suppose I better make Saxon an Iron Chef at baking knowledge, but GOD HELP ME if I try to get by you with a skill that allows me to make cakes without telling you the size, shape, time necessary for baking, and nourishment provided by my delicious desserts first!

[Godhand]

[Dissinger]

I'll post a few comments before I have to jump on the plane.

• No one has gotten to level 15 in 10 years of playing.
• The "ability progression chart" is incredibly easy to use. While it may sound complicated (you did ask for full disclosure on what's happening) it will speed up and standardize the RoG. Elundir, you are not going to use the terms "above average fire ability." If you do, you won't be approved. You'll tell us exactly what your character can do with fire, what its physical characteristics are (a 10 ft fireball, for example), and what its affects are. We will then assign it a power level. Also, in case you weren't paying attention, we don't moderate things like swordskills in the RoG anymore.

That's all I have time for now.

Yeah Dirks...about that whole level cap thing...

You mean to tell me, I can't gain any power or do anything once I hit this cap? Am I literally going to be stonewalled from seth getting any stronger, just because under my name is the numbers 1 and 5?

EDIT: I haven't seen a godhand troll fail in awhile!

[Revenant]

Yeah Dirks...about that whole level cap thing...

You mean to tell me, I can't gain any power or do anything once I hit this cap? Am I literally going to be stonewalled from seth getting any stronger, just because under my name is the numbers 1 and 5?

It was pointed out that you CAN get a level extension over the cap using your shiny Althanas Points or whatever they are.

[Tainted Bushido]

It was pointed out that you CAN get a level extension over the cap using your shiny Althanas Points or whatever they are.

I haven't seen anything on that anywhere? Where'd you dig that up Rev?

[Allistia Eraclaire]

I'm not sure whether the chart helps anything. Maybe it does, because people are helped by labels, but the method for assigning a label to an ability is the real hard part. It's what we're struggling with in the RoG right now and hiding it behind a label isn't going to solve it.

The question "How strong is this ability?" has a lot of granularity. It's hard enough to balance abilities when they're defined in words rather than numbers. Balancing different types of abilities, keeping the determinations consistent from profile to profile, and really thinking through the implications of different abilities is going to be the real problem.

I hope mods are prepared to address those issues and not slap up these labels and call it good.


EDIT: Pat, it's here.

A cap at level 15. We'll have a way for your to purchase 5 extra levels (called level breaking) by utilizing your Althanas Points.

There's still a cap. It's unclear whether you buy the levels directly or buy the privilege to gain them. Either way, it seems silly to me. Just let crazy people keep leveling. No sense building a system for them when effort could be spent on systems that affect everyone.

[BlackAndBlueEyes]

I don't mean to be a dick, but...

in·nate
   /ɪˈneɪt, ˈɪneɪt/ Show Spelled[ih-neyt, in-eyt] Show IPA
–adjective
1. existing in one from birth; inborn; native: innate musical talent.
2. inherent in the essential character of something: an innate defect in the hypothesis.
3. originating in or arising from the intellect or the constitution of the mind, rather than learned through experience: an innate knowledge of good and evil.

Might I suggest you change that last tier to "unparalleled" or something? Or, hey, personally I'd go with a scale of 1-10 like I see some occasional character profiles already using.

[Christoph]

Well, I respect the staff's dedication to exacerbating the site's known member-retention problems. The RoG system is too complicated and not user friendly? Let's fix it by adding more intricate, unforgiving rules and regulations until we might as well print out rulebooks ala D&D to go with it. People like forum roleplaying because it's NOT so rules-focused. And finally, while I like more freedom for knowledge-related abilities, I don't think swordsmanship was a good example. Having a technical knowledge of swordsmanship is far from the same thing as being a good swordsman. Aside from basic strength and speed, muscle memory and trained reflexes are very important. I like that you're trying to give more freedom, but you're still doing it wrong.

The retirement and reincarnation rules are, as has been stated already, really stupid. The reincarnation 50% was already horrible, further preventing bored players from recycling a character to make one that they might have more fun with. Now you want to put it down even lower? Ridiculous. You should make the reincarnation rule 75% instead. Then maybe people might use it.

I don't hate the rubric, and I don't think we need one of quests and one for battles (though I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to it, either). I don't particularly like it, either. It bares too much evidence of the worst results of committee decisions -- trying to please a number of contradictory visions. Since this is important, I'll dissect it by category.


Story: I like this category. It makes sense. That is all. If anything, I would weight it more heavily (15 points instead of 10, perhaps), because it encompasses more.

Setting: It's fine, though I would add a couple things to it (explained below in Continuity).

Continuity: I have several problems with this category. First, its name does not match its content. That is probably because you jumbled so many different criteria together that it defies a single classification. You have things that belong in setting, and others that belong in the old Action. In short, I don't think we need this category at all (more on this later).

Creativity: God, where to even begin. For me, and it would seem for others as well, this category is just another Wildcard, only worse. It's another category where even the best-meaning judges will be tempted to insert their personal biases. This category should be removed completely. Creativity in general should be handled on a per-category basis. IE: creative characterization would affect character categories, and creative settings would influence the Setting category, etc.

Character: I'm not entirely sure what this is, since there IS no "character" category currently. I'm assuming it to be essentially what Persona currently is. If so, I guess that's fine.

Interaction: I'm generally okay with this category, though I think it could use a little tweaking and clarification. If the intention is to combine the more "character-oriented" parts of action (IE: do the actions make sense for the character) and dialogue, with more emphasis on communication in general, then I approve. As with Story, I would weight it at 15 instead of 10 because it encompasses a wider range of criteria than other categories.

Strategy: I think this category should be changed to "Realism" and also encompass issues of powergaming and how, well, realistic everything is. I realize that this is a fantasy setting, but to that I would say that realism is even MORE important in a fantasy setting.

Mechanics: Fine. I'm assuming it's more or less the same as the current mechanics.

Technique: It's not there. Bring it back. The fact that members were penalized for having a "unique style", as you put it is not the fault of the Technique category, but rather that of the judges (or the member him/herself, as a "unique" style is not necessarily a good one). The quality with which the writer crafts his prose is just as important as the message he attempts to present.

Clarity: Fine.

Wildcard: I'm generally okay with it.

And that's about it. That should leave nine categories, but a total of 100 points.

[Max Dirks]

He probably got it from the moderator forums where everything has been posted for discussion for days. I figured as a moderator maybe you'd periodically choose to look there.

[Duffy]

Does anyone have a ten point tier with more appropriate names, or descriptors/generic examples to give guidance to new players in terms of what's appropriate for X or Y?