Power Group Discussion

[Zack Blaze]

For me the Ixian Knight's IC event that lead to their destruction was forced and contrived.

Excuse me? Could I have a link to that please?

Also, I feel as though Fred's comment, while most likely not malicious, kind of felt like an attack.

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

I will offer a full opinion shortly but i'd like to give you my abbreviated version.

Guilds / Clans should be:

1. Simple to run.

2. Fun to be a part of.

3. Free from millions of complex rules and rewards that require an advanced degree in management accounting to understand.

What is and isn't complex is open to interpretation, obviously, and that will need work. But (and with all the love in the world and with due respect to him for thinking it through, because he has) I just read Cards's suggestion above and by the time it got to Base Points I was already thinking "sorry, this is far too convoluted and people aren't going to care enough". Nothing against Cards at all because there are some interesting concepts there but I think that we can sometimes be guilty of not fully understanding the wants and needs of the member base.

I think the answer is we have to come up with something that appeals to the majority. I might be in a minority here but I believe the framework for clans should be fairly simple and easy to regulate, the rewards should be straightforward and appropriate and from there I think we'll see growth and activity.

However, I am a mere drop in the Althanian ocean and my opinion is exactly that.

[Elthas_Belthasar]

Sei you were in the event that I speak of. The one where what's his face blew up the castle. I don't have a link for it it should be in the wiki forum someplace. And that's just my opinion if you have a problem with it take it up with me off site.

[Zack Blaze]

Night of Debauchery wasn't what destroyed the Knights though, O.o;

[Ioder]

I've dissolved and deleted my failed PG.

[hoytti]

I honestly think that a guild should

1. Have no more than a dozen people
2. Be easish to manage
3. Have it's own base
4. Have specific goals for the future
5. Be cannon
6. Be fun

I will now go through each of the points above and explain

1. A guild should have no more than a dozen people

• A small group of people is easier to manage than a large one.
• It makes it easier for new guilds to form since they don't have huge guilds to compete with.

2. A guild should be easish to manage.

Note how I said easish instead of easy. There is a good reason for that. Managing a group of people is ALWAYS hard to do. So the guild should be made as easy as possible.

3. Have it's own base.

• Gives a place to meet IC
• Can represent a guilds power
• Shows what is a guilds focus

The second one is quite interesting. We could easily make it so that every guild starts out with a basic base that they have to actually build up. Whether they build it into a fortress or into a little town is up to the guild but it should reflect their standing on Althanas. A guild who focuses on gaining wealth might build a market place where a warmongering guild bight building a giant place of defense. But it should all cost special coins and a full judgment thread to get the upgrades required for the base.

4. Guild should have specific goals for the future

Goals are some of the most important parts of s guild. Without them there is no reason for the guild to exist. While goals may change over time, they should always be known by everyone in said guild.

5. Guilds should be cannon

Makes people feel like their actions actually has purpose

6. Guilds should be fun

I believe that I shouldn't have to remind you that this sight is meant for having fun and learning how to write. So that means that everyone should be having fun with the guilds as well.

[Cards of Fate]

I really like point number three Hoytti. Thats what I was going for with my plan of action.

[Itinerant]

Hoytti, if you're going to ask for full judgements to progress, then there are additional systems (AP) that need overhauling. It's currently prohibitively expensive for somebody to get one full judgment, much less several. (Note that, if we had 2 workshop threads per monyh, you can get, at most, 5 AP. But most people won't get 2 AP per rubric in their workshop contributions.) Thusly, a PG could only build their base at an abysmally slow rate unless they actively dedicated their entire population to building and collecting.

Othereise, all your points seem pretty great.

[hoytti]

Ah but that's just it, a base should be difficult to upgrade since each upgrade is pretty much a new building which can give you a new ability.

For example, a forge can be made which gives your guild members a discount on metal weapons and armor. Plus, it can generate gold/guild coins for the guild.

Another example would be building a wall around the guild. The wall makes it harder for opposing guilds to invade your base in a guild war. It could also attract NPCs as the wall can protect them. This means that they will automatically start building shops thus reducing the guild coins/gold needed for said shops as well as reducing lowering the full judgment to workshop.

Every ability is based around the buildings you build.

[Shinsou Vaan Osiris]

We do have a consensus that HQ's should be binned in their current format. I feel i'm going to have to weigh in here with a couple of technical points though.

Firstly, we have the issue of administration of this system if it were to be introduced. I'm going to put my neck on the block by saying this but these things all need manpower and resources to setup and run and i'm yet to be convinced that our current staffing level can support such a thing at the moment. Someone is going to have to convince me that putting Cards's and Hoytti's suggestion into practice will:

A) Be practical and easy to manage
B) Keep people interested in PG's

Currently I am opposed to it as it is on the basis we are completely overcomplicating things, in my opinion, and people will get bored. This is not for want of trying; if it works then great. But convince me (and, more importantly, Lye). Yes we need rewards and, yes, we need incentives but this is turning into Clash of Clans.

Secondly, I feel I have to defend the AP system here even though we are going wildly off topic. There are plentiful ways to earn AP for a full judgment. Two basic posts in workshops and a vignette could get you a full rubric and a condensed. There seems to be a culture of blaming the AP system for all our problems but I want to stamp this out right now: it has not stopped people from getting the feedback they want nor lowered the quality of writing. It is all down to individual motivation to write, end of. I find myself puzzled by this constant bickering about it and in order to keep the topic "on topic" I must insist we stay on track and focus on the PG element of the thread, please.