The one thing that would be an area to look into maybe is more opportunities to gain AP. Right now the only operable ones are taking part in a vignette and workshop replies. As the wiki is still in progress, as is the canon submission, for 4.0, which is perfectly understandable as these things take time (and if memory serves these were other ways to gain AP) perhaps thoughts could come from this.
Last edited by Philomel; 01-17-2018 at 03:26 PM.
*admin at your service*
Matriarch of the Gilded Lily and of its brothels, associated establishments and the army.
Characters:
The family triplet: Philomel, Vaeron and Celandine.
The god and kenku triplet: Stare, Avin and Vixen.
The Primordials: Professor Charles and Moros.
I agree AIlsa that would be a neat idea.
More AP gaining opportunities I think would help alleviate some of the concerns I had with the system in the first place. But yes those types of ideas would be a welcome change for sure!
Originally Posted by Paladin_Lorenor
I think you've been "whooshed" here, pal.
My point is focused on trying to get the community talking to each other about their writing, sharing positivity and constructive feedback to maintain a quality environment. I am not suggesting we force anything on anyone; it is my opinion alone that we should stop auto scoring. I also suggest that in the event we can't, we provide more feedback to help writers who submit. You may have noticed it's looking pretty barren for feedback.
Tl;dr version is "if we can't stop the auto scoring at least give people feedback"
I think a quick re-read of my post might clear up a huge misunderstanding.
Last edited by Shinsou Vaan Osiris; 01-17-2018 at 03:22 PM.
Is there an app that tracks wherever or not you actually read other people's threads? Perhaps some sort of tick box system or ability to add commentary to individual posts like in a google doc? People who read other work can then add notes up until the thread is 'closed', i.e submitted. There are plenty of ways to encourage community writing without adding currency or role playing elements to it.
Due to vested interest in this thread, i'm stepping out of any further discussions. But hopefully you guys get a lot done with this thread keep up the good work everyone so far.
I really did love the idea of the mentor thing. I feel like if we could retry that and it be successful we would get a lot more writing. For example, I don’t know how to do sparring threads properly and could really use help on my writing mechanics. I feel if more experienced writers reached out took one or two people under their wing we would se a surplus of more writing. Also people writing with different people, reach out do more open threads more people will get involved.
Also if someone goes over how to score a workshop with me and I understand it more I would be more then happy to bust out a bunch of reviews I read almost every thread that is posted here. I just don’t understand the expectations that are wanted from someone when writing a review.
Maybe if you didn't hide feedback behind a paywall people would be more inclined to seek it out. We had someone who was doing shit posts in the Workshop threads for AP so he could buy a boat. He even freely admitted to it, when it was painfully clear he wasn't following along with the threads in question and asked questions that could have been answered if he had read them. The quality of feedback is greatly diminished by such acts it makes the entire workshop principal a joke and not a particularly funny one at that.A well meaning question deserves a well meaning answer. Without wanting this to sound like something you post on youtube before blowing your brains out, I have thoughts. For those who don't want to hear the rants of an old man, scroll on.
What I want is what is good for Althanas. What is good for Althanas depends entirely on everyone's outlook and circumstances, so here is my "wish list":
1. The absolute abolition of auto-scoring 65 for workshops
I don't mind admitting publicly that I was the one who raised concerns in the staff forum about this, I don't mind admitting that I am sick to death of seeing empty workshop threads in the Writer's Workshop section and I don't care how many people jump on my back about it. I am absolutely adamant that in its current format of a hybrid writing workshop and roleplay site, Althanas is bleeding quality.
"But Shin, that's elitist, you pig. We're here to write and have fun, who are you to judge what quality is?" I hear you all screaming at your monitors.
I know I've come across as elitist before, and to anyone this offened I sincerely apologise, but I realised I never really properly explained myself. This is the problem. To understand where I am coing from, you need to understand my definition of quality. I'm talking not about someone getting a 75 on a thread instead of a 65, or getting a perfect score in mechanics, or pumping a JC out of their ass every day. I'm talking about participation. I'm talking people not wanting the feedback, not having the drive to improve and not utilising the resources we have gone to great lengths to design and upkeep properly. I'm talking about people submitting threads for a 65 because they know the EXP is better than a no judgment. I'm talking about some of those people being the benficiaries of six threads worth of those bonuses because their partners pay the AP. I'm talking about important Althanas tournaments barely having any entrants because people are afraid of being judged, leaving only the "good writers" (another phrase that pisses me off because that is creating a stereotype in itself; if you don't try you never get). I'm talking about people who want to make invincible characters who are going to end up very, very bland and boring.
"What does any of that have to do with the auto-scoring, you knob?" I hear you reply.
It's simple - It's a mentality. If we take away the auto-scoring, not only does it stop obvious gaming of the system but it actually forces people to get some sort of feedback. Not just a pile of shit "good job, well done" backslapping or "this is shit" shredding, but helpful, constructive feedback to actually help people, if they want it. You will all be AMAZED at how much of a difference it makes to your writing and confidence to get some nice comments, to get a "hey, that was fucking cool". That's what this site BADLY needs; and you can take that from a guy who was here before it and will be here long after it. It needs positivity flowing in both directions.
I'm not blind - I know to some people Althanas is a game, and to others a creative writing site, and to others both. We all have different wants and means. But, Althanas has an identity for a reason; it is THE reason why it has stuck around for 16, nearly 17 years whilst competing against the rise of the gaming industry. That reason is it had quality ideas, quality writing, quality gaming, quality staff, a quality community. It had people willing to help with writing, to take risks with writing. If the current leadership is happy with activity, posts, active members - which they should be - then that's fine, but when the identity changes from that evergreen, famous hybrid writing workshop to "just another RPG / hentai fanfic site", the castle is going to crumble.
This argument only feeds into my initial concern. Asking for more feedback encourages bad feedback, the kind of feedback that helps no one and forces the situation to degrade even further. Perhaps you should ask yourself what the system itself encourages because I've seen both kinds of abuse in there. As of right now? It only encourages abuse and spamming on both sides of the equation.2. If number one is impossible, then this:
More workshop feedback.
Seriously, guys. If we ARE going to maintain the status quo, then let's make a solid effort to give the people who submit there with good intentions some actual feedback. Dirks has wanted for some time a policy whereby one member of staff is required to post at least one piece of feedback on each workshop, whoever it is. Let's do it, me included. I have no valid excuse (other than time, but who has that anyway) to not do it either.
Also bitching about someone getting a free ride because others pay for them is not a problem on that person. Its more of a problem of other people always paying for them. If those people don't care then its just you being salty, and that's on YOU not on the system.
Last edited by TaintedBushido; 01-17-2018 at 04:16 PM.
Pav, I currently have the core link to the forum pointing to the activity stream. It is located at http://www.althanas.com/world/activity.php. Is this the type of activity feed you mean, or are you meaning a feed like on Facebook that would show sign ups, log ons, comments, etc?Well aware of this one, and it's something I intend to address eventually. The problem, per usual, is coding.I personally believe (Always have believed this) that information and knowledge is power. We have to (On our own initiative) SEARCH for lore and stuff like that. That needs to change, I know of a few instances in the past where newbies didn't jump in right away cause they were still "reading the lore". One of the major things that needs to get implemented is the new wiki whenever that gets done and good oversight on that as well.I believe the mentorship program will be brought back. As for staff contacts, I'll direct you here for now: www.althanas.com/world/showgroups.php. Do I need to make this page more prominent? My concern with putting our personal contact information out there is that in the past year I've had two admin quit (in part) due to the fact they were constantly being berated by requests to do Althanas related tasks on social media. One even did Althanas work on her wedding day. That's not kosher, so I'm firmly going to say no on personal contact information. PM us. I gave staffers bigger PM boxes for that reason!There is another suggestion I have which is to bring back the Mentorship program. Many of the other communities I am active on have said programs and they are successful. Mainly what I'm getting at is there needs to be MORE information and more easier ways to contact staff members (Not TROLLING or anything like that mind you) but to literally just contact like a dedicated set of threads for that purpose.Feel free to use the actual suggestion thread anytime you want, bud. That way it's written down and not lost to the eons in the chat room.Also, more feedback from staff and other members in general would be brilliant as well. We need to make the site more exciting for newcomers and where we're doing pretty good I think a lot more can be done!!! That's the ideas I have so far I'll add more as I come up with it.
In any event, good stuff.
This. Should I ever manage to finish the things I've got planned/started, I will be taking the no judgement route for each and every single thing, unless someone I wrote with wants to pay for it. Simply because I don't think there should be a cost for getting the feedback to improve writing on a site that is supposedly dedicated to improving writing.Maybe if you didn't hide feedback behind a paywall people would be more inclined to seek it out.
The whole AP system is kinda pointless IMO. The only thing to use it on really is judgements and the only way to get it is to write a vignette (the topic for which a person might not be all that interested in, and thus don't participate in it) or workshops (which someone may not feel inclined to do for whatever reasons). It might be worth it if there were more ways to earn it and more interesting ways to spend it. But as it stands right now? Nah.
Yes, I remember this, and typically we have a situation where in hundreds of posts of actual solid feedback you've cherrypicked the one guy who was abusing it. You're right about it, by the way, it was a joke. But the other 200+ posts of meaningful commentary by other people weren't. If we are going down that road, I could pick every single one of Amari's thirty smut thread submissions out and say "what's the point of the workshops when this shit is happening" but then I'm being disrespectful to those who actually tried to write and use the workshop for what it was intended.Maybe if you didn't hide feedback behind a paywall people would be more inclined to seek it out. We had someone who was doing shit posts in the Workshop threads for AP so he could buy a boat. He even freely admitted to it, when it was painfully clear he wasn't following along with the threads in question and asked questions that could have been answered if he had read them. The quality of feedback is greatly diminished by such acts it makes the entire workshop principal a joke and not a particularly funny one at that.
Well, better off if we just pack it in then and all go no-judgment instead.This argument only feeds into my initial concern. Asking for more feedback encourages bad feedback, the kind of feedback that helps no one and forces the situation to degrade even further.
Come on man, this is just a crock of shit. You get the odd person farming AP in the same way you get the authors farming EXP. Back on 3.1 when we had people who gave a shit, the majority of feedback was well done. Revenant, Flames of Hyperion (go and talk to him about feedback) Boris...the list goes on. But, oh wait? Where are they now? Not here. So the feedback has gone too. Shock horror. Now we're left with smut and turboposting with no feedback at all.
You've embarrassed yourself here Pat. I expected better from a guy like you.
Last edited by Shinsou Vaan Osiris; 01-17-2018 at 04:31 PM.
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