Judge's Choice Discussion

[Kryos]

I really like the idea of a People's Choice award. Not only does it recognize great writing and storytelling, but it means a lot to me as a member to be involved with awards moreso than the average member currently is able to be.

[kitsune]

The people's choice does sound interesting, maybe if a Judges choice nomination falls short it can be sent to people choice automatically.

[Storm Veritas]

The only devil's advocate perspective I'd offer is that "people's choice" presumes people read thread they aren't IN. I know for a fact that this is not the case for a lot of threads written here. Sheer time constraints makes this a prohibitive concept.

If there is some democratic process to nominate threads for "People's Choice" type awards that is different from JC, I'd be very interested in considering it and think on its face it is a great idea.

As for JC, I think the Writer's Workshop and AP system may actually play a BIG role here. Since more people are forced to judge to get their own shit read, you have more people weighing in on good threads, and more eyes on threads which may or may not warrant JC consideration. Long term, WW seems like the solution.

[BlackAndBlueEyes]

I'm not so sure I'm keen on the idea of a "people's choice" award.

Playing devil's advocate here for a second, I feel that the purpose of the JC is to push writers here to improve their abilities to a point where one day they can write something truly exceptional by our standards, and get recognized for it. There's a bit of prestige to be had, since your thread is enshrined among the best stories and authors this site has.

To be fair, everyone has a different opinion on what constitutes great writing, and I don't think it can't be argued that the rubric system will never be truly objective. What Judge X thinks is a 73, another would have scored a 81, and so on.

However, if you create a system where people can just vote for any story they liked, you run the risk of the entire thing becoming a worthless popularity contest. Everyone has their own biases here towards other writers and their works, and I feel that the voting process would eventually reflect that. And then if, say, Player X in Clique Y puts out a quick two thousand word thread with objectively sub-par plot development and action, and then he gets all of his buddies to vote for that and it's given a players' choice award, would the award itself be given any real meaning or weight? The whole idea just feels like a worthless participation reward that doesn't give you incentive to better yourself as a writer.

[Requiem of Insanity]

An 80 does not mean an automatic JC, as I have had a judge fairly tell me while exceptionally written, something was off and not quite JC material.

[Bard]

I agree with Andy, and as I understand it score isn't the only criteria for a thread becoming a JC. It is one, but not the only one.

Personally I'm not for a People's Choice award myself, beyond perhaps something added to the Althanas Awards.

[Flames of Hyperion]

While on the surface a People's Choice award sounds intriguing, I share the same concerns that Andy voiced - namely 'cliques' and 'popularity contests'. In themselves they aren't necessarily a bad thing - see the Althies - but , in my opinion, they should play no part whatsoever in a Judge's Choice award.

Hence I also agree with Storm - the Writer's Workshop is probably the way forward here. By submitting your thread to the WW, you're intrinsically opening it up to criticism and praise from all comers. If it passes this acid test by garnering positive reviews, then at least you can be sure that you've written something that other people have appreciated, whether or not it is then nominated for a Judge's Choice. I don't believe that it would be a bad thing to formalise this as a People's Choice, even if in the end it's just a participation reward. Especially given my peeve with the Workshop as is, which is that we have no idea whether or not the official judges are even looking at the threads there beyond setting them up and closing them (I understand that the judges are all busy people, and this is by no means an attack on anybody, but it does leave them open to accusations that the WW only exists to lighten the judging workload).

Going back to Kryos's original post, which was looking for comments on why there haven't been any JCs recently... in part I think it's because the judging nowadays is tougher than it was five years ago (I have to say that looking back now, I wouldn't have nominated any of my earlier threads for JCs...), and in part because there are fewer completed threads going through the system, and fewer still by writers who are willing to take the time to construct a good story and then thoroughly proofread and edit it before submission. It takes a lot of time and effort to get these things correct, and I can understand that sometimes when you're just writing for fun (i.e. in between classes, or after a hard day's work) it doesn't feel worth it. And while I'm in no way ridiculing or denigrating such threads, I can see why they aren't nominated for JCs, either.

In short, as people before have said: JCs are only for the best of the best, and if people start writing better, people will get JCs ^^.

[Tobias Stalt]

Score must meet the absolute minimum criteria to be considered for a Judge's Choice. If the Judge who is handling a thread does not deem it high enough in score to be a Judge's Choice, why would all of the Judges as a whole even consider a thread worthy of the esteem? It's logically consistent.

As far as a people's choice award, there is one. It's given out during the Althies.

Also, Gnarl, please message me with a link of the thread in which 65 is explicitly stated. I can't seem to find it to edit it.

[Storm Veritas]

I'm not so sure I'm keen on the idea of a "people's choice" award.

However, if you create a system where people can just vote for any story they liked, you run the risk of the entire thing becoming a worthless popularity contest.

If I Devil's Advocate a point made as Devil's Advocate, what does that make me? Angel's Advocate? Jebus?

Anyway, I'd counter to say that IF a "People's Choice" award appeared to be too much of a popularity contest, wouldn't that simply devaluate the "PC" award, without putting any risk on the "JC" award? There are absolutely biases to consider here, but judges are inherently going to have bias too, even if the biases are unintended. If a People's Choice award existed, the merit of it would be determined by the number of awards given, and the balance of prestige/rarity would be self-regulated.

At worst, if it all went to shit and every thread won a People's Choice Award, then couldn't we collectively just scrap the idea?

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

Not to throw a spanner in the works, but the official judgment rules thread states 65+ score to be nominated by a judge for a JC.

If this is not the case, it needs to be updated.

Not the case i'm afraid. I suspect what you are reading is outdated.